How do these people live with themselves?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I had a girlfriend leave me 4 months ago and I'm still hurting pretty bad.

Although I'm not sure she was full blown BPD, she did exhibit some of the symptoms, including the way she after a year and a half coldly left me and refused to speak with me again telling me to leave her alone even threatening to call the police on me. This came after she told me she wanted to move in with me and that I didn't need to be perfect as I was perfect for her. And now nothing.

I couldn't believe the coldness. It's as if I was dealing with another person. Yet she puts these pictures of herself on facebook dressed up having fun on the town while I sit here in pain. How can she do this? How do these people live with themselves?

Do they not have a conscious? Is she not able to see the pain she causes and feel bad for a person? It's sickening.

[jinglebells1989]

I had a girlfriend leave me 4 months ago and I'm still hurting pretty bad.

Although I'm not sure she was full blown BPD, she did exhibit some of the symptoms, including the way she after a year and a half coldly left me and refused to speak with me again telling me to leave her alone even threatening to call the police on me. This came after she told me she wanted to move in with me and that I didn't need to be perfect as I was perfect for her. And now nothing.

I couldn't believe the coldness. It's as if I was dealing with another person. Yet she puts these pictures of herself on facebook dressed up having fun on the town while I sit here in pain. How can she do this? How do these people live with themselves?

Do they not have a conscious? Is she not able to see the pain she causes and feel bad for a person? It's sickening.

[seeperplexed]

I can only speak specifically to my case with my BPDex. I truly believe that my ex does not have a conscience. I don't think she's necessarily evil or malicious, but that she truly does not have a conscience or understand the implications of her behavior on others. If there is a little bit of her that does understand, she shuts up by compartmentalizing and lying to herself until she believes it. It's unbelievably difficult.

[Warcleods]

No they don't have a conscience or empathy for anyone.  Nor are they able to articulate their feelings on any level.  It's easier for them to suppress, ignore and move on.  My teenage kids have more empathy than these grown a$$ children.  They are so out of touch with their own feelings, they might as well be zombies.  I don't fault BPD sufferers, I fault their dyfunctional parents for raising such shallow human beings. 

[fromheeltoheal]

How can she do this? How do these people live with themselves?

She does it because she has to.  Borderlines feel emotions intensely, and without a stable self of their own they can't soothe them, so they need to develop psychological tools to not feel those emotions.  And they live with themselves the way we all do, one day at a time, adjusting what we make things mean, it's just more intense for borderlines, so the tools need to be equally intense. 

And what you mean by the question is how do they treat people the way they do and then go on as if nothing happened, seemingly happy and content?  Again because they have to.  BPD is a shame-based disorder, and to accept responsibility for their behavior would trigger great shame, and a borderline just can't go there, it hurts too much, so use the tools to do what a borderline has to do to not feel that shame.

Do they not have a conscious? Is she not able to see the pain she causes and feel bad for a person? It's sickening.

Yes, borderlines have a conscious and a great ability to empathize, in fact borderlines are great at reading people, as a means to attach and mirror, with the goal being to fuse with someone to become whole.  The problem is, when the disorder goes through its stages, which is always does, and the relationship melts down and someone gets hurt, once again taking responsibility for that hurts too much.  And the borderline gets hurt too, again, the one thing they wanted more than anything, to attach to someone and feel whole, didn't work again, very sad when you think about it.  You lost, she lost, the only winner was the disorder.

So how can you apply this information to your situation jingle, and how can you use it moving forward with your detachment?

[kc sunshine]

fromheeltoheal, your words are always so helpful to me. They put things in perspective. Somehow I have to hear this explanation over and over again. It makes perfect sense on the one hand but on the other hand it is so darn hard to fathom.

[Duped 1]

Mine showed a little empathy during the idolization stage, but never again to me or my kids and the way it ended was as cold as ice. Like she's not even human. She shows empathy for her kids but no one else

[fromheeltoheal]

fromheeltoheal, your words are always so helpful to me. They put things in perspective. Somehow I have to hear this explanation over and over again. It makes perfect sense on the one hand but on the other hand it is so darn hard to fathom.

Yes, mental illness is hard to fathom, at first, but it can be helpful to get into and learn the clinical side of the disorder, to understand why borderlines do what they do, which can clear up a lot of confusion, and once we can see things the way a borderline does, their behaviors start to make sense.

