I Miss Her So Much

[JJacks0]

Felt better for a little while... .

Now I just feel like I'm going backwards. I miss her so much. I really don't want to be with anyone else.
I read through some of our old text messages today (from June/July) and I wish more than anything to have that back.

We haven't talked in 2 weeks. This comes after her attempt at being friends. She hasn't indicated any desire to get back together.
Lately I've been feeling like being honest with her and just telling her how I feel - how badly I want to give it one more shot. But I also worry that I could just push her away more. And I sort of feel like a chump at the same time, since the last time we spoke I told her that I missed her and she said nothing in return. The past few interactions have been me putting myself out there and her denying me so it feels a little pathetic to once again profess my love to her only to hear that she's moved on.

I don't believe that she's seeing anyone else or I wouldn't even consider this.
It's just so tempting.

What should I do?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

I wouldn't tell her again, or bring up any relationship stuff with her if I were you. I get the longing to talk and profess your feelings though. It might just trigger her and make your fear of pushing her away into a reality.

Another real possibility is that she might take your reaching out in a romantic sense as ignoring her desire to have nothing romantic with you right now. It might be telling her that you don't think that her feelings matter.

There may be other ways of conveying your love to her though. Could you treat her with love and compassion to show her your love rather than just expressing the words?

[Kalinin]

I am in a similar situation and completely understand what you are feeling right now. To make matters worse, she is with somebody else now, and they are getting married in about two weeks.

I understand the urge to express your feelings, but that won't help and can push her further away. She is well aware of your feelings for her, the issue is her feelings for you - and right now there is nothing you can do about that.

Don't violate your boundaries and be "just friends" with her, if it's not what you want. I was in this situation before and it was just too much for me. It brought me a lot of pain, and I made a fool of myself. 

Right now all you can do is give her space. Don't initiate any contact, if she contacts you - be polite, but brief. The only way this relationship is going to work is if she will come back to you on her own.

I went through every relationship-advice site on the Internet trying to figure out how to be together with her again, but there is nothing there. No secret formula. Finally I realized that it's simply not what she wants, and I got to respect that.

I know it's one of the toughest feelings in life - loving somebody and not being able to be with them. Hopefully it all will work out in the end.

[vanx]

Hi, just wanted to chime in here. I'm new to the forum and am recently in a similar situation. After about 2 weeks also, I did reach out to her, and though she was sweet and receptive, I regret doing so as I gave up more strength I had tried to rebuild and I fear it just validated what she saw as the problem.
I don't know if it's similar for you, but I felt like maybe she pushed me away because she wanted reassurance, but that was wishful thinking. I agree with the other commenters. You have to respect what she said. Reaching out may provide a temporary relief from your pain, but I think you should view doing so as only making what you want less likely. I know it's hard, but just take care of yourself in other ways now. You're not alone.

[JJacks0]

Meili - I think your idea is a good one - showing her, rather than saying anything. I've tried to do so, but I'm not getting anything in response any longer.

The first time we spent together as friends went really well. I listened to her, validated her (I believe), we laughed a lot and talked about upbeat things for the most part. That was for 7 hours. The second time felt like it went even better - we met to do some work together but just talked the entire time. She gave me a big hug at the end and mentioned what we would do next time. That was a month ago - I haven't seen her since. We have messaged each other a few times since then, but not much. I found out that something bad happened to her family pet and I messaged her about it, even offered help if there was anything I could do. She called me to tell me about it and we talked for about an hour. She suggested maybe we meet on campus, but that didn't happen. She also said she'd come visit me at work, but that didn't happen. I suggested we get together another time, but she was busy. I told her I missed her and that was the last message exchanged in weeks. She said nothing in reply. Was it wrong to have said that?

She had said that she was busy that evening but that she'd probably come see me the following week (didn't happen)... .and in response, I said I'd like that and that I missed her. It seems strange that not only did she not answer (that I sort of expected), but she didn't even say a thing about not coming in to see me and it's been weeks now.

I would love to show her how I feel, but I'm afraid I won't have anymore opportunities.

