Two light bulbs just went off re: my BPD mother

[muff]

Two things that have puzzled me:

1. Why I have such a hard time in social situations, putting forth a friendly demeanor, giving compliments, approaching people, etc. I'm extremely shy, but why? I was sort of a ham when I was a toddler, or so I've heard.

and

2. Why does my ex-BF (who is now a codependent pseudo-son to my mother even though our relationship has ended) not see what my mother is doing, even though he experienced the very same behavior I did when she lived with us? And why does he not see it even after I have explained it to him at length, ad nauseum, till I'm blue?

But now, because I better understand the BPD mindset and structure and potential fallout, I think I understand both of these puzzles much better!

1. I have never felt comfortable being overly friendly or overtly complimenting people because my mother does this sort of thing to the EXTREME. She flatters, flirts, and downright lies to people in order to win friends and "allies." Growing up, this type of over-friendliness probably seemed phony to me, since I knew what she was like at home and what she said about these people behind their back. And so, I went to the other extreme of withdrawing, becoming shy and introverted. Already I'm finding myself becoming more friendly and outgoing, but I'm doing it from a place of authenticity, and being careful to avoid any type of behavior that I think might be considered BPD.

and

2. Even though my ex-BF lived in the same house with my mother that I did for a year, his experience with her was night and day from mine. I had grown up with my mother as her golden child. But when she moved in with me and my boyfriend two years ago, she painted me black and turned my "white knight" ex-BF into her golden child (and more, she also flirted with him and attempted to turn him into my newly-deceased father). So right there, the golden child and the scapegoat are going to come away from that experience seeing it vastly different. I already sort of understood that, but today I was reading about the four "types" of BPD mother, and my mother has always been a Queen with me, all my life. She's still very much a Queen. BUT -- oh my gosh! -- she is not a Queen with my ex-BF! She is most definitely a Waif! This realization was HUGE to me! So to this golden child man with white knight syndrome, saving my mother the Waif was a totally different experience than it was for me, the recently discarded scapegoat dealing with a Queen! And I remember strange times when we three were living together when she did literally Queen it up with me, and then turn around and face my ex-BF as a Waif. Woah.

Oh my gosh! Thank you for this website, and for this information! (And sorry for all the capitalized words, but I'm just so excited to finally GET THIS!)

[Basenji]

Two things that have puzzled me:

1. Why I have such a hard time in social situations, putting forth a friendly demeanor, giving compliments, approaching people, etc. I'm extremely shy, but why? I was sort of a ham when I was a toddler, or so I've heard.

and

2. Why does my ex-BF (who is now a codependent pseudo-son to my mother even though our relationship has ended) not see what my mother is doing, even though he experienced the very same behavior I did when she lived with us? And why does he not see it even after I have explained it to him at length, ad nauseum, till I'm blue?

But now, because I better understand the BPD mindset and structure and potential fallout, I think I understand both of these puzzles much better!

Yes, it is a really good feeling when things start to fall into place! Good job! Please may I share some comparative insights / experiences?

1) I too was extremely shy as a child and into adulthood. I only really overcame this when I went for a sales job and learned about communication techniques, which eventually became second nature as my social confidence grew. Looking back now I had always assumed I was just a naturally shy person. But I now strongly suspect that the various behaviours of my borderline mother created a substantial degree of emotional and psychological co-dependence. I may have been naturally shy, if so, my mother's behaviours served to accentuate the tendency.

In my experience, borderlines effectively manipulate to achieve emotional and psychological entrapment! Also, they may not provide a worthy role model to guide social interactions. The net effect may be to promote less socially confident and socially competent individuals, when, arguably, a healthy parental role would be the opposite (to instil a desire to seek out and the capacity to engage in positive social interactions).

I have had to allow myself to see what was really going on (rather than shelve or deny it) and accept that my borderline mother has had an affect in so many ways more than I would care to admit! Looking back, I suspect my social shyness was part of the package of living with a borderline mother!


2) One of the hardest facets of borderlines is the way they chop and change, sometimes within minutes! Golden child one day, pariah the next! Negative behaviours completely hidden from some and concentrated on others!

Furthermore, it is my experience that the psychological "role plays" that may underpin the BPD mother's personas can add a vexing layer of complexity to the situation. In my case my mother transferred the role of partner onto me as the child after she had split from my father. I understand that the technical term for this is emotional incest (when applied to adult child relationships).

