Dealing with mom's delusions and setting boundaries

[Notwendy]

My mother seems to need some kind of fantasy- the next thing- the thing that I guess she thinks is better than what she has.

Some of her ideas are unrealistic, and many she doesn't have the capacity to carry out on her own. He main way of getting what she wants has been to manipulate people to do things for her, or rage at one of her family members to do it.

Saying no to her basically leads to her dissociating and raging, so reasoning is not effective. I'm not afraid of her rages- I used to be but that isn't an issue.

But she often drama baits- says things to me to see my reaction- then if I do react, makes a big drama about it, with her as victim. We've learned to not react to most of her ideas- they don't happen anyway.

When my father was alive, but ill, they brought up the idea of moving closer to me. I had mixed feelings about this, (because of her)  but being in the best position to help him, I agreed to it at the time. They showed an interest in a community for elderly people not too far from me but my father died before they took any steps to move. I don't know if it was all talk or they were serious.

From time to time, my mother brings up this idea. I still have mixed feelings about this, but she hasn't put things in motion to act on her ideas. When she brings it up, I just say as little as possible- not react, because I know to react makes drama and doesn't result in any discussion that would lead to anything reasonable. I also know that she can basically do what she wants as a legal adult- move wherever, whether I like it or not- and she doesn't consider what I would want anyway, so a discussion is futile.

I see her when I visit her. I don't invite her to visit. She doesn't drive and it would be impractical for her to hire a driver to see me. Yet, sometimes in the middle of a conversation on the phone - she will say something like " I'm going to just come see you- won't you like that ?" huh? Huh? I'm usually in shock for a few seconds when she says that.

Mostly, I feel as if she is drama baiting. I know that it looks odd to her peers that she isn't invited to see her family like they are, but they don't know the relationship. She's done this before and if I protest at all, it becomes a scene. I wonder if she wants the scene? She's also painted this fantasy to her friends and FOO that she is moving near me soon, and yet, there are no plans to do so.

She has many reasons to not move. She can not live on her own and would need to be in some kind of facility. This would mean her giving up some control and she has complete control of her world where she is- in her own home with people she hires to help her. As soon as she senses they are on to her, she paints them black and fires them. She would not be able to do this somewhere else. It is quite clear to both of us that she can not live with me. That boundary has been set.

Mom has done what she wants her whole life. Her will ruled our family life and it isn't about to change now. All I can do is be prepared with boundaries if she ever carried out this idea. In the meantime, I don't know if there is a better way to respond to her statements " I am coming to see you" or "I am moving near you". Saying anything- has no real affect. Boundaries mean nothing to her. But I feel I need to make some things clear- if she does move- she will need to make her own arrangements. I am not dropping everything to be at her beck and call. It may not even happen anyway.

I don't know anyway to be proactive with an elderly parent like her. When dad was sick, I tried to get involved with helping to some extent- such as helping them look at places to live, managing funding. He was the one capable of sanity with these things- except when it came to her. For her, it was constant raging and tantruming to have her way with everything. She got it. Dad died, left her the bank account and the house and she's done what she wants ever since. All I know to do is enforce boundaries when needed, but if there's any other advice, I'd like to hear it. I have POA, but only if she is incapable of being her own advocate. I didn't choose to go NC because she is elderly, but I will not take on any major responsibility for her.

I'm puzzled by her fantasy. I was her black child. We've not ever had a good relationship and I am cordial to her at best. I know she is alone and that is part of it, but she doesn't even really like me.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey Notwendy:   

You have a tough situation with your mom.  I think you are handling it well and your strategy to not engage in an argument is a good one.  Are there any family members that live closer to her than you? 

I tend to think that you are likely right, that she won't likely move to be near you.  It would take a lot of effort, money and disruption to do that.  If finances are something she tends to worry about, maybe just telling her she needs to review her finances, might shut her up next time she brings up the subject of moving.

How old is your mom?  Any signs of memory loss/dementia?

I can see that it has to be disturbing to think about your mom moving close to you.  Try to postpone the fear, until such a time that she indicates she has her home for sale and someone is assisting her with finding a place near you.  If you don't assist her, is there someone in the family that might jump in and do that (against your wishes)?





 

[Notwendy]

Thanks, NN. My mother is in her 80's. She is in good medical and mental state- with the exception of BPD. She would be a high functioning BPD except for the emotional liability. I don't think she was capable of holding a job, but being a housewife was the common situation for women her age. She didn't do much of that either. We often wondered what she did during the day when we were in school.

She's a force to be reckoned with. Dad left her enough money to do what she wants. It's pretty amazing- since there was no money to help me with college. Yet, we kids consider the fact that he did leave her with enough to take care of herself as a blessing.

She did have FOO who would have helped her move, but more and more, they are spending less time with her. I suspect they have gotten a glimpse of what she is like with the people closest to her- something they didn't see when my father was around to help keep her stable. She is usually on her best behavior with them. If they don't help her, she can hire people to do that.