And then, we can choose to accept it, it is what it is, no choice really, and once we're done with that we can look at how we responded, our own behaviors, and what we made things mean, in a very challenging situation, which is great because it can show us who we really are and what we really believe, and then we can make decisions moving forward from that place, with that information.

[Duped 1]

Warclouds you said you don't fault BPD sufferers. I don't completely feel the same way. They still make choices just like an alcoholic does.

[jinglebells1989]

I guess the reason I wrote this is because here it is 4 months later and here I sit still in agony over what this woman did to me. Like all the articles I've read she started the relationship pursuing me very heavily, buying me gifts, she even forced her way to a surgery I had because she wanted to "be there for me". This was 4-5 months into our relationship.

But as soon as the power dynamic shifted and she could tell that I was in love with her and that she brought quite a bit of happiness into my life. BOOM. Shes gone. And not only is she gone but she is gone in a very vicious way. She accuses me of relying too much on her for my happiness. In fact we broke up once before the final break up and she told me she was upset that I didn't treat her like my girlfriend and we never said "i love you". Well guess what? Two months after I start doing all those things she claims I can't make her that important in my life, It's "too much" for her.

The audacity of this woman to just leave me high and dry a few weeks after we had dinner with my parents for my birthday and SHE even bought me a $120 dollar watch. BOOM. Shes gone. And not only is she gone but she's now telling me to "leave her alone". This is a woman that two weeks prior sad I didn't have to "be perfect because I was perfect for her". It's at the point now where she threatens to call the police on me if I keep contacting her. It is devastating and sick. There truly is a special place in hell for this woman.

[Dutched]

They still make choices just like an alcoholic does.

No pwBPD don’t.
We mostly perceive it in our mindset as choice even deliberate choices sometimes.

However pwBPD are driven by their coping behaviour at each moment they feel emotional pain that reminds them of that early pain and the conditioned brain takes over.

The deepest core (Amygdala) say; ‘Survive because you are in pain! Fight or flee! Adapt/survive or have pain!’   

Once learned that touching a hot stove causes pain? So? Flee in order to survive!

A parent that hurts and hurts or shows very inconsistence behaviour, but is so deeply loved?
   Adapt (avoid/be lovable/don’t upset them) or feel that rejection and have severe pain?

I am an adult, free! Want to feel real love as I am a good too! I don't want to be hurt again!

Adult: Hurt by the one that is loved? Initially, I fight, because I am able too, I am good/lovable!

Hurt again and again by that one I love? I fight… until coping sets in.
   Coping: adapt or have pain, fighting is pointless, looking for escape, a door… flee! Cut and delete!
 
We became the personification (stand in parent) for all their pain, yet the one they loved.
Therfore 'failed' them.

[Duped 1]

Ok if she didn't make choices then why did she act so horribly only to me and not in public in a way that anyone could notice? She was fine at work and for the most part socially. I once told her if she acted that way at work or w friends that she wouldn't have a job or any friends. She said everyone is polite in public but she was in an intimate relationship w me so I got to see the "real her".

I wasn't looking for perfection either. Just a simple apology or aknowledgement of her behavior if she slipped. She tried to own some of her behavior early in the relationship and admitted she was highly irritable and had excessive anger, but as time went on she started blaming me for everything and said I was making her crazy to think she had issues and that I was too sensitive and that everyone gets hollered at once in a while.

[SummerStorm]

My teenage kids have more empathy than these grown a$$ children.  They are so out of touch with their own feelings, they might as well be zombies.  

I teach teenagers, and I have had deeper conversations with them than I ever had with my BPD friend, and she's 24 and has a college degree. 

[thefinalrose]

This is almost exactly how my ex is. He cruelly abandoned me six months after he told me he loves everything about me and has never met anyone like me before. He hasn't blocked me on facebook but I've had to block him myself because I couldn't stand seeing the pictures of him with his new girl (who he became involved with very shortly after he discarded me, if not before), looking like he's happy and having a great time and like what happened with our relationship doesn't bother him, while I suffer immensely. How can he not even care? I don't understand how he could go from one extreme to the other in such a relatively short amount of time. It's like my feelings don't matter at all... .

[Duped 1]

That's how I feel Final Rose. Like she never even knew me. It's like she's not human it's so f n cold.

[fromheeltoheal]

For those who haven't read this article, or haven't read it lately, many of us have gotten value out of it:

Surviving a Breakup

[apollotech]

I teach teenagers, and I have had deeper conversations with them than I ever had with my BPD friend, and she's 24 and has a college degree. 

