I suspect that my wife has BPD

[Depression = 72% of members]

Believe it or not, I had to leave out 25% of this... .

I suspect that my wife has BPD and I have severe combination type ADHD, so of course when something had been happening that "just didn't make sense," I would tell her "that didn't make any sense." Big mistake (now, I know... .).

I have known my dear wife for over 30 years. We were neighbors as kids, and I have known her since I was 14 years old. We "met" again after 22 years and although we were just friends in our youth, we fell in love with an almost automatic familiarity and we knew all of the "standard" family history types of things about each other, and then some.  When my wife was 16, she witnessed her older sister take her own life with a gun. I lived down the street and knew of the event within 24 hours. My wife saw a therapist for just a couple of visits and never went back. She has always felt like she warned her parents that something was wrong with her sister, but her sister was an honor student so they tended to tell her she was "trying to get her sister into trouble," and she would get punished, then other times, her sister would steal things and hide them under my wife's bed and let her take the blame.

Ironically, one of the things that led me to a "crush" on her back then was how strong she seemed after that event. I was not even a friend of her sister, who was not even 'nice' to me, but I was so affected by the event, I had a hard time going to school the next week.  She missed school for a few days, but then later returned and seemed like it hadn't happened. 

She was a year ahead of me in school, and after she left for school, we lost touch for 22 years. Fate led us to a meeting again all those years later, and it was magical for almost 5 years, but we got sued by my ex-wife, and while we "won," it cost over $200,000 and was incredibly stressful for us both and the stress of the even helped to uncover my ADHD and treatment was an amazing experience. Symptomatically, I am in the 98th percentile for inattentiveness, so once I started treatment it was like a light came on in in the dark room.  Initially, my wife was thrilled because she had been feeling like I was not paying attention to her since the court case.  But something changed for me and I have been talking to my psychiatrist for almost two years about what I started "noticing" with my wife. I also learned that my wife's ex-husband had been committing malpractice insurance fraud and had a secret apartment and bank account (this is a key point too).

She had begun making more and more references to this court case and she "got screwed" with the court case, and initially felt it was "my fault", and felt that she was "being blamed" for the court case. She began having episodes of anger that far exceeded the situation and eventually, she would start saying very harsh things for disagreements and she would escalate to "I f'ing hate you, I f'ing hate your f'ing guts!" at the top of her lungs, but later (usually a couple of days later), when I asked how she could say something like that to me, she would reply, almost insulted "I never said that."

Fast forward 12 months and we have had several bouts of these types of events and nearly split up twice (but she was the one who threatened to leave).  At first, I wasn't fully aware of what was happening, and part of me didn't want it to be happening, so I would tell myself that "I have known her for 30 years and there is no way I just heard her say that." Much like those outside our relationship now.  I thought it could have been something like PTSD, because she definitely fits nearly all of the qualifying criteria, but I think it was more palatable to me that what I initially hypothesized (which was BPD).

I broke the proverbial rules #1 and likely #2 and #3... .I tried to tell her what I had been witnessing (and I resorted to recording our conversations - although - luckily, I haven't shared those with her, and I have so many examples of her saying things that were so overly exaggerated when she was angry, that they began bordering on harmful to me.  In hindsight, I recognize now that her "feeling outbursts" were likely reactions to the feeling that I was somehow trying to sabotage her or that this man, who she loved more than anything, is "all of a sudden" trying to "get her" or tell everyone she is crazy (which I never have or ever would).  So, like how she has repressed so many painful memories her whole life, including with me, those pain-feelings built up and exploded after she mentioned casually at dinner that she "thinks [she] wants to move upstairs, in our house, to spend time with our dogs," but she then said that after she had a chance to "recharge," she wanted to have a 1-week getaway with me. I thought that sounded better, but she repeated that she wanted to "move upstairs with the dogs." So I am 100% positive that I had an expression of disappointment on my face, but she exclaimed that she "saw the look on my face" and that I "was trying to make her feel guilty." I said that I wasn't and that I was just a little upset to learn that. She then accused me of trying to manipulate her (I later learned - by showing an expression of unhappiness on my face). She then escalated to tell me that I need to leave (the restaraunt) or she would.  I am sure I looked puzzled and shocked at the same time, she then stood a yelled the threat again, so I went outside (in the 20-degree weather so she could "cool off". I spent a few minutes outside in utter bewilderment, and I decided to come back inside to try talking to her again.  Once I reached the table and pulled out my chair, she yelled the "you leave or I will" threat and before I could say "Whoa, wh... ." she bolted for the door.

