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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Responding (or not) To Excessive Blame and Criticsm  (Read 711 times)
DaddyBear77
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« on: February 07, 2017, 01:11:18 PM »

Ok so this might seem like a really dumb or weird question - I'm guessing a more "healthy" non would know what to do - but... .

For the first time in a couple of years, I am away on a business trip, spending 2 nights away from home. The morning I left, my uBPDw decided to really "tee off" on me. It started with "why don't you ever get your clothes dry cleaned?" (I do). "Why don't you practice basic hygiene?" (I do). Anyway, it escalated and escalated and by the time I finally got to the airport I was completely drained, depressed, and just generally miserable.

Today is day 2 and the faucet of criticism and blame is still wide open. Text messages keep coming and so far I've just tried to keep my head in my work and ignore these bombs sitting in my inbox.

My question is this - what should I say if and when I eventually DO respond? Historically I'd engage on the specific topics and eventually take too much blame / responsibility.

I'm trying to dig back into resources like SWOE and Stop Caretaking before I respond, but I'm still not sure what to do.

Help?

DB
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 03:33:49 PM »

Is it possible that he feels abandoned and dysregulated as a result?

Can you look past the personal attacks and at the underlying emotion(s) and formulate a response from there?

Without much more to go on, I can see myself responding with something to the effect of:

Excerpt
You seemed really upset over the past few days. I hope that my business trip didn't upset you.

Or, perhaps:

Excerpt
You seemed really upset over the past few days. Was something wrong?

You get the idea. There's no real point in trying to defend yourself or JADE, it will only likely escalate the situation. When a non JADEs, it typically invalidates the pwBPD and makes things worse.

I know how hard it is to see past the accusations and insults. It takes a lot of strength to not take it all personally, but in the interest of better communication, it may be worth a shot to try.

You might find something that you can validate. The validation might open the lines of communication for a less volatile discussion.

What do you think?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2017, 06:22:34 AM »

There is a saying in my co-dependency 12 step group " we teach others how to treat us". Your wife may have her reasons to say what she says to you. However, that isn't something you can control. Your part in this is that you allow her to do this.

Maybe it is fear, or thinking you are a caring person, but is it really being loving to allow her to treat you poorly? Are you enabling her to be less of a person than she can be?

Again, think of a kid. One 5 year old is calling another one a poopy face. The other kid punches him. What does a parent do?

A parent does not allow this. A parent teaches a child to manage his/her feelings, to "use their words" to say " you hurt my feelings" "please give me my toy back" not " poopy face" and also not to hit.

What your wife is saying to you is about her, not you. It is her expressing her own doubts, pain, feelings. It is important that you see this and not take it personally. Next time she does this, imagine she is saying " you poopy head". Then calmly say " It sounds like you are upset, but I can not speak to you when you address me like this". Then, you disengage. She's going to pitch a fit ( extinction burst) but you have to keep at this. This isn't about changing her. It is about expecting people to communicate with you like mature adults.

Is there something in your background that predisposes you to accepting this? I know that in my case, this was "normal" in my FOO. I was expected to tolerate my parents speaking to me like this, and behave, or have them withdraw their love. That is terrifying as a child. So as an adult, I allowed others to be verbally abusive to me because it felt like normal.

So long as I allowed this, it wasn't likely to change. But once I set a boundary around this, it slowly changed over time. I have stopped conversations in the middle- it takes two to talk. I have abruptly left my parents' home, politely cut off phone conversations - and without explaining. A validating statement my help but JADE does not. But actions speak louder than words and sometimes I would say very little or just stop talking/leave. If you are worried about your child, put her in the car, tell mom you are going out- to the park, to get dinner- whatever and just leave.