Clearly, borderlines have the capacity to seek inappropriate relationships! It is possible for the borderline to seek a substitute for the partner relationship in another who is not an appropriate choice having split up from or lost their own partner! In that dynamic, anyone competing for the affections of the substitute partner could be subject to the negative borderline behaviour set! Since things are never simple, that dynamic might shift around... .


... I do hope those light bulbs continue to shine brightly for you!



 

[muff]

Clearly, borderlines have the capacity to seek inappropriate relationships! It is possible for the borderline to seek a substitute for the partner relationship in another who is not an appropriate choice having split up from or lost their own partner! In that dynamic, anyone competing for the affections of the substitute partner could be subject to the negative borderline behaviour set!

Oh my gosh - more insight! (This is awesome!) I hadn't thought of this, but yes, it makes perfect sense. I wasn't just painted black because the ex-BF was a better "son" - I was painted black because I was now her competition for this male partner! Wow. This needs to sit for a while in my brain. A lot to process.

I remember one day my mother and ex-BF came home from taking our dog to the vet. She came running in the house weeping and sobbing and yelling my name. I shot up off the couch, thinking there had been a car accident or something, and she came in the room screaming, "It's all my fault! It's all my fault!"

So I'm shouting back, What? What? And what was it she was screaming about, that was all her fault? She made the dog's appointment at the wrong vet. I remember at the time thinking maybe she was losing her mind or becoming senile or, I just wasn't sure. But this was NEVER the type of behavior my BPD Queen Mother would have exhibited toward me. To me she was always in complete control, dressed to perfection, and she often told me how smart and competent she was, and she loved to show that persona to the world, as well. But that all went by the wayside when it became clear to her that in order to win my ex-BF's affections, she would need to become a helpless, dramatic, pathetic Waif. I'm so thankful to finally understand this. Boy, it was hard there for a while feeling like my own FOO reality just no longer made any sense whatsoever. Thanks for shedding more light, Basenji.

[muff]

Oh, and wait a minute! I just remembered something about the screaming dog vet day... .my ex-BF told me later that in the car on the way home she wasn't hysterical at all. But she was concerned that I would be angry. And the ex-BF was like, why would she be angry? Well, she did succeed in MAKING me angry - I was so mad that she scared me half to death - I almost puked from the shot of adrenaline her drama had given me. And she was pitting my ex-BF and I against one another (I had witnessed that many times), so this was just another way to do that. Set up the situation, predicting that I would get mad, and then making it happen so that my mother would be victimized by my anger and the ex-BF could then comfort her and, once again, take her side and defend her.

Boy, was I played.

[Basenji]

this was NEVER the type of behavior my BPD Queen Mother would have exhibited toward me. To me she was always in complete control, dressed to perfection, and she often told me how smart and competent she was, and she loved to show that persona to the world, as well. But that all went by the wayside when it became clear to her that in order to win my ex-BF's affections, she would need to become a helpless, dramatic, pathetic Waif. I'm so thankful to finally understand this.

If it is possible that mother was in competition for ex-BF, maybe, just maybe, it is possible that she had previously been in competition with you. Just perhaps... .previously she was parading in front of you because it made her validated in some way... .more social confident, better dressed, superior, etc. Putting her needs for social status and gratification above yours when it should have been the other way around in a parent-child dynamic. You were the mirror that made her look better - at least in her mind!

Telling you how smart and competent she was has a possible flip side - that she regards herself to be smarter and more competent than you! She deserves the attention more than you do!

Whereas the son of the borderline may face emotional incest issues, the daughter may find herself in competition!

From Markham's Behavioural Health:Borderline Parenting: "queen mothers compete with their daughters for time, attention, love and money".

Some years ago I took my mother to a large art gallery opening in Sydney. The moment I started to talk to girls at the function my mother insisted on being taken home - pretended she was getting drunk and had to leave immediately!  On another occasion she was so threatened by a recently ex girlfriend (who had moved out of my house just before mother came to stay) that had daily tantrums over the exGF's mail arriving in my mailbox and insisted on going to the Post Office to set up the redirect ("not your concern, mother!" - she was also convinced the exGF had moved out temporarily as part of a conspiracy against her... .borderlines have an enormous capacity to engage in jealous and competitive behaviours!

