BPD mother

[Warmblood]

I am 65 years old and my mother is 86. All through my childhood she relentlessly stripped me of all self esteem. She continues to try to do this to this day. Until the last couple of years I hated almost everything about myself. I would have diagnosed myself with BPD but I have worked very hard, both on my own and with the help of therapy to heal my own issues and feel that I have done a great job.
I decided many years ago that the only way I could deal with her was to have minimal contact and refuse to rise to her baiting so I let her say whatever she wanted to and did not respond.But this is no longer working for me.I am thoroughly sick of putting up with her tantrums and disrespectful and abusive behaviour towards me and I now want to confront her about her unacceptable behaviour, not because I think she will change but because it feels important to me to stand up for myself. Indeed I did so today in a fairly low key way on the phone upon which she switched off and said she had to go and cook for herself (poor me).
There will be a response from her at some stage once she's had time to fester.
This is bringing up anger and fear in me as I wait for the anticipated attack. When this comes I want to stand my ground and tell her exactly how her behaviour makes me feel, that I am no longer prepared to accept it. Is this the best way to go? Her response is likely to be, fine, go, I don't care and I am under no illusions about how I am likely to feel about that.
But I need to disengage from her in order to progress my own life.

[Fie]

Hello Warmblood  

Welcome !
I am happy to see that you recognized some BPD behaviors in yourself yet you were able to overcome them.
I guess I could say the same for myself. My mum is BPD too.

A lot of (wise) members will tell you that it's probably not a good idea to go accusing your BPD loved one of the things they did wrong towards you. In the same sense it could be a bad idea to tell someone you think they have BPD.
I totally agree that telling them how you feel will not change their behaviors, on the contrary - and that it could worsen the relationship you are having with them. After all they are BPD. If they were mentally sane, they would not have done all of those unhealty things in the first place.
So it is insightful of you to recognize that your mother's response won't be that she takes ownership for her mistakes.

Yet I do seem to notice that you would like to tell her all of this to feel some sort of relieve, not because you'd wish her to change, but more out of a reason to 'set things right', to be able to feel like an adult, to stop feeling like the little kid you once were. Is that correct ?

If so, I can totally relate. Last year I sent my mum an email telling her how I felt my childhood was like. I was careful not to write out of a state of anger, but still, I wanted it out of my system.

Really I just wanted to feel like an adult. I wanted to stop being scared of her. I must say, I still am, to some degree. And I remember trembling over all of my body right after I sent off my email.
But I was so incredibly proud of myself, and I still am. The dynamics between us have changed from that moment on. And they will never be the same. Not for me, anyway. She from her part did not take any ownership for what she read I felt she had done. She phoned me some months later, telling me that I was probably very unhappy, and that was why I was projecting my unhappy feelings on her. I was blaming her because I had to find a scapegoat for my unhappiness.
She also told me she thought I was projecting, and I was the one with BPD. (At this point I realized she had been looking into BPD on the internet, otherwise she could never have known about the projecting BPD do. It felt kind of funny because I do not consider my mum very intelligent. At that point I thought, well well mother, you can be quite witty unexpectedly ;-))

So my mum's reaction was not ideal. But I kind of knew beforehand it was not going to be good. For me however life has changed quite a bit since than.  I have come to notice that it feels really good to have boundaries (I was never allowed to have them).
The contact with my mum is almost non existant since that email. But somehow, that's ok. I wish I had a loving mum and I wish we could have more contact. Life can get lonely sometimes without direct family. But I do not have a loving mum. I have a mum who does not have any empathy for me and who on the contrary has expressed in an indirect way that she wished I was unhappy. So no contact is actually not such a bad idea than.

So if you are willing to bear the consequences and if you would be acting out of the (for you) right state of mind, I would say go ahead and tell your mum how you feel. Personally for me I did it by email because I knew my mum was not going to listen otherwise. The dynamics of course are such that she has always been 'the boss' and I had to obey. To some degree those dynamics are still there, so a conversation about me telling her how it was for me to be treated inappropriately by her was unthinkable.
Your mum is older than mine, so maybe she does not have email. In this case you could consider to write her a letter (and maybe read it aloud for her if necessary).

In case you would go for this option, one thing I would be careful with, is to make sure you are not writing when feeling angry - or at least to not let your anger be reflected in your letter. I read my letter aloud to a very good friend who knew about my situation and who's a psychologist. After she said my email did not sound angry, but balanced, I sent it off.
Maybe you could consider to do the same. If you are still in therapy you  could also consider to show your letter to a therapist.

I am sure there will be other members with a lot of good input. I also realize that the way I handled things is not exactly good when you absolutely want to reduce and avoid conflict with your BPD. But in my case the contact with my mother was bad / very low already, so I felt I did not have a lot to lose.

