Do they just forget?

[seeperplexed]

Hey all... .about 2 months into No Contact and actually feeling the best I've felt yet. I'm 3 1/2 months out from the breakup itself, so anyone reading this who is fresh, it's the most difficult emotional obstacle I've ever dealt with, but here I am, and much better.

Luckily for me, my cheating and lying BPDex moved to LA (across the country) about 2 months ago. My replacement lived here with me in Ohio and I haven't spoken with him or seen him thank God. I figured she was just gonna drop him on his head when she left. Turns out they are dating. I am no longer jealous, I pity him immensely. She is lying to him, and my ex and I even slept together after our breakup, which certainly he doesn't know. My main concern and question is... .do you all think she has simply forgotten the good times that transpired in our relationship? Or has she coped by considering everything I did to be "bad" and splitting it all? She seemed to straddle the line between understanding how insane she was and completely falling victim to it anyway.

It's almost as though she could see herself but she could not stop herself. It was like I was dealing with an entirely different person. I just wonder how she is so able to put 15 months of connection behind her. I understand it was different from her. It's likely I was cheated on from the beginning and I was certainly lied to, but I think just incidentally, she ended up falling in love with me. It's likely she didn't even want to, but it just so happened that way. Do these people sort of live life in a way that allows them to disassociate from painful emotions? Or do they go to extremes after the fact?

[Julia S]

They can dissociate in what's called detached protector mode. It's what they feel as numbing out, and they likely spend most of their time this way. It's convincing to those around them as normal behaviour, so good that it often fools psychotherapists.

In addition, whatever mood/stage she's in now, she will most likely selectively remember things which support that, and forget those that don't.

If she had come to love you and to realise that, it may have caused her to self-sabotage and run away rather than stay and risk you abandoning her.

[Hisaccount]

I had often thought about this too. No they don't forget. My ex can bring up every single bad thing I have ever done and quite a few I haven't done.

Over the years trying to fix or build a relationship with her she often said she will never forget those things. So I would ask, then how can we move on?
She said that they will always be there but time will push them from the front of her mind to the back.

In my case every time we talked about why she is divorcing me it is a different answer. Stuff she has never mentioned before, stuff that I had no idea bothered her and stuff that just never happened have all been pulled to the front of her mind to help her do what she has decided she needs to do.
I have seen this over the years quite a few times but never with the resolve of filing for divorce.

She does this with every aspect of her life. She wanted to live in the midwest and named 1000 reasons, now she hates it here and names 1000 reasons.

Others call it painted black, or split black. I say the switch has flipped.
All those things you felt with her were real to you. Maybe somehow they believe it too, but once the switch flipped they start constructing or maybe focusing is a better word, reasons to not be with you, instead of reason to be with you.

There is no road map to how they process these feelings.

[seeperplexed]

Detached Protector mode, upon further reading, totally sounds like the way she looked/acted the two separate times I found out about infidelity. I was completely losing my mind with devastation and she looked absolutely flat and emotionless. In retrospect, it's sort of chilling.

[Warcleods]

It's good you are doing better!

Q: My main concern and question is... .do you all think she has simply forgotten the good times that transpired in our relationship? Or has she coped by considering everything I did to be "bad" and splitting it all?

Would that change anything at all?  Let's assume she did remember the good times.  How would you know that unless she told you?, and if she did tell you, what could you possibly achieve by having this information knowing everything else you know about this person?  I think its a valid question, but a question that shouldn't be entertained by you because that would require that you engage her and try to gain reason and logic.  It seems like you know how that will play out with her.  As far as her being insane, that's probably a good adjective to describe how ignorant these people are of how their actions affect other people.  If people cannot predict how their actions affect others, then talking the talk is just that because what they say versus what they do are on opposite ends of the spectrum.  Parroting and word salad best describe BPD.  They like to portray themselves as empathetic, concerned individuals but it's just ploy and you can only follow people by their actions.  You may forget what someone said, what someone did, but you will never forget how they made you feel. 

