Dropped on my head, left without a home and daughter Pt. 4

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Having healthy boundaries... living your life.  VERY GOOD.

Question about boundaries: My exGF asked me if I would pick her and my daughter up from the airport when they return in a few days.

My feeling is this is a good sign. At least she wants me there - or at least is okay with me picking her and my daughter up and spending time with me.

I would never think twice about this before - of course I would any time.

But in this situation (me being kicked out) I almost feel like going out of my way to help her is rewarding bad behavior. After all, she chose to be a single Mom and kick me out of her life and my daughter's life. She booked a ticket and took Christmas with my child away from me. And I go to the airport to help her do that?

Seems wrong somehow.

Doesn't showing up to help her put me in a subservient / lesser role? Like "sure I'll be there for you whatever you do to me! Kick me around some more!"

Is this a place to put a boundary?  Or am I overthinking things? Maybe the fact  that she wants me to pick them up is a "pull signal" and I should just go with it for now?

I texted her on Saturday (which is when Germans celebrate Christmas): "Merry Christmas to you and M".

Her response two days later was:

"No Wifi, but everything is fine. We will be back 12/29/2016. I don't have any cash with me, the visa to get into the country was more than I thought (so I couldn't pay extra for Wifi)"

That was it. Basically she was explaining why she hadn't kept in touch like she promised. I think she's telling the truth, but that stung a bit.

No "Merry Christmas to you, too" or "M says Merry Christmas" or anything like that.  Very hurtful. Absolutely no empathy at all for me. It's almost like I don't even register as a person.

My fear is that I fall into the "supportive guy" role, help her and go places with her, buy groceries and carry them upstairs, etc. - all the things I did before - but we never really get back together.  And I get stuck permanently in the role of "helper guy around the corner" even though I don't get the benefits of a relationship for me.

My only reason for helping her with the day-to-day stuff is to be there so we can rekindle what we had before and try to reconcile.

Should I place some firm boundaries on this helping behavior?

Part of me thinks, "Her biggest gripe was that you couldn't be counted on and didn't help her, now you can show her how helpful you really are - and that may warm her heart and maybe she'll reconsider when she sees how committed you are".

On the other hand, I sometimes think, "Hey - she kicked you out, blocked you from seeing your child and chose to be a single Mom - effectively choosing to do all this stuff herself. She made her bed and she should now sleep in it. If she wants help and all the benefits that come from having a man in the house, then she should reconsider the relationship. She wants the milk without buying the cow".

For now, my feeling is that I should just play along for a while to see where things go, relationship-wise. But I'm not sure where to draw the line and how to say it to her when the time comes.

[codependable]

Having healthy boundaries... living your life.  VERY GOOD.

Question about boundaries: My exGF asked me if I would pick her and my daughter up from the airport when they return in a few days.

My feeling is this is a good sign. At least she wants me there - or at least is okay with me picking her and my daughter up and spending time with me.

I would never think twice about this before - of course I would any time.

But in this situation (me being kicked out) I almost feel like going out of my way to help her is rewarding bad behavior. After all, she chose to be a single Mom and kick me out of her life and my daughter's life. She booked a ticket and took Christmas with my child away from me. And I go to the airport to help her do that?

Seems wrong somehow.

Doesn't showing up to help her put me in a subservient / lesser role? Like "sure I'll be there for you whatever you do to me! Kick me around some more!"

Is this a place to put a boundary?  Or am I overthinking things? Maybe the fact  that she wants me to pick them up is a "pull signal" and I should just go with it for now?

I texted her on Saturday (which is when Germans celebrate Christmas): "Merry Christmas to you and M".

Her response two days later was:

"No Wifi, but everything is fine. We will be back 12/29/2016. I don't have any cash with me, the visa to get into the country was more than I thought (so I couldn't pay extra for Wifi)"

That was it. Basically she was explaining why she hadn't kept in touch like she promised. I think she's telling the truth, but that stung a bit.

No "Merry Christmas to you, too" or "M says Merry Christmas" or anything like that.  Very hurtful. Absolutely no empathy at all for me. It's almost like I don't even register as a person.

My fear is that I fall into the "supportive guy" role, help her and go places with her, buy groceries and carry them upstairs, etc. - all the things I did before - but we never really get back together.  And I get stuck permanently in the role of "helper guy around the corner" even though I don't get the benefits of a relationship for me.

My only reason for helping her with the day-to-day stuff is to be there so we can rekindle what we had before and try to reconcile.

Should I place some firm boundaries on this helping behavior?

Part of me thinks, "Her biggest gripe was that you couldn't be counted on and didn't help her, now you can show her how helpful you really are - and that may warm her heart and maybe she'll reconsider when she sees how committed you are".