I got stopped by our server who saw the whole thing (she was 4 feet away) and she said "your check!" so I frantically stopped and got my card and signed and then asked if my wife went outside, the staff all told me she had so I went to find her and she was gone. The story is much, much longer involving her girlfriend coming to get her and I had no way to reach my wife and the restaurant said that our server Carol couldn't help me until I called the police (you can probably guess how that ended up after my wife found out). The police went to her friend's house (where she later admitted she was) but they didn't answer the door. So I spent the next 29 hours awake looking for her.

They next day she was furious about the police and I told her it was because she reacted so severely from a "look" she thought I was wearing on my face to "make her feel guilty" so it alarmed me and the restaurant wouldn't let Carol explain what she saw until I called the police. At that point, she was a nuclear-level and accused me of "hitting her with my shoulder and smiling about it." I was so completely dumbfounded that I didn't even think to reminder her that nobody but 80's high school kids in movies do that shoulder thing and that I wouldn't even do that to a man because: a) it's dumb, and b) I practice Buddhism and I am against violence and my wife of 7 and a half years and friend of 30 knows that.

My daughter and I have experienced these exaggerations of events before but never at this level, and they had been reserved to things at the house... .the problem is that no one else realizes that she is exaggerating because of her feelings overload, so they take what she says at face value and then urge her not to go back.  Meanwhile, my daughter (15 years old) is so stressed out, I had to send her to stay at someone else's house. 

I thought it was "just PTSD" well, that's what I told myself. My psychiatrist, who I see for my ADHD said that whatever this "stress-type" of issue is, we should not tell my wife yet until I could talk to a psychologist (but this was during the holiday period and all I tried were closed), and I tried to get a few people who were both of our friends to help us. But the "friend" I asked to help via a voicemail and explain my Dr. had said, so the friend calls me back and asks me to repeat everything again... .but guess who she had on speaker phone... .my wife.  So my wife stayed away the week before Christmas including the holiday weekend, then I was not able to see her for the entire next week including New Years and at the time, she spent 5 days telling others I have a mental problem then I caught her red-handed telling her friend that she wants to take our company and she "feels confident" she can convince people that I am a "mental case."  When I confronted her about it, she admitted it, but tried to blame it on a friend of mine who is like my brother... ."it's not my fault"... .She then called me two days later apologizing saying that she really did want to work things out... .but by that point, I had been instructed by my psychiatrist to at least temporarily stay somewhere else.  Things seemed to marginally improve and she called me telling me she loved me and asked if I would stay at home that night, and even though I wanted to, I said we probably were not ready for that yet, but I agreed to come home to do some things with her for our business. She said that she was sorry and that she just wanted "us" to trust each other, and I said that's what I want too.

When I arrived, the door inside our garage was locked, and since she was exhibiting major trust issues, I sent her a note letting her know that I was going to unlock the door ( I arrived before her) and she replied saying that was ok, but would I please not put any cameras in the house.  The Buddhist in me should have said, "of course, I would not do that, don't worry." But the exhausted husband in me replied, "can we please try not to be suspicious of each other tonight?"... .no reply... .When she got home, I was working in the garage and she proclaimed that "this is not working, we need to go back to staying to separate places," and she closed the door and locked it (remember I have the key). I stayed in the garage to try and ease her launch sequence, and it stayed the same... .the only relief I got was when she (twice) had to come out in the garage and accidentally locked herself out of the house.  So I handed her my keys both times to let her unlock the door.

I left that night and wrote a long letter to her validating her feelings that my reply worried her and made her hit the "eject button." The next day, she apologized again and repeated that she wants to work things out and that she loves me.  Within 12 hours, though, an email from our bank came through to her email asking how the bank experience was- an email survey - (I went in because my check card was not reading at the store)... .this event set off a conspiracy scare that I was trying to do something with the bank accounts and literally every other day now for the last 5 days, if the wind changes directions, it was because I did something... .the other days, she will tell me how she wants to work things out.

Hi, nice to meet you all.

C.

[madconfu]

Believe it or not, I had to leave out 25% of this... .

I suspect that my wife has BPD and I have severe combination type ADHD, so of course when something had been happening that "just didn't make sense," I would tell her "that didn't make any sense." Big mistake (now, I know... .).