Kalinin - I'm so sorry to hear that you're going through the same. I can't imagine how heartbreaking it must be to know your ex is getting married. Thank you for the advice. I'm going to keep giving her space and not initiating any contact. I hope that eventually she will come back on her own.

vanx- I appreciate your advice as well. It's helped to hear from others in similar situations, although I'm so sorry that you've experienced the same. You're right, I have had the thought that perhaps she just needs more reassurance - that maybe if I could show her how dedicated I am she'll be put at ease. But I think as you and others have pointed out, it may have the opposite effect.

[Meili]

Was it wrong? No, but probably not the best way to handle this particular situation.

If I read what you said correctly, you've told her twice that you miss her and twice you've received nothing in response other than silence. Stop doing what isn't working.

What you wrote that was working was being bright, shiny, and lovingly indifferent. That was getting you results, so it stands to reason that more of that is a good plan.

I don't think that at this stage you need to stay NC if you can handle the contact. LC is probably a good idea though lest you risk overwhelming her. Remember, that the fear of enmeshment/engulfment is strong just like the fear of abandonment. There's a fine line between the two that needs to be walked.

When you were being the bright version of yourself, you were neither engulfing her nor were you abandoning her.

Is there anything interesting that you can think of to do that you could invite her to do with you that you'd invite any other friend to do?

[JJacks0]

I'm sorry, I think I worded that poorly. I just told her once that I missed her - that was the last time that we spoke over text. But it still seems to have been a bad move, as she did not reply and it has now been 2 weeks, NC. So not only did she not reply, but she also didn't come visit me as she intended, or even notify me that she wasn't coming or say anything about it afterwards.

I didn't draw any attention to it because I felt like maybe telling her that I missed her caused her to pull back a little. Maybe that was too much for her. So I chose to give her space after that and figured she'd come to me if she wanted to.

I agree, she was most receptive and seemed to really enjoy my company those past two times we spent together, just having fun. The thing is, I've felt like I should wait on her contact since I've invited her to do something twice now since, and she has declined. I know she was busy both times, but she also made no effort to reschedule with me. Am I pushing it if I keep asking? If you don't think it's overwhelming, I will try to think of something fun to invite her to in the coming weeks.

I've also been debating whether or not I should message her a Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow or not. Might seem trivial but this is the first year we've been apart for it so I'm not sure how to handle it.

[Meili]

I don't think that occasionally inviting her to do things is pushing. If you do it daily and try to monopolize her time, that's a different story.

[JJacks0]

Thank you Meili, I appreciate the advice!

[Meili]

I hope that it turns out to be good advice!

[JJacks0]

Just a little update (or lack thereof, really):

I still haven't had any more contact with her. I was hoping that she would contact me first so I wouldn't feel like it's disproportionately me. I also thought that I might hear from her on or around Thanksgiving since it was our first apart, but that didn't happen. So now it's been about 20 days.

I keep feeling tempted to invite her when I'm out, but I've been able to control those impulses. Whenever I want to, I've tried to imagine what the outcome would be, and felt like she would decline... .leaving me in a worse position than I'm in now. It just feels safer to wait until she's initiated conversation.

Then again there's always that chance that something good could come from it if I just invited her out. That's the tempting part. If only I could predict the future and see the outcomes. All I really want to do is spend time with her, but it's so complicated. I feel like I have to get it just right or I run the risk of pushing her further away.

[Hisaccount]

I feel your pain. Mine keeps saying she wants to be friends, she wants to do stuff together.
I was in the same boat, too pushy. Trying to hard, I finally learned through her parents that she still loves me very much but she is mad at me. I don't know why, but I need to give her time to not be mad at me.

We have no way of knowing what they are thinking, but I have to agree that leave it alone is the best choice, she has to decide that she wants  you again. She actually has to believe she lost you. If she thinks she still has you to fall back on then she doesn't give you any more thought than that.
It is hard, because I am obsessed with my wife. I know that once I go NC if she doesn't respond soon after I will no longer be obsessed with her and then our relationship could never be as good as it once was, if I am silly enough to take that chance again. In my case I think the thought of me not being obsessed with her will drive her to try with me again. If not, then hey I will get over it and actually have a happy life with a normal person that actually wants me and can forgive me when I screw up.