Yes, she may rage, trash the house, make threatening calls, but unless you hold on to a boundary, these relationship tools will work for her. People aren't likely to give up the behaviors that work for them.
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2017, 08:04:06 AM »

DaddyBear77 - I am sorry you are having to deal with this.  It is so hard to try and work when you know the moment you check your messages it will bring you down.  When my D20 goes off on text messages, I send one message saying that I will not respond to disrespectful messages. If she wants to have a respectful conversation with me I am happy to talk to her.  This took a while for her to realize I was ignoring her negative, disrespectful texts - but at this point, for the most part, she knows I ignore those types of communication.  A relationship with a spouse is different, but I think the same concept may be helpful.  Stay Strong!
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 12:18:09 PM »

Today is day 2 and the faucet of criticism and blame is still wide open. Text messages keep coming and so far I've just tried to keep my head in my work and ignore these bombs sitting in my inbox.

 Thought First idea - "Mute" her on your phone so you don't get notifications of when each bit of abuse is coming in. It should help you concentrate on work.

 Thought You might want to delete them without reading them, or even block her while you are on the trip. Chances are you won't get anything new; the abuse will probably be the same old familiar crap she usually spews. 

 Thought One principle I held to was that I *NEVER EVER* brought up an issue that had come up in a dysregulated abusive bit of spewage at me at a later time. Here's how I saw it:

If the problem was important, she would bring it up again, and I could deal with it then.

If the problem didn't seem to be bothering her later, was I really going to be so stupid as to bring it up and invite another round of vile abuse spewed at me?

 Bullet: contents of text or email (click to insert in post) Meili had some really good suggestions for validation here. If you are new to validation, it is a new skill and it is hard to learn to do well. That is relevant, because validating somebody who is dysregulated at you is really difficult, really advanced stuff.

Don't be surprised if you don't get good results trying this sort of validation, especially at first.

Validation is better used at times when she's not spitting mad at you. You can validate other feelings besides being upset. You can validate her feelings about other people.

I view the best use of validation as a way to "turn down the heat" on the stove in general given regular application. When the pot is already boiling over, other tools are more consistently effective.
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DaddyBear77
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2017, 01:47:35 PM »

Thanks for everyone's advice on this.

I'm back from my business trip now. I just wanted to update everyone on how that went.

After about 12-16 hours of nearly complete silence on my part (save a few short "family business" exchanges), I said "So you had some things you wanted to talk about... ." She was much calmer, and the structure of the conversation was much less hostile and confrontational, but the content was still completely insane - accusations of lying, wanting to cheat, wanting to leave, etc, all obviously related to her fear of abandonment.

We chatted for about 30 minutes, I apologized for a couple of things I felt that it was appropriate to apologize for, and we both called it a night. The rest of the week was fairly smooth, with only a few tense exchanges mixed in.

The bottom line is this - Notwendy's ideas of letting myself be treated so horribly are spot on. Grey Kitty and his suggestions about validation are also very relevant to me - I can't figure out how to validate her most of the time because I can't get past how outrageous some of the claims and accusations are. But in the end, I see that it's a critical skill.

Thank you again to everyone for all your help with this.

DB
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 09:48:37 AM »

I apologized for a couple of things I felt that it was appropriate to apologize for

Did she apologize for anything?

Can you give us an example of one of the things you apologized for?

FF
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DaddyBear77
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 11:30:45 PM »

Eh, the truth is I apologized for pretty much everything - I accepted blame again for "sneaking around" on past trips, for having "inappropriate" conversations with female high school friends and coworkers, etc, etc.

She apologized for nothing.

I gotta stop spinning this and convincing myself this is normal or healthy or helping anything really.

Sometimes, though, I start to convince MYSELF that I really DID cause all the problems.

Backing out of such an outrageous web of lies is really hard. I often think that just walking away is the best and only option.

I'm hoping others can relate.

DB
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 06:42:50 AM »

Did you do these things or apologize to appease her? Sometimes this kind of thing does lead to being sneaky- not because we did something wrong but to avoid the questioning and fallout. Then we are sneaky and that is triggering.

There is a difference between being sneaky and having boundaries. I don't think we need to explain a conversation with a friend that is within boundaries of not cheating. You know the line. Saying "congratulations on your child's graduation " , "remember this classmate?" is not something to apologize for.

