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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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roberto516
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« on: February 28, 2017, 12:12:04 PM »

I sent her an email about a relationship article about not giving up (see previous post) and her only reply was "Are you giving Lilly away?" That's the dog we bought together that I took because she couldn't take care of it. I don't even want to reply. After it's clear she only cares about that and not anything I said in the email. If I reply she will ignore me again and I'll feel worse. Is it bad I want to, for once, have the edge here?
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“Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.”
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2017, 12:49:12 PM »

"I sent her an email about a relationship article about not giving up (see previous post) and her only reply was "Are you giving Lilly away?" That's the dog we bought together that I took because she couldn't take care of it. I don't even want to reply. After it's clear she only cares about that and not anything I said in the email. If I reply she will ignore me again and I'll feel worse. Is it bad I want to, for once, have the edge here?"

If she is not capable of taking care of a dog she doesn't seem very worthy to me.  You're not going to be able to reverse her disorder or convince her to come back, as she will continue the devaluing stage until you're discarded no matter what you say or do, they will only point out flaws here on out.  The only way to win against a BPD is to protect your self esteem and live your life, it will get better man but you have to accept the pain in the mean time, they on the other hand won't get better unless treated and that isn't even 100%.


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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2017, 12:52:52 PM »

Is it bad I want to, for once, have the edge here?

bad? no. helpful to you? probably not.

youre hurting. shes not in a place, or the right person to soothe your wounds; though it is natural that you would want her to.

do you have a support system in terms of friends/family? are you seeing a therapist?
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 01:21:02 PM »

Roberto-

This stuff is really hard... .I am there with you!

Within a day of her discarding me, I took pics on my phone and sent them to her one by one of all the things that I thought had meant something to us and our relationship... .before chucking them off my apartment balcony.  I was mad; I was sad; I was devastated... .I was trying to elicit some guilt or empathy from her... .or just an apology from her for ruining my life, my dreams... .

But Borderlines have difficulty showing empathy or concern for other's feelings... .the only response I got from her was about the cushioned stool I heaved off the balcony into the dumpster... .it was the magical stool that we used in our lovemaking... .after a day her only response was a text that read, "too bad you got rid of the stool."

Absolutely incapable of any empathy whatsoever.
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roberto516
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 01:28:22 PM »

Roberto-

This stuff is really hard... .I am there with you!

Within a day of her discarding me, I took pics on my phone and sent them to her one by one of all the things that I thought had meant something to us and our relationship... .before chucking them off my apartment balcony.  I was mad; I was sad; I was devastated... .I was trying to elicit some guilt or empathy from her... .or just an apology from her for ruining my life, my dreams... .

But Borderlines have difficulty showing empathy or concern for other's feelings... .the only response I got from her was about the cushioned stool I heaved off the balcony into the dumpster... .it was the magical stool that we used in our lovemaking... .after a day her only response was a text that read, "too bad you got rid of the stool."

Absolutely incapable of any empathy whatsoever.

I'm seriously thankful for all the support. I am seeing a therapist. The callousnes enrages me. And we used to work together. I just want to scream to people about how she is this fake and fraud. How she has not a caring bone in her body. I'm not going to naturally. But I know what would happen. Many of the coworkers would go "huh yeah now that you mention it she was always very self-centered". Again, I won't do that.

And I spoke to my dad yesterday and a friend about how, just like you said, all I have gotten is "I'm sorry you are hurt" and "I'm sorry you are feeling this way." Not once did I get a sincere, personal apology where she realized what she did. Because she thinks we just "grew apart". No we didn't. I set boundaries and wanted to work through our arguments and disagreements. And she ran. It's a sickness. Through and through.
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2017, 01:49:07 PM »

it sounds like you are feeling the intense pain of rejection from a loved one, and trying to reverse those feelings. it is indeed a very painful experience.

going forward, especially short term, its going to help you most to stay centered and grounded, easier said than done, i know, but something you will be very grateful for down the line. one of the best methods is to practice "wise mind".

after a breakup, its natural to want the person we are hurting over to soothe our pain, and it feels like they are the only one in the world who can, but as i said, that person is in no position to do so.