I have known my dear wife for over 30 years. We were neighbors as kids, and I have known her since I was 14 years old. We "met" again after 22 years and although we were just friends in our youth, we fell in love with an almost automatic familiarity and we knew all of the "standard" family history types of things about each other, and then some.  When my wife was 16, she witnessed her older sister take her own life with a gun. I lived down the street and knew of the event within 24 hours. My wife saw a therapist for just a couple of visits and never went back. She has always felt like she warned her parents that something was wrong with her sister, but her sister was an honor student so they tended to tell her she was "trying to get her sister into trouble," and she would get punished, then other times, her sister would steal things and hide them under my wife's bed and let her take the blame.

Ironically, one of the things that led me to a "crush" on her back then was how strong she seemed after that event. I was not even a friend of her sister, who was not even 'nice' to me, but I was so affected by the event, I had a hard time going to school the next week.  She missed school for a few days, but then later returned and seemed like it hadn't happened. 

She was a year ahead of me in school, and after she left for school, we lost touch for 22 years. Fate led us to a meeting again all those years later, and it was magical for almost 5 years, but we got sued by my ex-wife, and while we "won," it cost over $200,000 and was incredibly stressful for us both and the stress of the even helped to uncover my ADHD and treatment was an amazing experience. Symptomatically, I am in the 98th percentile for inattentiveness, so once I started treatment it was like a light came on in in the dark room.  Initially, my wife was thrilled because she had been feeling like I was not paying attention to her since the court case.  But something changed for me and I have been talking to my psychiatrist for almost two years about what I started "noticing" with my wife. I also learned that my wife's ex-husband had been committing malpractice insurance fraud and had a secret apartment and bank account (this is a key point too).

She had begun making more and more references to this court case and she "got screwed" with the court case, and initially felt it was "my fault", and felt that she was "being blamed" for the court case. She began having episodes of anger that far exceeded the situation and eventually, she would start saying very harsh things for disagreements and she would escalate to "I f'ing hate you, I f'ing hate your f'ing guts!" at the top of her lungs, but later (usually a couple of days later), when I asked how she could say something like that to me, she would reply, almost insulted "I never said that."

Fast forward 12 months and we have had several bouts of these types of events and nearly split up twice (but she was the one who threatened to leave).  At first, I wasn't fully aware of what was happening, and part of me didn't want it to be happening, so I would tell myself that "I have known her for 30 years and there is no way I just heard her say that." Much like those outside our relationship now.  I thought it could have been something like PTSD, because she definitely fits nearly all of the qualifying criteria, but I think it was more palatable to me that what I initially hypothesized (which was BPD).

I broke the proverbial rules #1 and likely #2 and #3... .I tried to tell her what I had been witnessing (and I resorted to recording our conversations - although - luckily, I haven't shared those with her, and I have so many examples of her saying things that were so overly exaggerated when she was angry, that they began bordering on harmful to me.  In hindsight, I recognize now that her "feeling outbursts" were likely reactions to the feeling that I was somehow trying to sabotage her or that this man, who she loved more than anything, is "all of a sudden" trying to "get her" or tell everyone she is crazy (which I never have or ever would).  So, like how she has repressed so many painful memories her whole life, including with me, those pain-feelings built up and exploded after she mentioned casually at dinner that she "thinks [she] wants to move upstairs, in our house, to spend time with our dogs," but she then said that after she had a chance to "recharge," she wanted to have a 1-week getaway with me. I thought that sounded better, but she repeated that she wanted to "move upstairs with the dogs." So I am 100% positive that I had an expression of disappointment on my face, but she exclaimed that she "saw the look on my face" and that I "was trying to make her feel guilty." I said that I wasn't and that I was just a little upset to learn that. She then accused me of trying to manipulate her (I later learned - by showing an expression of unhappiness on my face). She then escalated to tell me that I need to leave (the restaraunt) or she would.  I am sure I looked puzzled and shocked at the same time, she then stood a yelled the threat again, so I went outside (in the 20-degree weather so she could "cool off". I spent a few minutes outside in utter bewilderment, and I decided to come back inside to try talking to her again.  Once I reached the table and pulled out my chair, she yelled the "you leave or I will" threat and before I could say "Whoa, wh... ." she bolted for the door.

I got stopped by our server who saw the whole thing (she was 4 feet away) and she said "your check!" so I frantically stopped and got my card and signed and then asked if my wife went outside, the staff all told me she had so I went to find her and she was gone. The story is much, much longer involving her girlfriend coming to get her and I had no way to reach my wife and the restaurant said that our server Carol couldn't help me until I called the police (you can probably guess how that ended up after my wife found out). The police went to her friend's house (where she later admitted she was) but they didn't answer the door. So I spent the next 29 hours awake looking for her.

