coping with my BPD wife of 25 years

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am a devout christian and as long as my BPD wife is willing to stay with me and doesn't do anything really stupid like have an affair or try to kill me or the kids, I am determined to stay married to her till death.  Having said that, I must admit it is VERY DIFFICULT much of the time.  I'm looking for others who are in a similar boat to connect with for support.  Please reach out if you are a person like this.

Thanks

[johndude49]

I am a devout christian and as long as my BPD wife is willing to stay with me and doesn't do anything really stupid like have an affair or try to kill me or the kids, I am determined to stay married to her till death.  Having said that, I must admit it is VERY DIFFICULT much of the time.  I'm looking for others who are in a similar boat to connect with for support.  Please reach out if you are a person like this.

Thanks

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Skip]

John, it might help to not put a strict relgious belief as the primary criteria for supporting you.

There are many Christians posting on this site and many, for a number of reasons, that will not consider divorce an option. What every one here holds in common is the commitment to improve the relationship. This board is not a "its bad, leave her" board.

What are you dealing with? Talk to us.  

[Wrongturn1]

John:  Welcome to the boards!  Similar outlook here - Christian and married 19 years... .continually looking for strategies on how to improve my relationship with my uBPDw.  Have seen big improvements in my life and marriage in the time since I started implementing the tools taught here and in a couple of key books (the Eggshells book and When Hope is Not Enough).

What types of issues are you currently dealing with?

[CJhurting]

Hi John:

I am new here for exactly this reason because I have just rules
out divorcing my wife of 16 years because of my Christian
belief and related vow of in sickness and health.

Just to say you are not the only one and similarly will be looking
for answers and insights in this forum.

CJhurting

[johndude49]

Hi All,

Thanks so much for your posts.  I have to visit here more often.  I just had a 2 day intense struggle with my wife and it forced me to contact you all again.

Okay, here it is in a nutshell. 

First, I saw one of you had a uBPDw.  I don't remember where the codes are but I think that means undiagnosed BPD wife. Right?  Okay, so if that's right then that's what I have as well.  My wife has never been willing to get psychological counseling so she could be diagnosed and that's a huge reason for my frustration.  We have been in ministry since we were married and it was recommended we go to this restoration place in 2001 where we did get counseling.  While there they pulled me aside and told me that she needed some help. In a nice way they said it to her too.  But she just saw them all as "quacks" and that they were way off base and had their own issues. 

So it's been like that for the past 15 years.  She believes everything she feels--people thinking things, me thinking things, people having evil motives and coming after her, she has no real friends and though she may warm up to someone and think they are great of a season, after awhile, sometimes even a year or two, something happens and suddenly that person is bad and abusive and their motives are selfish and intended to hurt her.  This drives me nuts especially when she gets mad (sometimes raging mad) at me for not believing her feelings, for not protecting her from this evil person, etc.

This has become more pronounced recently since she things my mom hates her and has it in for her.  I could go on a long time with this but for now let me say that my mom is an imperfect, sometimes very stubborn, sometimes opinionated and sarcastic person.  I know that about her and so I don't let it get to me.  In many ways, she's just poking fun at us.  Truthfully though, I know other more outspoken and controlling people and she is not like that.  She can be very sweet and I think she has some good motives and she tries to love us and give to us.  She's 88.  My dad died a year ago.  She's wounded and weak.  But my wife see's her as a controlling, selfish "queen" (she calls her).  I would listen to reasonable complaints about my mom if they could be at all substantiated.  She talks about my mom as if she's this evil conniving "b___" (excuse this non Christian sounding term but it fits here) and if I don't agree with her perspective and "protect" her from my mom's control and attacks (which I can never figure out what they are exactly) then I don't love her and I love my mom more than her. 

Okay, so as far as training, I've read Eggshells a few times, I read some of the Essential Family Guide.  I also have a counselor that I talk to once a month about this.  He's the first one who suggested her behavior is very much like a BPD.  So though she's never been diagnosed, the info in Eggshells and the Family Guide pretty much nails it for her. 

