Detaching While Living Together?

[Portent]

Due to me wanting our son to know what is going on before I leave I am currently living with my soon to be exPBDw. She knows that I want what is best for our son so she uses it as the object of push pull. One day she wants to stay until he is old enough the next day she wants to sell the house immediately. Its the same as it was during the devaluation stage just using the home and the good of our son as the push pull mechanism rather than her love. If she cant abuse my love for her anymore she will abuse my love for our son. She will then call me passive aggressive.

This situation is bad for me I know. Its still walking on egg shells. She still tries to start fights when ever she can. I have the added dynamic that her "secret" life is falling apart. My replacement is currently cheating on her and probably going to dump her. This is exactly what happened at then end of her last marriage. She was cheating on her then husband a guy from work. He was a player with a girlfriend who liked having a married woman on the side. She left her husband to put pressure on him and he dumped her immediately.

Now she has done the same thing again this time with a married man. Sure he is leaving his wife. Sure she was the push he needed to do that. His wife is a bad wife and he was miserable. However, having been married since he was a kid he is enjoying his freedom now and not looking for a new committed relationship so in just 2 months time he is already cheating. My wife is the dumbest smart person I know (she went to Harvard) and she doesn't understand men at all. I told her this was going to happen.

So I have to deal with this dynamic at home. As stuff goes south with my replacement she gets more volatile at home as she sees that history is repeating itself. She is currently trying to paint me black to make herself feel better about all the evil she has done.

I really do want to somehow make this living arrangement work for the time being. Our son already knows what is going on in his own way. We share him while living together. On the days I have him I make it a point to be there until he goes to sleep. Then I can go off and do my own thing. My BPDw however will take off for days on end so she can work on locking up my cheating replacement. When she is home our son will hit her, grab her, bite her. Stuff he doesn't do with me or my mom who helps me take care of him often. He is angry with his mother for not being there. Im worried that she is already making him into a borderline as well.  Just like her mom did to her.

I still care about her but I care more about our son. I cant abandon him like his mother has. I've been his rock. I have always been the one there for him. I took my first weekend vacation the other week. Its the first time I've been gone from my son since he was born. When I came back the first time I put him down for a nap he freaked out. It wasn't a temper tantrum. He was really scared. Scared that I would leave him too.

My wife doesn't care. When I tried to bring this up with her she dismissed it as she does anything she doesn't want to confront. She could care less about the emotional well being of her kids. She was an emotionally neglected child and she turned out just fine. Right?

How do I make this work in the near term so I can at lest get my son past his third birthday. So he can at least have me and his mom explain to him what is going on before we separate for good. Right now there doesn't seem like there is any light at the end of the tunnel because my wife has convinced herself that all she needs to do to make her screwed up life work is get away from me. I'm willing to put up with a year of eggshells for the good of my son. But right now she is out of her mind.

[vortex of confusion]

There are no easy answers in any of this.

I am speaking from a place where  ex and I did the separated but living together thing. We even tried an open relationship and read about uncoupling and blah, blah, blah. I could usually tell when he was up to no good because his behavior would change. When somebody dumped him, it was pretty obvious. He couldn't find a stable relationship no matter how hard he tried. With most people, he couldn't even get past the online talking phase.

Like you, I wanted to give my kids the benefit of having both parents available to them. I thought I could make it work. I couldn't.

Some things to consider are whether or not the dynamic between you and your spouse is good enough to NOT be a detriment to your child. It is better for the other parent to not be there than it is for him to see the two of you fighting.

What kind of parent is she? I was able to keep things going as long as I thought ex was a decent parent and was doing well with the kids. When I saw that his presence was a detriment to the kids, it became easier to make a decision.

Do you have a clear space in the house that you can call your own? Are there enough bedrooms that you can have your own room? We didn't have enough rooms so I slept on the couch or in the kids' room. That took its toll. And, even though I tried to set up my own space, he had a tendency to invade my space. 

