How do you help a BPD sufferer move away from victimisation?

[Janneke]

I feel that one of the main issues my sibling with BPD has is victimisation. From my perspective, my sibling's tendency to blame others and not take responsibility keeps Isaac "stuck".

Does anyone have tips for how to help BPD sufferers move away from this? I am wondering specifically what words I could say when we are in the middle of a conversation and it starts to shift toward blaming others. I'd also love to hear other strategies.

Thank you for any help here.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Janneke! 

Welcome! So glad you have joined us here, and you've started right off with a good and really hard question.

I feel that one of the main issues my sibling with BPD has is victimization.

Here is an article about the Karpman Drama Triangle which explains in great detail how a person, whether they are BPD or not, can fall into the victim role. It can help you with understanding, putting on those glasses which may help you see where he is getting stuck. Know that you cannot change him or fix him (we can only change ourselves), but as you gain the wisdom to begin seeing the drama play out, perhaps there are tools here that can help you aid him or help you to feel less of a victim when you listen to him.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

Has your sibling been officially diagnosed with BPD? Another really helpful tool is SET: Support, Empathy, Truth. Here is the link for this:

https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/04.htm

What are your thoughts when you read these? Looking forward to hearing more from you! Again, welcome to this family. 

 
Wools

[HappyChappy]

Hi Janneke

The best thing you can do is not support this behaviour, don't get involved. Change the subject, don't rescue them if at all possible. But also protect yourself by accepting that someone with BPD can not hold the blame. They will always project the blame away, but you don't have to accept that blame nor do you need to argue about it. Just do medium chill. This is where you are emotionless, don't engage, don't apologies but don't ignore.

[Notwendy]

I don't think you can change the way someone thinks. I have found this "victim" perspective to be the way they process their world. I found the Karpman triangle model to be very helpful- especially to keep myself from taking on the drama by playing one of the roles.

It is also helpful to me to understand that this is how they process- so I don't react as strongly to it.

The lessons on validation and JADE are very helpful. Not engaging in JADE has diminished the drama in my relationship with BPD mother.

Dealing with my own tendency to rescue and fix her has helped too. While she seems to want to be rescued, it also invalidates her. I have found that even a little advice can elicit a strong reaction from her " you don't think I can do this myself". So, ironically, not trying to help her is in some way better than helping sometimes.

Growing up, it appeared to me that my father did everything he could to make her happy and comfortable. She had everything she needed materially- a nice home, pretty clothes. Her needs came first and we kids were taught to do what she wanted. She was not held accountable for her behavior. We had to pretend it didn't happen.

Yet, to hear her speak about it- she recalls feeling invalidated, being treated terribly by my father and us kids. At some level, she is correct- we may have had to behave in a certain way around her, but we didn't like her, and she surely had to sense that. However, she didn't see the connection between her behavior toward us and those feelings.

When we "rescue" we don't really help change the perspective, and we are acting as part of the drama triangle. Medium chill is a term for being non-reactive to their emotions and outbursts. I think it helps when we remain stable and calm. But I also think it helps for us to consider our impulses to help- and if they are truly help or enabling. Helping people when they want it is a kind thing, but enabling them is not.

[livednlearned]

Does anyone have tips for how to help BPD sufferers move away from this? I am wondering specifically what words I could say when we are in the middle of a conversation and it starts to shift toward blaming others. I'd also love to hear other strategies.

I have found some success with validating questions.

Things like, "I can see why that would be hard. What would you like to do to make it better?"

Or, "I would feel the same if that happened to me. What do you think caused the problem?"

It can also help to do some positive shaping, like "I admire you for being brave. I would have a hard time walking into a dance class like you did."

Or, "I remember one time you solved things by doing xyz, and I admired you for that. Do you think the same strategy might work here?"

[Janneke]

I have found some success with validating questions.

Things like, "I can see why that would be hard. What would you like to do to make it better?"

Or, "I would feel the same if that happened to me. What do you think caused the problem?"

It can also help to do some positive shaping, like "I admire you for being brave. I would have a hard time walking into a dance class like you did."