Yes, because a pwBPD is emotionally immature. That too is a result of the attachment (and/or detachment) that went wrong in the beginning. The pwBPD is set on a lifelong quest to replace/replicate that relationship, the one that could make them whole again. A quest which is a fruthless endeavor even before the journey began, as no one can make another whole.

Addressing the OP, it is emotionally immaturity in an adult, which, to an emotionally mature adult, parades itself as lack of empathy/lack of caring (feelings for the betterment of another). It is a child's empathy, constantly driven by the aforementioned quest.

[apollotech]

Duped 1:
Ok if she didn't make choices then why did she act so horribly only to me and not in public in a way that anyone could notice? She was fine at work and for the most part socially. I once told her if she acted that way at work or w friends that she wouldn't have a job or any friends. She said everyone is polite in public but she was in an intimate relationship with me so I got to see the "real her".

Duped 1,

Ha, she told you the truth about herself (she was in an intimate relationship with me so I got to see the "real her".); although, she probably doesn't know and/or understand what drives that truth. You saw the "disordered" her because she had an emotional attachment with you. That's why the general public never sees the disordered her. We, the loved ones, are exposed to the whole spectrum of the disorder, a sad and painful truth. It's not about choices; it is about needs. She saw in you someone that could possibly make her whole again, hence the emotional attachment. In an absurd, disordered way, she paid you a compliment there, although, ultimately, a very painful one. You weren't duped (no pun intended); you were exposed to the "real her." Others, the general public, are the ones that have been/are being duped.

[neverloveagain]

 They have to live everyday with themselves. Ergo that's crime and punishment enough for them. They might not get

it

but they kind of do. And off the record I'm an alcoholic when my disorder is quote out of control I feel I have no choice or free will in my disorder. Just like my ex BPDgf I don't think I just do.

[Dutched]

Ok if she didn't make choices then why did she act so horribly only to me and not in public in a way that anyone could notice? She was fine at work and for the most part socially. I once told her if she acted that way at work or w friends that she wouldn't have a job or any friends. She said everyone is polite in public but she was in an intimate relationship w me so I got to see the "real her".

I wrote the explanation:
  Adult: Hurt by the one that is loved? Initially, I fight, because I am able to, I am good/lovable!

Work, social settings? I wrote ‘hurt by the one that is loved’… 

Is there a ‘love-bond’ with colleagues or in social settings?
No, so no need to be cautious of avoiding pain.

And if being hurt at work… (so hit by a very intruding remark)
Then there is you…
YOU, the one that is loved and can be relied upon.
YOU, the one that is loved, is supposed not to hurt her, to validate and special to understand.

Been there too: exw not yet(!) invited to a party was a reason… to blow up a marriage (I invalidated -so hurt-  as I answered with a rational mind instead of validating feelings first).

[Dutched]

Please don’t understand me wrong, it is not to hurt / offend you in this topic.
Been there myself

I have seen in this topic some (understandable) expressions. And yes, reminding me too about some circumstances / behaviour. 
Wanting to rationalize all irrational and heavy emotional driven behaviour, but by doing so sometimes the core of that irrational behaviour is overlooked.

In a period of overcoming intense hurt, deep grieve and angriness we need to exchange, vent and try to process all.
That is not a linear road, it has steep hills which are difficult to climb.
It has crossings making one wondering which way to go, recognising the smell of that familiar ground and longing for… or passing billboards that reminds us of the devastating…

Certainly not to justify any of ‘their’ behaviour, merely to explain in order for you to grab the core of the concept that will enable you to relate and explain.
Understanding the coldness, the no empathy, the cruelty, the vanishing, etc.

That survival mode?
Once learned that touching a hot stove causes pain? So? Flee in order to survive!
   Adapt or have pain, fighting is pointless, looking for escape, a door… flee! Cut and delete!

But still in deep pain, deep, very deep shame of what was done, unable to ‘solve’ as the mind has no reference to coop with.
It was conditioned to avoid, avoid only.

Split black, as splitting black some one is avoiding that intense pain that comes with ‘of not being  the good lovable child’.
So… shame on you child, shame on you for not being lovable…
So… back to square 1.
Craving for love again, an insecure self, push-pull, avoiding and disappointed again in that hostile world… 

As in my foother, trying to fill a box…  while sitting in a rollercoaster for life... .