[Basenji]

Oh, and wait a minute! I just remembered something about the screaming dog vet day... .my ex-BF told me later that in the car on the way home she wasn't hysterical at all. But she was concerned that I would be angry. And the ex-BF was like, why would she be angry? Well, she did succeed in MAKING me angry - I was so mad that she scared me half to death - I almost puked from the shot of adrenaline her drama had given me. And she was pitting my ex-BF and I against one another (I had witnessed that many times), so this was just another way to do that. Set up the situation, predicting that I would get mad, and then making it happen so that my mother would be victimized by my anger and the ex-BF could then comfort her and, once again, take her side and defend her.

Boy, was I played.

Oh my - what a story!

Is it OK to say that I am a little troubled by the exBFs role in the experiences you have kindly shared.

It is only my opinion - I regard it to be important for any future GF in my own case to be solid in their support for me in the face of my own family situation. Comprehending the mysteries of a borderline can be very novel for those lacking direct experience, but someone with genuine empathy and concern should be able to at least grasp the significance of the situation... .

[muff]

Is it OK to say that I am a little troubled by the exBFs role in the experiences you have kindly shared.

Most people are troubled by his behavior when I tell them. In fact, most people are amazed by his behavior. The day I moved out of our shared house, my mother had picked a fight with me, and then called ex-BF to "tell on me" and get him to take her side. So, once again, I told her to stop treating my boyfriend like her confidante, which only escalated the fight. She wondered if it might be better if I moved out. Ex-BF got home and screamed at me that I should go, nobody wanted me there. So two days later, my son and I moved out (which did, actually, surprise them). And after that, rather than try to reconcile with me or figure out what was going on, my ex-BF stayed living with my mother for the next six months. She was forced to sell the house (they couldn't afford it without me) and there was some guilt thrown my way over that. And ex-BF's sister came down and helped my mother find a retirement community. My mother wanted ex-BF to move there with her,  by but then he and I were reconciled somewhat, so he moved in with me instead. However, if I hadn't reconciled with him then, I do believe he would have moved into the retirement community with her. He never believed she was hitting on him or trying to turn him into her partner, but he did admit having to tell her multiple times that her future was not with him. (Just to fill in story gaps, our relationship just wasn't the same after all this, and we especially couldn't get on the same page regarding my mother, so eventually I asked him to leave and he moved several states away.)

Now, why did I reconcile and why do I still hope reconciliation is possible? Because I was played by this woman for 50 years. I never saw it in 50 years (I'm still piecing it together now, over a year after I first started seeing it.) So I can't really fault him for being played by her for one year. I think it's very difficult for a golden child to see they're being played. It wasn't until I was painted black that I saw it. He's still very much golden in her eyes and she treats him like a small god. This also has met a deep need in him - his mother probably wasn't borderline, from what I can tell, but she was cold and not nurturing at all. He and his sister feel their mother "doesn't like them." In contrast, my mother worships him. I'm sure that's hard to turn down. And I mentioned, too, that he has white knight syndrome. He has a history of saving damsels in distress.  I only needed saving once (when my father disowned me, he was a full-blown narcissist and disowned me many times during my life) but I didn't need saving on a weekly or even monthly basis, which probably wasn't very fulfilling for him. All of these factors combine to explain why he has behaved the way he has. Prior to this hell we experienced together with my mother, though, we had a great relationship. We were best friends, happily in love. It completely changed when she moved in, and yes, there is a part of me that hopes it's possible to find that again.

I never realized growing up that my mother was competing with me, but I can piece that together in my head, too. Times when she would ridicule my breasts in front of my father, ask me about my recent bout of diarrhea in front of other people, things like that. She was always so very concerned about me, wasn't she? And how, if I was trying to lose weight she would ALWAYS and without fail offer me sugary foods. (But only when I was trying to lose weight.) These things never happened overtly, really. All I remember from growing up is how much she praised me. But I see now that interspersed with the praise was a lot of crap. Yes, I would have wished that my ex-BF would have recognized that this person was abusing me in front of his eyes, but if I could never see it, why would he, placed in the very same position, be any more able to see it? Maybe if I had come to him needing "saving" from this, that might have helped. But that's just not my nature. I'm not the damsel in distress.

[Basenji]

there is a part of me that hopes it's possible to find that again... .

I never realized growing up that my mother was competing with me, but I can piece that together in my head, too. Times when she would ridicule my breasts in front of my father, ask me about my recent bout of diarrhea in front of other people, things like that. She was always so very concerned about me, wasn't she?