[Meili]

The trick is to let go of worrying about the outcome. As long as you're worried, you are not confident. That is not attractive to anyone.

[JJacks0]

Hi Hisaccount,
Yeah the problem may be that she knows I'm always here, so she can go about doing whatever she does, and if she needs me she knows she can just call me up. I have basically reassured her of that, and I guess that does give away my power. I didn't want her to feel abandoned and I would feel terrible if she needed someone, thought of me, but felt like she couldn't contact me. She has had suicide attempts and many, many threats before, so it scares me to think of her struggling. I couldn't live with myself if something happened while I was trying to play hard to get. But that is the catch, because the more I think about it, she is probably going to go as long as she can without me now to see if anything better is out there.


Meili, I know you're right about that, but I always get hung up there. Because if I didn't worry about the outcome, would I care to contact her at all? I don't know. But I know it isn't attractive to be insecure.

[Meili]

Meili, I know you're right about that, but I always get hung up there. Because if I didn't worry about the outcome, would I care to contact her at all? I don't know. But I know it isn't attractive to be insecure.

My guess is that yes you would care.

Not caring about the outcome puts you in control of your own life. It's the worry about the outcome that keeps us on eggshells and gives our power over to the other person.

[Hisaccount]

Not caring about the outcome is exactly right. It is extremely hard. You basically have to be over her to feel that way. Which is a double edged sword, when I get over her will I still want her back?
I have the same problem, she knows that I will always come running if she needs something.
But she also knows that nobody is better for her than me. She knows me better than anyone and interactions with other people will prove that.

I had a talk with my ex last night. She called up to ask about an asset I am supposed to be selling for the divorce and next thing you know we are talking about all kinds of stuff she straight out said I have no other friends that have the common interests. We talked a lot about the past.

Then it turned and this is where I failed. She started bringing up her hurt and I did not respond properly. See last night her complaint was that I hadn't given her birthday or Christmas gifts for years. Now this is not true and I tried to argue that point. That is where I failed. I should have listened, empathized and let her go on. Instead I started saying, don't you remember this one or that one? Or but I bought this or that for you.
That ruined it and the phone call ended with her crying and upset again.
So then she didn't come home last night. She sleeps at her office.

This morning I reached out and said I was sorry that I ruined her evening and that I am trying to figure out how to cheer her up yet still failing miserably.
She responded with, I cannot be cheered up only time and distance will move those memories from the front of he mind.


If you see what happened here. She reached out then I was not prepared to handle it correctly.

Positive take away she is talking about trying to let the past go.
Negative take away, I am still a trigger and don't know how to deal with her.

[Meili]

Not caring about the outcome is exactly right. It is extremely hard. You basically have to be over her to feel that way. Which is a double edged sword, when I get over her will I still want her back?

I disagree. You don't have to completely detach, you have to let go of the need to control the situation and simply accept that it might not work out like you expected.

When most of us find this board, we are desperately searching for a way to keep the failed or failing relationship alive. We find hope here, because there is hope. At some point, many of us allow that hope to develop into an expectation. Expectations are what cause the problem. There is nothing wrong with hope, but when we expect something we often get disappointed.

I often liken it to playing the lottery. You don't really expect to win, but you hope that you do. When you don't, you aren't crushed and your life doesn't go into a tailspin.

It's kind of feels like banking on the lottery winnings to buy your groceries in a BPD relationship. If you don't win, you believe that you'll starve to death. So you believe that you must win and expect to win because you need to win. In reality, you'll always find another way to get food if you don't win.

When you are a self-sufficient person with a strong sense of self-worth, self-image, and self-respect, it really doesn't matter what the outcome will be because you know that you'll survive and continue to thrive. Sure, we can still hope for the outcome we want, but we know that we'll be fine if we don't get it.