[Duped 1]

Mine sure seems to have forgot. Moved on in a heartbeat with the new guy after being w me for two years and never looked back after heavy pressure to marry her for about a year at one point. Turned her kids against me when I lashed out via email. I cannot comprehend this in any way as she knew how heartbroken I was but just doesn't seem to understand that. Absolutely zero empathy or accountability for her actions. It's like she's not even human. I've never seen anything like it and hopefully never will again! I had no idea people could completely lack empathy. She screamed at me while I was having a breakdown. It's like my tears pissed her off more. Pure insanity. There should be a special place in hell reserved for this woman,

[Pretty Woman]

I don't think they forget. I think they are able to "compartmentalize" in ways a non-BPD can't fathom. Everything is one extreme to another: Detach/Attach. As long as they are attached to something, that is their main focus and they are able to detach from you and put their entire focus on that one thing for their immediate needs.

I know my ex was racked with guilt sometimes even years later (and we are talking 5-10yrs later) after betraying someone. She would break down like she JUST betrayed them, that very day. I will never fully understand how that works. I think that is what is so baffling and hard.

Other posters have commented "what does it really matter" and I understand where they are coming from, but I also understand where you are coming from. It hurts to be betrayed and it hurts to think the times YOU felt were good must not of mattered to your significant other.

I'm telling you right here, right now. It mattered. It mattered because it meant something to YOU.

Her thoughts/feelings are hers and she is disordered. You cannot help her, you cannot rationalize her disordered thoughts.

But you CAN be kind to yourself and respect your feelings. If the good times mattered to you, cherish those. I think we all had some great times with our exes. That is what makes detaching so hard, the good times. The reality however is in their actions. When they coldly leave and cut us out.

That is their true nature and core of who they are. Sometimes you need to look at the actions to push the good times back in your memory so you can move forward.

[seeperplexed]

I don't think they forget. I think they are able to "compartmentalize" in ways a non-BPD can't fathom. Everything is one extreme to another: Detach/Attach. As long as they are attached to something, that is their main focus and they are able to detach from you and put their entire focus on that one thing for their immediate needs.

Thank you for this comment. My ex cited compartmentalization as her technique for moving past me. I guess I didn't understand it, and I likely never will. There are moments that I wish so much that I could do the same thing, but what I realize is that the pain manifests for her in different ways. Just because one doesn't consciously process the pain, (the way I might be) doesn't mean it doesn't reside deep within the recesses of the subconscious. It creates different kinds of problems that are presumably more difficult to combat, as the difficult emotions haven't truly been felt enough to pass through. The pain I'm feeling is just part of the healing process.

[Pretty Woman]

They are in a constant state of nothingness. Nothing ever turns into SOMETHING. We have the ability to make friendships and some, if we are lucky last a lifetime. Nothing lasts a lifetime for these people. It's a perpetual state of push-pull and agony. Without treatment they will likely never know anything better.

But we will. 

[Julia S]

I don't think we should downplay the pain felt by their 'victims' though. Some of the people posting here are suicidal after quite short relationships with pwBPD.
Yes, we can heal and move on, but they increase our hurt often by moving on much more quickly. And I read a forum the other night where pwBPD were posting, discussing how they could make people fall in love with them, sometimes just as a game. They were quite callous about it, with no empathy or regret, or sympathy for those they were hurting. A few months ago I had a lot of sympathy for pwBPD, but it's rapidly diminishing. In all honesty, I have more sympathy for those they hurt.

[hurting300]

I don't think we should downplay the pain felt by their 'victims' though. Some of the people posting here are suicidal after quite short relationships with pwBPD.
Yes, we can heal and move on, but they increase our hurt often by moving on much more quickly. And I read a forum the other night where pwBPD were posting, discussing how they could make people fall in love with them, sometimes just as a game. They were quite callous about it, with no empathy or regret, or sympathy for those they were hurting. A few months ago I had a lot of sympathy for pwBPD, but it's rapidly diminishing. In all honesty, I have more sympathy for those they hurt.