Good luck and keep us updated if you want.
xx

[Notwendy]

Hi Warmblood,

I also have an elderly widowed mother with BPD. It is hard to remain non reactive to her behavior and also have empathy for an elderly woman who is alone- while maintaining boundaries.

You can say what you wish to her if it helps you. The problem is in expecting that she will understand that she is accountable for her behavior. If she really ever understood the impact of her behavior on her family, she would have done something about it. Although there is hope for pwBPD- it takes some personal work and therapy for any person to make personal changes. At 86- your mother's behaviors have been in place for decades. I don't know if change is realistic at this point. For me, finding peace for myself means I accept that my mother has a mental illness, is unlikely to change, and to not take her behavior personally. Peace also includes that I have boundaries in place for when she is verbally cruel.

I think it also helps to understand the victim triangle and the purpose of projection as well as emotional dysregulation. PwBPD can not manage difficult emotions and use these methods to protect themselves. This isn't on purpose- it is part of the disorder. For this reason, telling my mother what I think often has a boomerang effect- I may aim it at her, but she projects it all out. I think of this as emotional vomiting. Think of a little kid who ate too much and gets a stomach ache. Then they throw up. The little kid feels better, but then there is a big mess to clean up. It seems to work this way when we confront my mother. It doesn't do much good for her as she dissasociates, rages back at us, and acts as if what she did didn't happen.

There was one time though, when I just let loose- like you did. I had just had it and let loose with her. It felt good at the time. I meant it and I was mad. I didn't want to "keep the peace". She then painted me black to her relatives. So - we have the choice to say what we want, but we also have to be prepared for the consequences- your mother will do what she wants to do too.

What I have found to be more effective- than any action involving my mother- is to work on myself- through therapy, support groups. Your mother is unlikely to change- but you can make personal changes, deal with the issues of growing up with her. You can find some peace with yourself. I can manage my feelings around my mother. The things she says to me rarely bother me now. I have boundaries with her, not from my words to her but my actions. I don't get into dramatic discussions with her. I can even say no to her and deal with her response. None of this came from any change on her part- she is who she is, but from personal work on myself. I encourage you to post, use the lessons, and get a personal T if you think it will help. Working on you- is a better investment in your time and thoughts than working on her. And you are worth investing in. 

[Warmblood]

Notwendy and Fie. Thanks for your helpful insights. It's been a good while since my mother actually raised her voice to me or said anything really nasty because I made it clear that I would simply walk out the door if she overstepped the mark.  As I recall I only had to do it a couple of times before she got the message. She mainly confines herself now to withholding of any praise or admiration for anything I achieve. And that old favourite, the silent treatment, which is allied to the withholding of attention. I suppose I don't want to continue to play this You ignore me and I'll ignore you game any more. This tacit acceptance of what she does.
Perhaps I will confine myself to pulling her up immediately I feel uncomfortable with the way she spins the facts instead of letting it go unchallenged. At least then I will feel that she knows I have copped on to her, even if she carries on doing it. and I won't be festering for hours afterwards. Perhaps I will ask myself whether I would let anyone else speak to me/treat me like that and go from there.
Hopefully I will in time be able to remove her as the centre of my existence, which she clearly still is.
I need to divorce her so that I can form a healthy intimate relationship of my own, which I realise I have never been able to do, because she has always been my primary relationship despite the fact that I dislike her so intensely. She has done the same to my brother, only worse.

[Warmblood]

My mother waited a few hours before ringing me. At the time I had a visitor so I asked was it important and when she said no I said I would ring her back later. This made me feel good. When I rang her back it was just some totally silly piece of information she wanted to give me and we did not speak for long.
This morning she rang again asking me to come to see her. I asked her if she needed anything because I couldn't come over today to which she replied that she was very worried about something and couldn't discuss it on the phone. I told her I would come over tomorrow. This also made me feel good that I was able to say no and did not put aside my genuine reasons for not going over the minute she summoned me. My feel good soon turned to feelings of anger and then hopelessness. I know very well that there is no crisis and that she is just trying to manipulate me and trying to set up a drama. My brother, who is her carer, and is her normal source of drama is away at the moment It has been a long time since I have been sucked into her drama and yet she remains relentless in her attempts. It just makes me feel despair, like I am trapped, and it wastes my time. Not only the time I will spend with her tomorrow, but the time from now until then when I will struggle to do anything else because of my low level anxiety.I am currently reading The Primal Wound, by Firman and Gila,  which is a great book, I would highly recommend it.

[Harri]

Hi Warmblood and welcome.

But this is no longer working for me.I am thoroughly sick of putting up with her tantrums and disrespectful and abusive behaviour towards me and I now want to confront her about her unacceptable behaviour, not because I think she will change but because it feels important to me to stand up for myself.