She prefers to hire people to help her who enable her. If anyone stands up to her or suggests there are issues, she fires them. This to me is the biggest thing that would keep her from moving, and what I suspect kept my parents from moving when my father was alive. Letting health care professionals into their lives risked exposing her. My father had a series of caretakers who were often painted black and then they changed caretakers. In a retirement/continuing care situation, she would lose that ability to control this.

I suspect this is posturing for her friends. Most of them have a good relationship with their grown children. We do visit, but it is pretty obvious that we are distant. I am the child closest to her geographically. She has been telling her friends and FOO about her plans to move near me for a while. Yet, there are not any concrete plans.

My parents did attempt this at one time, a long time ago, and I did protest. Then, my father got angry at me, so I took the protest back, even made attempts to help them move- looked for places that they might like. They refused all of them.They had painted me black to family and friends, telling them their terrible daughter won't have them near her. This is also before I understood BPD. It seemed to me that they preferred the story that I wouldn't let them move over really wanting to move.

This is why I think it is a cover and that she may be baiting me. If I made any kind of commenting protest, I think she may do the same thing. I am not sure she really wants to move, but she'd have no obvious reason to not move if I was all for it and she'd not let on to the real reason- she controls who helps her. Sometimes I wonder if she is baiting me with her " I'm coming to see you" comments.

[muff]

Mostly, I feel as if she is drama baiting. I know that it looks odd to her peers that she isn't invited to see her family like they are, but they don't know the relationship. She's done this before and if I protest at all, it becomes a scene. I wonder if she wants the scene?

If she's anything like my mother, she probably does want the scene. I've heard BPD described as people very good at starting fires and then playing the burn victim. But I wonder what would happen if you called her bluff. Like indulging her fantasy, but then couching it in terms where you would then take control over her situation. I've never called my mother's bluff, but then, most of my life I never realized I was being manipulated, either. I'm not sure I would be strong enough or skilled enough to call her bluff, but has anyone ever tried that with a BPD? Or would they just thrive on that?

[Harri]

Hi Notwendy.  This is a tricky situation given the history and disordered behaviors of your mother (yes, I know I just stated the obvious!  )

Have you considered just replying with "I hear that you want to move closer.  Have you worked out the logistics like care takers and drivers?" and then just wait.  She may have a plan, she may not, but the ball will be back in her court and it will set the stage for allowing you to make it clear that she will have to hire people to help her ... .or rather, it would if she were capable of hearing such a message.  I still think this approach might work because then you can make an even more direct statement about your involvement, or lack of involvement, in her care.

I see a couple of benefis in this approach.  First, it takes away that dangling bit of uncertainty that you have every time she mentions it.   You will know just how serious she is by whether she has developed any plans and if so, if they can be successful or (hopefully?) bound to fail.  Second, it opens the door for you to be direct and let her know she will have the same situation in a new location as she has now---> almost no involvement from you and having to hire aides.  I do not see the latter as a problem as it sounds like she has the fiunds for it.  She can get herself a one level condo and have daily help or even live in help.  There are lots of ways to work this without going into a formal assisted living situation if she has the money for it.

What do you think?  Am I way off base?

[Notwendy]

Harri, I think your suggestion is good. She does keep me posted on plans- and so far there aren't any concrete ones. I have been clear about my boundaries of being too involved- she knows she needs to hire a caretaker. I've also expressed my wish for her to be in a community. She has lived where she is now for decades. She has a circle of friends, ( those she hasn't alienated, but she's at her best with them, and extended FOO. I've expressed concern that she won't know anyone where she moves, and she actually agrees that a community situation with activities would be better for her. So far, her only action has been to make contact with some she may like- but no plans to move at a certain time.

I have asked her why would she want to leave her support system and she dismisses that.

I know what she wants and it is a fantasy. She wants what her friends have- the grandchildren having a relationship with them. She imagines that if she moves near me, the grandkids will spend time with her. She's way off- aside from the fact that she has alienated them, by the time she would get things going to move, they will be off to college, on their own. In her own FOO, the grandkids have stayed close to home- went to nearby colleges- and are home a lot. This isn't my kids' plans.

Many of my friends are helping their elderly parents. I wanted to help ( this was before I understood BPD) When my father got sick, I did try to step in to help. But mom was not about to turn over any control. She caused a scene. I tried to get a handle on their finances, in case Dad could not manage things by himself - and she screamed that I was trying to steal her money or something like that.  There's more to the story as you could imagine. Sibs tried to help- she went into victim mode, dad "rescued" her by getting angry, we kids had to disengage. Then she told everyone that her terrible children deserted them.

This is one reason I think she is trying to cause a reaction- and then throw a scene. We have remained in contact, but we have not stepped in to handle things for her. She did make me POA but that would only take effect if she was not able to make decisions. Her situation doesn't "look good" to her friends and FOO who have close relationships with their children and grandchildren. I understand that she would want that in a way too, besides how it looks. I don't know if she wants to move, or is just telling people that. Or if she is trying to bait me into being the terrible daughter who won't let her. Actually, she could just say that anyway.