The problem with being sneaky to avoid confrontation is that we diminish our own values by being sneaky.  It's a challenge to be authentic but that's what we need to do. That doesn't mean we can't have privacy too.

You mentioned leaving as a possible solution. It's been said that we choose people who match us in some way and that leaving one relationship and getting into another without understanding our role in the dysfunction risks recreating a similar dysfunction with someone else. It is up to you to determine whether leaving or staying is right for you - but the self examination and relationship skills learned from working on your side of this are skills you have for any relationship.
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 07:28:26 AM »


Boundaries and standing up for yourself... .will likely lead to you being a more honest person... .and less triggering to your pwBPD.

I'll show an example with a confession.

I used to be dishonest with my wife... .likely she picked up on it... and it made things worse.  (All those that passed out about FFs dishonesty... .I'll give you a minute to compose yourself... )

Anyway... .as we know... .pwBPD ask whacky questions.  I used to say things like "I don't know anything about that... .or... .I don't remember"  When I actually did know/remember. 

I was attempting to avoid a fight... .and ended up causing (being responsible for) an even bigger one... .and validated (unwittingly) my wife's sense that I am a fundamentally dishonest person.

Well... .once I started learning about my part in the dynamic ... .  I started being more direct... more honest.

"I don't feel comfortable talking to you about that right now... ."  "That was a private conversation between  X and I"  "Let me give this some thought before I answer, I don't want to break confidentiality that I have with Y"

You get the picture. 

Initially my wife's reactions were more extreme... .once I powered through them... .things got dramatically better

Seems like I remember the day I declared victory over this... .I certainly can't remember word for word... .but my wife huffed and said  something like... ."You probably wouldn't tell me anyway... ."  I'm certain I had way to much "snark" in my response... .but it simply was something like "Your probably right... ."

I also try to be very forthright when there is no confidence to be held.

For instance... .I told the kids I was helping a friend exchange a mattress at the furniture store and would be back soon.  When mommy got home... .they relayed this info to her. 

At some point that evening she ask who it was... .without much hesitation I gave a name... .but no further  explanation.  She didn't ask any further.  Reasoning.  If I had launched into a big explanation... .it would have been a lot more words that perhaps would have been triggered.  If she wants more info... .she will ask.


FF
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Meili
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 09:53:57 AM »

I can't figure out how to validate her most of the time because I can't get past how outrageous some of the claims and accusations are. But in the end, I see that it's a critical skill.

Sometimes it is easier to start with learning how to not INVALIDATE rather than trying to force validation. I was shocked to learn how invalidating I was to my x. There are so many things that we say out of habit and the feeling that we need to justify, defend, and/or explain ourselves.
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 10:12:00 AM »


Getting past outrageous claims... .

For me... .more honesty was actually better.  Acknowledge and empathize at the same time with the "out there" nature of the accusation.

So... .she claims you have been banging the neighbor and plotting against her to ruin this Sunday's dinner after church.  And is clearly more upset over the dinner issue... .

Try your best to not laugh... .must all the genuine concern you can. 

"Oh babe... .now I can understand your distress.  Goodness sakes... .I'm going to have to think this through alone before I can properly respond.  I'll try to get back to you this evening... ."

Move along... .

FF
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2017, 10:12:48 AM »

Boundaries and standing up for yourself... .will likely lead to you being a more honest person... .and less triggering to your pwBPD.


In my case the less triggering part does not work out too well. Yes I am still here. The more boundaries I enforce I find that my wife "respects" those but then she finds something else to test me with. She tries to find a way to keep turning all the responsibility for the failing relationship on me. I am more honest now though. The less information the better

The boundaries I have had to enforce have made other aspects of my marriage not what I want in a marriage. For instance handling the schizophrenic stepson and my wife. I have been in my own room for 6 months now. The only way I can enforce a boundary with him and my wife's dysfunction together is either ask him to leave the room when he starts his harassment OR go back to my room and close the door OR leave the house.

