How can I hold on to the good memories without them being tainted?

[vortex of confusion]

Here lately, I have been trying to put things into a better perspective. I deliberately stayed focused on the negative for a while because I needed to do that in order to gain the courage to be done. I think there was some kind of turning point where we should have split a lot of years ago but neither one of us had the nerve to do it out of fear of being alone. I focused on the kids and he focused on his games. I would try to get him involved in our world. He wasn't interested. There was dad's world and there was mine and the kids' world and the two rarely meshed.

As I am thinking about the relationship again, I find myself wondering when the negative started to outweigh the positive. I read on here about how so many people were dumped and left by their partners. I am the one that left. I kicked him out. I still feel really guilty for doing that because I have a lot of good memories of a lot of good years. There were some rough spots along the way, like when he lost his job for looking at porn. And, in the beginning, it used to bug me that he would look at porn instead of being with me. I was able to push those things aside. There was still enough good in the relationship that it didn't bug me that much. Really, I think some of that stuff bugs me NOW more than it ever did then. Back then, I kind of shrugged it off because there was still a lot of good in our relation. Plus, I didn't know any better and had no idea the implications that it might have in the future.

I found ex to be rather funny. He and I could have some really good intellectual conversations. We are in the same field so we could have all sorts of funny inside jokes that nobody else would get. It was kind of fun back in the day.

And then we started having kids. Even that had a lot of good stuff. I have a lot of fond memories of him holding one or more kids with all of them crashed. When I think about those things, I tear up because I wonder what happened to that man. Yeah, he could be short tempered and grumpy but it wasn't anything too horrible. It was more like that grumpy old man that was harmless and yelled at kids to get off his lawn. At times, it was kind of cute. The kids admitted to me one time that they liked to get dad worked up because it was so easy to do and he looked like a cartoon character when he was mad. They kept wondering when smoke would start coming out of his ears. I told them not to talk about their dad that way. I am sharing it as an example of what his temper tantrums looked like.

I remember when the kids were younger and we would hide when he came home from work. It was a game we played where he would call out for us and look in crazy places while talking out loud, "I wonder if they are hiding under the kitchen sink. Nope, not there." And this would go on for a bit. He could always find us rather easily because the kids couldn't suppress their giggles. When he would find us, he would act shocked and surprised and the kids would laugh and we would all give him hugs and kisses.

I remember all the times when I was pregnant and he would go get me weird stuff from the store pretty much any time day or night. I had a thing for hot fudge sundaes during one of my pregnancies and he would oblige pretty much any time day or night.

It feels like I woke up one day and that man was gone.

I was pretty depressed after one of the kids and we made some drastic changes and tried to move. That blew up. Thankfully, our house didn't sell so we were able to move back to our home. It seems like after that move, things went downhill for us. I am certain that the move triggered something in him AND me and that was the start of the end. I didn't want to move with him right away. I wanted to stay back and let him get things set up in the new place. He insisted that we go with him even though that meant that we live with his parents. It was obvious that the thought of being separated from me and the kids was a traumatic thing for him. He moved for a good job and the first thing out of his mother's mouth when she found out about the job was, ":)on't screw it up." I have a lot of compassion for him because I know how nitpicky his mother can be. The kids and I often times felt like we were nothing but germs that got in her way. It felt like the woman followed us around with Lysol spray because she didn't want us to spread any germs.

Ex couldn't and wouldn't stand up to her. He wouldn't do anything to help us get out of the situation. I was in a place where I didn't have a car. I didn't know the area and it happened to be a super snowy and super icy winter. I am a southern girl, I don't do snow and ice. I could have learned how to drive on the snow and ice if I had a car without 3 kids in it. There was no way on God's green earth that I was going to get in that car with those kids with absolutely no experience driving in those conditions. When I write it out, I feel a bit like a loser because I was able to get us out of that situation by calling on my parents for help. I didn't care. I knew that the kids and I could not handle living there. I was trying to be grateful to her because she opened up her home and allowed us to live there. At the same time, it was difficult. I didn't want to lose sight of the fact that she was being very generous to us by allowing us to stay there.

I have reached that same point with ex. I don't want to lose sight of the man that he was. I want to be able to hold on to those memories and cherish them while acknowledging that somewhere along the way things changed. I want to hold on to those memories and cherish them without tarnishing them with the craziness that has happened the last several years.