How often are the two of you home at the same time? When ex was working, it was a little easier because I didn't have to see him as much. When he lost his job and was home all the time, it took about 3 months before I had enough and kicked him out. To be able to detach while living together to some degree, you will need to find a way to carve out space for yourself.

Also, what are the chances of you getting custody? I asked ex to leave. I knew that he wouldn't fight me over custody. So far, all visitation is on my terms and he seems okay with that. I get the distinct feeling that he loves his kids but doesn't like having that much responsibility. A lot of people tell me that I am letting him off too easy. I disagree. I am doing what I think is best for the kids.

When he does visit the kids, it takes them a day or two to settle back into normal. He isn't inherently dangerous. He acts like a child and is easily overwhelmed by the kids. I have had the same thought/fear that his presence is teaching the kids how to be borderline: boundary busting, whining, being defensive, and a host of other behaviors that are not cool. It is amazing how much easier it is to parent without him in the house doing the push/pull thing with me and the kids.

Ultimately, I don't feel like I was able to fully detach and begin to heal until he was out of the house and we were not living together. When I was trying to detach while living with him, it was too easy to get sucked back into the FOG. It was too easy to dismiss my feelings because there would be days when it seemed like he was his normal lovable self. I had to keep a lot of my feelings and pain at bay just to keep from lashing out at him. Towards the end, it became almost impossible to keep those feelings at bay. I needed to be away from him so I could feel my feelings and not suppress them to keep the peace. At the end, I did a horrible job of suppressing things. There was just too much and it became overwhelming.

Don't rely on her to make a decision and stick with it. That is a mistake that I made. I listened to ex like I would any rational person. He kept talking about us separating and him leaving. It was back and forth craziness. Some days, he wanted to make it work and other days he didn't. I can't say that I was much better. I don't think either one of us wanted to be the one to make the hard decisions. In the end, I made the decision and stuck by it. It was one of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make.

[Lakoda]

Due to me wanting our son to know what is going on before I leave I am currently living with my soon to be exPBDw. She knows that I want what is best for our son so she uses it as the object of push pull. One day she wants to stay until he is old enough the next day she wants to sell the house immediately. Its the same as it was during the devaluation stage just using the home and the good of our son as the push pull mechanism rather than her love. If she cant abuse my love for her anymore she will abuse my love for our son. She will then call me passive aggressive.

This situation is bad for me I know. Its still walking on egg shells. She still tries to start fights when ever she can. I have the added dynamic that her "secret" life is falling apart. My replacement is currently cheating on her and probably going to dump her. This is exactly what happened at then end of her last marriage. She was cheating on her then husband a guy from work. He was a player with a girlfriend who liked having a married woman on the side. She left her husband to put pressure on him and he dumped her immediately.

Now she has done the same thing again this time with a married man. Sure he is leaving his wife. Sure she was the push he needed to do that. His wife is a bad wife and he was miserable. However, having been married since he was a kid he is enjoying his freedom now and not looking for a new committed relationship so in just 2 months time he is already cheating. My wife is the dumbest smart person I know (she went to Harvard) and she doesn't understand men at all. I told her this was going to happen.

So I have to deal with this dynamic at home. As stuff goes south with my replacement she gets more volatile at home as she sees that history is repeating itself. She is currently trying to paint me black to make herself feel better about all the evil she has done.

I really do want to somehow make this living arrangement work for the time being. Our son already knows what is going on in his own way. We share him while living together. On the days I have him I make it a point to be there until he goes to sleep. Then I can go off and do my own thing. My BPDw however will take off for days on end so she can work on locking up my cheating replacement. When she is home our son will hit her, grab her, bite her. Stuff he doesn't do with me or my mom who helps me take care of him often. He is angry with his mother for not being there. Im worried that she is already making him into a borderline as well.  Just like her mom did to her.

I still care about her but I care more about our son. I cant abandon him like his mother has. I've been his rock. I have always been the one there for him. I took my first weekend vacation the other week. Its the first time I've been gone from my son since he was born. When I came back the first time I put him down for a nap he freaked out. It wasn't a temper tantrum. He was really scared. Scared that I would leave him too.