On the other hand, I sometimes think, "Hey - she kicked you out, blocked you from seeing your child and chose to be a single Mom - effectively choosing to do all this stuff herself. She made her bed and she should now sleep in it. If she wants help and all the benefits that come from having a man in the house, then she should reconsider the relationship. She wants the milk without buying the cow".

For now, my feeling is that I should just play along for a while to see where things go, relationship-wise. But I'm not sure where to draw the line and how to say it to her when the time comes.

[formflier]

Codependable,

Can you give us your age and your pwBPD age?  Age of daughters (any sons?)  Quick synopsis of your r/s with your oldest daughters mother.

Want to make sure potentially important details aren't missed.  

new thought:

Many of us on these boards have similar issues.  Sometimes they are arranged a bit differently, but nothing in my story, Notwendy's story, or your story is groundbreaking stuff.  

To us it may seem that way for a while.  

One of my hopes for you is that you become able to step back and see patterns in your life and that you make choices about those patterns that work for you.  That take you to a healthier place... .for you.

We may or may not agree with you.  That's ok.

High achieving kids:

I've got some as well.  Also have some that are "academically challenged".  They are trying hard.  (8 total for me).  Anyway... .one of my "rules" is that I am deliberate about reaching out and "being intrusive"... .even when there is not an apparent problem.

I think Notwendy and I are making the same point, in a different way.

What about the relationships in your life that don't seem to require attention?

FF

[formflier]

Or am I overthinking things?

Yes...

From one overthinker to another... .yes.

Now... .if you are telling me that she has taken 5 trips... .and you cancelled important stuff for you, to take care of her... .then we should talk.

If she starts taking lots of trips... .then we should talk.

I do like how you are thinking about patterns and precedents you are setting  Just don't think so much about it.

Can you think about your motivations?  Make this about your daughter.  Make this about your r/s with your daughters mom.  Stay there for a while.

I think that will help you with your boundaries.  Remember, boundaries go both ways. 

Last (for now):  Good job on the text conversation.  You did your thing... .she did hers.  You have your feelings about it, she has hers.  OBTW... .no surprise on her response... .or your response to it. 

This would be an example of you living your life... .she gets to manager her own stuff.  Completely normal for you to wish people Merry Christmas, it would be weird to "edit" that out of your life for a pwBPD (IMO). 

Does this make sense as a new way of looking at things? 

So... .dropping her off at airport... .time to reassure her of my love (not what we are looking for).

Saying something heartfelt on a holiday where people say heartfelt things... .(solid work!... .even if she had flipped out)

FF

[Notwendy]

With regards to picking up your exGF and child- I think being able to identify your feelings of resentment is important. To me- those feelings are a good barometer of when I am doing something from a place of my own choice to do and when I am stepping over the line- doing too much, enabling, and so on.

Then the complication is the safety of child - which can also leave you in a double bind sometimes as your ex could leverage the child. For instance- if your ex ran off on holiday by herself, returned with no cash, you could be tempted to say "face the consequences". The child on the other hand, didn't choose to do this and is dependent on her parents to get her home safely.

I think imbalance of who does what in a relationship can be common, but when a child is involved, their welfare takes precedence. While your ex chose to be a single mom, your child didn't make this choice. It isn't an easy line to navigate.

[Notwendy]

I wanted to mention the academic achievement of the girls because of my own background. Academic achievement is a good thing, something to be commended. However, children are born with a variety of abilities and needs, and although we want them to put their effort forward, we also need them to know they are loved unconditionally as they are.


Academic achievement was a good thing for us kids, but it was also a mask  - that kept people from noticing that all was not right at home. My parents were invested in keeping my mother's issues secret, and the idea of things not being bad because look at how the kids were doing- ie our achievements validated them.

The idea "look at how well my kids are doing academically- I must be a great parent" may be true but may also be an illusion. There was a lot going on in with us that nobody would have guessed because we were not identified in school as being at risk.

Your older daughters may be doing just great overall, but time with their dad means a lot to them.

[codependable]

Codependable,

Can you give us your age and your pwBPD age?  Age of daughters (any sons?)  Quick synopsis of your r/s with your oldest daughters mother.

Want to make sure potentially important details aren't missed.  

Sure. I'm 49. My exGF is 40. Our daughter is 18 months old.

My older daughters are 15 and 17. I have a great r/s with my older daughter's Mom (my ex-wife).  We were married for 18 years. We were together before that for six years. She had anger management issues and that was one of the reasons I decided to split with her, but overall we have a great relationship. We're still good friends and speak every few days, whether it's about our daughters or her new growth and r/s or current events.

One of my hopes for you is that you become able to step back and see patterns in your life and that you make choices about those patterns that work for you.  That take you to a healthier place... .for you.

I appreciate that. I'm starting to see these patterns thanks to your help.

I've got some as well.  Also have some that are "academically challenged".  They are trying hard.  (8 total for me).  Anyway... .one of my "rules" is that I am deliberate about reaching out and "being intrusive"... .even when there is not an apparent problem.