I find myself getting mad when people tell me that he doesn't care. I realize that he acts like he doesn't care. Heck, I have even told him that myself a few times. I have raked him over the coals a time or two because I am still so stunned over how our relationship has gone. I never dreamed that I would ever be where I am. He and I used to joke about sitting on our porch in matching rocking chairs and watching our grandkids play. Now, all of that is gone. The wonderful man that I thought I married is no more. Now, all that is left is a man that feels like a complete stranger to me. The man that I married wouldn't have done this to me or his kids. I am not caught up in some delusion here. I know that man is either gone or didn't exist. Either way, it doesn't matter. All that matters is how I can pick up the pieces and move on.

At the end of the day, I have a house that will be paid off in 6 years because of what he and I did together. The girls and I will continue to have a roof over our heads. I am not living in a shelter. I am struggling to pay the bills yet I feel like I have so much to be grateful for and I think that is why it hurts so much. I still see him as a decent guy. Yes, he treated me like crap and did some awful things. I can't forget those awful things, which is why I had to make the choice to end the relationship. So, I am trying to hold on to the good and the bad.

And, I am thinking about how the stuff in the beginning of the relationship kept coming back. I think it crept up a lot for me because I don't feel like ex ever heard me. I don't think he ever acknowledged my pain. I felt horribly betrayed when I found out that he had been lying about not looking at porn. He was telling a partial truth in that he wasn't looking at it at home. He was doing it at work. In one of our conversations, ex asked me why I keep bringing it up. I bring it up because of how much it hurt me and how betrayed I felt. That is another reason that I can't be in a relationship with him. It wouldn't be fair to me to have to look at him every day while wondering if he is lying to me. It wouldn't be fair to me to be expected to just forgive him and move on. I did that once and I feel like he let me down. It was early in our relationship. Neither of us had been married before. Heck, I was only 22. I had no experience with any of this stuff. At that time, I didn't know a whole lot about sex or what to expect out of marriage. Everything I knew about marriage came from watching my very dysfunctional parents and the stuff we got from our marriage prep classes. I thought I was doing pretty darned good.

And, I realize that there was a lot of stuff in the early days that I was entirely too embarrassed to talk about with anyone. I had no clue that anything like sex addiction existed. I was also under the false belief that normal guys liked being with their wives and ex was a normal guy. If they didn't, it was because the wife was the problem. Guess what I did! I tried to fix myself.

It almost feels like there were two sides to our relationship. It was like things were split between the public side where everything was great and wonderful. People saw some of his grumpiness and his talking would sometimes annoy people. Other than that, it was nothing that stood out. And then, there was the side where my husband didn't seem to be that interested in me physically or emotionally. I found it so very confusing because he was the sex addict yet would tell me that I wanted it too much and that he couldn't keep up with me. Those are the things that I couldn't and wouldn't talk about publicly.

And I am sure that I became difficult to live with. I hated feeling like I was living a lie. I hated how he couldn't be physical with me without all kinds of fantasy yet acted like I was the greatest thing since sliced bread when others were around. He would check out and play his computer games and ignore me and the kids until somebody came over and then he was the center of attention. A lot of that has left me feeling very bitter. To the outside world, it feels like I don't have any reason to be as hurt or as upset as I am. I don't know how to talk about this stuff outside of writing it out here. Every time I write it out, it feels like things get a little bit lighter.

At some point, the positive started to diminish and I can't even figure out when that was. I don't want to lose or forget those memories even though thinking about them makes me cry.

I am done with the relationship and don't ever want to go back. I don't miss him at all. The reason I don't miss him is that I realize that the man he is today is NOT the man that I married. I may miss the guy I married but I do NOT miss who he has become. My life is so much better and more peaceful without him. The man that I married has been gone for a long time and I didn't even realize it because I kept holding out hope that I could find the magic solution to getting him back.

If you have made it this far, thanks for reading! Does anybody have any ideas or suggestions on how to cherish the good memories without them being tarnished by the crazy?

[vortex of confusion]

As I re-read what I wrote last night, I find myself wondering if the good memories are all just a lie.

There were so many times in the relationship where I felt like I was living a lie.

[stimpy]

I have no good memories at all, they were smashed to bits when she threw me away in the discard, followed by insults, and then a year of stalking.

So no good memories for me to hold onto.

I do "miss" what I thought we were going to have, a kind, loving, fun, exciting relationship that was going to make our lives better and stronger and where I could share my life with someone I loved and cared for. I miss what I thought I was going to have and what I thought I had.