Triggering and Mindfulness and Wise Mind: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind



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roberto516
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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2017, 02:00:53 PM »

it sounds like you are feeling the intense pain of rejection from a loved one, and trying to reverse those feelings. it is indeed a very painful experience.

going forward, especially short term, its going to help you most to stay centered and grounded, easier said than done, i know, but something you will be very grateful for down the line. one of the best methods is to practice "wise mind".

after a breakup, its natural to want the person we are hurting over to soothe our pain, and it feels like they are the only one in the world who can, but as i said, that person is in no position to do so.

Triggering and Mindfulness and Wise Mind: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind





It's so funny you say that. Because when my grandpop passed away I even told her "I'm gonna go to my parents because I don't feel like you can support me like I need." and she said "yes I can!" only to stay completely absorbed in her own stuff. So it's true that she was never in a position to do so. Maybe that's why we lasted 15 months. Because it was the first time I asked for support in any real way. And I realized the concerns, made my boundaries loud and clear to see if she would try, and she bailed. And just like that dropped all emotional attachment.
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2017, 02:06:45 PM »

And I realized the concerns, made my boundaries loud and clear to see if she would try,

can you elaborate on this?
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roberto516
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2017, 02:14:29 PM »

can you elaborate on this?

I finally started to realize truly that she might be more self-centered than I thought and it was a real shock to see that when I needed help with my grief just in terms of support and comfort she could only do it for a day and a half. I understand why now because she's incapable of caring about somebody else but my boundaries were I have concerns I feel like we're losing a connection can we work on creating more of a connection. My boundaries were that I would like some more affection even just in terms of spending time together watching movies like we use to.

She said to build that connection I would need to try sleeping in the bed again and just being more thoughtful like I used to so I started to sleep in the bed again and I started to get her random gifts and I kept telling her good things about herself which is something I never stop doing.

And then a couple times we tried to watch a movie and within 10 minutes she would go in the bedroom cuz she was tired and there was never really any effort on her part and when I saw that it's when I left her house to make it really clear that I was going to need a partnership and then when I stayed away for about 2 weeks making sure she knew I was serious that's when she cut off feelings and just became this different person who seems like they never even cared about me

But it all makes sense now because it was the first time in 15 months that I was ever really insistent and didn't just give in and be the one to apologize even though I felt hurt and I guess she immediately started to fear the abandonment and figured it's going to be safer for me if I'm the one in control and I Leave You
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2017, 02:23:37 PM »

My boundaries were that I would like some more affection even just in terms of spending time together watching movies like we use to.

this is a misapplication of the concept of boundaries. boundaries are not something you ask of another person. it is, however, a clearly stated request, and it does sound like it wasnt something she could live up to. ive got a close circle of friends. some of them are not exactly good shoulders to cry on (no one is perfect) but they have lots of qualities that make them otherwise great friends. i dont expect something they cant give. thats my boundary, and its respecting theirs.

whats my point here? this sounds like the power struggle stage of a relationship (every relationship has one; some relationships break down as a result, some thrive). two weeks is a pretty long time for space (and typically, when we do this to send a message, it backfires). how far into your relationship did this occur?
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mar356
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2017, 02:33:06 PM »

"whats my point here? this sounds like the power struggle stage of a relationship (every relationship has one; some relationships break down as a result, some thrive). two weeks is a pretty long time for space (and typically, when we do this to send a message, it backfires). how far into your relationship did this occur?"

What is the power struggle stage suppose to determine, who wears the pants?  I've heard of this before, but I never really understood it... .Are you saying a 50/50 relationship is not normal?