More good advice.

What about the relationships in your life that don't seem to require attention?

They're not forgotten. In the early days with my GF a few years back, I could see how her needs eclipsed just about everyone else in my life. At that point I made a commitment to myself that I would never allow her to drive a wedge between my children and myself even if it meant sacrificing the r/s with her. That may have just happened. In any event, yes, I do invest in relationships that aren't high maintenance too!

[formflier]

What attracted you to your pwBPD?  How did you guys meet?  How was the decision made to have a child together?

FF

[codependable]

We also need them to know they are loved unconditionally as they are.

Oh, absolutely. They know they are. I don't condition my love for them based on any external thing like grades, etc. No way.

Academic achievement was a good thing for us kids, but it was also a mask  - that kept people from noticing that all was not right at home.

This is really interesting. It sounds similar to an alcoholic family. I grew up in one so I know the patterns. I was the "scapegoat", my younger brother the "hero". Not sure if you're familiar with these familial roles, but he was the one with the great grades and "proof" all was okay under our roof.

I should think about this more in reference to my older daughters. I make every effort to visit them as much as I'm can - even if I have to fight for that time!

Speaking of resentment, I definitely have a lot of resentment towards my GF for trying to block me from seeing my daughters and trying to make me feel bad for visiting them - as well as punishing me (kicking me out) for seeing them.

Two years ago, before she was pregnant, I was seriously considering moving back to California to get my own place near my older daughters. I visited them summer of 2014 and almost stayed, phoned,my girlfriend and said "we're done".

At my brother's urging, I went back to Germany to split up with her as a "stand up guy would". We had a vacation planned which we did together and a month or so later, we found out she was pregnant with our young daughter.

I take full responsibility, but I can't help but remember stories of pwBPD having "oops" pregnancies to avoid being abandoned or when they get a hint of somebody leaving. While we did talk in the past of creating a family, at that point we were in a really bad place.

So, yes, I do harbor a lot of resentment towards my girlfriend for somehow blocking me from really being in my daughters' lives in a bigger way. At her time I found out she was pregnant, I told my German therapist and he freaked out. "Schwer", he said. (Heavy)

He said, "The solution is simple. You and your girlfriend get married, she gets a green card and you live in California until your older girls are in college. If she doesn't want to go, I will. California is amazing"

I've asked my older girlfriend many times about this plan and her response is, "Oh, I have to move out of MY country for those two b___es? Because they don't want to get on a plane more often to visit you?  So it's MY job to move to another country for THEM? Nein (no)"

I sorta get her point. She says it in a very bad and insulting way, but I see her point. Even so, most women in this situation would jump at the chance to move to California. But, of course, that would mean my daughters would "win" somehow. And she wouldn't ever let that happen.

All of my family (except my father) say I should leave my GF and move to California or be closer to my two older daughters who I have such a great relationship with. They say that my younger daughter wouldn't really know the difference anyway since she's so small. Even my therapist said that. He said, "If your girlfriend won't support you in being closer to your older daughters, I think you should go. You may not see much of your German daughter - maybe not until she's 18 and can make up her own mind to see you, but I think you should be close to your older daughters.

This is why I have flown back and forth a few times this year to visit them. And every time I'm left out in the cold for two months. And now, of course, this time permanently.

As for me, I just can't stand the thought of leaving my younger daughter behind. It would haunt me. I love her and don't think I could live with myself if I abandoned her - especially with her BPD mother. I feel it's very important to be in her life on a regular basis.

Such a terrible situation I'm in.

[codependable]

What attracted you to your pwBPD?

We worked in the same office complex.  She was a completely different person when I met her. Now I know what people say when they talk about a "false self" or "mask" that some pwBPD wear. She was so cute, charming, sexy, adventurous and fun to be with. Just an absolute joy. And she still is - when she is in a good mood. We share a lot of things in common, we're both pretty active, like to cook, similar political views, like to travel, etc. Tons on common.

We talked about having kids about a year into the relationship. She had lost her child, I had gone through a divorce and we thought we would get married and have children. It wasn't really a "plan" per se. It was more of a big picture goal for down the road AFTER we got married. I told her emphatically I would never have a child out of wedlock. We had to be married first. So our daughter was not "planned" planned.  My Gf was on the pill (a very low-level type) and missed taking it for a few days. We both take responsibility for that. At the time (as you'll see in the other post) we were having trouble as a couple and I was thinking of leaving her and going back to California.

Then our daughter happened and it changed everything.

[babyducks]

Part of me thinks, ... .

On the other hand, I sometimes think, ... .

You are not going to be able to out think her.   Really.   She processes the events of life in different ways than you do.   

 

I think being able to identify your feelings of resentment is important. To me- those feelings are a good barometer of when I am doing something from a place of my own choice to do and when I am stepping over the line- doing too much, enabling, and so on.