They next day she was furious about the police and I told her it was because she reacted so severely from a "look" she thought I was wearing on my face to "make her feel guilty" so it alarmed me and the restaurant wouldn't let Carol explain what she saw until I called the police. At that point, she was a nuclear-level and accused me of "hitting her with my shoulder and smiling about it." I was so completely dumbfounded that I didn't even think to reminder her that nobody but 80's high school kids in movies do that shoulder thing and that I wouldn't even do that to a man because: a) it's dumb, and b) I practice Buddhism and I am against violence and my wife of 7 and a half years and friend of 30 knows that.

My daughter and I have experienced these exaggerations of events before but never at this level, and they had been reserved to things at the house... .the problem is that no one else realizes that she is exaggerating because of her feelings overload, so they take what she says at face value and then urge her not to go back.  Meanwhile, my daughter (15 years old) is so stressed out, I had to send her to stay at someone else's house. 

I thought it was "just PTSD" well, that's what I told myself. My psychiatrist, who I see for my ADHD said that whatever this "stress-type" of issue is, we should not tell my wife yet until I could talk to a psychologist (but this was during the holiday period and all I tried were closed), and I tried to get a few people who were both of our friends to help us. But the "friend" I asked to help via a voicemail and explain my Dr. had said, so the friend calls me back and asks me to repeat everything again... .but guess who she had on speaker phone... .my wife.  So my wife stayed away the week before Christmas including the holiday weekend, then I was not able to see her for the entire next week including New Years and at the time, she spent 5 days telling others I have a mental problem then I caught her red-handed telling her friend that she wants to take our company and she "feels confident" she can convince people that I am a "mental case."  When I confronted her about it, she admitted it, but tried to blame it on a friend of mine who is like my brother... ."it's not my fault"... .She then called me two days later apologizing saying that she really did want to work things out... .but by that point, I had been instructed by my psychiatrist to at least temporarily stay somewhere else.  Things seemed to marginally improve and she called me telling me she loved me and asked if I would stay at home that night, and even though I wanted to, I said we probably were not ready for that yet, but I agreed to come home to do some things with her for our business. She said that she was sorry and that she just wanted "us" to trust each other, and I said that's what I want too.

When I arrived, the door inside our garage was locked, and since she was exhibiting major trust issues, I sent her a note letting her know that I was going to unlock the door ( I arrived before her) and she replied saying that was ok, but would I please not put any cameras in the house.  The Buddhist in me should have said, "of course, I would not do that, don't worry." But the exhausted husband in me replied, "can we please try not to be suspicious of each other tonight?"... .no reply... .When she got home, I was working in the garage and she proclaimed that "this is not working, we need to go back to staying to separate places," and she closed the door and locked it (remember I have the key). I stayed in the garage to try and ease her launch sequence, and it stayed the same... .the only relief I got was when she (twice) had to come out in the garage and accidentally locked herself out of the house.  So I handed her my keys both times to let her unlock the door.

I left that night and wrote a long letter to her validating her feelings that my reply worried her and made her hit the "eject button." The next day, she apologized again and repeated that she wants to work things out and that she loves me.  Within 12 hours, though, an email from our bank came through to her email asking how the bank experience was- an email survey - (I went in because my check card was not reading at the store)... .this event set off a conspiracy scare that I was trying to do something with the bank accounts and literally every other day now for the last 5 days, if the wind changes directions, it was because I did something... .the other days, she will tell me how she wants to work things out.

Hi, nice to meet you all.

C.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

Hi madconfu,

Welcome and hello 

It takes a great deal of strength to be in these relationships and not be emotionally injured. 

If you feel emotionally weakened, or wounded/abused/depressed, it's easy to feel consumed by what happens in the relationship. People with BPD have a harder time seeing the big picture, and want to focus on things one inch above the ground.

You have to be able to hold the big picture in your mind while acknowledging and accepting how she sees things. It's a challenging line to walk!

What's an example of how you validate her feelings?

Maybe we can start there and walk alongside you.

LnL

[madconfu]

Thanks for the reply LnL.