So my first question would be... .How can I possibly show empathy for her view about people that are so unbelievable far fetched and somehow still hold on to some truth.  The only way I've been able to deal with this kind of thing in the past is to just "agree with her", "lie to her that the person we are talking about is actually as evil as she believes" and then she finally lets it go.  Even if I say something like, "I'm so sorry that happened to you, that must have really been hurtful" she doubts my sincerity and as I said before, if I don't agree with her specifically she goes off on me.

Guys, I'm just so tired.  I really want to separate or something but I'm in ministry and we still have a child at home right now.  I want to keep things together as long as I can.  I really really wish she would get help but she's so adamantly against it.  I wonder sometimes if I should use some tough love and have an intervention.  I know my adult children and my child at home (she's 18 years old and a senior in high school) see strange things in her and that all get into arguments with her over really stupid things--usually when my wife is really acting like a child and is hung up on something that no one really understands.

Okay, thats all I have time for.  Thanks for reaching out to me.  What are your situations.  How do I find out what's going on with you all?  It does help knowing that others are having the same issues.

Thanks

[Tattered Heart]

I am a devout christian and as long as my BPD wife is willing to stay with me and doesn't do anything really stupid like have an affair or try to kill me or the kids, I am determined to stay married to her till death.  Having said that, I must admit it is VERY DIFFICULT much of the time.  I'm looking for others who are in a similar boat to connect with for support.  Please reach out if you are a person like this.

Thanks

I am in this exact situation. As a Christian my husband has not done anything that would cause me to have a biblical reason to leave. I struggle with this, but it is why I am on the improving board instead of the on the verge of leaving board. Some days I have to remind myself that I am choosing to be faithful to my values because leaving sounds so much better.

Living this lifestyle has weakened and strengthened my faith in Jesus. I go through periods where I doubt the existence of God because I cannot believe that he would let his daughter be treated this way. But then I remind myself that even if God never did one more good thing for me in my life, sending Jesus to die for me is more than enough. I am not of this world, but in it, and even though my daily walk is full of pain and hurt, one day I will be free from it all. There will be no more pain, no more tears, no more hurts. I have to rely on God so often throughout the day. I have to stay in his word for encouragement. I have to spend time in prayer and time with Him to know what it means to be truly loved becuase my husband is unable to love me the way he should. (I have a daily prayer scripture on my desk at work: Husbands, love your wives and never treat them harshly. Col 3:9). God is my sustenance (Ps 54:4). He is my portion (Ps 73:26) . He is who I find my fulfillment in.

I often think of Abigail (1 Sam). She lived with her husband Nabal. He was a mean guy yet she was able to remain submissive to him.  I often wonder if he had BPD and how she did it. What were her prayers like?  I think of Isaiah going up against Jezebel. She had many BPD traits (but probably more NPD/ASPD). These stories remind me that we are not wrestling with flesh  and blood. (Eph 6:12) There are spiritual forces out there working against my marriage and against me. When I remember, I try to take authority over those forces and use my God-given rights as an adopted child of God.

I believe that God is a God who heals. I believe that if my husband would just soften his pride and repent of his pride that God will rush in and heal him. Sometimes my husband gets just to the verge of it (I believe he is a Christian as much as someone with BPD can be a Christian) but then he backs off. It's in those moments that I know he is fighitng against something much bigger than his emotions and that this is something that only God can heal. I pray for that healing all the time. I pray that the HOly SPirit will teach my husband about llove, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Gal 5:22) Sometimes I see real progress. Sometimes it gets bad.

Sorry for the rambling. My faith is the center of my life and living with someone with BPD makes me even more passionate about the need for God. I hope "that God, the source of hope, will fill you completely with joy and peace because you trust in him. Then you will overflow with confident hope through the power of the Holy Spirit (Rom 15:13)."