The victims pain gets down played a lot here. I question the sanity and willingness for some here to understand what we went threw. I want mine to never remember anything about me.

[Duped 1]

I have a lot more sympathy for those they hurt as well. Mine moved on so fast. Like it meant nothing and I never knew her at all after all I've invested in her. Of course it was never enough... .

[lovenature]

They don't forget, they just make up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment-just like during the relationship, and it is their reality of how things were that they remember. Feelings=facts to a PWBPD.
They have various psychological defences to protect them from having to feel intense emotions: projection being quite popular.

[Duped 1]

So Lovenature are you saying they remember a delusional version of the past but not what actually happened?

It's interesting that mine used to tell me not to tell her how she felt and argue her feelings when I would consistently argue the facts of what happened. Not how she felt about it. It was maddening how she couldn't recall what actually happened but only versions that made her look better and me look like crap. Pure insanity!

[troisette]

My ex used to tell me that when he'd had an unhappy relationship, any type of relationship - romantic, professional or familial - he found the best way of dealing with it was to cauterise his feelings. I guess this is an extreme way of compartmentalising.

But although he said this, he still talked a lot about those people, seemingly unaware that his feelings were not cauterised.

I've been nc for 15 months now and have no idea whether he tried to cauterise his feelings for me. We live in a small town and some recent encounters followed by emails, cause me to believe that he's trying to pull me back in, covertly and on his terms.

I am not entirely detached but nowadays the ways he sets about wooing me are clear. I understand why I was vulnerable to his charm when I fell for him; I now see beyond the mask and I am sad for him, sad for me too. On the other hand, I am grateful because I now have the BPD gift and am not tempted to renew the relationship.
 
It takes time, it's not easy but the emotional insights are huge.

[seeperplexed]

But although he said this, he still talked a lot about those people, seemingly unaware that his feelings were not cauterised.

Crazy you say that, I noticed something very similar in my ex. It's so awful looking back, as she would discuss ex's, they seemed so distant, almost as though she forgot about them entirely. But she could remember a particular song she heard with a particular ex, no problem, and would mention them... .but never have any emotional insight on what she learned from the relationship and she always had a one-sided stance on them. She was the victim. I see now this is not unique to her. I used to make her tell me something she liked about her ex's because it made me very uncomfortable. My gut knew all along.

[lovenature]

So Lovenature are you saying they remember a delusional version of the past but not what actually happened?

Exactly! Otherwise known as gas lighting, but they aren't intentionally doing it to manipulate someone to gain something, they truly do believe their version of the past.

[Duped 1]

Lovenature-Does their version of the past ever change? And if so, how might this happen?

[lovenature]

Does their version of the past ever change? And if so, how might this happen?

Hey duped

Yes it changes, it all depends on their current emotion of the moment, this is why you can be painted black while they are with another attachment, then when you become the best "option" they will paint you white again and try to have a recycle-sometimes YEARS later.

[steelwork]

Exactly! Otherwise known as gas lighting, but they aren't intentionally doing it to manipulate someone to gain something, they truly do believe their version of the past.

I just want to point out, because it does matter, that what you're talking about is not gas lighting. Gas lighting is a form of manipulation, a kind of psychological abuse, in which one person intentionally causes another person to question his or her perceptions of reality. Someone could have distorted, self-serving or self-protecting memories without having any malicious intent.

[lovenature]

Gas lighting is part of a PWBPD's psychological defences, as I said it is not intentional to manipulate on their part, but when someone makes up their own version of past reality that differs from what actually occurred, regardless of the motivation, it is termed "gas lighting". Their illness also causes them to hurt the ones they love the most, they don't intentionally do this to gain something either, but it is part of their defences.