My wife doesn't care. When I tried to bring this up with her she dismissed it as she does anything she doesn't want to confront. She could care less about the emotional well being of her kids. She was an emotionally neglected child and she turned out just fine. Right?

How do I make this work in the near term so I can at lest get my son past his third birthday. So he can at least have me and his mom explain to him what is going on before we separate for good. Right now there doesn't seem like there is any light at the end of the tunnel because my wife has convinced herself that all she needs to do to make her screwed up life work is get away from me. I'm willing to put up with a year of eggshells for the good of my son. But right now she is out of her mind.

I put up with it till my kids were 18... .so you can but its VERY difficult... .especially if you don't have a manageable relationship. Sooner or later someone else will take over the payments and put her up. Most likely she is waiting for the next best opportunity. People with BPD work very fast in new relationships... .she might even get pregnant with someone else just to seal the deal. One thing you should know is people with BPD do no play fair... .from my experience they are irrational in thought and they are ruled by emotion and are always justified in doing horrible things. Like you say, one day she will want to go and later that day she will want to stay... .that most likely will not change... .didn't for my spouse. She cant see past her own emotion so how do you expect she has some to spare for you or your child?

The "hitting and biting" kind of alarms me... .my kids never did that, even in the terrible twos, so I wonder if there could be some traits from the mother. One of my kids has a slight disability which I think has carried over.

Could you talk her into BPD counseling or DBT? At least if she started that she would go into "self examination". There I believe you would have a ground to reach her and perhaps she would open up more to suggestion.

Its a very difficult road... .I do not wish it on anyone.

[Portent]

Could you talk her into BPD counseling or DBT? At least if she started that she would go into "self examination". There I believe you would have a ground to reach her and perhaps she would open up more to suggestion.

Been there. Like most high functioning she will not accept a diagnosis of BPD.

"I'm not a monster."

"I'm a good person."

You will have a an easier time getting blood from a stone than getting a high functioning BPD to accept a diagnosis that says you are almsot a psychopath.

In her last marriage a doctor friend said that she was borderline. As far as she was concerned he wasn't qualified and had been polluted by her ex. Our marriage councilor said she was a borderline and referred her to DBT group. As far as she was concerned he was polluted by me.

She ended up finding some woman with an MS in psychology, my wife is very good at manipulating other women, and after about two weeks of studying what not to say to her therapist managed to lie her way to a diagnosis of anxiety disorder. Didn't tell her therapist about her leaving her ex-husband for a replacement. Didnt tell her therapists about her repeated suicide threats. Didn't tell her therapist about her 100k in debt due to reckless spending. Probably told her therapist the same lie she is telling everyone else about ther DUI with the kids in her car that she only had a glass of wine and drank when she got home but her crazy ex-husband had called the cops on her.

I can only hope that her new therapists saw through her bull and gave her a bull diagnosis to keep her in therapy. But I have no way of finding that out.

[Lakoda]

Been there. Like most high functioning she will not accept a diagnosis of BPD.

"I'm not a monster."

"I'm a good person."

You will have a an easier time getting blood from a stone than getting a high functioning BPD to accept a diagnosis that says you are almsot a psychopath.

In her last marriage a doctor friend said that she was borderline. As far as she was concerned he wasn't qualified and had been polluted by her ex. Our marriage councilor said she was a borderline and referred her to DBT group. As far as she was concerned he was polluted by me.

She ended up finding some woman with an MS in psychology, my wife is very good at manipulating other women, and after about two weeks of studying what not to say to her therapist managed to lie her way to a diagnosis of anxiety disorder. Didn't tell her therapist about her leaving her ex-husband for a replacement. Didnt tell her therapists about her repeated suicide threats. Didn't tell her therapist about her 100k in debt due to reckless spending. Probably told her therapist the same lie she is telling everyone else about ther DUI with the kids in her car that she only had a glass of wine and drank when she got home but her crazy ex-husband had called the cops on her.

