How to respond/set limit to leaving threats

[iamstarstuff]

Lately my husband (diagnosed mild/high-functioning BPD) has been talking a lot about how he needs his own space. He will say things like, "I just want my own apartment", "I just want to be happy" or "This isn't the life I wanted". I would say the comments are escalating in frequency, and despite my attempts to depersonalize I am really struggling. I would like to set a limit around this, but am not sure how. I want to say just leave then, if that's what you really want. I don't see how that would be productive, however.

I know I'm not that great at mirroring feelings, and I probably invalidate more than validate. They are skills I'm working on. I understand I need to spend more time looking inwards to see what I can change.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

I'm sorry that you are having this difficulty.

Validation is a tricky tool. If done correctly it can really open up communication; if done incorrectly it can cause things to blow up quickly. Without knowing a lot of details, it sounds like your H is feeling a need to escape from something. Perhaps you could validate this by saying, "I can understand your need for space." Sometimes just asking more questions can help: "What's causing you to feel unhappy?" Have you started reading through the lessons on the right? They can really help you understand your H behavior and the dynamics between the two of you.

Here's one of the workshop on validating. It provides some examples of what is and what is not validating language.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

[livednlearned]

Hi iamstarstuff,

I wonder if he is particularly sensitive to feelings of engulfment (talked about less than fear of abandonment, but can sometimes be equally in play for pwBPD).

Another thought that might apply to your situation -- With my BPD loved one, when she is in a needy/clingy phase, she is helpless and docile and almost childlike. Then, when she wants to self-activate and feel competent, any kind of help is perceived as overbearing and dominant.

I try to use validating questions with her so that I can validate (like Tattered Heart suggests) while also demonstrating my confidence in her capabilities.

[iamstarstuff]

Thank you for the pointers. I have started the lessons and will read about validating questions.

This morning he said he just feels so much anger, is unhappy and has decided he is going to leave.

[isilme]

Leaving is a common threat/solution.  A pwBPD seems to feel that they can run from their issues since they rarely admit their issues begin inside themselves.

I think the others are right, it's part of the push-pull dynamic.  He feels he needs to establish independence, but at the actual point of doing so, I bet the rubber band will snap him back in some fashion, either by not really leaving, or by leaving but having a crisis you need to help solve.  And he will also most likely try to frame it as you "made" him leave, so if it backfires it's not his fault. 

I'd ask more about the feelings of unhappiness and anger, if possible, or find simple ways you can be away from the house doing other tasks (go out with any friends, get some errands taken care of, find a place to volunteer) where your pwBPD both ahs the space they think they need and also have to deal with the void they claimed they wanted.  It prevents you from sitting around a mopey person who expects you to also be mopey, angry, unhappy so their feelings are somehow justified, and maybe make your H work a bit on regulating himself without you there as a target to blame. 

[iamstarstuff]

When I got home from work today my husband informed me that he has made an appointment with a lawyer to file for divorce. I'm so confused, shocked, devastated.

[ArleighBurke]

Stop and breathe! This is probably a big blow to you, but remember everythings takes time, so there is a lot of time for things to get sorted.

Try not to look at his actions - him getting a lawyer is probably his miguided solution to a separate problem. Ignore that if you can. Instead, try to get him to talk about his feelings (to try to discover WHY he would do that).

BPDs are all or nothing. It could be as simple as him being annoyed that the kids mess up the papers on his desk or something as small, and the "only" solution he can think of is leaving. Validation, asking, probing, may help you identify where he is at.

[iamstarstuff]

Instead, try to get him to talk about his feelings (to try to discover WHY he would do that).

I *think* I already know why. He has talked a lot about how overwhelmed he feels by our busy home (3 boys: 9, 6 and 3, small bungalow). There is nowhere for him to escape to - yet when we discuss moving to a larger home he says that's committing to more of the life he never wanted. He has said that he knew right from the beginning that being married, owning a home, having children would be very difficult for him, but that he has never been able to advocate for himself and has been pulled along by my dominance. He certainly feels a lack of control, and that he is only here to provide a paycheque. He told me the other day that I'm more like a sister to him than a wife; the meaning/feeling behind that one I'm struggling with a great deal.