But in the discard and her behaviour afterwards, she revealed her true self and what she thought of me and I to a degree what she thought of herself.

The interaction (as it wasn't a relationship) with her was all just smoke and mirrors, manipulation and gas lighting.

I feel sadness for her that she has to live like that, but also contempt for her that at the age of 50 she still behaves like a 5 year old child and still just blames everyone else for what has happened in her life.

[Duped 1]

I'm trying to forget the good memories and remember how incredibly awful she was to me and the complete lack of empathy and humanity, the lying, and the immediate replacement and turning her family against me. I also remember the times she bragged about her strength, honesty, and integrity-all things that were very lacking in her. She talked a good game, but didn't live her life by those principles in any way, shape, or form. When I miss her I try to force myself to remember how hard it was to even be around her waiting for the next insult or tiny issue that she would blow out of proportion and how stressed I was and how I was truly walking on eggshells for longest time. I remember the abuse, the rages, the dirty fighting with no boundaries, and the shallowness of her supposed "love" which was completely conditional. I also remember how no matter what I was blamed for everything, she would never own her behavior, and she would rewrite history to make her look great and me like a POS.

[vortex of confusion]

But in the discard and her behaviour afterwards, she revealed her true self and what she thought of me and I to a degree what she thought of herself.

That is where I get caught up. He is STILL saying wonderful things about me. He will say that I didn't deserve any of this. He will say that it wasn't me. He admitted that it was all him because he has a big hole in him that nothing could fill. The porn, the other women, the games. . .all of it was his attempt to fill some big hole that couldn't be filled.

I don't have some kind of big hole that needs filled so I don't have any clue what that might feel like. All I was wanting was a companion and partner. I wanted to share my life with him. I thought we had a pretty good life. It could be boring at times because we would get in ruts. It was nothing that couldn't be solved by going on a vacation or trying something new.

The interaction (as it wasn't a relationship) with her was all just smoke and mirrors, manipulation and gas lighting.

I have a difficult time thinking about this. I read through some of my old posts today and very much realize that the relationship has been very one sided. It has been all about him.

I feel sadness for her that she has to live like that, but also contempt for her that at the age of 50 she still behaves like a 5 year old child and still just blames everyone else for what has happened in her life.

Ex's latest thing is that he has uncovered a lot of issues that go back to his FOO. I think it is great that he is working on this stuff. At the same time, he is in his mid 40's and wrestling with stuff that I wrestled with as a teen. I am busy trying to be an adult and take care of the kids and he is off trying to get his act together. I have a difficult time NOT resenting him for this.

[vortex of confusion]

I'm trying to forget the good memories and remember how incredibly awful she was to me and the complete lack of empathy and humanity, the lying, and the immediate replacement and turning her family against me.

I spent a couple of years in that place so that I could work up the courage to end our marriage. I was reading through one of my old posts today and was shaking my head. The lack of empathy for me has been very difficult to deal with at times.

I feel like I need to remember the good stuff for the sake of the kids. I feel a strong need to get back to a place of balance so that I can find positive ways to include ex in the kids' lives. 

I also remember the times she bragged about her strength, honesty, and integrity-all things that were very lacking in her. She talked a good game, but didn't live her life by those principles in any way, shape, or form.

I don't understand how they can do this. Ex had such a habit of talking about humility and his vocation as a father and a husband and bladdidy friggin' blah. In hind sight, it is almost like the things that were most lacking were the things that he talked about most. It is almost like if he said it enough times it would be real. I don't go around telling people that I am honest. I don't go around telling people stuff like that. I am more prone to be self-deprecating and admit that I am a pain in the butt. So, it was really easy for people to see me in a negative light. He talked such a good game yet didn't live it behind closed doors.

When I miss her I try to force myself to remember how hard it was to even be around her waiting for the next insult or tiny issue that she would blow out of proportion and how stressed I was and how I was truly walking on eggshells for longest time.

I hate to admit it but I don't miss him at all. I think that might be why I am trying to remember the good stuff. I don't think anything would make me miss him at this point. How can I miss somebody that got excited over the idea of me being with another man? How can I miss somebody that told another man, "Sure, you can be with my wife. You won't regret it." I don't have to worry about missing him. Whenever I think about missing him, I have a bad joke run through my head.