Or, "I remember one time you solved things by doing xyz, and I admired you for that. Do you think the same strategy might work here?"

Thanks for the link, and those two questions in particular. I will tuck those in my pocket!

[Janneke]

Hi Janneke

The best thing you can do is not support this behaviour, don't get involved. Change the subject, don't rescue them if at all possible. But also protect yourself by accepting that someone with BPD can not hold the blame. They will always project the blame away, but you don't have to accept that blame nor do you need to argue about it. Just do medium chill. This is where you are emotionless, don't engage, don't apologies but don't ignore.

I am still learning about this disorder. Is it possible, given enough therapy, for BPD sufferers to begin to recognize that they often play the victim, and halt that cycle? For instance, therapists are often able to help people overcome black-and-white thinking by making them aware of it - cognitive behavior therapy I think - and teaching them metacognitive skills to realize when they are  thinking in black and white, and how to see the "Gray". Are BPD sufferers truly unable to realize they are not always victims?

[Rock Chick]

Is it possible, given enough therapy, for BPD sufferers to begin to recognize that they often play the victim, and halt that cycle? Are BPD sufferers truly unable to realize they are not always victims?

Honestly I think it depends on the BPD (person to person case by case). With my bf's severely BPD etc mother I dont think it is possible for her to stop playing the victim. She has been going to a psychologist for just under a yr, had counseling etc when she was apart of Interact for 8 yrs and marriage counseling back in the day and NONE of that has changed things. She still always plays the victim and sees everyone as the bully/abuser/etc. She seems to lack the ability or chooses not to take responsibility for her actions, words, choices, behaviors, etc. If she says she is sorry its because someone tells her to and its very clear she doesnt mean those sorrys. If she says it without anyone telling her to say sorry she at most only partly means it and it has to serve her some purpose/she has to get something out of it (like money, going to a place she wants, getting her cigars n soda, etc). Now look at my sister and she is able to recognize most the time that she is not the victim all the time and she doesnt play the victim much anymore.

[livednlearned]

Is it possible, given enough therapy, for BPD sufferers to begin to recognize that they often play the victim, and halt that cycle?  

Part of the disorder means having intense emotions that flood cognitive processes (feelings = facts), which leads to distorted thinking (I'm the victim).

DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) is a version of CBT, that can help with reality testing.

So yes, with therapy, it is possible to learn self-awareness about how their emotions lead to thoughts, and how those thoughts might be distorted.

Part of doing that kind of therapy is being empathetic to the emotional experiences, to help with emotional arousal, so that the part of the brain that deals with rational thought and problem-solving can remain functional. When the fight or flight reactivity is activated, it makes it hard to think straight.

That's why validation and empathy can be helpful. They can prevent emotional arousal from escalating and the train going off the tracks.

[Notwendy]

I think it depends on the pwBPD.

I don't think we- or anyone else- can help them if they are not motivated to do the therapy and work itself.

In my mother's case, I think not. I know that she has had psychiatric care for decades, but she doesn't accept that she has BPD. Her perspective is that it is the fault of something else, or someone else. She may have accepted other labels such as anxiety or depression, but to her, it is due to something/someone else.

The problem with the perception of victim is that it assumes that the person is not accountable for their actions- something/someone else is doing something to them. So long as one thinks they are not a contributor to the problem, they may not be motivated to see their part in it.

[Rock Chick]

I don't think we- or anyone else- can help them if they are not motivated to do the therapy and work itself. Her perspective is that it is the fault of something else, or someone else.

I couldnt agree more with Notwendy. If they the person with BPD are not willing to 1) recognize they have BPD (or at very least that something is off for lack better wording 2) get help like dbt 3) do their part with or without dbt etc then they will always think they are the victim or play that card and they will always blame everything on something and esp someone else. They will always take feelings as facts and not facts as facts. Its like some BPDs suffer from not my fault syndrome idk. Like said i think its a BPD by BPD case by case type situation. Ive seen both sides of the coin my sister on one side my bfs mother the other... .one seeks help does their part gets better the other does not get help/do their part still plays victim n there is like lil to no positive progress etc.