Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 19, 2024, 02:00:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
204
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Introduction - 24-year marriage coming to an end  (Read 1281 times)
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« on: November 18, 2016, 10:50:31 AM »

Hello, let's see how small of a nutshell I can put my intro into ... .

Married 24+ years to high-functioning BPD wife (she is diagnosed, but does not acknowledge diagnosis nor has been willing to or capable of working on it). Two kids, both boys, one in college (away from home) and one in high school (still at home). All of us well-versed with our dysfunctional family dynamic, and over the years we've developed coping mechanisms (some healthy, some not) to manage as best we could.

Most recently, my wife has increasingly detached herself from the family. Not uncommon during an argument for her to say "I am DONE," and about a month ago she said "I think I need a divorce from this family," to which I lost my temper and said, "then DO it, don't just keep saying you will and then not doing it. You're either in this, or you're not ... ."

Then things cooled off and that argument blew over, but it had really struck a nerve with me, and my ability to tolerate her  BPD behaviors was really wearing thin. For the first time, I was seriously considering whether to continue in the marriage.

Then earlier this week, she said "we need to talk" (which she never says, as we are REALLY good at NOT talking about things, because most of the time if we do, and if ANY amount of blame seems to be pointing in her direction, she shuts down / says she's "done" / removes herself) and basically brought up the elephant that has been in the room for a while - she's been unhappy for a while, I've been giving her her distance but I deserve more than that, she thinks she needs time away ... .she hadn't known what to do, but had a friend who encouraged her to talk to me because I might have been feeling the same way, and guess what, I was. The discussion was uncannily calm and reasonable - at that moment, my wife was the best possible version of herself. And I admitted that I'd been thinking about it a lot too. I asked whether she was saying we should try and work things out, but she said we both know we've tried that before and nothing has worked. Then, before we really finished talking about it, she left the room to do something routine (but it did feel like an avoidance mechanism), and I followed her shortly thereafter, and we had a big hug with big sobbing tears, apologies, etc...

Since then there was one calm day with almost no interaction between us, then yesterday we talked in the morning and filed for Divorce at the courthouse in the afternoon - we did that together (which begins a mandatory 60-day waiting period before the Divorce can be finalized). More tears on both sides, everything extremely amicable, but she chose to stay with a friend (female former co-worker) last night.

Today she is quite upset (emotionally sad), and telling me that I seem very strong and calm, even "relieved," asking in a couple of different ways whether I have someone in mind for a post-marriage relationship (I don't). She even casually threw out a comment to the effect of "and maybe it won't happen" (i.e. maybe we won't go through with the divorce) which caught me off guard, and I probably wasn't very graceful discussing that. Sounds like emotionally she is earlier in the process than I am, that even though she's thrown out leaving as a threat more times than I can count over the years, that now that it's really happening, she's feeling the full impact of what it means.

So far things are very very amicable. She says she "doesn't want anything" but I want to be very fair and equitable. Since she was so freaked out this morning, I told her that I'll hold off talking to a lawyer for now so that we at least have the weekend to talk some more.

Her BPD monster hasn't reared its head yet (at least not in my direction) but I know that the roller coaster ride has only just begun.
Logged
fromheeltoheal
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up, I left her
Posts: 5642


« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2016, 02:17:39 PM »

Hi MovingOn23-

And welcome!  I'm sorry you're in the middle of that, 24+ years and two children is a full life, painful and confusing to go through a divorce, especially when your wife is a diagnosed borderline.  The good news is you found us, and there are many people here in similar situations, you're not alone and we understand.

You're in the thick of it right now, and it's helpful to read the information on this site and other posts, and talk, just talking in itself is cathartic, plus you can connect with other folks in your situation or similar, which can help you stay grounded as you walk this path.  Again welcome, and we look forward to supporting you in this transition.
Logged
Lucky Jim
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 6211


« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2016, 02:36:32 PM »

Hey MovingOn, Welcome!  Many of us have been in your shoes.  In your post, you refer a lot to your W and what she wants -- she's the one who said "we need to talk," right?  The question I have for you is: What would YOU like to see happen?  What is the right path for YOU?  These are hard questions, I know, but might help you to focus your mind on the task ahead.  Fill us in, when you can.

