Both Parents Attendance at Activities and How to Handle Interactions

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I had at one time tried to eliminate the possibility of both myself and exNPDBPDw being at any of the kids’ events at the same time.  For my own obvious reasons, ex just can’t behave like a mature adult and has no recognition for boundaries.  Well, the Master just didn’t see the concern and validity, neither did my L, but anyway.  So now I am routinely at sports activities for S9 with ex and her boyfriend.  I have become “friendly” with the boyfriend and regularly watch portions of games with him.  But I can see this is not healthy for me as ex portrays the boyfriend as “Dad” and I get tired of hearing him tell me about the traits of my own kids.  I have noticed that there are things ex does not make him aware of either.  Like behavior issues with our S12.

So I am soliciting advice here, with a pending wrestling season for S9 starting this weekend.  I do to the greatest extent possible keep my distance from ex, but given her “helicopter” parenting style, this does leave me with reduced exposure to my child during events.  During wrestling meets there is a lot of down time between matches.   

An example I’ll use to elicit opinions on boundaries and how to enforce, or address ex’s demonstration of just bad social interactions, has happened at least twice in the last two years along with many other interactions with me in front of the kids.

It was at the end of one of our meets, so the gym had emptied out, I was standing at one mat with my hands on S9’s shoulders watching one of his teammates wrestle.  We would talk a little, but were primarily watching the match in front of us.  I sensed and felt ex standing eerily close to my side.  It “looked” weird, especially with few people in the gym.  She stood there biting her fingernails, then she moved in.  As I was standing there with S9, my hands on his shoulders, it was at this time ex felt it a good idea for S9 to be introduced to one of the coaches along the match we were watching.  She basically interrupted whatever I and S9 had going on, butted in, and asked S9, “do you know Coach Bigshot, have you ever met him S9?, Hmm?”  Clearly she was trying to “take” S9 away from if not interfere with the little bit of bonding I was doing with S9.  This has happened several times over the last three years between S9 and S12s activities.   

I did interrupt ex stating that she was interrupting my time with S9 and please stop.  In the whole interaction I was uncomfortable, tense enough that I probably came across as the less stable individual than ex. 

I broached this topic in our most recent, two years ago, round of court-ordered and useless and maybe dangerous coparent counseling.  I asked the counselor what should I do, or what should be done with this situation when one party still has no recognition for boundaries and my own boundaries actually present triggers to the BP.  The only response I got, per coparent counseling was, “you are both responsible for your own behavior while around the children.”  This didn’t help me at all. 

My boys are now at the age where I feel I can have conversations with them about things like this and maybe this is how I need to handle these types of interactions.  Just let them go for the moment, maybe document my displeasure to ex, and have a conversation after with the child, that what they just experienced was NOT proper behavior for a parent or a child for that matter.

One of the many very difficult things in dealing with a BP is to not trigger behaviors.  Me expressing my displeasure with ex actually “validates” her motives and sustains the trigger – I think!

 

[scraps66]

I had at one time tried to eliminate the possibility of both myself and exNPDBPDw being at any of the kids’ events at the same time.  For my own obvious reasons, ex just can’t behave like a mature adult and has no recognition for boundaries.  Well, the Master just didn’t see the concern and validity, neither did my L, but anyway.  So now I am routinely at sports activities for S9 with ex and her boyfriend.  I have become “friendly” with the boyfriend and regularly watch portions of games with him.  But I can see this is not healthy for me as ex portrays the boyfriend as “Dad” and I get tired of hearing him tell me about the traits of my own kids.  I have noticed that there are things ex does not make him aware of either.  Like behavior issues with our S12.

So I am soliciting advice here, with a pending wrestling season for S9 starting this weekend.  I do to the greatest extent possible keep my distance from ex, but given her “helicopter” parenting style, this does leave me with reduced exposure to my child during events.  During wrestling meets there is a lot of down time between matches.   

An example I’ll use to elicit opinions on boundaries and how to enforce, or address ex’s demonstration of just bad social interactions, has happened at least twice in the last two years along with many other interactions with me in front of the kids.

It was at the end of one of our meets, so the gym had emptied out, I was standing at one mat with my hands on S9’s shoulders watching one of his teammates wrestle.  We would talk a little, but were primarily watching the match in front of us.  I sensed and felt ex standing eerily close to my side.  It “looked” weird, especially with few people in the gym.  She stood there biting her fingernails, then she moved in.  As I was standing there with S9, my hands on his shoulders, it was at this time ex felt it a good idea for S9 to be introduced to one of the coaches along the match we were watching.  She basically interrupted whatever I and S9 had going on, butted in, and asked S9, “do you know Coach Bigshot, have you ever met him S9?, Hmm?”  Clearly she was trying to “take” S9 away from if not interfere with the little bit of bonding I was doing with S9.  This has happened several times over the last three years between S9 and S12s activities.   