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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2017, 10:42:04 AM »

Excerpt
Eh, the truth is I apologized for pretty much everything - I accepted blame again for "sneaking around" on past trips, for having "inappropriate" conversations with female high school friends and coworkers, etc, etc.

Hey DB, I used to apologize for everything, too, in order to keep the peace.  Now I don't see it as a healthy response, because it comes from a place of low self-esteem.  I suspect you know that some of the things you are apologizing for are ludicrous.  So why are you doing it?  Presumably out of fear, because you want to avoid another episode of abuse.  I did the same thing, so believe me I'm not judging you.  In my view, it eats away at one's core.  Worth thinking about.  In the meantime, suggest you listen to your gut feelings.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2017, 10:48:14 AM »

In my marriage, I have felt pretty healthy about just letting it go if I made through the initial exchange.  As has been said, if it's really important my uBPDw will likely bring it up again.  I remind myself to not carry around her baggage and try to deduce why she's moody again.  At first it felt unnatural to not worry about someone else and what they wanted, but, as me being separated from my wife seemed more like a survival skill, I got better at leaving her out of my mind.
I had a old gunny who used to say, ":)on't wrestle with pigs.  They like it, and you're going to get muddy."
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2017, 12:19:27 PM »

So I totally agree that being dishonest erodes my self esteem and degrades my values. Likewise, apologizing when I don't feel that it's something I should apologize for is essentially the same dishonest behavior that fuels the accusations in the first place.

I HAVE "snuck around," lied, manipulated, deflected, shifted blame - I did it all to avoid conflict, and more specifically, out of fear of my pwBPD's anger and rage. Bringing this back to one of the most pressing issues in my relationship, perhaps the most self destructive thing I've done is that I signed for many tens of thousands of dollars in high interest unaffordable loans just to avoid the anger and rage. What in the ___ have I done?

Ok, step back, what does "being honest" look like in this (or any) relationship with a pwBPD? Where do I start? How specifically do I start the conversation? Or do I wait for her to bring it up? What happens then? Do things escalate and then eventually subside as usual? Or does it go "all the way" until I'm forced to leave the house? Even if we get to that point, do I leave and then come back? Do I leave and plan to stay gone for some length of time? What about D3? (Insert standard language re: 'consult an attorney' here)

I know I won't have all the answers beforehand. I know I need to be flexible and prepare for multiple outcomes. But something else I know is that I can't wait any longer. I'm damned if I don't.

I've decided that simply leaving and walking away is not the right / healthy / good thing to do for me. There are too many things I've misled and lied about to leave it as is. More importantly, I think this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to really deal with MY issues that keep me stuck. Whether I stay or go in the long term, learning what makes me tick and changing the things that seem to need changing (according to ME, NOT her) will help me be a better dad, partner, and person.

So here I am. Ready to face this. What's next?
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2017, 12:49:46 PM »

Ok, step back, what does "being honest" look like in this (or any) relationship with a pwBPD? Where do I start? How specifically do I start the conversation? Or do I wait for her to bring it up? What happens then? Do things escalate and then eventually subside as usual? Or does it go "all the way" until I'm forced to leave the house? Even if we get to that point, do I leave and then come back? Do I leave and plan to stay gone for some length of time? What about D3?

Lots of big questions. I've got a few suggestions.

First, being honest isn't quite the same as being open and trusting.

Being dishonest to avoid conflict with her is a losing proposition 99% of the time. You've figured that out, so keep that lesson.

The 1% exception is that you do have a right to some private thoughts, and to relationships with friends and family, and if you can maintain those without confronting your wife about them, i.e. not telling her who you have lunch with, or having an email account to be in contact that she doesn't see, that seems reasonable.

You may also have to tell her that some things aren't her business and you won't be discussing them further with her, no apology, no caving in, and no engaging in a fight/dysregulation over it.

Being open and trusting would be telling her about your deeper feelings, concerns, and regrets over things you capitulated to her on before. You don't owe her that, and I strongly recommend you avoid or at least severely limit that--she hasn't proven herself to be trustworthy that way.