I remember the abuse, the rages, the dirty fighting with no boundaries, and the shallowness of her supposed "love" which was completely conditional. I also remember how no matter what I was blamed for everything, she would never own her behavior, and she would rewrite history to make her look great and me like a POS.

The shallowness of his supposed love was very hurtful. I used to playfully tell him, "Now kiss me like you mean it." So much of what he did felt so shallow.

I think part of the reason that I want to remember the good stuff is to remember that I am capable of giving. I am very worthy. I did all sorts of things to try to make our lives fun and happy and peaceful. Remembering those good things is more about me and what I need to heal. It feels more honest to acknowledge the good than to let the horrible things completely wipe out something that I once cherished.

[ynwa]

Remembering those good things is more about me and what I need to heal. It feels more honest to acknowledge the good than to let the horrible things completely wipe out something that I once cherished.

Everything you wrote Vortex, is the balance I think you were looking for?  You made me at least see someone with love and compassion for another.  It is about you, and it should be.  How could you not have mixed memories for him?  

I'm nowhere near done getting to be free of my attachment to my ex.  But I'd like to think Incould remember her in much the same way.

I might be able to forgive, but I will not forget.   Sound right?

[vortex of confusion]

How could you not have mixed memories for him?  

That is very true. 20 years is a lot of memories.

I'm nowhere near done getting to be free of my attachment to my ex.

I won't ever be free of my attachment to ex. That isn't some kind of fatalistic statement. It is a statement based on the fact that we have 4 kids together. There are times when I look at the kids and see him because they have similar eyes or similar mannerisms or they like the same kind of humor. Ex and I will be attached through our kids for the rest of our lives. Even if I were to never see him or talk to him again, I would still be reminded of him through the kids. I have to accept that whether I like it or not. When I look at the kids and see him, I want to see beauty. I want to see the good things about ex because I do NOT ever want to let any of my negative feelings about ex interfere with my ability to be a loving mother.

I have read too many stories where kids have gotten caught in the cross fire of messy relationships.

In the midst of trying to sort out all of these feelings, ex got a full time job and starts in a couple of days. Talking to him about it felt like talking to the guy from a long time ago. He was so excited about his job and he was reassuring me that he is going to give the kids and I whatever we need. He reminded me that the house will stay with me and the kids. That is huge considering how much equity we have in our house. Somebody told me that I should take him to court and file for support and try to make him pay for the months that he wasn't able to help much. Um, why would I do that? I do NOT want to get a game of tit for tat started. If he wanted to, he could take me to court and force the kids and I out of the house or at the very least make me pay him his half of the equity.

If he told me he wasn't chasing anybody, I would have my doubts. If he gave me some BS line about other stuff, I wouldn't believe a word he said. With business and finances, he usually defers to me without question because I have never been greedy and I have been very open about everything that I have done. And, he knows that I am not going to do anything that might hurt the kids. We visited a banker one time and the guy asked ex how he was able to do so much with so little. Ex looked at the guy and shrugged and said, "I don't know. She takes care of all that."

I might be able to forgive, but I will not forget.   Sound right?

Forgiveness isn't even on the table for me right now. I don't feel like I need to forgive him for anything specifically. I have a weird way of thinking about forgiveness. I see it as a stumbling block. For me, I focus on treating each and every person with kindness and respect no matter how I feel about them. My goal for my interactions with him is kindness and respect because that is how I like to be. Yes, I can be a jerk and I can and will do it. I don't like it and it doesn't feel good. Right now, I don't know how to be kind to him or respectful to him. Right now, I still have a lot of moments where I want to lash out at him and remind him of all of the crappy things that he has done. I want him to hear MY truth. I want him to hear MY reality and what I have to deal with as a result of the crap he has done.

Oh no, I don't think I will ever be able to forget any of this. I also know that no matter how "OVER" it I feel it is subject to come back and bite me in the butt when I least expect it. The kids might say something that hits a nerve. A friend may say or do something. I know that I have to sit with it. Over time, those incidents will slowly diminish and fade. I have dealt with a lot of crazy stuff in my life and have landed on my feet. There is a lot of stuff wrong with ex but there is also a lot right with him. There was a reason that I married him all of those years ago. His crazy is nothing compared to the crazy that I grew up with. I sat on the sidelines and watched a break up that involved a house getting burned down. I have NO fears of ex doing anything that horrible or crazy. If I am completely honest with myself, there isn't anything that ex does that I need to be scared of at all.

