BPD stbxgf? She has diagnosis (is in denial) how to suggest she gets help?

[MikeLondon]

Hi , I have posted on the healing from wounds board, but I am wondering if there is a way I could suggest she gets help. I am thinking that if she does commit or at least accept the idea and takes some action there might be a chance to save the r/ship. What do you think? I feel I want to ask her about this, we haven't spoken for 4 weeks because of my leaving to visit my daughter and she raged and abused me on phone. We kind of became NC, but her mother called me( she has never done that). It seems like pwBPD was coaching her, claims of me leaving again and meeting women or friends who were against the relationship( all untrue). But no acceptance of her part, just the same old stuff.Any chance?

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[MikeLondon]

I am thinking that if she does commit or at least accept the idea and takes some action there might be a chance to save the r/ship.

Even if she doesn't accept the idea of help it means that I will have at least tried and she may well consider it at some point in the future. I love her but can't go on like this. I am prepared to risk the fallout from suggesting it. If she does that's great, it may not heal us but she might have a chance

[Meili]

None of us can really say how she would respond to your suggesting that she get help. Wasn't that suggested to her when she was diagnosed? if so, how did she respond then?

You may be able to save the relationship without her getting treatment, but therapy gives you the best chance for making it a sustainable, healthier one. Without her addressing her problem, it'll just be more of the same and you'll have to find new ways of dealing with everything.

[MikeLondon]

She was diagnosed but did not take it seriously, she has history of eating disorders too, also she was sober in AA for 10 years, alcohol free for 2 years now. She hates AA and blames it amongst other things and me, I have been sober for over 30 years, it got to the stage where I had to sneak to meetings because if I attended and told her she would launch into tirade about only needing her. So she knows about alcoholism, addiction and eating disorders, but is convinced that her problems are the fault of others. Either she believes they are fantastic and then they are worthless. I would be waiting to see how she would wake up, eggshells. So in respect of BPD she has never addressed it, although the last time I left ( on the end of a rage) I just found out some info on BPD. I thought naively that would be useful, so I shared it with her and eventually went back. I asked all along for us to have a degree of autonomy and independence in the relationship but she saw that as a total threat and would try for more control. In the beginning we were very open with each other and promised to try to grow together, admitting insecurities and acting with respect. Red flags very early but I did not know what I was dealing with. I couldn't understand how she could get the wrong meaning about things and took offense very easily when none was given. I found it really worrying, but thought it was just a communication problem. Very jealous and yet very bold with the opposite sex. Faithful but very much knew her power over men and played on it. Whereas if I spoke to a woman she would immediately call it an affair. She would also expect intimacy after a rage on me and while I was still shell shocked from the rage she would take it as further proof of my lack of love. She sees the world as full of oppression and problems and everybody has bad motives apart from her. She is chaotic and a workaholic and expected me to 'help ' in all ways but only her way. Any contradiction she would take as offense and silent treatment or more likely an argument followed by rage. I developed a coping mechanism by kind of validating but not agreeing that the person she was angry with was evil or bad, they were mostly very nice or the best in her opinion , but rapidly became the most terrible ' selfish ' people. Selfish was a word she fired about very easily. I ran out of room. I couldn't go back unless or until she was positively seeking help. I couldn't manage to live with this as a pwBPD in denial. My world shrank to only what concerned her or the relationship. If an hour or half an hour late all hell would break loose. Very scarey.  Would it make any sense in a letter to clarify my position that I told her about potential BPD help. Not as an ultimatum from me, but to make sure she has the information at least. I would feel that I left her with something that she might consider in the future. I love her, but cannot face it all again. Still feeling somewhat responsible for her ... .even though irrationally somehow. When we got together I had known her for a year or two as a friend, when I was going through a divorce she showed me great kindness and understanding and actually made the first move on me, which of course I felt very grateful for some attention from this charming, understanding attractive woman. So here I am 4 weeks out and hoping she is ok. But confused as to my next move. I did email her a few days ago as her Mother who did not like me phoned and said how upset her daughter is. So I felt bad and really all her Mother did was repeat verbatim what her daughter had claimed, she was upset cos I left and thinks I am running about with women( totally wrong). Yet she had nothing to say about the rage and reason I stayed out of touch. I left to visit my daughter for a couple of days, I didn't tell her face to face as a blow up would have ensued. I received a very abusive call that day 4 weeks ago, screaming and telling me to come back, then threatening to smash my flat up. So I just didn't go back. I emailed the other day and said I would send a more in depth email and maybe we would speak. I did mention that I was shocked by her threats and that I cared for her but was not ready to speak. I have had no reply and certainly no apology(none expected). So what next? I have read about FOG and how true that feels. When we recycled last time, she made a very small reference to her rage, but then said it is because I left, whereas it is the rage and control that makes me run. Am I obligated to contact her? What do you think of an email stating what I want, autonomy, trust and love. She is a great woman at times, but those times don't seem worth the amount of anxiety and fear it engenders in me. It is like talking to the wall if I suggest anything that I might need. She believes that her rage and anger and abusive language towards me is her right of expression and when I have asked for a more reasonable dialogue she tells me I am being contolling. As I write this I cannot envisage or think about being back there without a pit forming in my stomach and anxiety at the thought of more of the same.