[johndude49]

Thanks for sharing your situation Tattered Heart.  It is good to know that someone is striving to stay connected with God in this very difficult process.  Yes, I fall away many times and get caught up in the cycle of conflict that this board mentions.  I need a renewed vision that God will help me stay connected to him while practicing some of these principles.  Thanks for your encouragement.

[Stolen]

John,

Many similarities to what you post. Catholic here, I believed the words the priest spoke were the ones that mattered. Married 24 years at time of divorce. Two daughters - now 17 (HS Sr like yours) and 20. 

xW would also "turn" on people. Not in a luke-warm manner, but go from love to outright hate in a flash. This led me to reading about "Splitting" back around 2010, and then so much just made sense. I also appeased many of hate campaigns, relieved it was not me (They came for the Jews, but I was OK, I wan't a Jew. Then they came for the gypsies, but I was OK, I wasn't a gypsy. They came for the gays, but I was OK, I wasn't gay.  Then they came for me - and there was nobody left to call out to for help). 

It was finally my turn, and now that she had found a supporting actor (BFF) she filed for divorce and moved to separate, isolate, and eventually alienate my daughters from me. She has always rebuffed any suggestion of outside agency - mediation, psychologists, clergy, etc.  "Never tell a crazy person they are crazy" was one of her mantras referring to her FOO.

With the knowledge I have learned via reading and on this site, I now see the multi-generational aspect of this disorder. The parallels back two generations are strong, and the indications I see in my daughters are tragic to me.

Feel free to ask any questions, I have lived this for decades and continue to struggle to reconnect with my daughters. PM is fine too.

God Bless you and good luck.

[usn7251979]

Hello Everyone,  After reading these posts here, I know I'm in the right place.  I'm married 28 years, thankfully both of our children are grown.  Lately it seems my wife is getting worse and I'm becoming depressed and so glad I found you guys.  I am thinking I should consider going for therapy and with alittle luck I'll somehow get her there too.  She has gone with me before years ago but it never lasted when they always said they wanted to see her one on one for awhile.

[Lockjaw]

I have a uBPGF, and cannot see marrying her. I have been married and divorced twice. First wife cheated. Second, well there was sexual abuse of our son by her premarital son, and also some very questionable behavior. Suffice to say, had I hired a PI, I would have proven adultery in my state, so... .maybe I get credit there too.

All I can tell you is the shed blood of Jesus covers every sin. God won't disown you because you get a divorce. I am not criticizing, or judging, just saying.

I spent the last 2 marriages with very little good times. I think both had issues, and I am codependent, so I do as well. To make one work, both people have to work on it. You cannot work on it when one person is never wrong, and sadly, that is a BP to a T, in my experience. To take the abuse via the tongue, which the bible speaks to alot, is worse than a beating.

I have spent more time crying about this relationship than any other. I look at her, I see a beautiful woman, who often times, I love dearly and hate to be away from, and then, seemingly without warning, she changes into satan herself. I know she is not, but that is how it feels. I get so frustrated, I just want to scream.

I feel for you. Having gone through 2 divorces, I have no faith I could ever have a successful marriage, much less a relationship, and am probably damaged beyond repair from this one.

I have been watching Longmire on netflix and the more I watch it, the more I long to move out west, and start over, but I have 2 boys I have to raise. 

[Jeffery]

John-
Check out my posts, I am new here too. I have been receiving some great advice and, if nothing else, I am committed to changing my (our) situation for the better. From what I gather so far, it may need to get worse before it gets better. I am a bit afraid, I have to admit, but am going to hang in there. I am no longer going to take the abuse or lie and tell her what she wants to hear. I am going to set boundaries and request we interact in a positive and healthy manner. Again, there was some great tools given to me by some members, I hope you find them as helpful as I did. All the best to you and your situation, I know it is not easy!

[Wrongturn1]

So my first question would be... .How can I possibly show empathy for her view about people that are so unbelievable far fetched and somehow still hold on to some truth.  The only way I've been able to deal with this kind of thing in the past is to just "agree with her", "lie to her that the person we are talking about is actually as evil as she believes" and then she finally lets it go.  Even if I say something like, "I'm so sorry that happened to you, that must have really been hurtful" she doubts my sincerity and as I said before, if I don't agree with her specifically she goes off on me.

