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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Conflicted over ambiguous relationship  (Read 397 times)
anna58
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« on: January 15, 2017, 12:41:31 AM »

I was posting on the detaching boards but got hit pretty hard when they suggested I wasn't really detaching because I wanted my family to invite him for xmas or family dinners. why should they when they know he is a jerk?. I am confused, because he is living with me and doesn't have anywhere else to go on xmas. I feel very ashamed that I am the one in the family with some weird guy hanging around me who they don't like.

He lives with me and we are very close and sometimes sexual. He says he isn't monogamous and when he was away for a year in Europe, he was involved with another woman. He has no sense of romantic feelings--I told him she was upset because she had loving feelings for him and he wasn't going back to visit her. I imagine she is feeling abandoned. He can't understand it. Is that a BPD thing? He is a narc and wants her to understand that he can't come because he needs an apt and income. But I am sure he promised her the world when he was with her and they were off on a "high" together.

We are close. But he would leave in a minute if something more exciting came along. He is living with me in a small town, has little money and no home of his own. He is using me, says my therapist. And I think he is. I know he won't ever be a true boyfriend.

What hurts  is the time and emotion I invested in living with him. We have become close, but it will be a big loss when he leaves. yet, he won't leave. It is all on his terms. He will leave when it is convenient for him and it is not about me or what I need. Though he will pitch it as if it is about me.

So, he lives with me but with no commitment to stay or be a boyfriend. I put up with it and feel ashamed.

Soon, I am moving and do not want him to live with me.  He manipulates and twists words... .says if the place I plan to move doesn't work out, we can pool our resources for a few months and share a place. I have always been very clear I don't want to live together. He keeps bringing it up.

He refuses to leave when I need my apt to myself; I'd have to lock him out and can't bring myself to do that. This has recycled many times. He visits for a supposedly short time, overstays his welcome and won't leave. I can't bear to lock him out. We end up living our lives together.

Here is why I feel nuts:  I enjoy a lot of the time with him and feel connected to him. But I see he is  emotionally abusive, too.
And the shame for not standing my ground, for letting this continue.

Thank you for any support, feedback, understanding.

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livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2017, 08:58:14 AM »

Hi anna58,

Asserting boundaries can be really hard if you aren't used to doing that with loved ones. If your family of origin raised you to put their needs first, you might equate guilt with taking care of yourself.

That's a lot to undo! Instead of setting yourself up for a big boundary, can you start with something small? A boundary in a BPD/NPD relationship needs to be something that you can control. It may be something you don't even mention to him. For example, if he starts to raise his voice, your boundary might be that you hold up your hand and tell him you need a time out, then go for a walk to leave the room.

It might be that you don't talk to him about other women. If he brings it up, your boundary may be that you don't ask any questions or indicate interest in hearing more.

Once you experience small boundaries, you gain some strength and confidence, especially as you work through the feelings that come up, talking to a therapist and friends here.

Does that sound do-able? What are some small boundaries you could experiment with?
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anna58
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 06:15:48 PM »

Thank you Livednlearned. Good advice.
I did one boundary that felt great---no more affection such as hug or hand holding.

My feelings/mood goes up and down throughout the day.  He is happy and engaged and I respond. Then he says something manipulative and I realize what is going on and feel furious (don't communicate that to him). And also feel sad.

In one week I have to move and it is unclear where I am moving to. I am on the verge of being homeless. It is stressful and frightening.  He wants me to listen to him go over potential plans for his move... .one of which is going to be with that woman in Europe. This morning he was in a great mood because he thinks he will do that. But he "doesn't abandon anyone if they need him" so he will help me if I need it.  That is ultra lame and makes him sound good to others. But he isn't doing anything for me. I am so furious.

The reality is we are not a couple, not in a relationship, he is dragging me down, and playing with my affections.

I need help thinking of one boundary to set as I move out of here and he moves on. What I don't want to happen is him to happily leave for the other woman in Europe the same day that I close the doors on my home and go somewhere I don't even know where yet. 

I want him to get the message that this is it. He can never stay with me again.

I have a therapist and one friend to talk with about this.
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2017, 06:15:06 PM »


I want him to get the message that this is it. He can never stay with me again.
 

What does "get the message" mean?  What does it look like?

When you tell him this, what does he say that indicates he DOES NOT get it?

Broad truth:  Some people don't "get" things by talking.  They only "get" or "understand" things when they experience it.  Perhaps that means he won't get it until the finds a locked door... .that stays locked.  We me never know.  Very frustrating that some people are like this.

FF
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2017, 06:34:30 PM »

And the shame for not standing my ground, for letting this continue.

What are you getting out of letting this continue?

That question isn't coming from a place of judgment. I have been there, done that and am still working on it.

I kicked ex out 9 months ago. We have been together for almost 20 years. There were a lot of years in the end where he and I talked about going our separate ways. He used the kids as leverage to get me to give in. He was chasing other women. I had a boyfriend for a time and it was a mess. I couldn't bring myself to make him leave. I thought about leaving at one point but couldn't work up the courage to do it. I was in this state of married/non married and it was confusing. I was afraid of setting boundaries because I was afraid of being mean. I was afraid of hurting him. It was easier to take the path of least resistance because I just did not have the courage or strength to say no.