I have recently been exposed to the "LEAP" methodology "Listen, Empathize, Agree, Partner." I try to show that I listen by restating what I heard her say and I _try_ (it's very hard still) to say that if I experienced what she did, I would probably feel the same way. Agreeing with her when she has an outburst is hard, so I try to find things that we do agree on and direct the conversation that way, then I say that "it's okay to agree to disagree sometimes since everyone can understand a different meaning from the same situation sometimes." Then I _try_ (again, it's very hard) to say something like, "I agree that these situations seem confusing" and I say "why don't we go talk to someone to help us figure it out." She is very suspicious and this technique is new to me, so I need a lot more practice.  She will also go to both ends of the spectrum, one day literally saying that she wants to work things out and that she "really, truly" does want things to get better, but then the very next day, she will act like I am up to something and almost anything will trigger it.

[Gocats123]

You mentioned something that really jumped out at me: "... .later (usually a couple of days later), when I asked how she could say something like that to me, she would reply, almost insulted "I never said that.""

Yes, familiar!
This definitely rings a bell with me. My wife, (diagnosed Bipolar, but I suspect also BPD/NPD) does the same thing. She will say and do some pretty astounding things, then later deny she said or did anything. She will seem perplexed that I would suggest these things had ever happened. It would be easy to conclude she is lying, but the thing is, I'm pretty sure she believes she is telling the truth. A couple of things might be happening, but this is just all based on my observations, so I have no idea the validity of these theories:

THEORY #1: She disassociates when angry. Later, she honestly has no recollection of what she did.
THEORY #2: She believes whatever she says (at the time) is true. And she believes it with such conviction that there isn't enough room in her thinking to recall the opposite.
THEORY #3: She is so sensitive to rejection/criticism that accepting she did something inappropriate would be like accepting criticism, or believing that she is "bad" and cannot tolerate this, so it's quite simply wiped from the memory banks.

Related phenomena might include:
1.) State-dependent memory. (If someone is happy, they only remember things that happened when they were happy, or the "good times;" If sad, only remember the bad times.)
2.) Black and white thinking. (Unable to hold opposite viewpoints - super related to state-dependent memory.)
3.) Substituting feelings for facts. ("If I feel it, it must be true."

Alright, so that's a lot of theory. I'm trying to understand this stuff, obviously, but also want to validate that this switching the truth can really drive a person batty. What you are experiencing must really be difficult. With my wife, I always said that it isn't that she's lying, but that the truth is a moving target.

What's helped me so far
A big thing for me has been to be in therapy. I've learned a lot about myself, and I am starting to realize how I could wind up with a person like my wife. Being accountable for the choices I've made doesn't excuse her behavior at all. But it does empower me.

I can only imagine what you are going through, and am really sorry this is happening in your life. And I realize I'm focusing on only this one part of your situation. I obviously feel for what you are experiencing throughout; not just this one portion of it. It really jumped out at me because this is something I'm trying to make sense of. Anyone else find the truth is difficult to nail down? Does anyone know what this is, or where we can go to learn more about this specific phenomenon?

[livednlearned]

She is very suspicious and this technique is new to me, so I need a lot more practice.  She will also go to both ends of the spectrum, one day literally saying that she wants to work things out and that she "really, truly" does want things to get better, but then the very next day, she will act like I am up to something and almost anything will trigger it.

In my experience, people with BPD are extraordinarily perceptive and hyper attuned to cues.

Of the relationship/communication skills discussed here (like SET, validation, DEARMAN, etc.), I found that while the words matter, my facial expression, my tone of voice, eye contact, body language -- all of that is equally important.

Also learned recently that sometimes not saying anything at all, while being physically present (and taking a few beats to try to understand emotionally) can be more effective.

I wonder if your wife is picking up on subtle cues that your words sound good, and some parts of your presentation are convincing, while something is not entirely lining up on her unconscious checklist of sincerity?

Your wife may also need drama, and will go looking for it, creating it if she cannot find it and finding some relief when others around her finally experience the same degree of drama, a way to rig validation (e.g. I'm in a crisis, and now you are too, so we're good).

(Gocats123, you may appreciate Masterson's In Search of the Real Self to understand one theory about BPD, to understand how the theories you mention and the related phenomena are connected.)

[Gocats123]

Thanks livednlearned, for your helpful suggestion. I've purchased the book and have begun to read.

livednlearned also mentioned BPDs being highly preceptive and hyper-attuned to clues. That's something I have observed in my wife. And the description of, "I'm in a crisis, and now you are too, so we're good" sounds familiar too.

madconfu, you mentioned your daughter in your post. The impact this can have on children can be quite profound. This must be a difficult situation for you to navigate. My biggest concern with my wife is how her behaviors impact our 3 young children.