LuckyJim
Logged

    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2016, 03:12:20 PM »

The question I have for you is: What would YOU like to see happen?  What is the right path for YOU?  These are hard questions, I know, but might help you to focus your mind on the task ahead.  Fill us in, when you can.

Hi LuckyJim (guess I need to figure out how to update my display name). My gut is telling me that now that door has been opened to head straight through it and don't look back. Things are calm and low drama now, but it's only a matter of time before I'll be reminded of the toxicity that I'm ready to be done with. Admittedly, I've gotten lazy in the relationship, so ending it is scary because when I do get to the point of new relationships someday, it's going to take a whole different kind of investment on my part. In fact, the degree of emotional detachment that has been the norm for me and my wife for a while has been easy on some levels, and if I someday pursue what I think will be a far more emotionally connected and fulfilling relationship someday, it's going to require a higher level of reciprocal investment from me.

My heart is still doing a bit of 2nd guessing - could we save the marriage? But it's not like I haven't been over this again and again and again and again in my head - how could we make it work? How would it work to end it? At the end of every scenario that I play out, we end up right back where we are. As I may have said before, I have almost no confidence that my wife would begin and work through the kind of therapy that would be required to set the stage for the long-term success of our marriage.

As you can expect, I've had my frustrating times with the marriage and my wife off and on over the years, but I think it was the repeated instances of emotional blackmail that wore me down to the point that I was considering calling it quits. I'm a conflict avoider, so I've found ways to try and "keep the peace" over the years. In some ways, I'm glad we held it together as long as we did, but in more ways, I think it would have been better for everyone involved if we'd come to this conclusion a long time ago.

I really have loved her, or maybe was in love with saving her from a f*d up childhood, or in love with the idea of making it succeed against any rational prediction, or in love with the idea of being the first person she has ever been able to always count on being there for her - but I feel like I really do love her. Conversely, it took me a long time to realize that she doesn't emotionally connect in relationships the same way a non-BPD would - that I'm not really her "everything," that she may never feel that way about anyone ... .

Logged
Lucky Jim
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 6211


« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2016, 04:05:11 PM »


Hey MovingOn23,  OK, sounds like you are in touch w/your gut feelings, which is a good sign.

Excerpt
In some ways, I'm glad we held it together as long as we did, but in more ways, I think it would have been better for everyone involved if we'd come to this conclusion a long time ago.

Many of us stayed longer than was healthy, so you are not alone, believe me.

Keep us posted as things unfold in the coming days.

LuckyJim



Logged

    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2016, 08:19:11 PM »

A very "normal" weekend day at home today with son and wife. Actually a really good day, which sucks, because it aligns me with the better parts of our past, rather than reinforcing the reasons we are breaking up. Haven't told the kids about the divorce plans yet, that will be later this week when our son comes home from college and we can tell both kids in person at the same time.

BPD wife is still very subdued and caring, but when discussing the divorce proceedings we are only skimming the surface rather than beginning any of the work we have to undertake to draft and eventually finalize an agreement.
Logged
Sluggo
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced 4 yrs/ separated 6 / Married 18 yrs
Posts: 596



« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2016, 11:31:53 PM »

Excerpt
very "normal" weekend day at home today

Yes it is those calm days that seem to usually come just at the right time to make me second and third guess. 

It sometimes feels like in an ocean between the giant waves.  I would be so relieved things were calm I did not want to do anything to rock the boat again.  But as always another wave would be coming and I would hold my breath as long as I could until the 'wave' passed.  For me, I think my wife knew how long I could stay 'under her wave of water' without drowning and pull me up just in time.    And over the 18 years, it felt like I just could not hold my breath anymore. 

Logged
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2016, 01:55:23 PM »

DAY 7

ANGRY. Really wound up. I'm sure this is part of the roller coaster - the stages of mourning that will be visiting me, whether I like it or not, like the ghosts in A Christmas Carol.