[CooperD]

I will never forget what my BPD wife said to me soon after marrying - she said "i hope i can be a much better wife to you than I have been a girfriend".

So there surely is sometimes some level of awareness/consciousness of their behaviour and its impact ?

It was really hard for me to just write and think of what she said as its so freakin sad - that she had (even momentarily)  a reflection of how she had behaved and that she wanted things to be better in the future.

Within a year of marriage we are on the cusp of divorce (i dont know if its been formally signed off as she has blocked me from everything and wont communicate) and the year of marriage has been the worst of my entire life to the point I wanted to end my own life.

My BPD will present that she doesnt struggle to live with herself - the reason being that she can present herself as a victim by painting me black.  Does the BPD know thay they paint other people black as a deliberate coping strategy that im not sure of

[ScotisGone74]

How do they live with themselves?  Well  they barely do it.   No matter who they get married to, how much money they have, what big house they get, or what new job they land... .behind closed doors and after all the glamorous FB posts, they are barely hanging on.   

Disordered or not they make decisions to hurt people and they don't care.   They make decisions everyday on where to eat, what to wear, what to do at work, and they make decisions to crap on good people.    In the end end alot of them crap on so many good people they end up with what they deserve.   

[JerryRG]

My exs, pastor told me time is running out for her and he seriously believes she will be left all alone someday. She can't live with herself, or by herself.

[Claycrusher]

behind closed doors and after all the glamorous FB posts, they are barely hanging on.   

Sometimes, they don't hold on all that well on FB posts, either.  My exBPDw sure doesn't.

[KarmasReal]

I noticed a couple of posts on here that were very similar to things I heard or thought. I always wondered how people couldn't see my exBPD the way I did. I think most people have no idea of what she is really like. She puts on such a facade everywhere and with everyone else. There may be small moments she is true self, but most would just take that as a normal bad or upset mood. I often times wished every one knew what she was like, because it all just felt so dishonest to me. Also, she said similar things to what I see here. I asked her why she could be so normal in public and freaks out on me or the kids, she said I was in the circle, we loved each other, that meant I got the "real her". Really if you take a step back and look for certain signs it would be pretty obvious something was wrong. Lack of friends, terrible intimate relationships, talking about drinking or smoking a lot, menial job, bad with money, talking and acting younger or more immature then they should, overly friendly to the point of flirty, master at asking questions and talking about others or their own problems, drama filled stories. I'm sure many of our exes had many of these signs that we ignored or they simply manipulated us into not seeing the forest for the trees. I knew something was off with my ex probably off the bat, definitely a month in, and I stayed for two years. Two years of suffering her anger, her put downs, her cheating, her inappropriate behavior, her depression, her drinking, her making me feel less than I am. She lives with herself by somehow making it my fault and me the bad guy, it's the only way she could live with what she does. And when reality sets in she will take more anti depressants, drink more, and whatever else to numb it or forget about it. Sad she is the way she is.

[foggydew]

Immature, yes, unable to cope with emotions, yes. My friend's attempts to cope and get understanding are so unhealthy and disordered - if he is feeling pain he lashes out and inflicts pain (and not only on loved ones) or he stops talking or having contact with those he feels close to... or puts them down verbally. He seems to think that he can be understood in this way. I haven't learned how to deal with this stuff other than by ignoring it. He is going into alcohol therapy soon - I hope he gets some help there for his basic problems. He is truly barely hanging on. What is also interesting is that he uses repetetive music or TV programs in such phases, spending hours a day listening or watching when he is disturbed.
However, his motivation to get help is very high at the moment.

[SummerStorm]

she said I was in the circle, we loved each other, that meant I got the "real her".

It's sad.  When my BPD friend first said something similar to me, I felt like I was special.  Of course, that was before I saw every single part of the real her. 

She lives with herself by somehow making it my fault and me the bad guy, it's the only way she could live with what she does. And when reality sets in she will take more anti depressants, drink more, and whatever else to numb it or forget about it. Sad she is the way she is.

I really do think that is how they cope, more often than not.  Just last week, my BPD friend just went off on me, told me I was a "lying piece of s__t," said she never wanted me to contact her again, etc.  Now, she's idealizing a friend from work and is probably telling her that I'm "crazy."  The great thing is that this friend exhibits a ton of BPD traits, so it will be interesting to see how long this lasts.