I get this one.  When you're new to implementing validation, it can seem hard to tell the difference between validating emotions and agreeing with what the BPD person is saying.  For me, I didn't really understand the difference until I read "When Hope is Not Enough" by Bon Dobbs.  He talks about how a BPD person's emotions are their reality.  So when your wife says "your mom hates me, judges me, and is out to make me look bad", it doesn't really matter whether she is factually correct - the important thing is that your wife is feeling hated and judged. 

You can validate those feelings without agreeing with her "facts".  Validation in this situation could look something like this:  "You are important to me, and I care about how you are feeling.  It sounds like you're feeling hated and judged; that must be awful.  If someone were hating and judging me, I'd probably feel angry, ashamed, and sad.  Here, let me give you a hug."

So you're not saying "yeah, my mom is evil".  Instead, you're identifying the emotion, normalizing it, and showing support.  This has been very helpful in my relationship.  It does take some practice though, and the Bon Dobbs book does a great job at further fleshing out the concept and providing a lot of examples.

[Grey Kitty]

So my first question would be... .How can I possibly show empathy for her view about people that are so unbelievable far fetched and somehow still hold on to some truth.

Start with what not to do:

Don't agree with her. It may quiet her down in the short term, but long term it only encourages the conflict to get worse, as you may have noticed. We call this validating the invalid.

Don't disagree either, or try to prove how "unbelievable" it is. I'm pretty sure you've seen how this only makes this worse, and that part is immediate. We call this invalidating her, which creates more conflict.

The straightforward solution is refusing to participate at all. AKA boundary enforcement. Try something like: "I won't discuss this with you now." (And whatever else you have to do to get away from her if she keeps chasing after you and trying to get you back on the topic!)

Right at the start, before she gets wound up, you might be able to simply change the subject to something else... ."Are you going to make those wonderful fish tacos again soon?"... .but likely it will require more effort because she will resist.

The more difficult and subtle solution is validation. This is tricky because while there IS something important and valid for you to validate, she's not speaking it out loud, leaving you to guess (risky!) or ask about it.

Consider the conflicts around with your wife about your mom. Her accusations are off base, no doubt. Your wife is pretty much inventing it. But she's inventing it to match her feelings, and those feelings are real. Perhaps she feels attacked by your mom. Perhaps she feels ashamed. You really don't know what she is feeling, but trust me, she IS feeling something.

Validation is a new skill for most of us, and it takes practice. If you are learning to ski, you don't go down the double black diamond slope your first day. At least if you do, you can expect a trip to hospital out of it!

Validating a pwBPD who is spitting mad at you about the feelings that have them upset is that hard, so don't be surprised if it doesn't go well.

Get practice validating other people's feelings; you will see that they respond well to it. It will help your relationships.

Work on validating your wife's feelings when she's not spitting mad. You can validate that she's happy, excited, nervous, or tired.

Work on validating feelings that aren't aimed at you. (Or your direct family!) If she's upset about something at work, or a neighbor, that's an easier one too.

And yes, you can work up to trying to validate your way out of a fight... .but don't be surprised if it doesn't go well.

[johndude49]

Thanks for the responses and ideas for how to improve my relationship with my uBPDw.  Things got real bad at the end of last year and she concluded that everyone in my family as mad at her and I was to blame for not "protecting" her.  She has been having conflicts with our grown children as well recently so pretty much everyone in her world, as far as she knew, was mad at her.  Anyways, I had "stopped" the validation thing last year cause it just got so unreal and so unbearable, I just told her I couldn't take anymore and she just needed to "stop" talking about the problem (for about 6 weeks).  So in the past week I've tried to validate "everything", and yes, have agreed with everything, just to calm her down.  Right or wrong it has worked.  She's much calmer now and she has stopped talking about divorce and about how awful I am to hurt her so bad.