[Grey Kitty]

  This is tough news to handle!

When I got home from work today my husband informed me that he has made an appointment with a lawyer to file for divorce. I'm so confused, shocked, devastated.

One thing you can do in response to any threat to leave / divorce / etc. is to validate that he has that choice if he wants it, even though you don't. Something like this:

"I love you and want to stay together with you, but I won't keep you if you choose to leave."

That can help when it is a threat to get your attention.

OTOH, this sounds like a new level for him, and I would suggest you be prepared for actual legal filings. You would do well to see your own lawyer and figure out how a divorce would work out, what kind of child support or spousal support could be involved, how assets and debts would be divided/handled like the house, pensions/IRAs, etc.

And consider posting on the Family Law and Custody board here with your situation--you will get some good advice there on how to pick a lawyer and how to use one to protect yourself, if this does get ugly.

[livednlearned]

He has said that he knew right from the beginning that being married, owning a home, having children would be very difficult for him, but that he has never been able to advocate for himself and has been pulled along by my dominance.

This must be really painful to hear from someone who is supposed to be your partner  

When he says these things to you, how do you respond?

It could be that his mind is made up and there is nothing that can be said or done to help repair things. Even so, there are ways to communicate that may help prevent a bigger dysregulation that bleeds into the next stage (filing, custody, etc.).

How do your children interact and/or feel about their dad? Is he an involved father?

[iamstarstuff]

Thanks Grey Kitty. That is how I have responded in the past and this time, too. I have been clear that I wouldn't want things to "get ugly" and wouldn't stand in his way. I imagine the more amicable a separation is the better it is for the children.

When he says these things to you, how do you respond?

How do your children interact and/or feel about their dad? Is he an involved father?

livednlearned, I have been trying to listen with empathy and validate, although I realize this has been difficult for me and I have not done that well at the process. Sometimes I have just said, okay.

He is an involved father. I work M-F and he works 12hr shifts as an RN. For many years he has been quite involved in the child care when on his days off (his schedule is 2 days, 2 nights, then 5 days off). More often than not their interactions are positive and he is a wonderful father. However, I would say things have been degrading over the past 18 months. Our middle son (who happens to be a lot like my husband and very sensitive) has verbalized  that he doesn't want to be taken to school by daddy, or be alone with daddy if I go out in the evening with a friend. He has said that daddy always gets angry and says ___ a lot. I am quite concerned about their interactions. My husband said today that he thinks he can be a better father if we separate and he has his own apartment, with full control over everything in his life.

[livednlearned]

Our middle son (who happens to be a lot like my husband and very sensitive) has verbalized  that he doesn't want to be taken to school by daddy, or be alone with daddy if I go out in the evening with a friend. He has said that daddy always gets angry and says ___ a lot. I am quite concerned about their interactions.

My son has a similar sensitive temperament to his dad, too. Kids like this who have a BPD parent need special care and a ton of validation. Does your son have a therapist? It's never too early to start -- a child who asks you to stay home because he is afraid of being alone with dad is telling you something that you need to hear.

I say this only because there is a lot of heritability to BPD and things can start to manifest in the teen years that will break your heart.

My husband said today that he thinks he can be a better father if we separate and he has his own apartment, with full control over everything in his life.

Living on his own might relieve some of the anxiety he feels around intimacy, diminishing some of the defensive stuff, so there may be some truth to what he says. Even so, parenting is stressful and people with BPD don't tend to handle stress well, especially when it involves kids.

Full control over everything in his life is probably a fantasy. When he doesn't find full control, he will deal with his new reality the same as he always has, is my guess.

What happens when you validate him?