I'm sure you'll find light and love again with someone who respects and honours you for who you are - just perhaps not with the exBF!

If your mother is putting you down when your are present have you considered she has been saying bad things about you behind your back throughout your life? Maybe yes or maybe no?

I spoke with my friend in the UK last night. She had visited me in Australia previously about 15 years ago when there was a prospect of a romance. It turns out that another friend of my family who knew my friend had warned her off of me! This family friend had a line of communication to mother, which suggests that mother was merrily trashing me behind my back without me even realising that was happening! She was still playing the white ant jealousy card from the other side of the world and seeking to influence negatively others' perceptions of me to stymie any chance of a romance before it had even happened.

Similarly, when I left home in young adulthood my mother refused to speak to me for over 3 months and was trashing me behind my back telling mutual friends that I was a thief, that I had stolen from her.

I now have to assume that there is a whole set of negative and untrue stories that have circulated in the background with the purpose to put me down, undermine potential relationships and make mother look like the injured party resolute in her martyrdom.

Fortunately, I moved to the other side of the world at age 26, which has severely truncated her power and control!

For me the lessons were:

You can never assume that the borderline is doing anything for you for selfless reasons - its always about them!
You must never underestimate the borderline's capacity for manipulation!
It is vital to put yourself in a position where you are the one in control!


As your awareness and control increase, the easier it gets!



 

[muff]

If your mother is putting you down when your are present have you considered she has been saying bad things about you behind your back throughout your life? Maybe yes or maybe no?

Well, yes, now it's obvious. But it wasn't obvious when I was 15 years old and it was all said in fun and with great concern and praise for me every other minute of the day. These were very cunning put downs, and really weren't for my benefit. They were for my father's benefit. Or anyone else she was trying to pit me against.

I now have to assume that there is a whole set of negative and untrue stories that have circulated in the background with the purpose to put me down, undermine potential relationships and make mother look like the injured party resolute in her martyrdom.

I'm beginning to think the same thing. Over the years there were many situations that never made sense, that are now starting to make sense. I think she told my dad I stole a bunch of coins from his collection (I was 12 and wouldn't have been able to spend them) and I'm even beginning to think she, herself, stole them and then blamed it on me. And what made this situation come clear in my mind was my dad's secretary at the time. I'm still in touch with this secretary, and she told me recently that my mother would come into my dad's office and cry about how my parents couldn't pay their bills. (This is so out of character with the woman I knew as my mother.) She was indicating to the secretary that they wouldn't be able to pay her. But it was around that same time I was accused of stealing the coins, and I'll bet you money she cashed them in because of those financial problems. Amazing. Every day I'm piecing more of this together, and every day I continue to be just stunned by this. Up until the age of 49 I thought my mother was one of my best friends.

Oh, and I found out that after I moved out of the house last year, she told her realtor (her realtor?) that I had moved out and was very angry at her, but she didn't know why, and she thought it was probably due to menopause. So yeah. This is clearly her MO. I just never knew.

[muff]

I think the thing that is finally making the most sense here is that my mother has always told me she feels a horrendous amount of guilt in her life. But she never could tell me what it was she felt guilty about. But this guilt was all-consuming and she would wake up most nights around 2 am so racked with guilt she couldn't sleep. I'm beginning to think she felt guilty about all of this, but she probably didn't even know consciously what was bothering her. She just seems unable to face the truth of any of this. My therapist last year organized a meeting where I laid out my accusations against her. I was shaking and sobbing as I read through them, and she sat there with a pleasant smile on her face. At the end, she just sort of brushed it off and said she really hoped I could come see her new place and swim in the pool there. Then she started telling my therapist about her new place. Her level of denial is... .off the charts.

[Basenji]

I think the thing that is finally making the most sense here is that my mother has always told me she feels a horrendous amount of guilt in her life. But she never could tell me what it was she felt guilty about. But this guilt was all-consuming and she would wake up most nights around 2 am so racked with guilt she couldn't sleep. I'm beginning to think she felt guilty about all of this, but she probably didn't even know consciously what was bothering her. She just seems unable to face the truth of any of this. My therapist last year organized a meeting where I laid out my accusations against her. I was shaking and sobbing as I read through them, and she sat there with a pleasant smile on her face. At the end, she just sort of brushed it off and said she really hoped I could come see her new place and swim in the pool there. Then she started telling my therapist about her new place. Her level of denial is... .off the charts.