The choice to love the person can, and should be, separate and apart from the outcome of the relationship. If the former is reliant on the latter, then it isn't love anyway.

[Hisaccount]

Yes you are exactly right. Love is accepting and unconditional. I either love her of I don't.

Has nothing to do with having a relationship with her.

I had that wrong.
At my core I hope we can fix it, but what I do, I should do out of love with no thought of reward.

[Meili]

At my core I hope we can fix it, but what I do, I should do out of love with no thought of reward.

I really like the way that you put that! It's so true. We love because we love and to completely love means that we must love no matter what. We must radically accept all that comes with that love if it's real. That includes not being in a relationship with the object of our affection when necessary.

I'm not suggesting that anyone make that choice. I'm just pointing out that the two things (love and the relationship) are not intrinsically linked. Either can exist without the other. Of course, in ideal situations, they are both present.

[patientandclear]

I'd just submit for your consideration that loving "no matter what" means promising yourself and the other person that, literally, no matter how they treat you and your relationship/connection, your own feeling will remain unwavering. How can we ever say that and maintain our own obligation not to abandon ourselves?  Really--it doesn't matter what the other person does or how they treat you?

[Meili]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can still love someone no matter how they treat me. I just refuse the treatment and remove myself from the situation. The love doesn't change, just the action.

You can still love your abuser, but not allow yourself to be abused.

[Grey Kitty]

I keep feeling tempted to invite her when I'm out, but I've been able to control those impulses. Whenever I want to, I've tried to imagine what the outcome would be, and felt like she would decline... .leaving me in a worse position than I'm in now. It just feels safer to wait until she's initiated conversation.

Not caring about the outcome is exactly right. It is extremely hard. You basically have to be over her to feel that way.

There is a fine distinction around this, and when I "get" it, it really helps me.

If you reach out to somebody, you WANT to be acknowledged, accepted, get a positive response. You don't want to be rejected or ignored. Of course you CARE.

If you stop caring, that is numbing yourself and not feeling; it isn't detachment. You may need to do that today, and it does help... .but it isn't the best solution.

Detachment is being able to take that rejection, and not go down a rabbit hole, not spend a day or a week feeling depressed and miserable about it.

JJacks0, detachment is a work in progress. If you have it today, you could well lose it tomorrow. And find it again the next day. Overall, you will find yourself stronger and more able, but it takes time and practice. Pay attention to how you are feeling.

If you don't feel like you can handle the rejection today, then don't reach out today. Or perhaps you feel safe reaching out in a small way, but not in a higher stakes way--maybe not on a holiday, knowing that it will be harder on you to be rejected at that time.

Protect yourself by choosing what risks you can take and when you feel up to it. 

[JJacks0]

That is where I failed. I should have listened, empathized and let her go on. Instead I started saying, don't you remember this one or that one? Or but I bought this or that for you.

I would probably have done something similar to tell you the truth. When you point it out I can see how this is invalidating, but my initial reaction would be the same as yours. It comes so naturally.
What do you think you should have said instead? I understand the listening and empathizing part, but should you have just let her believe you didn't get her anything? That doesn't seem right to me either. How would you word it better?

If you see what happened here. She reached out then I was not prepared to handle it correctly.

This has made me stop and think... .although I miss my ex terribly, maybe it is better to have little-no contact right now. I probably don't understand enough yet. I thought I did, I know I'm more well-equipped now than I was before, but examples like these throw me for a loop. I guess I have some more learning to do.

I often liken it to playing the lottery. You don't really expect to win, but you hope that you do. When you don't, you aren't crushed and your life doesn't go into a tailspin.

This makes sense, it's a good analogy. I think I do put too much weight on saving this r/s, to the point that I begin to expect it. I'm worried that when I feel most confident, it's because I convince myself that I will fix this at some point - maybe not now, but someday. And it's worrisome because that's not just optimism, it sounds more like denial. I'm afraid that if I continue with that attitude and see her move on with someone new, I'll just be wrecked. So I'm striving to get to the point you've mentioned, where I'm not completely detached, but enough so that I'm not destroyed if I don't end up with her ever again. The trick is getting there though. Easier said than done. I'm not even really sure how to do that honestly.