Notwendy has a good point.   Boundaries are formed on my values.  The are not there to change someone else.   I value peace of mind, and my own serenity so I will not do something that makes me feel uncomfortable or ill at ease.   I value the respect and good will of the people closest to me so I will not do something that allows people (or myself) to think less of myself.   I value the health and safety of my child above all else so I will do what I can to facilitate safe and comfortable travel.

my two cents

[Notwendy]

Read up on the Karpman Triangle - when it comes to your older daughters, your exGF and you. You are in a tough situation, but not an unusual one. The hardest part in your situation is the distance. But the issue is the same drama triangle. All of us were one family, but my mother was irate about any attention, or resources my father allotted to me. Kind of like the Cinderella story and the stepmother.

BPD homes are very similar to alcoholic homes. In fact, I attend ACA and co-dependency 12 step groups as the patterns are so similar. I was the scapegoat and a sibling was the golden child. We both made good grades. For me, the grades were the ticket out of the FOO I grew up in and so I was motivated to go to college.

I do recall as kids, us reaching out to other people, and being told " well it couldn't have been all that bad - look how you kids turned out"

I am glad you have a good relationship with your ex wife and that she is a relatively stable ( hope the anger doesn't affect the kids) parent to your girls.  For me the father-daughter relationship is special, it certainly was to me. But it didn't please my mother.

I know fathers who travel, and are not around all the time but they make time for their daughters. It would have been ideal if they all could live nearby, but without that happening, it will be you who does the travelling to see them. That can be a boundary- your time with them. It won't be long until your older girls are in college, and then you would travel to see them too. My father came to see me in college - he would fit it into a business trip if he was near the area- and it was great to have some one on one time.

[formflier]

If we get into TMI... .let me know.

What kind of birth control was being used when your pwBPD got pregnant?

FF

[Notwendy]

Basically all the BC pills these days are low dose. If there is a missed dose, people are advised to use a back up method until the next cycle. The most convenient one is condoms.

[formflier]

Codependable,

I want you to think strategically.  This is an issue to keep in the back of your mind... .

You are in a bit of a pickle.

Daughters with a wide degree of geographical separation.   

You need to discuss this with your L.  You want to get to a place where you have full... .joint... custody of your daughter. 

Hopefully the schedule can be set up so there can be breaks in there of a  couple of weeks.  This can be set up as win win for both of you guys.  You get to go see other daughters... .your pwBPD gets to go on holiday with daughter... .or whatever.  Then you guys get time together as co-parents.

Make sure there is no legal disadvantage to you leaving to go see other family.

What do you think the chances are that your pwBPD is going to change their thinking and decide you going to see other daughters is a good idea?

Or move with you to be close to them?

Part of our advice about "living your life" includes keeping up with prior commitments.  Your pwBPD gets to feel however she wants to feel about that.  As do you.

I don't want to give much more advice about this, other than to make sure it gets discussed with your L... .and you understand how the law applies.

Also ask your L about the law as it pertains to you taking daughter (young one) to go visit in the US.  Knowing your pwBPD will bring up kidnapping plots and all that. 

I'm not saying you need to take little one for a visit.  I AM SAYING that you need to understand the law.

FF

[codependable]

You need to discuss this with your L.  You want to get to a place where you have full... .joint... custody of your daughter. 

I did discuss this with her the other day. She agreed this is my priority. I am worried, however, that this will trigger my GF just as we are starting to rebuild and reconcile. So far, since I have been here, she hasn't blocked me from seeing her.

Hopefully the schedule can be set up so there can be breaks in there of a  couple of weeks.  This can be set up as win win for both of you guys.  You get to go see other daughters... .your pwBPD gets to go on holiday with daughter... .or whatever.  Then you guys get time together as co-parents.

Makes sense.

What do you think the chances are that your pwBPD is going to change their thinking and decide you going to see other daughters is a good idea?

Not a very good chance unless we're really through.

Or move with you to be close to them?

Well, if we reconcile, there might be a chance she would move with me to Chicago, which is where my extended family lives. We were talking seriously about that when I went to California in October. Chicago would mean we're closer to my family and there would be lots of cousins my younger daughter's age. It would be really great. Also, since Chicago is much closer than Germany, it would be much less "triggering", cheaper and time-consuming to go to California from Chicago. It would be a big win, in my opinion. And, again: we were seriously discussing this plan before I left this last time. It's baffling. I don't understand how my GF can do these amazing 180 degree emotional twists and turns. One day we're talking about getting married, moving to the States and the next she kicks me out, tells me "we're not a couple anymore - we're nothing" and "I don't love you".

Granted, I've heard this stuff before, but wow. It's unbelievable how she can switch SO quickly.

I know you or GK said that I can't expect her to have the same consistent base of love that I do, but I'm still grappling with such a brutal 180 and discard.