Are there things you can do to help yourself get stronger? It took a lot of time for me to get to that place where I was able to kick him out and make it stick. The day he left, it took every ounce of strength I had to NOT tell him to stay. He was being all weird and I could tell that he was waiting for me to say "Never mind, you can stay."

Even though I hated that state of ambiguity and my emotions were all over the place, it was still familiar and comfortable. It was an awful place to be but I found some sort of odd comfort there. Being out of it is also uncomfortable but at least I am finally able to process some of this stuff. When I was living with him in that state of ambiguity, nothing made sense.

Hang in there!
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anna58
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 11:14:29 PM »

Vortex of confusion: I love your name. Ha. Perfect. And thank you for telling me your story, which helps me feel understood. And it helps me understand myself.

I have felt so very ashamed and upset with myself that I haven't been able to make him leave. Friends and family know it, and I feel judged and "weak" in their eyes. But in my own view of myself, too.
I get it---taking all your will not to give him and to make sure he leaves.

Today I am preparing to move to a new apt that is Section 8 and he can't move there with me. He knows it. He is all over the map about where to go. It is very sad to see how incapable he is of thinking his way through this and making a practical decision. Is this a BPD cognitive issue?

I am not feeling so ambiguous today as I have taken hold of my strength and ability to move forward. It is a natural conclusion of the time with him--because I have to leave the apt and move into another one alone. I feel a bit lucky that it is happening this way.  That said, I'm pretty sure he will have a reaction that isn't good. He is often a waif type--he will have a panic attack or feel like he can't breathe or he loses his voice and panics, etc.  He needs help then, from a friend or medical person, and he is a mess.  It is important for me not to try to save him.

I really don't like knowing how this is going to turn out.  One day at a time. Or as a friend of mine said jokingly, "One horrible day at a time."
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anna58
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 11:22:13 PM »

To respond to your questions:

1.What does "getting the message" mean?

That I want him to leave. I have asked him many times over the years. He doesn't leave and it comes down to my either locking him out, or not. I have not been able to bring myself to lock him out.  I am not sure that I deliver the message very well. On a couple occasions I have yelled at him to get out. He doesn't. Other times I have talked with him about it--that he can't stay with me anymore because it it making me sick (I have a chronic health problem).  His need to stay connected and have a place to live was more important that being a decent person to me and leaving.

2. What do I get out of letting this connection continue?
Oh, I get some attention and affection. Someone to be my "person" to live daily life with. I've gone through some difficult things with very little support and so sharing with my uBPD felt good a lot of the time. Then I got stuck in it and couldn't get out.  My family of origin is very cold, distant, and shut down. So any bit of caring and attention can feel huge and wonderful to me.

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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 08:21:59 AM »

  I have not been able to bring myself to lock him out.  I am not sure that I deliver the message very well. 


How can it not deliver the message well?

Two examples

1.  You say:  I don't want you to live here anymore.  He says "your don't really mean that".  He comes that night and finds door locked.  He knocks for an hour... .cries and wails... .he is NOT let in. 

Did you give him consistent messages in this instance?

2.  You say:  I don't want you to live here anymore.  He says "you don't really man that".  He comes that night and finds open door... .or perhaps a locked door that opens after his wailing. 

Did you give him a consistent message in this instance?

FF
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livednlearned
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 08:55:06 AM »

This is not easy to say... .but it can be an act of love to let someone with BPD experience the full force of their abandonment depression. You cannot truly help him if your role simply becomes soothing his anxiety, because his anxiety is there to defend himself from experiencing the depression that stunted his emotional and psychological development.

Every time we (the nonBPD partner) rescue or save or fix them (BPD partner), we just become part of their mind's dysfunctional tactics to avoid pain. Nothing improves, nothing gets better, it's a temporary patch that gives the illusion of safety.

I have witnessed two BPD loved ones become overwhelmed with separation stress, and both responded with psychosis. As scary as that is (for them and us), it seems to me it's the body's way of sending a flare to let people know serious (trained, skilled) help is needed. We increase the odds of them getting real help when we stop saving them from themselves.

If you cannot get him to leave, you are not the person who can help him. People with BPD have no boundaries, and they desperately need those boundaries to feel secure. The sad part is that they have powerful compulsions to stay bonded while using awful defensive strategies to separate, which is why we get so darn confused!

Asserting boundaries (e.g. things you have control over) is an act of love.

It also takes strength to get there, to assert those boundaries. Which is why starting with something small and building up might be the best path. Don't give him your new address, for example. Or change your phone number. Something to change a deeply ingrained habit to let him do whatever he wants, when he wants.

He needs limits and his loved ones need to set them for him.

I know it's tough

LnL

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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 03:59:51 PM »

Excerpt
Every time we (the nonBPD partner) rescue or save or fix them (BPD partner), we just become part of their mind's dysfunctional tactics to avoid pain. Nothing improves, nothing gets better, it's a temporary patch that gives the illusion of safety.

Agree, LnL.  I would add that caretaking/rescuing a pwBPD is a way for the Non to avoid self-care, so it's unhealthy for both pwBPD and Non.  LJ
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