My Story and Where I am at -

[Mecaco]

Hello - I found this site yesterday after meeting with my counselor looking for resources.  My story -

I am 50 years old, married (3rd marriage); two kids at home (3 and 5) and one grown and on her own (25). I have codependency issues of my own that I am working on and although my wife refuses to go to co-counseling (we tried before but she says that I lie to and manipulate the counselors so they attack her) my current counselor strongly believes that because of the nature of our fights, the topics of disagreement, and such that my wife may have BPD.  He felt like it was either this or bipolar but the symptoms seem to fit better with BPD.  This is interesting because the one counselor that we saw together (once) asked me if she had ever been treated for bipolar disorder (again we only went once and she felt the counselor attacked her because of the lies and manipulation that I spun). 

while dating, we would get into nasty fights sometimes for reasons I never fully understood, only that she was very angry and all I could do was to try to make her happy.  the good times were great and the bad times were terrible.  not knowing BPD was in the picture I handled the arguments poorly.  I would plead for forgiveness and agree with her for whatever she said I did wrong.  We got pregnant and got married.

fast forward, the arguments continued.  Many times it was because she was convinced I was cheating on her and I would try to explain what really happened but she wouldn't hear any of it.  One incident in July 2013 got physical where she broke my nose and when I tried to leave she wouldn't let me.  I locked myself in the office and she was yelling and screaming in the hallway.  She woke up our daughter (2 yrs at the time) and started parading her up and down the hall while screaming.  I called the police because I wanted to leave without anymore incident.  Not knowing the law, they simply wouldn't allow me to just leave, someone needed to be arrested for domestic violence.  They arrested my wife.  The next day I went to see my counselor and he recommended a protective order.  I was running on no sleep and stunned as to what happened and agreed to do so.  I later got the protective order dismissed because my wife wanted to reconcile as did I.  I promised her I would never again call the police. 

Since then there have been 7-8 more physical violence incidents amongst the countless fights.  The fights typically start at midnight and last until 3am and are filled with hateful comments and things that I know are lies, but that over time I start to believe.  I start to doubt myself, my own sanity, my own recollections.  The physical violence included hitting with open hands, fists, with objects, with things thrown at me, kicks and punches to the groin, attempts to "push in my teeth".  Recently she has added spitting, and through it all I have never touched her nor have I called the police. 

In July 2016 when she said she was leaving the state and that she was going to take the kids and she wouldn't tell me where she was going, I contacted an attorney who advised me to (in order to slow things down) serve divorce papers and a restraining order.  I rescinded these as well and she never left.  However this second legal action has gone further to give her ammunition that I will try to destroy her and betray her with no holds barred.  I remember the hits I have taken, the language I have endured but to her it has always been justified.

I have two brothers, my parents, and my older daughter.  When I speak to them she gets upset because when I reach out for support because of what I am going through she feels "I am betraying her again by telling all of the things she has done and how bad a mother she is."  Because of this I no longer talk to my parents, brothers, or daughter.

When I go on business trips (even same day or overnight trips) she gets upset because she feels I am going to cheat on her or I am off doing something else.  This has affected my work because as I drag my feet when travel is needed, my boss no longer thinks I am able to travel and because of this my growth becomes limited.

I cant bring any of this up because it starts a whole new round of arguments of how I am blaming everything on her.

Where am I at today?  My counselor told me some hard truths.  that what we are doing to our children is abusive (they see and hear the arguments and much of the physical attacks);  that my unwillingness to do anything and just endure it makes me complicit in the abuse and enables my wife to continue to go down her path;  that my always wanting to please her and make things right for her by agreeing to whatever she is saying shows my codependency.

But I am learning and growing.  This site is phenomenal.  I see example after example where I am not alone.  I also see tools that can really help me in my journey to stop being codependent and to stop enabling.  I also see tools that can help me find my voice to finally say "No that is not ok".

I am 50 years old and I have felt like an 8 year old cowering from his dad;  but I am seeing I can also be a 50 year old that is able to protect that 8 year old boy, as well as the 5 and 3 year old children that are currently at home. 

I am sorry for such a long post.  I am not bashing anyone here and I am not looking for sympathy.  I am just looking to grow and to remind myself that I am not alone, and that when I start to question my own sanity, that I don't need to do so.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

Wecome and hello! I am so sorry for what brings you here, and so glad you found the site. You are definitely not alone.

I commend you for being able to hear what your counselor is telling you, about being complicit in the abuse your children are exposed to. That is not an easy pill to swallow.

Knowing what you have learned, how do you plan to handle the next round of physical violence and abuse?

It seems like ground zero, to come up with a safety plan. As you begin to heal and grow stronger, your wife is likely to feel destabilized. She may escalate even more the next time around as she seeks some equilibrium (sensing that things are changing), and push your boundaries even harder. Any thoughts on what you will do to keep yourself and the kids safe?