I did interrupt ex stating that she was interrupting my time with S9 and please stop.  In the whole interaction I was uncomfortable, tense enough that I probably came across as the less stable individual than ex. 

I broached this topic in our most recent, two years ago, round of court-ordered and useless and maybe dangerous coparent counseling.  I asked the counselor what should I do, or what should be done with this situation when one party still has no recognition for boundaries and my own boundaries actually present triggers to the BP.  The only response I got, per coparent counseling was, “you are both responsible for your own behavior while around the children.”  This didn’t help me at all. 

My boys are now at the age where I feel I can have conversations with them about things like this and maybe this is how I need to handle these types of interactions.  Just let them go for the moment, maybe document my displeasure to ex, and have a conversation after with the child, that what they just experienced was NOT proper behavior for a parent or a child for that matter.

One of the many very difficult things in dealing with a BP is to not trigger behaviors.  Me expressing my displeasure with ex actually “validates” her motives and sustains the trigger – I think!

 

[takingandsending]

Hi scraps,

I haven't looked through your history, so I may not have your situation 100% right. It sounds like you have shared custody of your sons, but you are more limited on contact. Is that correct? Have you considered putting together a schedule of your kids' activities and proposing a split of times that you attend/wife attends with possibly some (but less) events where you both attend?

What sort of behavior issues are you observing in your son, and does he see a T?

Regarding your example, you may have already tried SET as a communication tool - don't know if it would have worked here. I.e. rather than going straight to firm boundary, try, "I see that you are excited to introduce S9 to coach Bigshot. That sounds like a good idea. We are watching this match right now, so please let us finish, and S9 will go with you afterwards." In my experience, my STBxBPDw gets "great ideas" at kids' parent/teacher conferences and the like, and she cannot be contained - she simply has to get her idea out, whether or not it is on topic, the teacher is talking about something entirely different, etc. Given the poor identification of boundaries, your xw maybe had one of those moments "that just couldn't wait". At any rate, firm boundary is good but validating before boundary might ease some of the conflict. To that end, I actually do agree with the co-parenting counselor that each parent is responsible for their actions around the kids, although, clearly, for those of us dealing with pwBPD/NPD, not being triggered by their behavior is tough sledding. There's a reason that therapists that treat them see other therapists afterwards for themselves.

[scraps66]

TASending, I have no limitations, we are both free to show up at activities.  We used to individually show up only during our individual parenting time.  If I remember correctly, ex started showing up on a regular basis on my time when I voiced my concern with her behavior.  I had forgotten that so long ago and that now she wants the bf to be a big part if not bigger part of the boys' lives than me. 

I have 50/50 physical and joint legal custody.  I have inconsistently tried using SET, more through e-mail than in person.  I am generally and consistently tense in her presence and let my anger take over and that prevents me from acting in a strategic way.     

[takingandsending]

How long ago were you divorced? I just read the lesson from Deena Stacer on avoiding parent interaction for 2 years to avoid escalating tension. It seems so extreme, but I am wondering g if it makes best sense in getting over these unending dramas with pwBPD. I am sorry to hear how reactive you feel. I lost my cool yesterday in mediation with STBxw from basically expecting even a shred of civility. 

[scraps66]

PAS can bring this out and the feeling that you're losing at least one child.  Divorce was final 2012.  Four year ordeal with me being kicked out of the house for 15 months.

[takingandsending]

If it's been 4-5 years, it's not likely to get any better. Seems like best bet is to amend parent plan to limit attendance at sons' activities to custody parent on that date and include possible exceptions like graduation, birthday or whatever big event you currently are willing to tolerate for your sons' happiness/peace of mind.

[scraps66]

I tried that last time I went back to court along with a bunch of other issues I was tolerating.  The Master didn't go along with anything and sent us to coparent counseling which was a waste.

I'm trying to work on some "me" things right now and may try and see what I can control myself.  I've learned that going back to court, especially in my country, usually doesn't get me anywhere and it's gotten worse there since my divorce with more incompetence.

[takingandsending]

One of the many very difficult things in dealing with a BP is to not trigger behaviors.  Me expressing my displeasure with ex actually “validates” her motives and sustains the trigger – I think!

Maybe rephrase this thinking to "Me expressing my displeasure with ex actually invalidates her feelings (right or wrong) and refreshes her triggers." In other words, if there is no relief likely from court, how can you not make communications worse? Hard to do with pwBPD/NPD but being consistent in your boundaries and expressing them using some validation might help.

I think that explaining your conflicts with their mom to your sons will not necessarily make things better. BUT validating their own experiences with their mom that they may bring to you is incredibly supportive and necessary. If S9 mentioned that he felt uncomfortable after mom encroached, validate that feeling. Even if he felt uncomfortable with you and ex fighting over it, validate that feeling and repair - acknowledge your own reactions put him in a bad spot. That will help him develop confidence in his feelings and resiliency. You are their safe, reliable attachment. It is good that you are working to see how you can preserve that necessary attachment for your sons.