Your game plan going forward will have lots of adjustments. Trust that you will figure it out along the way. And know that we've got your back!
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2017, 02:05:35 PM »

Hey DB, I suggest starting with small steps, until you gain confidence.  Pick something easily doable, such as deciding that you're not going to apologize when it's unwarranted.  In my view, it all starts with returning the focus to yourself, your needs and your concerns.  Be good to yourself.  What can you do each day just for yourself?  Maybe call a friend or family member?  Suggest you listen to your gut feelings.  It seems to me like you already know on some level when you're faking it.  Strive to be authentic.  You get the idea!

LuckyJim
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2017, 02:17:17 PM »

  Or do I wait for her to bring it up? What happens then? 

Yes... .you wait.  When she "brings it"... .first try to listen... .reflect back and make sure you have it right.

Then... .thank her... .let her know you need to give it some deep thought.  Give time you will get back to her.

Right... we know many times we won't get that far.  When abusive talk starts... .exit... .let her know you will be back in 15 minutes.  Come back... if still upset... .back in 30 minutes.  Wash rinse repeat.

FF
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2017, 06:04:28 AM »

DB- are you willing to get some support in addition to this board? Counseling, support groups for co-dependency?

I think everyone has probably told a white lie, avoided saying things in order to avoid a scene, but taking it to the point of financial ruin is a serious breach of your own well being- and that of the family. I think it is a good thing to wonder what it is about you that you allowed this breach of your financial security and judgement?

I am not being critical- I am familiar with this issue both from being raised with it and dealing with the co-dependent traits I learned growing up. I so craved approval that I was willing to be a doormat. However, I did have limits- one of them is financial. I mentioned before that my father took out loans and got into debt not to meet our needs- his salary was sufficient for that- but to keep my mother happy with expensive things she felt she deserved. But this didn't improve her self esteem or help her with her own bad feelings. They were at best, a temporary fix until the next thing. My father was stressed from being in debt and we could see it- he would snap and be angry at us if we asked for anything we wanted. I learned then that I didn't want to be in debt if I could avoid it.

It is a slippery slope. Once the boundary of your own self preservation is broken, there doesn't seem a limit to what you may give up just to keep her happy. Because these external fixes are temporary.  Unless you have a limit on what you will give up, there may be no limit.

Your finances are limited at the moment, but there may be ways to get support at little or no cost in your community. 12 step groups have no fees, some domestic violence organizations have counselors ( yes, emotional abuse counts as DV and men can be subjected to that). I resisted the idea of a 12 step group at first- thought it was for alcohol abuse and that wasn't my issue, but co-dependency is broader and that is something I needed to work on. I found it to be helpful.
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2017, 07:42:05 AM »

DB- are you willing to get some support in addition to this board? Counseling, support groups for co-dependency?
 

Think of your "support system" as a stool.  Needs at least three legs to stand.

Leg 1:  bpdfamily.  Anonymous place you can let it all hang out... .totally open honest with people that "get it"

Leg 2:  Therapist and/or support groups.  Lots of the questions you are asking are best addressed by a therapist, because you can role play.  She says this... .then you say that... .T can stop and explain finer points and nuance in a way that a discussion board would never... .ever... .be able to do.  Online is just too cumbersome for that.

Leg 3:  Support group of family/friends that you can go to for "normalcy".  I usually recommend to limit or abstain from bringing up BPD stuff with them.  They likely don't "get it".  Much better that you have a place to go be you... .share a lunch and talk about "the game" or the new store in town.  Very important that you define your own life that is independent of BPDish stuff.

Hope this helps... .

FF
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2017, 03:15:10 PM »

DB- are you willing to get some support in addition to this board? Counseling, support groups for co-dependency?

I think everyone has probably told a white lie, avoided saying things in order to avoid a scene, but taking it to the point of financial ruin is a serious breach of your own well being- and that of the family.

Powerful post and no offense taken, at all. You're spot on Notwendy.

Think of your "support system" as a stool.  Needs at least three legs to stand.

