17yrs in-- admitting she isn't capable of a relationship

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Finally ready to listen to my therapist and everyone around me who has been telling me to get away.

My wife is high functioning and in therapy, but she is not (in the words of my therapist) "capable of an integrated relationship" with me.

She's been doing DBT for ~5-6 months and has improved. These improvements have given me hope, but her essential inability to be in a committed relationship of mutual obligation hasn't changed.

I've learned a lot and have done EMDR sessions to establish distance. I can now clearly see her pattern of establishing and destroying connection with me. I used to think that if she committed herself to being in the family we could have a good relationship. I now understand that she's just doesn't know how to be close without feeling like she's losing herself sooner or later, and then attacking or escaping in some way to establish autonomy.

We have two children. I have been the primary caregiver for some time.

I'm meeting with my therapist for an extra session tomorrow morning. I have to decide what to do about living arrangements. We live in a rural area and I have no family or friends up here. She is not a very helpful domestic partner, but she is help, and I'm both working and taking classes to start a new career. I do not have money to move out now, and I do not know that she has money for a place that is suitable for the children to stay. I used to think it would be impossible to live with her without at the very least being friendly and having sex, but I'm finally so burned and aware of her patterns that I thing I could manage for a little while.

My concern is not fighting--we've stopped fighting and the relationship has actually improved dramatically in the last few months. My concern is that we get along very well. My concern is maintaining prudent distance.

I'll look at the readings section and continue to learn. I've learned quite a bit about BPD in the last year. I've been going to some al-Anon meetings.

[c_craig_k]

Finally ready to listen to my therapist and everyone around me who has been telling me to get away.

My wife is high functioning and in therapy, but she is not (in the words of my therapist) "capable of an integrated relationship" with me.

She's been doing DBT for ~5-6 months and has improved. These improvements have given me hope, but her essential inability to be in a committed relationship of mutual obligation hasn't changed.

I've learned a lot and have done EMDR sessions to establish distance. I can now clearly see her pattern of establishing and destroying connection with me. I used to think that if she committed herself to being in the family we could have a good relationship. I now understand that she's just doesn't know how to be close without feeling like she's losing herself sooner or later, and then attacking or escaping in some way to establish autonomy.

We have two children. I have been the primary caregiver for some time.

I'm meeting with my therapist for an extra session tomorrow morning. I have to decide what to do about living arrangements. We live in a rural area and I have no family or friends up here. She is not a very helpful domestic partner, but she is help, and I'm both working and taking classes to start a new career. I do not have money to move out now, and I do not know that she has money for a place that is suitable for the children to stay. I used to think it would be impossible to live with her without at the very least being friendly and having sex, but I'm finally so burned and aware of her patterns that I thing I could manage for a little while.

My concern is not fighting--we've stopped fighting and the relationship has actually improved dramatically in the last few months. My concern is that we get along very well. My concern is maintaining prudent distance.

I'll look at the readings section and continue to learn. I've learned quite a bit about BPD in the last year. I've been going to some al-Anon meetings.

[sad but wiser]

Hello Craig,
  Wow!  That is a very difficult situation!  It sounds like knowledge has been power in your case.  For me,  it took awhile to accept what I knew and give up the hope I had held for so long that if I could just say or do the right thing, the problems would be solved.  Sounds like you have been going through a similar process.
  I have only one practical technique you could try in order to keep from falling back into old patterns.  Can you visualize her as she is emotionally?  I mean that when you look at her, you learn to see her as a toddler.  I got pretty good at that after awhile,  and it helped me a lot.  I was able to be more patient and have lower expectations.  I wasn't very bothered that I wasn't respecting him as an adult.  Emotionally, he isn't one.  You might give it a try.  Good luck!

[c_craig_k]

For me,  it took awhile to accept what I knew and give up the hope I had held for so long that if I could just say or do the right thing, the problems would be solved.

I have only one practical technique you could try in order to keep from falling back into old patterns.  Can you visualize her as she is emotionally?  I mean that when you look at her, you learn to see her as a toddler.  I got pretty good at that after awhile,  and it helped me a lot.  I was able to be more patient and have lower expectations.  I wasn't very bothered that I wasn't respecting him as an adult.  Emotionally, he isn't one.  You might give it a try.  Good luck!

Thank you. I can relate. I spent so long thinking if she'd just "see" things the way everyone else seemed to see them, she'd see we could have a good thing.

Haven't thought of her as a toddler, but I did have an epiphany last week in a joint therapy session. She got very resentful and defensive out of the blue and it continued throughout the session. It even un-nerved the therapist. I had this flash--"this person is not your peer." Emotionally she simply isn't my peer. Not sure about toddler, but 12-14 year old, sure.