[steelwork]

The term gets misused around here to mean what you are thinking of, but that's not correct. It's named after a movie in which a husband convinces his wife she's going crazy. What you are talking about is just memory distortion.

This is gaslighting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

Note also in the article that it's a tactic of narcissists and sociopaths, which is why it's important to use the term correctly in this setting.

(I'm nerdy enough to have seen the movie!)

[lovenature]

Results of something in reality are what they are, a good example is how NPD traits cross over with BPD, the difference is the intent but the results are the same.

[steelwork]

I think essentially we agree about what's happening, and that's the important thing. However... .

Results of something in reality are what they are, a good example is how NPD traits cross over with BPD, the difference is the intent but the results are the same.

That's sort of why it's important to use the correct term. Because NPD and BPD get confused. Intent can indeed be essential. For instance, there's a difference between "kill" and "murder." When you tell people they are being "gaslit," that means they are being intentionally deceived in order to undermine their sense of reality. Now, you may have your own broader definition of the term, in which intent is not implied, but using your own definitions only adds to the confusion in an already confusing situation. I pointed it out because the whole question of intent (and the confusion of sociopathy and NPD and vs. BPD) is often an issue on this board.

[DPG]

Before my ex wife and I got married she had broken up with me, slept around, told me that with a smile on her face, and I broke down in front of her while she was trying to comfort me. I ended up going no contact and she reached out 3 months later wanting to get married and stupid
me agreed. I think we all have our own abandonment issues here. But I remember brining up my breakdown a couple of times and she would tell me how horrible it was or to shut up because she felt bad. Yes we both wanted the divorce and yes I was a drunk ass sometimes to cope with marriage issues but I did try to reconcile. And I told her that there's no way that we could be friends because of what happened after our last break up. (She always tried to friend zone me because of our history)Then I was completely cut out of her life. She changed her number and everything. This was about 14 months ago and I foolishly decided to snoop around social media this month and saw a thanksgiving picture with some guy sitting around the corner from her at the table who's probably my repalacement. It TORE me wide open again. I'm doing better but got back on meds and therapy this month. Keep in mind I was her husband for 4 years and not just a boyfriend who beat her like she's had before. She is definitely the cut off type. She brought out the worst in me and I suppose I caused her to cut herself again even though it was a problem before. My point is that these people are seriously tormented and will try to forget but can they really forget? If they did forget how are we painted so black? I'm working on acceptance and forgiveness right now. I hope to see her as a friend in the future but this damage they cause us is horrible to the point we're we want to die sometimes and takes long term recovery. We must take care of ourselves even if it's in baby steps and keep positive attitudes. A lot easier said than done but it is a must. 

[nylonsquid]

That is their true nature and core of who they are. Sometimes you need to look at the actions to push the good times back in your memory so you can move forward.

Well said. I tend to believe that the good and bad are equally them and neither one exists without the other. In this way it was the only way I could find acceptance. Their black and white thinking which makes up their personality which in turn their perception is what we struggle with because we get the white first and fully embrace it but the black is so disorienting we try talking ourselves into believing its not there because its soo black to us. But I've come to understand and believe they are the same thing and completely dependent on each other. So I do cherish the good times but only when I look at it as not being possible without the bad. Its one polarizing package that one has to embrace as a whole to find peace, just like they need to do. To embrace their forgotten self. The only way for them to feel whole and completeness otherwise they will be dissociating and "forgetting"... whatever that really means. I think they're just strong defense mechanisms of survival, hence ego drive (self image maintenance).

[Duped 1]

Do they ever get triggered by seeing you and then reach out? I just saw mine about an hour ago in traffic and I know she saw me. I have lots of anxiety now and honestly was hoping to hear from her. She used to text constantly. It's been 3 mos NC

[lovenature]

Do they ever get triggered by seeing you and then reach out?

Yes they do, it usually depends on whether they have a suitable replacement or not.
Stick to NC, it is very painful but does get better, unlike going back on the rollercoaster through hell.