Feeling betrayed and deceived - like she never was the person I thought she was.
(More accurately, she is probably not the person I’ve wanted her to be)
Kicking myself that I’ve been really kind to her, telling her even since we started the breakup how much I’ve loved her, all of the things I’ve loved about her, how she’s been my everything.

And while I read articles about getting through this, I find that she’s mostly just been searching places to live.

SO HARD to keep reminding myself how empty she is inside.

Not like she isn't upset or doesn't get emotional - she does, but I'm not sure it's because she's leaving me.

We've FINALLY talked more about her feelings about the breakup (remember, she and I rarely have been able to discuss anything of substance), and yesterday after the lawyer, she goes back to saying it feels like I'm rushing the process, that it's all moving so fast, but later in the conversation makes it obvious that she considers us separated and open to seeing other people - but we've told almost no one, we are still sleeping in the same bed, we haven't set any "rules" like whether we agree to let the other know if we aren't coming home on a given night ... .

Let's face it - she is just buying time until she figures out how to move out - and after that, she's just buying more time to sort out her financial independence. Which leaves me wondering how long has she been perpetuating the "marriage" just because she didn't see any way out.

I NEED to take the high road and not get sucked into a black hole of blame and regret and hate and resentment - maybe I need a way to visit that place in some limited way - but I am LIVID LIVID LIVID LIVID. I'll be damned - I have enabled this for over 25 years. I've been chasing a mirage for over 25 years. I ignored the obvious red flags, and missed so many less obvious ones. WTF? I'm supposed to be a smart person - I'm NOT this stupid - but apparently I am.

And I'll soon be marketing a 50+ year old guy who can't make babies and sleeps with a retainers and a CPAP - a guy who may not be in a position financially to to take a date out to nice restaurants or to a nice hotel - a guy who's introverted and less-than-comfortable getting out into unfamiliar social situations - a guy with no biceps, no 6-pack … At least I still have a full head of hair that isn't gray, I don't have a hairy back, I'm not short, and I don't need a prescription to get it up.

This in-between time - mostly because the house hasn't sold - is the worst. That will be a definitive event that will result in our moving into separate residences.

And I still have to work, make sure dinner happens every night, and answer every ___ing person I pass in the hallway that asks "how are you" with a ___ing "great, thanks for asking" bull___ before going back to clenching my teeth.
Logged
Dutched
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 494


« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 05:48:09 PM »

MovingOn23

Reading your post reminded me of my own 30+ yrs. and it is certainly an emotional rollercoaster.
That will take a lot of effort to stop it and even longer to step out of it.
There is unbelief, sorrow, guilt, angriness but also the deep attachment.
To be blunt. Now it is time to think rationally, to take care of your future as too many will be gone soon.

So high road or not, it doesn’t matter now.
= get to the legal section of the board, read, read and ask questions.
= start journaling all events hat take place, incl date and time!
= get all your legal documents, store them in a save place.
= watch your finances, may open a second account on your name only
= change passwords etc.
= family belongings, store them somewhere
= take pictures of the inside of your house as evidence.
= instruct your lawyer, tell him about BPD and high conflict divorces, about feelings and facts.
As they don’t know, they will likely go for an easy standard procedure.   
   
As far as the emotional interaction.
= for pwBPD feelings becomes facts! Therefore your evidence based on facts.
= remind yourself that once the procedure in progress, stbex won’t be recognisable…  she needs to survive and will act accordingly!
= don’t let her seduce you with her demands, stick to your interests. It is your future now!

As you already mentioned, she is buying time…
Sleeps though still in your bed… why?(similar exw that found it 'of course'... .I told her to get out of my bed).

Told exw: you stop? you want a divorce? Then you get out of the house!

You take care of dinner / household? What is she contributing? Agree something.
In the meanwhile, how is the income split, are costs for clothes, cell phones, etc. agreed? Agree something.
I don’t tell you this to create upheaval, I tell you this to state your boundaries, to take care of you!

And you are certainly not stupid! You knew, didn’t had the tools, tried to handle it, wanted it to work, tried as best you could, was holding on your vow.
But… with age an untreated (my experience and more on this board with a very long r/s) it got worse.