So hard.

Part of our advice about "living your life" includes keeping up with prior commitments.  Your pwBPD gets to feel however she wants to feel about that.  As do you.

Yes, I have kept my commitment to my older daughters. And as you can see, my GF hates that. But I've been firm.

Also ask your L about the law as it pertains to you taking daughter (young one) to go visit in the US.  Knowing your pwBPD will bring up kidnapping plots and all that. 

I'm not saying you need to take little one for a visit.  I AM SAYING that you need to understand the law.

Good point. As I now think through this process of trying to reconcile and get couples counseling and save my family and r/s with my GF, I'm starting to think if there is no reconciliation as a couple, that I might just move back to California and fight to have my younger daughter spend summers with me.

It would be too painful for me to see my ex here in Germany. Especially if we can't reconcile and she starts seeing another guy. That would kill me. I think it would be much easier to live in the States and simply visit my younger daughter and have her visit me in the U.S.

I don't know. I'm so distraught about this whole situation.

[formflier]

Please give all of these alternate scenarios only a "passing thought"?


I would give some thought to whether or not you want to be a "full time" parent to your teens... .or your younger daughter.  Don't obsess over it... .but that may end up being the choice.

How do you plan on getting parental rights without triggering your GF?

FF

[Grey Kitty]

It would be too painful for me to see my ex here in Germany. Especially if we can't reconcile and she starts seeing another guy. That would kill me. I think it would be much easier to live in the States and simply visit my younger daughter and have her visit me in the U.S.

As I've said a few times, try to stop reacting to which direction she is blowing in the wind today, and which direction she might blow in the wind tomorrow.

Instead, try to believe that no matter WHAT you do, she will blow in the wind. And you need to stay true to your values.

I've got no children, so I can't compare my r/s with a child to my r/s with a partner at a personal level, but I have many friends who are parents, and all the ones I respect put their child's wellbeing FIRST, never questioning that. And after their child's wellbeing is their r/s with their child, not that the two are in conflict much. And after that is their romantic r/s.

I know several members here have stated that they were willing to be abused in a r/s with a pwBPD, and the only thing that gave them the strength to leave was fear that their child would also be abused, or would be abused worse than they had already seen, or would accept the image of abuse as "normal" and ultimately be likely to choose a partner who would abuse them as an adult.

I'm concerned that at your daughter's age (18mo), seeing her only for summers will really hurt your r/s with her.

And also worried that your gf will eventually become abusive as your daughter grows older and more willful... .and if you aren't actively involved, you won't see the signs or the damage before it gets really bad.

In your shoes, I would find a way to cope with seeing my gf with another guy, so I could be there for my daughter. Or at least I truly hope I would--I've never been tested that way. I know I would do all I could to pass that test for myself and my daughter.

[Notwendy]

I'm going to continue the thread to discuss some of GK's points. I agree that the welfare of the younger child ( and older ones as well ) needs to be a non-negotiable boundary for the child's sake. If seeing her mother is too painful and you visit less, she won't understand this- she will feel as if her daddy deserted her. I think the child's welfare needs to be maintained regardless of what changes in moods/partners/feelings are there. These moods can change in a minute but the child needs consistent parenting.

Some parents have left an abusive relationship and others have stayed in order to be the consistent parent for the kids. Each relationship is different. But I do feel both as a parent to my own kids and a daughter of a BPD mother that a consistent loving parent can make a big difference. Children deal better with a schedule, so if the daughter in Germany knows she will see Daddy on some sort of regular schedule, talk to daddy by skype at night- some sort of bedtime routine- the routine is preferable to a random visit situation. Of course BPD mom may make this complicated.

The older two girls need a relationship with their father, but they are also on the brink of going to college. College kids don't usually see their parents all the time, except on school breaks, and even then, they are often busy. At this time, the younger child will need to spend more time with dad than the older girls, but some time with the older girls is still important.

[codependable]

I'm going to continue the thread to discuss some of GK's points. I agree that the welfare of the younger child ( and older ones as well ) needs to be a non-negotiable boundary for the child's sake. If seeing her mother is too painful and you visit less, she won't understand this- she will feel as if her daddy deserted her.

And that's the last thing I would ever want.

Some parents have left an abusive relationship and others have stayed in order to be the consistent parent for the kids. Each relationship is different. But I do feel both as a parent to my own kids and a daughter of a BPD mother that a consistent loving parent can make a big difference.

In the home? Or does it matter?

Children deal better with a schedule, so if the daughter in Germany knows she will see Daddy on some sort of regular schedule, talk to daddy by skype at night- some sort of bedtime routine- the routine is preferable to a random visit situation.

This is a good point - and good idea.

The older two girls need a relationship with their father, but they are also on the brink of going to college. College kids don't usually see their parents all the time, except on school breaks, and even then, they are often busy.