I can only hope that her new therapists saw through her bull and gave her a bull diagnosis to keep her in therapy. But I have no way of finding that out.

Shesh... .yeah my wife was diagnosed and later convinced herself through others that it wasn't her. Said the same things... .unfortunately we had not gone far down the road before she decided to hit the road. So I'm not sure how much it would have helped but it was the first time I had ever seen her do self examination... .then she would make remarks that I deserved better... .looking back I wonder if that was just an escape clause. Then later of course it was all my fault again.

Its interesting though I mean all I have experienced and the testimonies I have heard... .I can see how someone would not want to be labeled with DBT. Of course she thinks everyone thinks shes a monster. My wife "was" highly functional too... .sounds just as crafty as yours with very similar experiences... .that makes it the worse because its easy to say "look I'm normal"... ."I can hold a job"... .etc... .

I've noticed with therapists that they like to get paid... .so they can be very agreeable. I had one call me with my wife to correct my behavior... .she didn't even know the whole story. 

Perhaps there's a success story here of a couple with DBT. 20+ years and I did everything I could possibly do to keep the relationship going... .I was practically walking around saying "yes your highness"

I still think you could work it out (if you were a couple) for the sake if your boy... .but its going to take great effort,  patience and humbling... .she will be irrational speaking from her emotions. When I tried to implement "healthy boundaries" that's where it went down hill. I guess it wasn't a democracy.

[Portent]

I still think you could work it out (if you were a couple) for the sake if your boy... .but its going to take great effort,  patience and humbling... .she will be irrational speaking from her emotions. When I tried to implement "healthy boundaries" that's where it went down hill. I guess it wasn't a democracy.

No she is off her rocker in paranoid la la land. I'm beginning to think she actually believes the story she is telling about the DUI. She had to go to group because of it and I'm certain its the same story she tells in group. Since I had some contact with her ex and he had called me when she was trying to drive drunk with the kids I'm part of the conspiracy against her. As far as she is concerned we made her drive drunk with the kids. FYI I was racing downtown to stop her.

She is not about to accept that she put her own kids lives in danger. She was fine. She only blew a .129 and has no alcohol tolerance to begin with. All the people in her group had like 0.2. Of course they are high functioning alcoholics. Who cares that I saw her fail her sobriety test. She was fine. She only failed the test and was wobbling all over the place because she was nervous.

Its all a big conspiracy against her.

The woman is toxic.

[Portent]

Double post

[Portent]

What kind of parent is she?

She is what I call a transactional parent. She is an encyclopedia of what to do if X. What she cant do is emotionally connect with her children. To get what she wants she always has to scream and yell. Fortunately her new therapy is having some positive effect as the therapist is working on her parenting ability.

Do you have a clear space in the house that you can call your own?

Yes we have a downstairs room. Who ever has the night with the kid stays in the upstairs room the other can stay downstairs. Of course she stays with my replacement when ever possible because he is cheating on her when she isn't with him to keep him under lock and key.

How often are the two of you home at the same time?

I stay until our son goes to sleep most of the time. This keeps me home on most of her days till about 7-8. On my days she takes off because my replacement is more important to her than her kids.
 

Also, what are the chances of you getting custody?

Not a chance. Even with a DUI and a reckless endangerment of her own children it is an uphill climb for her ex. And she was willing to put the kids through any kind of hell to keep from being called and unfit mother. She is nuts and cares not one iota for her own kids well-being all that matters to her is her image as a good mother. I cant put our son through the kind of custody fight she would make it for little chance of winning anymore than shared physical custody while having legal custody.

[Lakoda]

No she is off her rocker in paranoid la la land. I'm beginning to think she actually believes the story she is telling about the DUI. She had to go to group because of it and I'm certain its the same story she tells in group. Since I had some contact with her ex and he had called me when she was trying to drive drunk with the kids I'm part of the conspiracy against her. As far as she is concerned we made her drive drunk with the kids. FYI I was racing downtown to stop her.