At my core I hope we can fix it, but what I do, I should do out of love with no thought of reward.

Agreed. The things I do, I do because I love her, not because I want something from it. I'll continue to do those things anyways, but of course we all hope for the ideal situation.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can still love someone no matter how they treat me. I just refuse the treatment and remove myself from the situation. The love doesn't change, just the action.

You can still love your abuser, but not allow yourself to be abused.

Yes, I agree with this.
I love my ex despite all that's happened, and I accept that this is how she is.
Sadly, that doesn't necessarily mean that I can live with it, as is.

If you reach out to somebody, you WANT to be acknowledged, accepted, get a positive response. You don't want to be rejected or ignored. Of course you CARE.

Detachment is being able to take that rejection, and not go down a rabbit hole, not spend a day or a week feeling depressed and miserable about it.

Yes, this is where I often get stuck. If I make an effort to see or talk to someone, I of course do care on some level and would feel a little hurt if I didn't receive a response. But if I didn't hear back from a regular friend, even for a week or two, I probably wouldn't think much of it. I would feel really hurt however, if I didn't hear back from my ex... .and I guess that's what I need to work on. Detaching enough to perhaps get to the level of hurt that I'd feel after being slighted by anyone else. 

Thank you, I feel like that has given me a better idea of where I need to be.
Now the trick is just figuring out how to get there, how to take her off that pedestal and start thinking of her the way I do other people.

[Grey Kitty]

If I make an effort to see or talk to someone, I of course do care on some level and would feel a little hurt if I didn't receive a response. But if I didn't hear back from a regular friend, even for a week or two, I probably wouldn't think much of it. I would feel really hurt however, if I didn't hear back from my ex... .and I guess that's what I need to work on. Detaching enough to perhaps get to the level of hurt that I'd feel after being slighted by anyone else.

Think about what actually happens when your ex decides to reject you (in this way or some other way).

It is very natural to take it personally. To make it all about you, what is wrong with you, and how you failed, and how you should have said it differently, etc... .whatever... .It is your rabbit hole to dive down into, and you know how you paint the walls down there 

But that isn't what she did. That is what you are doing.

She rejected you because of stuff that is all inside her head. She's upset, she's afraid of something with you. Heck, she's the one with mental illness here... .she clearly goes down her own rabbit hole, and can't find her way out most of the time. You know her well, and might be able to guess what is down there. Perhaps she shared some of it with you. Probably not all of it. But it really doesn't matter exactly what demons she's facing (and losing control to). What matters is that she's choosing to reject you for her own reasons.

And don't let her telling you exactly WHY you are to blame for all of it change this. Even if she believes you are to blame for everything, you really do know better.

For me, remembering that the rejection is all about her, and not about me helps.

[JJacks0]

Thanks Grey Kitty, that's a very good point! I will keep that in mind. 

[once removed]

hi JJacks0,

what sounds disproportionate to me is probably the extent to which the matter is preoccupying you vs her. youre operating on different time tables. two weeks probably feels like very little time to her, and i imagine (ive been there) it feels like an eternity (an unpleasant one) to you.

theres a tendency to read into stuff, and second guess each of your own moves. and it is difficult to be confident in that state.

i think a good goal would be to distract yourself and get her out of your day to day life. that does require a level of detachment, but in this case i think it would be productive for you. take a longer view of this.

from my perspective things are in a relatively good place. you had a good time together (id actually limit it - seven hours is a long time and being an available shoulder can lead to your availability being taken for granted. give her something to miss.) and you reflected the kind of stuff that attracted her in the first place. from her perspective it likely doesnt feel long ago, and as i said, it may feel like an eternity for you.

inviting her to something light and casual in nature (maybe even a group thing if youre feeling up to it) might be a good idea. if she declines or is non responsive i wouldnt do it again.  it could begin to come off as pursuing a relationship.

i know this situation can be incredibly anxiety inducing. try to keep perspective. if you dont hear from her for some weeks or even a couple of months, i dont think it has much if any bearing on the outcome.