[Meili]

I'm really sorry that you are having to go through all of that. Much of what you wrote about is very familiar to me (and I'm sure most of us), so you are not alone in what you are dealing with for whatever that's worth.

It can be really difficult to know what to do in these situations in that most of it is counter-intuitive. I would advise against making any direct suggestion that she get help for BPD. Shame is a major trigger, and the suggestion will likely just cause her to feel shame. Because it is so difficult for her to deal with that emotion, she'll likely project and rage. You'll be the one with the problem, not her.

You're under no obligation to contact her, and probably shouldn't until you're ready to do so. If you do, you may be setting yourself up for trouble. Take some time to center yourself first.

Autonomy is something that you can have by establishing and enforcing boundaries. You should not expect her to voluntarily give that to you.

Trust is going to be hard. pwBPD have extreme difficulty trusting. It can be created over time with consistency in words and actions though. I wouldn't expect it anytime soon though.

All of this generally takes a lot of hard work for the non because we have learn how to deal with the pwBPD differently than we would anyone else. Is it worth you? That's a question that you'll have to decide for yourself.

[Skip]

... .we haven't spoken for 4 weeks because of my leaving to visit my daughter and she raged and abused me on phone. We kind of became NC, but her mother called me( she has never done that). It seems like pwBPD was coaching her, claims of me leaving again and meeting women or friends who were against the relationship( all untrue). But no acceptance of her part, just the same old stuff. Any chance?

Are you suggesting, "I'm not coming back unless you get treatment for BPD"?

I would advise against making any direct suggestion that she get help for BPD. Shame is a major trigger... .

Agree. This say to her (and yourself) that she is the cause of all problems... .

I think an approach like we are both doing things that are causing problems and this is not going to work unless we are both will to change... .I'm willing to commit to that. Are you?

You have to work into this and also realize that you will need to find what truly motivates her to start working on herself - and them reinforce that.

Have you read this? Looked at the video? It's really good.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

[MikeLondon]

Hi Skip thanks for this.
I am not saying that unless she gets treatment for BPD I am not coming back. That was a thought I had in case I didn't go back and that it might be useful to her in the future. If making an approach your  suggestion of
 we are both doing things that are causing problems and this is not going to work unless we are both will to change... .I'm willing to commit to that. Are you?


I do know that I couldn't go back unless there was some acceptance or this. I want to be able to have a life that doesn't consist of rage , jealousy and control. I love her, but don't think she will go for the suggestion. It is all my fault she says. The only things that I want are to be able to have a degree of autonomy, and see friends without a major meltdown happening, I have tried reassuring her, but it doesn't take away from her the feeling that I don't love her enough and if I love her why do I need other people, almost impossible. The rage and abuse is something I find really hard to take. My world has shrunk and I walked on eggshells every day. She is caring and loving but so insecure and needs to control my very thoughts at times.
However I think I would like to explore that option or suggestion, it has got to be worth one last attempt. I don't expect it all to change in a week, but it was so hard to get out that I am afraid of causing her and me more pain, because I know that it wouldn't take many more rages for me to have to leave for good. So, would it be better for her if I just left it alone and end the relationship formally? (very difficult for me too)
I don't want to go back into a hopeless situation, thereby causing and prolonging her and my pain. But I am so torn with this, that I want to reach out and just tentatively see if she would be up for the conversation. I know I would have to learn some of the skills on offer here, but don't know if I am up to it, or have enough stamina left to try.

[MikeLondon]

I did contact BPD gf in the manner suggested Skip and so far no reply. I felt so much better for doing that. Told her I love her, no mention of treatment, but definitely along the lines of both needing to make changes and that I am willing and is she? I do not expect a reply really as she has not really accepted her part in any of our difficulties. I don't know if there is anything I can do other than wait for a reply, I only emailed her on Friday. I will see what happens over the next week. I do not think I want to attempt to reconcile or go back in there without any willingness on her part. What do you think?
Thank you all