(That doesn't erase the pain of the sexual abuse and rejection and all of the other horrible stuff that transpired. The good and the bad can and does co-exist and it is frustrating trying to explain that to others.)

[lovenature]

Hey vortex

The good memories are what they are, same as the bad ones. I find it is best to just let your thoughts and feelings come and go, regardless of what they are.

It is understandable to feel like you were living a lie; a BPD relationship is so irrational and senseless, we must remember that it was a very serious mental illness running it's course.

[vortex of confusion]

The good memories are what they are, same as the bad ones. I find it is best to just let your thoughts and feelings come and go, regardless of what they are.

I think I have found a way to hold on to the good and the bad. I have been thinking about it like I think about the passing of some of my favorite people. They are gone and I know I won't ever be able to have those good times with them again but I can still remember them and miss them.

The same can be said for ex. The man I married no longer exists. It doesn't matter if it is because of a disorder, his actions, or an alien invasion. At the end of the day, the man I see when I look at ex is a stranger. The man that I thought I married would not have done these things. The man I married is gone.

It is understandable to feel like you were living a lie; a BPD relationship is so irrational and senseless, we must remember that it was a very serious mental illness running it's course.

His actions are and were hurtful to me.

What is remembering that it is a serious mental illness supposed to accomplish for me?

I am not trying to be snarky. I have reached a point where I am no longer thinking about ex in terms of a diagnosis or a mental illness. He is a human being and so am I. I can see that he is hurting and struggling too. He got kicked out of where he was staying and I had to tell him that he couldn't stay here. He slept in his van in a parking lot and is now staying in a hotel.

I have to protect myself and my kids from him coming back. Thinking that he is mentally ill might just weaken my boundaries and give me too much compassion. Right now, I have to stay strong and keep him out. It is better to think of the past as a lie or something else. I cannot be weak. I cannot let myself have feelings that might weaken my resolve to let him back. I have to focus on myself and how I am feeling so that I can stay strong to protect myself and my kids.

I am not going to dismiss myself any longer by making excuses for his behavior by remembering that he has a mental illness.

[lovenature]

What is remembering that it is a serious mental illness supposed to accomplish for me?

It is knowing that you are a compassionate, strong woman who tried to make it work with someone who couldn't accept and reciprocate your love.
Yes it is tough for us to detach when we have compassion for our ex's, but if we ever want to move forward we need to get past the anger.
Knowing it is a serious mental illness reinforces our decision for what is best for all concerned.

[vortex of confusion]

Knowing it is a serious mental illness reinforces our decision for what is best for all concerned.

If it is a serious mental illness, then I should stay with him because I promised to love, honor, and cherish him in sickness and in health. If he is ill, then I am violating my marriage vows and I am being just as horrible as him because I am not honoring the promise that I made in front of God, our family, and our friends. I am abandoning him.

I know I need to get past the anger. I also don't need to rush it. I need to hold on to the anger so that I don't get sucked back in to his world.

He got kicked out of where he was staying and is living out his van and staying in motels until he can get his paychecks. Now, he is telling me how much he misses me and the kids. Now, he is telling me that he has a lot of regret. As long as he had somebody to mooch off of and get a free place to stay, he wasn't saying those things. Now, he telling me how sorry he is for all of the hurtful things he did. I am angry. I am so very angry right now.

[lovenature]

It is understandable you are angry, take the time you need to process things. Once we get far enough out and learn enough we realize what we were up against, most agree that if we don't maintain NC we remain stuck in the FOG.

You must remember that BPD is something that unless someone has lived it, they can't ever fathom it, how could you have ever known when you made your vows together that an illness would exist (and your partner actually had it) that made the person hurt you the more you loved them? Could you have imagined he was creating his reality based on his feeling of the moment? How could you know he was mirroring you to feel whole and exist? How could you know his emotional maturity prevented him from having a mature, reciprocal relationship with you?
Realizing it was a serious mental illness running it's course and knowing the most compassionate thing to do for you and the person you gave your vows to is to detach will allow you to take comfort in doing what is realistically best for your situation.

[vortex of confusion]

how could you have ever known when you made your vows together that an illness would exist (and your partner actually had it) that made the person hurt you the more you loved them?

Thank you for this! One of the things that had me perplexed before I learned about BPD and all of this stuff was the fact that it seemed like the more I loved him and the more I gave him, the more he hurt me and the more he withdrew.