[JJacks0]

Thanks once removed.

You make a valid point, we could very well be on different time tables. I guess I just figured that if she had a good time with me, two weeks (actually almost a month now) would seem like a long time for her as well.

As far as inviting her somewhere goes... .the last two attempts were made by me. Granted it was nearly a month ago now, but I invited her out on Nov. 8th, and when that didn't work I told her that she was welcome to stop into the bar I work at the following evening if she felt like a drink (this didn't feel like too much at the time because she had mentioned potentially doing that a few weeks prior). She was busy so she wasn't able to... .but she indicated that she would probably come in the following week. She never came and I haven't heard a word from her since. 

That's why I've been waiting for a cue from her to see if she's still interested in maintaining contact. I don't want to look overbearing or desperate. Although she responded in a friendly manner both times, she sort of blew me off ultimately and didn't acknowledge that we had even discussed it.

[Hisaccount]

What do you think you should have said instead? I understand the listening and empathizing part, but should you have just let her believe you didn't get her anything? That doesn't seem right to me either. How would you word it better?

This is where I struggle and I am still learning. Actually had a good conversation with my ex Friday and she couldn't handle how nice I was being and left.

The struggle I have is, we are supposed empathize and I am working on that. When I am doing that, and I think this is the codependency in me, I tend to take all the blame on myself and I think that is wrong.
We don't want to support their incorrect beliefs about us, we simply want to do our best to understand how they are feeling and show them know we are doing our best to accept it.
What I will do is try to redirect (not sure if this correct or not) By saying things like you don't have to worry about that anymore, or that can't happen again.
If she says why? Then I simply say, because we are divorced (or out of the relationship) and so none of that matters anymore it is in the past, or I am getting counseling. (I am)

Kind of depends on what it is. Maybe someone else will give us both guidance because I don't want to make things worse, but I want to try and re leave her guilt, or shame, or hurt. Try to build her back up so she can function.

[vanx]

Don't know if I am adding much here, but I wanted to jump in because this is an interesting thread and I really empathize with your situation, JJackS0. I just want to honor the very wonderful part about being attached and "outcome dependent", the part that loves and wants intimacy. I don't know if this resonates with you (similar to once removed's input) but anxious behavior can be exacerbated by avoidant behavior. Those who avoid may find it easier to appear confident, even though they are vulnerable as well. That doesn't mean that you, I, or anyone can't reflect and grow, but it is not all up to you to make this thing work.  Guess I just wanted to say you aren't alone, and personally, I find a bit of worry and lack of confidence to be attractive and honest, and I really feel for you. But the important thing is you are being good to yourself. Even though you want to make the right moves in this situation, please be careful not to take on too much responsibility. Perhaps analyzing the situation from a BPD perspective could help you play your cards right, but please remember to honor your needs, your want to love and be loved, and be true to yourself. Detaching will help you on the path of healing in case things do not work out. Kind of rambling here, but I wish you peace and health no matter what comes.

[Meili]

I think that there is some confusion here regarding detachment.

Detaching from the person does not mean that you stop loving him/her. It also does not mean that you cannot feel love or intimacy. In any healthy relationship, whether with a pwBPD or not, there are two, distinct and separate individuals. Think of two circles touching, but not overlapping. Each exists apart from the other.

Relationships become unhealthy when the two circles begin to cross or merge. When this happens, personal identity is lost. We cease being ourselves and do not feel that we exist wholly without the other person. We start to depend on the other person to make us feel complete. We start to walk on eggshells for fear of losing the part of ourselves that is now the other person, and we give up part of our lives to that person in hopes of ensuring our own happiness.

Similarly, detaching from the outcome of the situation does not mean that we do not love the pwBPD, nor does it mean that we must stop feeling intimacy for/with that person. It just means that we do not allow the outcome to dictate how we live our lives. It also means that we no longer walk on eggshells around the pwBPD. We take control of our own lives once again and separate the circles. We become whole again in and of ourselves.