That is true and one of the reasons I'm here, rather than there.

At this time, the younger child will need to spend more time with dad than the older girls, but some time with the older girls is still important.

Of course. It absolutely breaks my heart they can't have me in their life on a daily basis. I just love my older girls. My "compromise" situation would be to stay in their area until they leave for college, visiting my younger child often in Germany during this time and then when my older girls go off to college, move back to Germany to be in my younger child's life full-time. It would require rebuilding our relationship at that point and I would run the risk that she won't want to see me, but it's another option. She probably won't speak English, either. My ex said, "It's not my job to teach her English.  If we break up, I won't."

We will see how things go with my exGF. If we can reconcile as a family, then I will stay 100%. If, however she sticks to her guns and keeps pushing me away saying, "I've made my final decision", then I'll have to consider all my options.

[Grey Kitty]

We will see how things go with my exGF. If we can reconcile as a family, then I will stay 100%. If, however she sticks to her guns and keeps pushing me away saying, "I've made my final decision", then I'll have to consider all my options.

She can't give you clear reconciliation and acknowledgment of what she did, and a (realistic) promise not to do it again. She's not capable of that.

I really doubt she's capable of cutting ties with you 100%, like you are afraid of, although that is possible.

What she is almost certain to do is give you mixed messages, being with you like she accepts you but saying she doesn't. Not letting you touch her. Then touching you. And change back and forth so fast it gives you whiplash.

Please understand. The woman who loves you isn't real. The woman who hates you isn't real. The contradictory and ever-changing mix is who she really is.

This is something you have to accept, and learn to deal with. We can help you with tools for this part, but a great deal of it is accepting this difficult reality.

And she's shown you very clearly that when she's pushing you away, she will withhold your daughter. She's done it before. She's doing it right now on this trip. She will do it again.

This is also something you have to deal with. And you need your lawyer and the courts to do this part, unless you are ready to give up on your daughter. From what your lawyer says, you should be able to stop this.

[codependable]

She can't give you clear reconciliation and acknowledgment of what she did, and a (realistic) promise not to do it again. She's not capable of that.

I know. It's always my fault somehow. She will never take any responsibility for her actions - ever.

I really doubt she's capable of cutting ties with you 100%, like you are afraid of, although that is possible.

The fact that she let me come in the first night I came back to Germany and literally get into our bed together and cuddled our daughter might be proof of that.  As well as the other touching, time spent together, request to take her to the airport and pick her up, we're in contact again, etc.

What she is almost certain to do is give you mixed messages, being with you like she accepts you but saying she doesn't. Not letting you touch her. Then touching you. And change back and forth so fast it gives you whiplash.

Sounds about right. Very, very confusing and hurtful. This has happened before. Eventually, she warms up when she feels I'm not leaving and I've been home for a while. Then again, me being out of the apartment is a new dynamic.

Please understand. The woman who loves you isn't real. The woman who hates you isn't real. The contradictory and ever-changing mix is who she really is.

That is powerful, devastating. I am reeling from this one. Ugh. What do I do?

This is something you have to accept, and learn to deal with. We can help you with tools for this part, but a great deal of it is accepting this difficult reality.

That's really tough. I need help getting my mind around this. What tools can help me with this?

And she's shown you very clearly that when she's pushing you away, she will withhold your daughter. She's done it before. She's doing it right now on this trip. She will do it again.

Right. She IS withholding my daughter on this trip as well - after promising to stay in touch I have received no contact from my daughter, even on Christmas Day. And she knows I have travelled all the way from the other side of the earth to see my daughter on Christmas?  How can she be so cruel? There is zero empathy from her.

This is also something you have to deal with. And you need your lawyer and the courts to do this part, unless you are ready to give up on your daughter. From what your lawyer says, you should be able to stop this.

That's true. The courts will hopefully back me.

Honestly, part of me does want to give up on my daughter. I feel terrible saying that, but I don't know if I have the fight in me for this. At least for now. I need to focus on work, get my career and mental health back on track and get myself healthy first.

I'm in a terrible state emotionally (as you can imagine). I also feel like getting deeper into this "psycho war" will only take away from my older daughters even more. They have lost SO much already in this terrible scenario. They need their Dad now more than ever. One is a junior in high school and the other is a sophomore. They're both starting to get interested in boys and need my guidance and for me to put my arm around them when they've had a tough day.

And they're the most loyal, loving, sweet girls on the face of the earth. It feels so unjust to fight for my younger daughter, invest more time battling my exGF and deplete my own strength and resources that could be better spent on my older, loyal daughters who love me. I feel I should be putting my resources and time into people who have earned it. My ex-wife has also been fantastic. It feels SO unjust. My exGF is sucking me into this crazy battle and is taking more and more time and focus away from my older daughters. As I've said before, she hates them and would do anything to "win" against them.