[sad but wiser]

Well, there you go... .maybe try that.  Aim for 12 yrs.  Your instinct kicked in just fine!  No, she is not your peer.  And that is not your fault.  You weren't together when she stopped growing.  Knowing this may fill you with compassion, but your children need you to set those firm boundaries.  There is no room in the life of a person with BPD for anyone else's needs.  That definately includes their own children.  You are a single parent with an additional child who has legal rights to bully your children.  The courts are not prepared to deal with these situations.  I am glad you found this site.  It is a place of sanctuary to many.

[bestintentions]

c_craig_k,

Thank you for posting your story.  Coming out of 25 years with someone who's high functioning myself... .I can say I find your words pretty disheartening.  My therapist has described my stbx as "pretty self-aware" which gave me hope for her future (with or without me).  Can you give us a little more color on why you chose to give up after you've seen progress from her with DBT?  The reason I ask is... .most stats I've read point to the 1-2 year range of having the most significant impact with DBT.  With 10 years of therapy the success rate is very high (I think near 90% "recover".  Thanks for any reply... .not many stories match yours here that I've read so far.

bi

[vortex of confusion]

My concern is not fighting--we've stopped fighting and the relationship has actually improved dramatically in the last few months. My concern is that we get along very well. My concern is maintaining prudent distance.

This is a tough one for sure. Ex and I were together almost 18 years before he moved out. The last couple of years were fraught with discontent and fighting. The only way to keep from fighting was for me to take the lead. As long as I treated him like a child and had very few expectations or demands, we could get along just fine. I took care of everything and thanked him profusely for any small thing that he did. If I didn't thank him and listen to him as a parent would listen to a child, he would get difficult. Before he moved out, I was a single parent with an obstacle in the house. Now, I am just a single parent.

And then. . .I just couldn't do it any more. We went to one counseling session together and the therapist told me to stop putting him the box of "petulant child" and told him to step up and take some initiative. That didn't work because taking him out of the child box made it impossible for me to sit by and keep my mouth shut.

Can you set up separate living/sleeping spaces? I moved out of the bedroom and moved as much of my stuff out of there as I could so that I didn't have to interact with him as much. I slept on the couch. There was one time when he said I could sleep in the bedroom and he would take the couch. I woke up to him crawling in bed with me. So, I stayed on the couch until he moved out.

Try to find reasons for the two of you to not be home at the same time.

There are also some really good communication tools on the other relationship boards too.

[c_craig_k]

c_craig_k,

Thank you for posting your story.  Coming out of 25 years with someone who's high functioning myself... .I can say I find your words pretty disheartening.  My therapist has described my stbx as "pretty self-aware" which gave me hope for her future (with or without me).  Can you give us a little more color on why you chose to give up after you've seen progress from her with DBT?  The reason I ask is... .most stats I've read point to the 1-2 year range of having the most significant impact with DBT.  With 10 years of therapy the success rate is very high (I think near 90% "recover".  Thanks for any reply... .not many stories match yours here that I've read so far.

bi

bestintentions,

Sure . . . a few reasons I've decided to end it.

1--Generally, my wife is not committed to the relationship. It is a release valve to her to imagine not having a family at all. She states the marriage is over and has been over for a long time, but "she doesn't know what may happen." One foot in, one foot out.
2--She's a liar and a cheater. Mostly online, twice with the same guy in real life.
3--She's just generally nasty and unhelpful. It is far too much work to manage living with her and she gives very little back. She is no longer exactly verbally abusive, but she's a person who will twist emotional knives quite casually. She's been very abusive in the past and she's not a safe person.

[tammym1972]

Interesting how you mention the BPD person is like a child. I hadn't thought of it before but that sounds like my ex live in boyfriend of almost four years. Looking back I think he has the mental capacity of about a 14 year old. The way he treated his boys, ages 10 and 8, was really odd. He only had them every other weekend and half of the summer. Anyway he would go on about how they don't like him, that they wont have to see them a anymore after they are 18. He rarely showed them love or affection. He yelled at them all the time over the littlest thing. I'm the one that took care of them basically 90% of the time.

Also he got to where he bullied me quite a bit. Reminded me of the bullies I knew in 8th grade!

[lovenature]

PWBPD typically have the emotional maturity of a 3 year old; so confusing and hurtful to see this from an adult. They never successfully went through abandonment depression and became an autonomous individual with a sense of self. They fear abandonment so much that their whole lives revolve around maintaining an attachment.