She is not about to accept that she put her own kids lives in danger. She was fine. She only blew a .129 and has no alcohol tolerance to begin with. All the people in her group had like 0.2. Of course they are high functioning alcoholics. Who cares that I saw her fail her sobriety test. She was fine. She only failed the test and was wobbling all over the place because she was nervous.

Its all a big conspiracy against her.

The woman is toxic.

LOL She always the victim didn't you know? Imagine if she could take responsibility for anything negative that happened in her life!

Imagine you did something because you cared and got vilified for it.

You probably turned her in so you could make her look bad.

[Portent]

LOL She always the victim didn't you know? Imagine if she could take responsibility for anything negative that happened in her life!

Imagine you did something because you cared and got vilified for it.

You probably turned her in so you could make her look bad.

I didn't even turn her in. Her ex-husband did. I was racing to stop her. But what does she expect him to do.

"Sure go ahead and drive the kids hammered."

She has told this lie her lawyer told her to tell so many times she actually believes it.

[Lakoda]

She is what I call a transactional parent. She is an encyclopedia of what to do if X. What she cant do is emotionally connect with her children. To get what she wants she always has to scream and yell. Fortunately her new therapy is having some positive effect as the therapist is working on her parenting ability.

Yes we have a downstairs room. Who ever has the night with the kid stays in the upstairs room the other can stay downstairs. Of course she stays with my replacement when ever possible because he is cheating on her when she isn't with him to keep him under lock and key.

I stay until our son goes to sleep most of the time. This keeps me home on most of her days till about 7-8. On my days she takes off because my replacement is more important to her than her kids.
 
Not a chance. Even with a DUI and a reckless endangerment of her own children it is an uphill climb for her ex. And she was willing to put the kids through any kind of hell to keep from being called and unfit mother. She is nuts and cares not one iota for her own kids well-being all that matters to her is her image as a good mother. I cant put our son through the kind of custody fight she would make it for little chance of winning anymore than shared physical custody while having legal custody.

So I've thought out your situation a little more and this is my conclusion.

Over 20 years I've had a dry run with about every scenario (leave her with the kids, let her take the kids, etc... .etc... ).

Unfortunately no one knows the situation better than you because you live in it... .you are "in the war zone"... .you know her and you know what she is capable of... .every one is different. You already instinctually know how to handle the situation. I suspect based on your responses she will fight tooth and nail for custody to prove to everyone and even herself that she is capable. And like you say, you are living in a toxic environment. Her with another man in the house and her behavior is very confusing to your son... .Its not great that he is witnessing all this as the norm. And lets face it... .no matter how strong you are, you're probably not doing well thinking about her with another man.

Perhaps and just perhaps... .you need to have your son over to your, or a different, place when she is not available... .where its 100 percent healthy for your son. You need to be in your own house/apt so you can get your sanity back. Even if you told her she could be with him most of the time... .you know as well as I do she will dump him off to go do what she wants. When you pour out a pitcher of water it will always settle in the lowest point... .long as you don't resist it.

She is the mother... .he came out of her body so you will have to come to terms that she will be an influence on him. What I have done for my kids is act as a grounding point. Always even keel... .they know what to expect and I spent a lot of time detoxifying them from their mothers behaviors... ."like you know that's not good behavior right... .or you know that's not normal"... .today my kids are grown they will just shake their heads and say "yep that's mom".

[Lakoda]

Over 20 years I've had a dry run with about every scenario (leave her with the kids, let her take the kids, etc... .etc... ).

That is... .

Over 20 years I've had a dry run with about every scenario ("leave her and take the kids", or let her take the kids, split cust... .etc... ).

[Portent]

That is... .

Over 20 years I've had a dry run with about every scenario ("leave her and take the kids", or let her take the kids, split cust... .etc... ).

Well for her own good leaving so she can hit rock bottom is best for her. But for my son its not. He is starting to develop abandonment issues already.