It feels like she orchestrated the baby to have the ultimate tool of manipulation over me in this sick battle (in her mind) between her and my older daughters.

Why should I invest more time, energy, resources and money battling over here while my older daughters are without a father? Why "reward" the bad behavior of my exGF by giving time, attention, money and resources to her (above and beyond what is legally dictated)? Why not reward my older daughters' loyalty, steadfastness, understanding and love - and just walk away from this ugly situation here and hope in a few years I can be back in my younger daughter's life?

On the other hand, I know my younger daughter is a pure, innocent soul who had no part in her sick mother's manipulations and games. So it's very, very difficult - almost impossible - for me to simply leave her behind. She's my daughter, too. Most of my friends and family say to do that. To just walk away - that I can never really win.  That my youngest has good grandparents and is safe. That I should go back to California and be in my older daughters' lives and simply visit my younger daughter from time to time. Then, go back to Germany when the time is right and try to build a relationship with her.

Anyway, I will see how things go this summer goes before I make a final decision. I don't want to damage my young daughter by leaving / abandoning her but I have only a couple of short years to enjoy my older daughters before they go off to college.

So tough.

[Notwendy]

I think one can be a consistent parent both in and out of the home. For some parents, divorce, separation - is the best choice they can arrive at, and for others, staying and working on the relationship is. It really is an individual choice that each person makes. Not an easy ones- has pros and cons on both sides- but still people come to the choice that they feel is best.

Either way, I don't think it is possible to eliminate all effects of a difficult relationship on children. I don't think there are any perfect parents out there. But I do think it is important to make the welfare of the children a priority. Also, children vary in their own innate resilience, and parenting skills also vary with parents with BPD. What may be OK for one child may not be for another. I think it is important to keep an eye on how the kids are doing. Getting good grades in school is a positive indicator- not that is means all is OK, but it does say that at least the kids are functioning well in this area. Others are their mood, behaviors, appetite, signs of physical abuse, having friends in school.

Some fathers travel for work, some are in the armed forces and are deployed for months at a time, but they can set up ways to communicate with their families. One problem is that BPD mom may interfere with this-such as being out of range for computer contact. Would be good if the two of you could agree on something for the sake of the child- like having Daddy read a bedtime story to her by Skype at night if you are in the US, or whatever time works for you. And you can buy some books for toddlers in German.

As to giving up on the child. Makes me think of the King Solomon decision. A decision that surely has no absolute answer beyond measuring which is the least hurtful to the child.  If the conflict between you and her mother eventually creates so much chaos that you can't function well, and the child's stability is being torn up- it may be something to question.

[formflier]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

Radical acceptance lessons above.

Also... .approaching a r/s from a "winning and/or losing" point of view is going to create a lot of problems, especially if both partners do this.  If one partner does this, it will still be difficult.

Last (for now).  Are there other things in your life that you have made "final" decisions on?  I've noticed you mention "final decision" many times.  Are there decisions that can't be undone?

FF

[codependable]

Would be good if the two of you could agree on something for the sake of the child- like having Daddy read a bedtime story to her by Skype at night if you are in the US, or whatever time works for you.

Tried this when I was in the States last time. My pwBPD refused to put my daughter on Skype with me saying, "She gets so upset after your Skype calls. She doesn't understand why she can't touch you and hug you. You should have seen her face when I closed the computer last time. I don't think it's good for her"

So, after one Skype she totally refused to put her on (in two months) except for one other time. Feels to me that my pwBPD is projecting her feelings of loss onto our daughter.

As to giving up on the child. Makes me think of the King Solomon decision. If the conflict between you and her mother eventually creates so much chaos that you can't function well, and the child's stability is being torn up- it may be something to question.

I'm almost at a point where I can't function well now. I'm here in a rented place in over Airbnb in Germany, blocked from seeing my child and kicked out of the home I left - and my exGF is now in Egypt with my 18 mos old daughter over Christmas.  After promising to stay in touch and send photos, etc. when I took her to the airport, all I have heard from my exGF is a message saying she doesn't have money for Wifi. And, of course, a time for me to pick them up. That's it. I have no idea what city they are in, which hotel, how to reach them in an emergency, nothing. Just out in the cold.

This feels incredibly abusive to me. If the situations were reversed, my exGF would be absolutely freaking out now. But somehow, it's okay for her to do to me.

This, incidentally, is one of my biggest problems with her. "Okay for her, not for me"

[codependable]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

Radical acceptance lessons above.

Thanks for that resource.

Also... .approaching a r/s from a "winning and/or losing" point of view is going to create a lot of problems, especially if both partners do this.  If one partner does this, it will still be difficult.

Did I do that? I may have mentioned that my gf sees her fight with my older daughters as win/lose.

Last (for now).  Are there other things in your life that you have made "final" decisions on?  I've noticed you mention "final decision" many times.  Are there decisions that can't be undone?