I'd say in my past relationship this would have happened about 2 months in, and since I wasn't budging on being controlled by another so she split me black. 
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 02:38:10 PM »

What is the power struggle stage suppose to determine, who wears the pants? 

the dynamics of a relationship. how conflict is resolved. feeling each other out, testing each others boundaries. a certain amount of trying to mold/change the other person. most of it is subconscious/unconscious, its all typical stuff.

more here (you can google it too): https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

im not sure there is such thing as a "50/50 relationship". one or both partners will always fall short in certain areas. one person cant meet all of another persons needs, certainly not consistently.

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roberto516
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2017, 02:38:32 PM »

this is a misapplication of the concept of boundaries. boundaries are not something you ask of another person. it is, however, a clearly stated request, and it does sound like it wasnt something she could live up to. ive got a close circle of friends. some of them are not exactly good shoulders to cry on (no one is perfect) but they have lots of qualities that make them otherwise great friends. i dont expect something they cant give. thats my boundary, and its respecting theirs.

whats my point here? this sounds like the power struggle stage of a relationship (every relationship has one; some relationships break down as a result, some thrive). two weeks is a pretty long time for space (and typically, when we do this to send a message, it backfires). how far into your relationship did this occur?

This occurred right at the end about 15 months in. But let me clarify little because even during the break I was actually trying to text her I even picked her up some things at work when people came with gifts and I let her know I got them for her the problem was that every weekend for those two weeks she asked me to come to her house and I asked her if there was ever going to be a time that we were going to meet up without having me go to her and she said I don't know. And then the next day is when she cut off feelings. My therapist believes that was the moment because I wasn't playing by her rules and I wasn't giving in so she probably feared the abandonment and ran.

I had just had enough of communicating my hurt then she would get defensive we both get angry and then after some time I'd always come back apologizing so I guess I wanted to see if she cared and or recognized for once that I felt really hurt by her actions. It got too draining to always be the empathetic one and be the one to try and make the changes while she kept living the same way.

I guess the thing I was trying to change if anything was that she would actually care about me and instead of it being a 90/10 me all the time if it could for just a little bit be maybe 50-50
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2017, 02:51:07 PM »

i made many of the same efforts to get my ex to "see the light".

roberto, have you read the article on surviving a breakup with someone with BPD? it includes the ten beliefs that can keep us stuck, both during and after the relationship.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard

We often feel that if we explain our point better, put it in writing, say it louder, or find the right words ... .we will be heard. People with BPD hear and read just fine. Everything that we have said has been physically heard. The issue is more about listening and engaging. When the relationship breaks down and emotions are flared, the ability to listen and engage diminishes greatly on all sides. And if we try to compensate by being more insistent it often just drives the interaction further into unhealthy territory. We may be seen as aggressive. We may be seen as weak and clingy. We may be seen as having poor boundaries and inviting selfish treatment. We may be offering ourselves up for punishment. It may be denial, it may be the inability to get past what they feel and want to say, or it may even be payback. This is one of the most difficult aspects of breaking up - there is no closure.

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

We often think that by holding back or depriving our “BPD” partner of “our love” – that they will “see the light”. We base this on all the times our partner expressed how special we were and how incredible the relationship was. Absence may make the heart grow fonder when a relationship is healthy – but this is often not the case when the relationship is breaking down. People with BPD traits often have "object permanence" issues – “out of sight is out of mind”. They may feel, after two weeks of separation, the same way you would feel after six. Distancing can also trigger all kinds of abandonment and trust issues for the “BPD” partner (as described in #4). Absence generally makes the heart grow colder.


the point isnt to monday morning quarterback. i think we all gave the best we could with what we had in these relationships. its about a balanced understanding of how our relationships broke down (most of us tend to wonder "what happened? how did i get here?", and the answers are key to detachment) and what we can learn, and use going forward in finding healthy relationships.
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 11:37:20 AM »

Roberto- I sent you a PM
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roberto516
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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 11:45:49 AM »

Roberto- I sent you a PM

Duped I did receive it. But it says you aren't accepting messages at this time. Perhaps something in your settings? Let me know if you figure it out. I'd love to reply.
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