[iamstarstuff]

-- a child who asks you to stay home because he is afraid of being alone with dad is telling you something that you need to hear.  

Do you have any advice for how to handle the child's feelings (he is 6yo) other than validation? Should I be minimizing the time spent with daddy? If we do separate my husband says he wants the kids ~50% of the time; I suspect this son may freak out at the idea of that... .

I'm not sure I completely understand your question of what happens when I validate him. There is definitely less conflict when I do, but I'm not very good at it, yet. He has said that I don't get him at all and we are fundamentally incompatible due to my personality. He seems convinced that I exacerbate his BPD.

[livednlearned]

Do you have any advice for how to handle the child's feelings (he is 6yo) other than validation? Should I be minimizing the time spent with daddy? If we do separate my husband says he wants the kids ~50% of the time; I suspect this son may freak out at the idea of that... .

The best thing I did was to get my son into therapy with someone who had the skills to help him. The earlier, the better, if you can. And let him know you get it! He's scared, he's telling you. If you are vulnerable and not sure what to do, that's ok -- tell him you are trying to figure this out, and hear what he is saying, and point out when he is being resilient and handling his dad in a skillful way. "We're all trying to learn better skills, me and you both. I saw you talking to daddy in a skillful way last week. Remember what you said? You did xyz."

There is a book called Umbrella for Alex that might also be helpful.

And yes, if you can minimize time together with dad, that's preferable. Kids have way fewer resources to handle stress than we do. Our world is much larger, their's is very contained and you are all-powerful to him, his dad too. Try to get into that head space and reassure him in an honest way that it's good he can talk about his feelings, and that you are glad he can share with you how he feels, that you are learning skills and together you can both do this, and that things might be rocky for a while and that's why you have each other. He just needs to know he has someone he can turn to and express the intensity of emotions without repercussion or worse, neglect

Also, your H is sending mixed messages. On one hand this isn't the life he wanted, on another hand he wants 50/50 with the kids. Anecdotally, I notice that the BPD dads discussed on these boards talk a big game about wanting time with the kids, then fail to follow through. You may find that he doesn't come close to 50/50 with the kids, especially if he thinks you are dating and/or continuing to "control" him by trying to schedule things and plan ahead. In general, I think BPD dads do better in short increments with kids. My ex was much better at being a dad for a few hours on Saturday than a whole weekend.

He seems convinced that I exacerbate his BPD.

Most intimate partners exacerbate their loved one's BPD traits -- it is largely a relational disorder. The more intimate the relationship, the more likely pwBPD will dysregulate. We tend to feel the most emotional arousal (both good and bad) for people who know us best, and for pwBPD, that means rocketing around on the emotional roller coaster most with our significant others and kids and family members.

It is usually much less personal than it feels although I know that is small comfort   

[iamstarstuff]

I must admit to feeling somewhat overwhelmed. There are so many variables/options/choices flying around in my mind. I'm not sure my H even wants to separate anymore (typical, I know).

I will check out that book, I think a way to open the door to conversation with our older two would be helpful.

Maybe my H and I need to try and find a way for him to spend more time away from the house... .a monthly weekend away?

The feelings of lack of control have been bad lately (past few months). One thing he keeps coming back to is our finances, as we just have a joint account. Perhaps it is time to each get our own?

Sorry... .just so much going on in my mind right now. I appreciate all  your ideas.

[livednlearned]

The feelings of lack of control have been bad lately (past few months). One thing he keeps coming back to is our finances, as we just have a joint account. Perhaps it is time to each get our own?

 Do you think it's a good idea to split the accounts? What reasons is he giving for wanting a separate account? How much does he recommend going into both accounts? Would you have a separate account just for you?

In general, it rarely works out well to agree to something that could potentially harm you if the goal is to appease him.

However, if there are ways to do this that protect you financially while giving him a sense of adequacy (e.g. managing his own budget), that could alleviate the BPD feelings that he is under your control.