Interesting. Not sure about "final decisions", actually. I was unaware I mentioned that. Maybe I'm just steeling myself to be resolute. And yes, of course, there are some decisions that can't be undone, such as having a baby... .

[KateCat]

Greetings, codependable:

I'm another person who has no children, but I do have a husband who has a diagnosed paranoia disorder and understand how difficult this is to come to terms with. This is a moment of your life that surely deserves time and your full respect for the internal process that must begin to take place.

I think it's also important to understand something that eluded me for the longest time. I wised up when a clinical social worker said to me, "He's several steps ahead of you." I began to see how true this was. He is several steps ahead of everybody in his planning, because that is how his disorder defends itself.

So, I'm thinking that you might want to get into court now (and I mean like "now" to establish full rights as the father of your child.

I don't know that you would ever be the victim of false accusations of domestic violence or inappropriate behavior with your young child. But if so, you would be far from the first father who has participated in these forums to see his life immeasurably complicated by precisely those attacks.

Right now you seem to be in a strong position to step up to be an equal parent, supported by German social policy. I fear you could lose that position by delaying. My guess is that your girlfriend is thinking, thinking . . .

 

[formflier]

I'll have to go back in the threads but it seems that I saw you mention "winning and loosing" several times... .and also "final decision" ... ."final discard"... ."really over"... .etc etc etc.

It is soo easy to fall into that thinking when the other person in a r/s is going wide open in "winning and loosing" type thinking.  I certainly tend to think "Oh no you're not... ." and then take it upon myself to devise a strategy to thwart that.

In all honesty... .I've had much better results just doing my thing and letting my pwBPD do their thing.  Perhaps a direct question here and there to ask what they are doing... usually because I honestly have no idea.  Once they realize they are making an a$$ out of themselves explaining their crazyness... .they hush.

Codependable,

You have talk about "steeling yourself"... .getting resolve and all that.      Make sure that you focus that resolve on your legal rights.  Within a couple days of your pwBPD getting home you need to have either gone down there cooperatively and "signed up" (it seems she was open to this) or you need go file yourself.

KateCat's advice and insight on this is critical. 

Think of it another way.  If she has good intentions... .why would she delay or thwart the process?

Drop r/s talk... .focus on daughter... .

FF

[KateCat]

Think of it another way.  If she has good intentions... .why would she delay or thwart the process?

That's what I was thinking. In the world of good mental health, if you're an unwed mother, and you tell the guy you're through, and he is a stand up guy and goes down to the courthouse to take full responsibility for his child . . . then you'll see him as an honorable man.

I know that's not what you expect to happen here, and it likely won't. But unless you proceed on with this relationship with the mom without any boundaries or protections for yourself, then something's gonna explode anyway. And it would be best if you're already fully established as ":)ad" when it does.

Just out of curiosity . . . what happens to your girlfriend's overall financial picture if you two are no longer in a romantic relationship? Is this something that could be headed for a showdown too?

I wish you had time to recover from your shock before taking some important actions. But I wonder if you really do.

[codependable]

I wised up when a clinical social worker said to me, "He's several steps ahead of you." I began to see how true this was. He is several steps ahead of everybody in his planning, because that is how his disorder defends itself.

So, I'm thinking that you might want to get into court now (and I mean like "now" to establish full rights as the father of your child.

Right now you seem to be in a strong position to step up to be an equal parent, supported by German social policy. I fear you could lose that position by delaying. My guess is that your girlfriend is thinking, thinking . . .

Thanks for your input. I think you're right. On the one hand, I would like to reconcile and get us to counseling.  Which means I don't want to "break her trust" and validate her fears by going to the German legal system. This is, after all, precisely what she fears most: that I would "steal" our daughter from her.

On the other hand, time is ticking and has demonstrated she will do just about anything to get her way.  I have a meeting at the Jugendamt late today and will explain to them what has happened to me. I will take their advice from that point on.

[codependable]

I'll have to go back in the threads but it seems that I saw you mention "winning and loosing" several times... .and also "final decision" ... ."final discard"... ."really over"... .etc etc etc.

I see what you mean.

It is soo easy to fall into that thinking when the other person in a r/s is going wide open in "winning and loosing" type thinking.  I certainly tend to think "Oh no you're not... ." and then take it upon myself to devise a strategy to thwart that.

So true.

Make sure that you focus that resolve on your legal rights.  Within a couple days of your pwBPD getting home you need to have either gone down there cooperatively and "signed up" (it seems she was open to this) or you need go file yourself.

I go tomorrow to the Jugendamt to start the process of in-writing visitation rights.

Think of it another way.  If she has good intentions... .why would she delay or thwart the process?

Because she is paranoid that I'm trying to "steal" our daughter.

Drop r/s talk... .focus on daughter... .

Okay.