Hang in there and post and ask.   
Logged

For years someone I loved once gave me boxes full of darkness.
It made me sad, it made me cry.
It took me long to understand that these were the most wonderful gifts.
It was all she had to give
c_craig_k

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 15


« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2016, 06:38:35 PM »

Excerpt
I NEED to take the high road and not get sucked into a black hole of blame and regret and hate and resentment - maybe I need a way to visit that place in some limited way - but I am LIVID LIVID LIVID LIVID. I'll be damned - I have enabled this for over 25 years. I've been chasing a mirage for over 25 years. I ignored the obvious red flags, and missed so many less obvious ones. WTF? I'm supposed to be a smart person - I'm NOT this stupid - but apparently I am.

17 yrs here. 10 married. Two kids. I'm just starting the process, so I'm no guru. You aren't alone. There were red flags, but be kind to yourself. They give you so many conflicting messages that keep you off balance.
Logged
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2016, 01:53:31 PM »

Thanks for the advice!

So far things are very very amicable. I'll be posting some other journal entries just to share some of the roller coaster ride. I think in some ways she is relieved and looking forward to giving things a go on her own for the first time ever. Being so amicable, though, really generates so many conflicting emotions.
Logged
Dutched
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 494


« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2016, 02:17:18 PM »

Thanks for the advice!

So far things are very very amicable. I'll be posting some other journal entries just to share some of the roller coaster ride. I think in some ways she is relieved and looking forward to giving things a go on her own for the first time ever. Being so amicable, though, really generates so many conflicting emotions.

Yes, I know, it is conflicting.  Seen also that amicable behaviour. And once gone be prepared that you are needed… to help, to solve, for the sake of old days…   
Logged

For years someone I loved once gave me boxes full of darkness.
It made me sad, it made me cry.
It took me long to understand that these were the most wonderful gifts.
It was all she had to give
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2016, 10:44:44 AM »

DAY 21

And then she shows you the floor plan of the apartment she thinks she's going to rent when she moves out - and it squeezes the life out of your heart because you're happy for her and so alone and everything was ok earlier today and all of a sudden it's totally f*cked again. And she wants to know what you think but you know that you really don't have any business weighing in on her future without you - and she doesn't fully get that because she's not a whole person but you fooled yourself into thinking you had so much more together.

Losing what you never really had shouldn't hurt as much as this.

And I worry for her safety living alone, and I worry that she won't eat or won't be able to pay her bills - but I'm supposed to not worry about her any more. And she seems kind of excited and that sucks, because maybe that's how she should have lived when she was 19 rather than marrying me. And f*ck, I forgot to make it look to her like I don't care so I don't come across like a needy wimp who is still affected by her.
Logged
c_craig_k

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 15


« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2016, 11:26:50 AM »

Being so amicable, though, really generates so many conflicting emotions.

I feel for 'ya, brother. I've learned not to take the bait and fight, or react to the subtle provocations and insults, but the friendliness is the toughest to manage.

The image I've used is that these moments are an invitation from my exBPD. I imagine her pulling out a chair and offering me something to drink. And then I remember that at some point she will not only push the chair back in, she will accuse me of being manipulative and violating her boundaries for wanting to take the seat that was previously offered with such openness.
Logged
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2017, 04:52:15 PM »

Last week I went out of town on a trip that had been planned months ago - a birthday celebration, meeting relatives and siblings and their significant others out of state in a major city for some fun. Originally wife would have attended with me, but that all changed when we separated.

Apparently this was a MAJOR trigger - me traveling, her feeling very left out, me having fun, her not having visibility into what kind of fun I was having. The texts began with her encouraging me to be comfortable sharing things about my trip on social media, then having issues with me not being responsive (I was busy, traveling, visiting relatives, participating in activities).

Next there were texts telling me to have fun, how I'm a "new man," how I should enjoy myself.
Then how she suddenly is thinking that she has made a terrible mistake, how she has "screwed up"
Then frikkin 3 solid days of flipping between "I will let you go because that's what you want" and "I thought this was only a separation" - she was a total mess, but didn't want me worrying about her. Wouldn't talk to any friends or a counselor, because there's "nothing to talk about."