Also extremely helpful FF thank you so much for adding that.

I am currently seeing a therapist. I really don't feel comfortable with him so I'd really like to switch, particularly back to one I saw a couple years ago who I felt much more comfortable with. As you might imagine, without boundaries, I allow my therapeutic relationships (Leg 2) to be just as manipulated as my family / friend relationships (Leg 3). That is to say, I'm under threat now whereby if I leave my current therapist, I've been told multiple times that my uBPDw will leave.

So for those of you keeping score:
1. If I refuse to buy expensive jewelry, uPBDw leaves
2. If I insist on having an (open) relationship with my Family of Origin, uBPDw leaves
3. If I switch to a therapist that is not on the "approved" list, uBPDw leaves
4. If I pursue a new financial way of life that most likely includes radically reduced spending and bankruptcy, uBPDw definitely leaves.
5. If I pursue a separation / divorce that involves ANY physical custody time 1:1 with D3, uBPDw has threatened / promised to fight by any means necessary to prevent that

*Note: on that last point, I HAVE spoken to lawyers and child advocates who assure me she will be unsuccessful, but given the ultra high risk, this is a particular sticking point.

I guess this expands the general theme of this thread, which started out as responding to blame and criticism. Now we're talking also about responding to threats and control and manipulation, which is related I think.

But back to what Notwendy, formflier, and others have brought up - what led me down this path in the first place? Because if I think back, 5 years ago we didn't have children yet I persisted. 3 years ago the finances were tight but not catastrophic. There were lots and lots of exit points / forks in the road but I picked the most destructive path possible.

When I've brought this up in therapy, I never quite get to a good answer as to why. But the consensus is always that it doesn't matter WHY as much as what you do NOW. I guess that's true, but I'd still like to really know why just the same.
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Lucky Jim
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 03:56:33 PM »

Hey DB, To the extent you are following points 1-5, I would submit that you are lost in the F-O-G, in this case Fear.  Your W knows that she can manipulate you by threatening to leave.  Don't fall for it.

I suggest you do any or all of the things that are currently verboten.  I don't mean to be flip, because you are in a serious quandary, but in my view the way out is through the eye of the storm.

You don't owe her expensive jewelry.  You have a right to see your FOO.  You are an adult and are free to choose your own T.  You have the right to live within your means.  You are allowed to separate or divorce, and custody will be up to the Court.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but you have to start somewhere.

LuckyJim





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    A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
Grey Kitty
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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2017, 06:08:04 PM »

If I recall your story correctly, your wife only makes threats to leave.

As LJ says, if she can get anything she wants out of you by threatening to leave, she will continue to threaten to leave. If you don't capitulation, she may or may not actually leave.

There are many members here with pwBPD who have left multiple times, then recycled.

There are also some whose pwBPD did leave, never to come back, or make any other contact, although those are much rarer.

And there are some who will threaten to leave/divorce/etc. on the drop of a hat, but won't take action.

You don't know what she will do... .but my guess is that she won't leave.
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formflier
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2017, 06:58:34 PM »


Ignoring divorce threats and doing as I thought best freed me from divorce threats.  And other threats really.

My value:  I don't respond to threats... period.  I also don't threaten, I act when I need to.


My whackiest threat story is in a church service a few years ago.  Wife suspected my latest Ho (perhaps since it's a churchy thing... I should use the word concubine... ) was seated a couple rows back. 

No kidding... in the middle of a church service my wife starts massaging my neck in a "come hither way".  Trust me... .I've never been touched that way in church.  Anyway... .then in a sultry voice she whispers in my ear... ."Kiss me now or our marriage is over... ."

I stood up and walked out of church... .wife stood up and followed.  She did wait until outside to start yammering away.  I didn't even look back at her.

I've been threatened with divorce over 100 times.  It's been well over a year... maybe two... since a divorce threat.  Really nice to be past that.

My guess is your wife will be the same.  Before you try to take action on this... .I think we should post more about it. 

But ultimately... .the only way to find out is to ignore the threat and press ahead.