You are finally, after decades, putting you and your needs first.  I get this.  It has nothing to do with the pwBPD hearing you or seeing your point of view or changing.  I doesn't even have anything to do with reducing or avoiding conflict.  It has everything in the world to do with empowering yourself and saying No!  Stop! to someone who has walked all over you for years.

I reached the same point as you and finally said no, stop, you are hurting me and I will not allow it anymore.  I was the best thing ever for *me*.  Conflict increased, she trashed me even more to family and friends but I knew to expect that and knew she was already trashing me anyway.  I expected that after I said no and stood up to her that my family was going to push even harder for me to back down, 'be nice' and apologize... .and I said no and stop to them too.

I had to do it for me.  I had been so beaten down and used for decades that I had nothing to lose except a way of life that was no longer working (never really did work actually). 

Saying No had nothing to do with them.  I had to learn how to form the words, hear myself say them and stand there in the storm.  It was powerful and worth it for *me*.

Obviously, as you have read from others, this approach is not for everyone, but it can work and it can be healing.  It depends on you and the situation.  I was not afraid of physical violence, or her turning my father and brother against me (she already did that) or trashing me to friends (already did that too).  I had no financial ties with her and no kids to deal with.  So it worked for me.

I also never tried to address the past with her.  For certain specifics, I wanted her to own her stuff and apologize, etc.  But I knew it would never happen and it would do me more harm than good in those instances to try, so instead I did it in the moment as each new instance arose and said no... .every. single. time.  There were arguments, fights, I would walked out, she would walk away, the whole bit.  But it was worth it and as I did it more and more my anxiety and fear decreased.  It took time, about a year and a half, but she eventually learned to keep her mouth shut around me.  What she did when i was not there?  Trashed me more, called me evil, etc... .  So I told my family to stop telling me and told them that since they chose to deal with her that they had to deal with her and not expect me to fix things for them.

It was worth it.  Your mileage may vary, so take what fits.  As for tomorrow?  Say No.  Say Stop.  Be prepared for her anger or hurt or drama or whatever.  Do it anyway if that is what feels right for you.  If you are going to do anything today, spend time anticipating things she will say or do and practice a response.  Practice your replies out loud so you can hear yourself saying the words.  tomorrow imagine a bubble around you so her words never penetrate you and allow yourself to respond.

it will be hard and scary and you will probably be nervous.  that is totally normal and to be expected  You are changing decades of learned behaviors so it will be hard.  Even if you decide to not say no, just practice not letting her words penetrate.  Remind yourself they are projections, that she has a disorder and what she says is really what she is thinking and feeling about herself.

okay... .so I did a bit of a rant.  Take what fits.

Be well and best of luck to you tomorrow!

[Warmblood]

Hi Harri, thanks for your input. There is no danger of my mother trashing me to friends, because she doesn't have any. As for family, there is only my brother and her MO has always been to drive a wedge between us, a divide and conquer thing. This doesn't work for her (or us) any more. And I am no longer sucked into the endless drama that goes on between the two of them.
I have no idea what she will do today, it depends on her mood, which fluctuates constantly. My aim for today is not to allow her mood to affect mine.
I have long ago given up addressing the past because she has a very selective memory and no clue about how her behaviour has affected my life over the years so I don't intend going there, but thanks for the reminder because it is so easy to be seduced by a pwBPD when they pretend to be sorry for what they have done. And of course when no absolution is forthcoming there usually follows an outburst of rage. Been there done that.
Like you, I intend to say no as each instance arises, with no explanation, no justification. Just No. And yes, I am nervous, but by now I think I'm familiar with her entire repertoire of tricks so nothing will come as a shock.
I will listen to what she is allegedly very worried about and then I will leave, without trying to fix it, or be drawn into it. My money is on some issue around my brother and how it is affecting her.

[Notwendy]

It's scary to say no, but after I did it a couple of times- and realized I could handle the reaction, it actually began to feel good- not in a mean way- it wasn't about her, but about me. It felt good to stand up for myself and not say yes out of FOG.

I think many of us are the type to try to say yes when we can. It is nice to be helpful, but when we betray our true feelings by saying yes when we mean no, that doesn't feel good to us- because it isn't being authentic. The goal is to say yes when we mean yes, and no when we mean no.

There was a reaction to saying no to my mother. We had been brought up to obey her. Absolute obedience and she was used to that. My father endorsed it as well. So when I said no, my mother painted me black to family members. So I did grieve the loss of the relationships with the people she painted me black to who chose to believe her. On the other hand, I realized that  if they truly cared about me, they would want to see me stand up for myself and so I had to let go of the wish that they did.

So, I said no and faced her reaction. But then, I realized that I had stood up for myself and that felt good. Now, I can hold on to that feeling when I need to say no to her. I think it helps to focus on myself - not JADE, and simply say "no, I do not wish to do this".