All of a sudden, it's ME who had one foot out the door, who she believes decided a long time ago that it was over (really?). This, from the woman who already moved out into her own apartment - who had told me multiple times that I'm free to see and even sleep with other people!

Again and again, she cast the line of "divorce is what you want, right?" just waiting for me to take the bait and be the bad guy. Now she says she wants to work on it - that she wants to try to see if we can take apart what we had and put it back together into something that is fulfilling for both of us.

I keep reminding her that for things to change, it will require change from BOTH of us. I keep reminding her that the goal of marriage counseling is not to keep the couple together, but rather to guide the people to discover what they really want their path to be.

She says she wants to try, but after 2 sessions, I have only seen her point out faults in my behavior / inadequacies in my personality. This sucks, but I think it's too early to in good conscience write off the process. I think I need a clearer indication from her and the counselor that it's going to go nowhere. Please tell me that won't be long.

In the meantime, she keeps me jumping through hoops, confirming that I really am willing to try, and that I'm not only doing this to appease her. I keep telling her that if SHE really is going to give it her all, then I'm willing to do that with her - but that even both of us giving it our all may only result in going our separate ways after all.

:-P
Logged
Lucky Jim
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 6211


« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2017, 05:04:20 PM »

Hey MO23, I wonder what she means by "giving it her all"?  What would that look like?  What would be different?  It's hard to make progress in the BPD swamp!  LJ
Logged

    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
Stolen
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 207


« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2017, 05:59:21 PM »

DAY 21


Losing what you never really had shouldn't hurt as much as this.


I think I will engrave this in stone.  So true.
Logged
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2017, 02:42:02 PM »

Hey MO23, I wonder what she means by "giving it her all"?  What would that look like?  What would be different?  It's hard to make progress in the BPD swamp!  LJ

Well, first she'd have to admit she has behavioral issues that she needs to work on. Then, she'd have to actually work on them. I have little faith that either will happen.

I'm working with my individual counselor on better managing my boundaries - I have a feeling that as I manage my boundaries with her better, that she will be more and more frustrated, and less and less interested in pursuing a relationship with me.
Logged
ACObound
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: married
Posts: 61


« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2017, 05:33:01 PM »

I hear you and feel your pain.  36 years here and was served the other day.  Which surprised me in a way, that an actual decision was made.   Spent alot of time on the Conflict and Deciding side. 
Thanks for sharing your experience.  Very similar to mine and I already feeling alot of the same. 
I understand your frustration on the couples counseling.  First counselor 2 years ago lasted 4 sessions.  This counselor(a great one) lasted 8.  Hardest thing to remind oneself and never got through to my uBPD, he is not treating either one, he is treating the relationship.  the relationship is the patient. 
Both times, uBPD cut stopped.

I am sure I will keep some posting... .right now... .I need to get on a bicycle, my salvation,

I know it is going to be a roller coaster of thoughts similar to what you have posted.  I will change my mind, question myself, get sucked in and out of the vortex alot in the months ahead... .right now I'm determined and

I'm Movin On

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz1N8W8phec
Logged
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2017, 04:40:20 PM »

2 months later - 4 months since initial separation conversation / 2 months since we began couples counseling. Progress has mostly been positive, with only a couple of backward steps along the way. What has changed?

My BPD wife hasn't yet acknowledged BPD, but has acknowledged and is working on controlling behaviors. She has been more easygoing and more ready to "go with the flow" and enjoy, rather than criticize, a situation. There have definitely been numerous examples of situations that would have escalated to an ugly, toxic level in the past that just plain didn't.

I have identified, acknowledged, and I'm working on communicating more directly - not beating around the bush, sugar-coating, or watering down what it is I'm really trying to get across (which is what I would have done before - I would have worried about what she would think / how she would react and tried to make my communication as palatable as possible for her.

What is still standing in our way? We are, of course LOL! I am going to need her to own her part of our problems - acknowledge them and work to address them. For me, that's currently a major missing component.

We have been dating and really enjoying each other's company in that context. We are also consistently being physically intimate WAY more often than before.