[Mecaco]

livednlearned

thanks for the response - I can assure you that when my counselor mentioned that I was part of the abuse of my kids, I cried, I told him the only reason I am still in the marriage is because of those two kids and my primary focus is to protect them.  That being said after stewing on it for a bit I also recognized what I was doing was providing them with the same childhood that I had.  and that is not what I wanted to do.  I agreed with him and resolved to make a difference.  As a child I couldn't say no to my dad.  and when my counselor asked me to imagine what my daughter would say to me in 15 years, I again cried because she would probably say the same thing I would have said to my mom - "why didn't you do something"

the next round of violence and abuse - if she starts to fall into the hurtful comments I will tell her that I cannot talk to her now but that later, when we both cool down, we can talk.  If it turns physical I will leave the house for a short period.

regarding the kids - she has never hit the kids although she can talk to them very roughly.  If things get beyond rough talk - I suppose calling the police may be in order.

Being untreated my counselor has told me she wont get better.  All I asked him for were better tools to diffuse the anger.

Also, being new to the realization of BPD as element, I am new to all of this and know I have a lot of work to do in safety plans to come up with something better and more solid.

I still love her.  But things will have to change and there is plenty I can do.

[Lockjaw]

You sound like me. I couldn't leave my last wife, and not sure I would marry someone again, just because of the legal cost.

I don't like physical confrontations, and that really bothers me that you are letting it happen. I know there are guys who thinks if a woman hits a man, that you can hit her back. I don't believe that, but... .what concerns me is there may come a time where you react out of just pure instinct. That happens to me if someone gets to close to my face.

I believe no one has a right to touch me in anger. And I believe I don't have to stand there and take your verbal abuse either. I hope you go someplace safe... .

[livednlearned]

Hey casey1234,

I had the exact same conversation with my T, so similar to what you describe.

Often we don't even know it's abuse, especially if we grew up in similar kinds of home environments. My T also pointed out (based on her experience with custody battles) that a judge would look upon my enabling behavior as a sign I was no more fit to parent than my son's father. You can't really stand up and testify how bad it was without making it uncomfortably clear you let it go on for so long, a hard truth to face.

Working on skills to diffuse the anger is a great part of the strategy. Have you been reading about validation and SET (support, empathy, truth) statements?

You are on the right path  Be gentle with yourself as you learn and grow. It is often two steps forward, one step back. And the step back can feel like failure when it's more like a growing pain.

We're here for you, walking next to you as you make your way.

LnL

[Mecaco]

Lockjaw --- that fear is in me too.  the last two or three physical violence encounters I could start to see myself striking back.  I am 170 lbs and she is 100 lbs.  I have never been hit in my adult life until now, and I have never in my life hit another person.  I do not like violence at all.  However I get scared when I see how tenuous my hold is on my emotions at times and where that could lead.  that and my counselor work is getting me to understand it has to change now.  I need to change my response now.  It can never get to that point again.  I have the ability to affect the outcome to prevent this.

Livednlearned --- I am slowly reading the resources here and will look those up.  I am also reading "The High Conflict Couple" by Alan Fruzzetti as it was written with BPD in mind.  This book, combined with my counseling, I am learning that my automatic shame response comes from my childhood of wanting to simply say "stop" and not being able to do so, and then in my adult life, when judgemental statements are made that I again feel that I am not getting a chance to be heard, which takes me back to the responses that 8 year old boy made.   Bottom line I am getting there slowly!

thanks so much for your responses!

[Lockjaw]

You would be surprised at your strength if you were in fight or flight mode. You could likely toss her across the room, break bones, etc.

I know one time when I was in high school, and I was a late bloomer, I weighed 107 pounds when I got my license, my mom and I got into an argument and she slapped me. I am easy to catch off guard like that. I told her not to slap me anymore, and she did it again. I said stop, and she did it again. I picked her up, by her arms (pinning them to her side) and carried her across the living room with my arms outstretched and set her feet first on the couch.

My mom was easily 150 pounds or so at that point. I have no idea what I did after that. All I know is I was furious that she had slapped me 3 times on the same side of my face, and I wanted her to quit.

Then look at it from the police side. You are 170, she is 100 pounds. Without witnesses, if she has marks on her, you are going to jail. You cannot count on getting a cop that will see it for what it is. You could have 10 come out, and they would all do 10 different things. Trust me, I have had them come out over custody issues with my ex and her ex, and the cop basically said, let the kid do what he wants, screw the custody order.

Soo... .I strongly advise you to keep your distance and get a camera set up if you are going to be around her. Otherwise, I would run like the wind. I like my guns to much to lose them over some woman. But that is just me.