If it's not a silly question - why do you think your mother is telling you the truth when she claims she feels guilty? Yes she may be, of course, but... .

By claiming guilt she could be invoking attention / pity / drama and making everything yet again about her!

Claiming to feeling guilt may be part of the "I am such a martyr" package!

Her non response at the therapy session indicates absolute denial - if she is in denial why would she experience guilt?

In my experience, borderlines reverse the story to manipulate the target person and one of the most powerful tools the borderline has to entrap their target is the overpowering feelings of guilt of the target person ("she's my mother... .I have to look after her... .I will feel bad if I don't... .she is alone... .she is helpless... .she needs me":

... .thus... .by introducing the concept of guilt she may be able to further control you by reflecting you own primary motivator!

 In this case the borderline could be engaged in an act of psychological transference... .effectively claiming to have more guilt than you, whilst sucking you in (yet again) and making her the injured party ("I'm the one who needs the attention because it is my emotions which need nurturing, not yours!" and yet again reversing the role of parent and child... .

An example from my experience. My mother eulogises about how much in love she was with my father (a borderline trait)... .but the Borderline's concept of love is deeply tarnished with a dark obsessive and over emotional reaction - the Borderline may not experience love or guilt, etc as a healthy person might... .she also insists that I have never been in love (a put down that makes her wiser and more important an yet again more of a martyr since the love was not reflected by father).

Thus "you don't know what guilt is - not like I do"

So... .

The borderline may not be experience love and guilt, etc as you may define and experience those states

And most crucially... .the borderline will cite the intensity and righteousness of their own feelings as justification for their actions and bad behaviours! "I was in love so what I did dragging everyone down in the separation was right!"... ."My guilt is so profound it absolves me and redeems me"... . 

It is just possible that are taking too much of what she says on trust! Assume there may be a lie, a manipulation, a transference, a seeking of attention in any action or statement... .very hard to do in one you love as family member! The borderline parent simply does not necessarily have the best interests of the child at heart - the core agenda is about themselves and their martyrdom within the black and white constructs and weird emotions that define them!

If it's any consolation in the face of such a confronting personality, one mental care professional I spoke to informally avoids whenever possible taking on borderline patients because they are so hard to deal with... .and that's a highly trained and experienced pro struggling at the task!

[Basenji]

I'm still in touch with this secretary, and she told me recently that my mother would come into my dad's office and cry about how my parents couldn't pay their bills. (This is so out of character with the woman I knew as my mother.) She was indicating to the secretary that they wouldn't be able to pay her. But it was around that same time I was accused of stealing the coins, and I'll bet you money she cashed them in because of those financial problems. Amazing. Every day I'm piecing more of this together, and every day I continue to be just stunned by this. Up until the age of 49 I thought my mother was one of my best friends.

Oh, and I found out that after I moved out of the house last year, she told her realtor (her realtor?) that I had moved out and was very angry at her, but she didn't know why, and she thought it was probably due to menopause. So yeah. This is clearly her MO. I just never knew.

My father was a journalist for a famous UK newspaper in the early years of my parents marriage. It turns out mother would ring my father's boss to try to stop my father being assigned an overseas story because she wanted him back at home, effectively attempting to sabotage his career from behind his back! She failed and he became the top journalist in the UK!

[muff]

If it's not a silly question - why do you think your mother is telling you the truth when she claims she feels guilty? Yes she may be, of course, but... .

By claiming guilt she could be invoking attention / pity / drama and making everything yet again about her!

Claiming to feeling guilt may be part of the "I am such a martyr" package!

Her non response at the therapy session indicates absolute denial - if she is in denial why would she experience guilt?

Well, okay. Yes. One thing I've always recognized in myself is that I'm incredibly naive. And I was probably programmed to be that way. Fiercely loyal to her and believing whatever she told me. This is even more information to process, and it's a little overwhelming. I'll mull this over for a while. Thank you.

[Basenji]

Well, okay. Yes. One thing I've always recognized in myself is that I'm incredibly naive. And I was probably programmed to be that way. Fiercely loyal to her and believing whatever she told me. This is even more information to process, and it's a little overwhelming. I'll mull this over for a while. Thank you.

Actually, you come across as a smart, sensitive, caring, and strong. My heart goes to you. These things just take a little time! You are a special person.