We did experiment last week with her coming over to live at the house for several days while my college-age son was home for spring break - this was a suggestion from our counselor to see how we did and whether we could put our new communications skills into practice when there were more stresses around than when we date. There were a couple of rough spots over the course of a couple of days, which I quickly internalized and projected our 25 years of problems onto. I told her I wanted to move forward with the divorce - but through the sh**storm that ensued over the next 12-24 hours, I did realize that I was the one who didn't communicate this time around - didn't express my concerns at what was going wrong or how I was feeling.

Right now we are still on the counseling path - both in couples counseling, and both in individual counseling as well. We'll see where it goes and whether we are recycling the relationship or actually making progress.

If there's anything that I find to be a revelation from all of this it is to what extent my behavior is contributing to what is wrong with our relationship. Without a doubt, she has her issues - but what I've been doing or not doing to try and manage her reactions are definitely part of what is wrong with the way things have been.

Oh, and just to keep things interesting, we now have an offer on our house, so about a month from now, neither of us will live there any more, and we will truly be living separately (i.e. I won't be living somewhere she used to live together with me, somewhere she still has keys to, somewhere that she hasn't yet moved out all of her belongings).

I don't remember if I started another thread in the "undecided" or "working on it" forum, but I'm going to try and cross-post there too.
Logged
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2017, 08:34:10 AM »

Less than 2 weeks since last post where we'd recycled or I'd been charmed ... .

Since I had to find a place to live soon (our house has sold and I have to be out in less than a month) I looked into various living options and ended up renting a small house. Told the separated BPDw (remember, she's been in her own apartment since she moved out at the end of Dec) about it and she went into major dysregulation. All this happened while she was out of town on a business trip, so phone and text. Right back into circular arguments, her playing the victim, me attempting validation (badly and when I shouldn't have), and ending up with both of us upset and feeling horrible about the state of the relationship.

I have to leave this marriage, I have to tell her, and I have to stay the course no matter what. She arrives back in town tomorrow morning.

Upcoming weeks are going to be brutal. There's still a whole house to pack, and still quite a bit of her stuff there that she will need to deal with as well.
Logged
Sluggo
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced 4 yrs/ separated 6 / Married 18 yrs
Posts: 596



« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2017, 06:30:29 PM »

Moving on 23,

I would stick to your gut and not let that feeling get swayed. 
Logged
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2017, 02:29:25 PM »

After late night text "rants" from the BPDw, woke up to this text: [6:46 am] Sorry about everything I sent you - I think I would be better off putting it somewhere that I can reflect on it and not just start throwing my thoughts/feelings at you - so I'm sorry!"

I replied: "I'm still feeling pretty overwhelmed by last night's call and these new texts that I just read (because I did make myself go to bed last night). I'm not feeling up to another call just yet, and not going to try and solve anything via text either. I am not mad at you, I just need quiet time this morning."

Her: "Ok. I love you and you can have all day and even tomorrow if you want it. I will just need to know at some point how I'm getting picked up from the airport."

Me: "I will talk to you before the end of the day, and of course you'll be picked up at the airport."

Later that day had an individual session with my therapist, who let me know that, when dealing with borderline communication (dysregulated communication), that attempts to validate may be somewhat futile. More therapist advice:
     - Don't normalize behavior by supporting it
     - Respond to dysregulated communication by stating actions, 5 words or less. Repeat as needed.
       examples:
           "you're right. things have changed."
           "see you at baggage claim."

The next morning (Friday), talked on the phone with my wife while on the way in to work, kept it strictly to day-to-day topics. She asked whether I wanted to talk more, reminding me that I said we should talk every day, and I said no, I didn't want to. Later she texted that she was on her way to the airport to see if she could catch a standby flight.

Later, texted:
her: Do you wanna go to [city within driving distance from me that a potential standby flight would connect through] and get a hotel tonight?

me: No I'd rather not.

her: Ok that works.
her: That was a clear response btw

Called lawyer, scheduled appointment for next Tuesday morning.

She successfully got an earlier flight home from her work trip - she felt how rough a week it had been, we had had some difficult conversations about me renting a house, where the separation was headed, where my head was at, her feeling left out - a lot of dysregulation (her) and some erratic text rants and circular argument conversations (even though she had ended up saying she shouldn't have texted what she did and that she was sorry - but what had been said was already said).