I know I can't stay here forever so I need to start moving forward doing the "validation" things with her without agreeing with everything.  It's gonna be hard because honestly, it often doesn't seem to work with her, especially when she's really worked up about something.  For example, she'll start talking about all that my mom has done to hurt her and I'll try those comments like, wow that's really hard or that must really hurt, I'm so sorry that happened to you or that you are feeling that way.  But then she takes it another level and says things like "that's really selfish of her wouldn't you agree?"  She used this "wouldn't you agree" thing on 2 other people in the same conversation.  Here's where I get tripped up.  If I say, "no I don't agree", then she will start into why I should agree, have to agree, and if I don't agree then I'm part of the problem because I'm "clueless", or kind of stupid not to be able to see the things people are doing and saying to her that are so "crystal clear" to her. 

So any ideas of how to validate the pain she's feeling without "agreeing" with her conclusions that my mom is doing evil things to her because she's "controlling", "selfish", "loves me but hate's her"?  Because it seems the "agreeing" part is what she's really after for validation.  If I don't agree with her conclusion about my mom's evil "actions" and even her "motives" then to her I'm not empathizing, understanding, supporting, or whatever you call it.  Then the conversation will enter that "arguing" stage over what's real and what's not and that always ends up nowhere.  Even though we heard a counselor tell us both once that we should never judge someone's motives and I'll remind her of that comment and sometimes she backs off and other times she doesn't because it is such a "clear reality" in her mind. 

Okay, I'm rambling now but I hope you can hear what I'm saying.  What happens when the "validation of feelings" is just not nearly enough?

[Grey Kitty]

When your wife demands that you agree to something you don't believe to be true, your first steps are good ones.

When they don't work, and it is turning into an argument, it is time to cut your losses.

You might get her to "agree to disagree."

If not, as it is turning into an argument, it is time to leave the conversation. And if needed, leave the room, or even leave the house to get away from it instead of getting into a huge fight that won't help anything or resolve anything.

Understand--it isn't your job to correct her distorted view of reality. It is your job to NOT get into a fight with her over it. And don't take the bait that tries to pull you back into the fight.

If you are accused of not empathizing, understanding, supporting, or whatever.
If she says ":)o you agree?" and asks you "why not... ."
If she says you are stupid or clueless

Those are things she uses to bait you. They've worked before, so she will keep trying. Be strong. Don't take the bait.

[Me-Time]

My uBPDxw and I would get caught up in these arguments constantly. To take it further, if she would perceive something someone did or said (that I didn't perceive and I know didn't happen), at first I tried explaining otherwise. Of course, that didn't work. The next time I tried validating, and the more I validated, the more she would say "I wish you would just validate me." Then I ended up in an argument with her about the fact that I was validating! In addition, my xw would get caught up in the "you should've protected me" or "you should have defended me" thing (which would have been very difficult in the moment because it didn't happen and I didn't think what she thought so how could I defend against something I didn't perceive as she did)? But even when I would validate her as much as I possibly could through all of that, she would dig in her heels about the fact that I didn't defend her or protect her. And sometimes she would demand that I do something later to remedy her perceived injustice - "You call her up right now and tell her she... ." And when I wouldn't do that (because I'm not involving someone else in all this craziness), she would get hopping mad. Sometimes she'd threaten to do the calling, but she never did (probably because that defeats the purpose - it's me she wants to do the calling because it's a sign that I'm defending her). Before I knew that, though, I actually contacted other people to say, "Listen, if you get a text or call from... ." (which was embarrassing for me). The argument would eventually end, but my inability to take action on her perceived threat would come up repeatedly and add fuel to other fires, as well.

I came to the conclusion that I actually wasn't able to improve my relationship with my wife because she simply wasn't allowing me to. And though I decided not to continue (we're in the process of divorce), I'd still be interested in hearing suggestions (for my sake and others on this improving board) for what could have stopped the madness at the point where she was demanding I take action. What could I have done?