FF
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Larmoyant
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 05:16:36 AM »

I agree threats are often made up on the spot in reaction to a situation, and can often be temporary, and as Grey Kitty says it sounds like this is the case with your wife. It doesn’t seem like she will really leave. Sometimes it’s hard to tell if the threats are real or not though. My ex once threatened to inform all my friends, family, colleagues what a disgrace of a person I was. He ended up acting on those feelings and caused a lot of upset. I’ve read on here about people being threatened with legal action too and the BPD being true to their word. True or not, as Lucky Jim says, they can definitely trigger the FOG causing a lot of anxiety particularly when your security is suddenly at stake.


My whackiest threat story is in a church service a few years ago.  Wife suspected my latest Ho (perhaps since it's a churchy thing... I should use the word concubine... ) was seated a couple rows back. 

No kidding... in the middle of a church service my wife starts massaging my neck in a "come hither way".  Trust me... .I've never been touched that way in church.  Anyway... .then in a sultry voice she whispers in my ear... ."Kiss me now or our marriage is over... ."

Whacky maybe, but understandable if we look at it from a borderline perspective.  Your wife likely perceived the ‘woman’ as a threat as she is afraid of abandonment. Feelings equal facts and her intense emotions led her to make advances to you for reassurance and to perhaps signal to the woman that you were hers. When that didn’t work, i.e. you failed to reciprocate her affections, understandable given where you were, she lashed out and threatened you. Feeling slighted or rejected is a very big deal to a pwBPD who maybe uses threats to gain control when she’s feeling out of control.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2017, 06:43:08 AM »

This sounds so sad DB. Telling you to spend excessive money on her under threat sounds like blackmail. People - and living creatures in general, continue a behavior so long as it works. This works for her- she has control and gets what she wants by doing this. She has no incentive to stop. You also persist in this out of fear, by complying, you achieve some sense of relief. But it's only temporary- until the next demand.

The cycle won't stop until you change your response- stand up for yourself- despite the threats.

At the moment, this is between you and her. D3 is young and relatively compliant, but one day, she will try to stand up for herself. If the behavior your wife has works for her, she will most likely use this with D3.

Growing up, we kids lived in fear of mother's "moods". She would even threaten them- if you don't do this, I will cause a "scene". We lived in fear of this because- this would upset our father and he would punish us. My fear of his anger at me led to me being a co-dependent doormat to my mother for decades.

Once my father passed away, I did find the courage to stand up to her. She doesn't like that, but it feels so much better to be able to stand up for myself. I know that you love your D3, but it would be a gift to her to stop this cycle now, before she becomes subjected to it. I hope that you find the strength to do this. A lawyer can inform you of your custody rights should she act on her threats to leave. But I also wonder if these are just empty threats.
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2017, 08:39:13 AM »

I hear your quandary. I know what it's like to have to think ahead about how to answer everything and what to say in order to play out what the repercussions will be and try to understand how it will be used against me.  I understand how it feels to be held a little in fear because of the potential of anger, hot or cold anger.

In my life, I am starting to push back and break down the facade.  I know I have more to learn as far as being not-invalidating, but, for me, in my spot, I've decided to error on the side of honesty.  I'm teetering on the verge of wanting a divorce anyway, so I figured I'd air it out.  And, if me being honest with myself, and being authentic drives her away, or us into turmoil, then so be it - I had to find out sooner or later. 

To my surprise, in some cases, my brutal honesty, presented with non accusatory ("I" statements) and calmness, have gone amazingly well.  I don't think my wife's agitated brain registers what I'm really saying, but, for what fragments do get through, I feel better having "come clean."

It's very hard for me to do something I see as selfish.  That's one reason I have a hard time advocating for myself, expressing and feeling my needs, feeling anything for myself, and not dressing things up to make someone else happy.  All those years of being a self-sacrificing provider / strong silent type have not paid god dividends.  I'm learning that there is such a thing as healthy selfishness.  That same spirit applies when facing blackmail (threats from uBPDw).   
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