By the time she was on her way back, I was in a "strictly business" mode with her, taking care of whatever business needed to be taken care of. It was the only way to eliminate the drama.

Earlier in the week, I had decided that all of the indecision about the relationship was really making me feel quite ill inside. That deep down inside, I knew what the answer ultimately needs to be for me (i.e. for me to leave the marriage), and that it felt like the harder I worked to justify the opposite outcome, the more miserable I became.

Her flight arrived late Friday evening. I met her at the airport. I was quiet on the drive home - so quiet that she asked me if there was anything I needed to say to her. I told her that I knew what I needed to do for me, and that what I need is to leave the marriage. She said that she had changed her flight to get home because she could sense that something was wrong and that I was shutting down (again, like 2 weeks ago). She felt like I didn't even give her a chance to get back and for us to re-connect following the difficult week. I repeated my feelings and my decision.

We pulled into the driveway, I got out, she came around and got in the drivers seat and closed the door, then said something about me not even hugging her or something - then yelled something at me, like "thanks for everything" as she sped off.

Then (predictably), ranty texts began, and after receiving a few, I texted that I was going to sleep and turning off my phone until morning. Then she began texting my teenage son (who still lives at home) instead, then she came back to the house (had informed my son, who says he told me, but I don't remember because I was asleep). Entered our/my bedroom (startled me), said she just wanted to lay with me - I said ok. Wanted to make love, I said no. Wanted to kiss, I stopped her. "You are literally pushing me away." Stormed off, drove away again.

Later returned again, said she was going to leave the car at the house because she apparently cannot afford it, she said she was going to wait at the house until daylight when someone could come pick her up. I told her that I am not leaving her without a vehicle - if she cannot afford the one she's been driving, then she can instead use one that is already paid off.

"I thought we were doing better" "we had made plans to see Beauty and the Beast once I got back," getting out, looking at, holding wedding ring, digging out marriage certificate and wedding photo album to take because I apparently don't care about them the way she does. Saying I want her out of my life, that I want nothing to do with her (I told her that is not what I'm saying, but only that I feel I cannot continue in the marriage). Eventually I got her to lay down to try and sleep a little.

Next morning she was still angry and acting erratic. Opened bottle of champagne, drinking from bottle, offering some to me (we aren't big drinkers, this was unusual behavior). Looking at different areas of the house and all the stuff we have to go through, sobbing, saying "why did you have to do this now with everything else going on," overwhelmed, saying she can't handle it. (this is the condensed version). Eventually asked whether I would at least wait until we finish moving out of the house.

I said I would think about it, that I DON'T want to talk about the relationship, I DON'T want discussions convincing me one way or the other, I DON'T want anyone telling me I shouldn't feel the way that I do. I want to be left to be myself and not be analyzed or criticized or railroaded into only one option.

How do I feel? More confident and calm than last time, more firm in my decision (less confusion than before, though admittedly some confusion re-introduced this weekend). I will keep moving the nuts and bolts of dividing our lives forward (transfer cell phone bill away from her, division of "stuff" even if only into separate boxes to move to the house, etc.).
Logged
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2017, 02:36:57 PM »

She stayed at the house the rest of the weekend and we began the work of sorting through packing up the house and getting stuff done. The tsunami passed and she was noticeably on her "best behavior" the rest of the weekend, not on my case about the relationship, letting things just be as they are (not nitpicky, critical, not expecting me to read her mind, not sarcastic)... .if only it could be like that all the time.

She talked for a while with an out-of-town best friend who has experience with marriage separation (she and her husband reconciled after a year, and are still married today). Same friend called me afterward, said that my wife doesn't understand what is wrong, that I'm not being specific about my reasons for wanting out of the marriage. I said that I felt my feelings should be an important reason enough - I don't really want to make it only about her, but more about the relationship dynamic and my feeling that it is not going to change - that the ongoing act of trying to rationalize or fix the relationship is making me feel worse, not better. The friend's opinion is that I do need to spell it out (she may have a point) even if the criticism is about specific behaviors of my wife. Also potentially a component of my willingness to not "do the work" required to change things, or an inability for me to forget the past (however justified I feel like I am in not forgetting it). There are probably some things I should say along these lines in a very direct, blunt way that would be more firm. Sometimes I don't do things like that because I feel like I'm just putting objections out there to inevitably invite someone to then work even harder to overcome my objections.

That evening my wife and I left the house together to get dinner, and went to see Beauty and the Beast. Yes, I'm not kidding. Went home afterward and she spent the night again. Spent next day going through things (again, preparing for upcoming move), getting house ready for inspection. Overall getting along great again for now (though that's the cycle, right?). Still 2-3 weeks of packing and moving the house ahead (much of which requires her involvement).
Logged
Sadly
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Very Single
Posts: 886



« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2017, 02:45:31 PM »

You are doing so well, so very well, you sound very strong, determined and positive. Hope all continues as calmly as it can.
Love from
Sadly x
Logged

Never let someone be your priority whilst you remain their option
Sluggo
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced 4 yrs/ separated 6 / Married 18 yrs
Posts: 596



« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2017, 09:51:38 PM »

Movingon23,

I know it is hard what you are doing especially when the cycle is in a good phase.   There came a point for me, and it sounds like you too, no matter how good that good phase is you know that it will turn pretty quickly. 

I always compared it to waves in an ocean.  The time between the waves were the good times, but after a while I knew those waves would be coming and as years in marriage went by the waves started arriving quicker and quicker between the 'calm' times.   
Logged
michel71
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 535


« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2017, 11:12:12 PM »

Wow MOVING ON... .wow... .
I was so engrossed in your post. Since I am kinda where you are at, minus the selling of the house (its MINE and I am going nowhere), I can't offer up any advice except to say you sound really brave and strong. I keep searching for my cajones on a daily basis. Sometimes I find them. Sometimes I don't. 

Hats off to you brother.
Logged
MovingOn23

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married, living together
Posts: 41



« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2017, 11:08:43 AM »

A little over a week later, and we've had what I would consider 8 good days in a row. Several potential pitfalls along the way, but she has managed them well (and I have too). I must admit it has me second guessing the possibility of reconciliation.

Now there's a whole side story that involves her mom who has mental issues of her own (constantly talks, repeats herself, only able to focus on her own racing thoughts). My wife has almost no tolerance for interactions with her mom at this point and limits calls and conversations with her - not to the point of NC, but a lot. So - my mother in law got evicted from her apartment, and the apartment she is moving into isn't available for 2-3 weeks and she lives on a VERY meager budget (i.e. hotel stay out of the question), so she was going to come stay with me. But my wife is staying at the house while we pack it (as a reminder, we sold the house and will be moving out in a few weeks), she and my wife do not get along, my teenage son who is home (home school online) is also intolerant of my MIL's difficult nature. Anyway, if the MIL stays at the house, it is surely a recipe for disaster. Our solution - the MIL will stay at my wife's apartment for the time being, and my wife will stay at the house with me and continue to help get the house ready for the move.

The next few weeks are something that I don't have a choice in getting through (packing the house, moving into rental house), so let's hope that the next few weeks are as good between me and my wife as the last week was. If things turn out that way, I may just have to move this thread to the undecided board ... .
Logged
Lucky Jim
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 6211


« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2017, 01:42:12 PM »

Excerpt
There are probably some things I should say along these lines in a very direct, blunt way that would be more firm.

Hey MO23, Agree with that.  A few harsh words at the outset can avoid a lot of trouble down the line, yet we Nons tend to lack the capacity for that kind of firmness.  I sure did!  LJ
Logged

    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
Inneedofhelp
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 66


« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2017, 09:46:16 PM »

Do not be mad at yourself. All of us who have loved someone with BPD (married 17 years, 2 children) have the questions, the guilt, the feeling like we have been tricked into giving so much of our life. I have just begun to find the strength to check in with myself and find that I don't want to live this way anymore. I am the one trying to detach and move on-I deserve more. We are kind, generous people who don't need to commit ourselves anymore to someone who can't love us in a healthy way. Stay strong!
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!