We had a serious conversation

[eleven_11]

Hi everyone. I've posted on here before a few weeks back when I found out my ex was recently diagnosed with BPD. We finally had a serious conversation tonight where he told me that his outlook on life is not positive and he doesn't want a relationship and doesn't see himself being with anyone in the future. I told him that it feels like he is pushing away one of the people in his life who love and care about him the most (me). That is when he told me that he still wants me in his life, just not like how it was before. I told him that I want to be there to support him, but would he be okay if one day I did end up with someone else. (I asked this because a while back he got extremely upset that I was speaking to a male friend late at night on the phone). He said that for the past year he has been trying to convince himself that he'd be okay if that were to happen, but that hearing me say it makes his heart sink. I told him that the heart speaks volumes and he shouldn't have to ignore how he feels about this. I asked him to give us another chance and that how could we ever know if things could be right or wrong between us if he is pushing me away. I told him I don't need an answer now or even tomorrow, but to think about it. He brought up how difficult the last year of our relationship was because he felt unwanted. He said it scarred him. I told him that over the past year of our breakup, I've been working on learning about relationships and working on my communication skills and not being so passive-aggressive. I explained that no relationship is perfect, and it wont be smooth, but will it be worth it? Yes. I also said that I dont give up on the people I love no matter what. I've really worked on where I failed in my part of the relationship. He did stuff and I held onto grudges and did not express to him how I felt so I was very cold towards him (I didn't bring up that he did stuff in our convo tho). I explained to him that I loved him and never meant for him to feel that way, although how he felt and feels is valid. He told me my reply to his message was very mature considering his message was "shaky" and made him emotional. He then told me that we would continue this later as it is late where we are and we should get some sleep.

What should I take from this? I put myself out there and asked him to consider giving us a shot again to see if it feels right and if so, great and if not, thats okay too. I only asked him this because I know he cares for me and I know that we could make this work. I'm just not sure what to take from what he said tonight. Help please

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[stayingsteady]

Hi Eleven_11,

I think your willingness is definitely evident and that's wonderful.  I definitely believe that he may be interested in pursuing a relationship.  I'm confident the relationship skills you have been developing will also be a great help if you both choose to go this route.

One of the hardest things is being truly open to either option.  It seems the conversation went very well tonight and that's wonderful.  However, the effects of BPD could still influence his final choice so it's important to be accepting, and okay with, his choice either way.

I hope this helps,

- StayingSteady

[eleven_11]

Thank you so much for your reply. It means the world to me. I love him so much and I truly am so willing to work at our relationship. I have been reading books on BPD and educating myself on mental illness in general and working at communication especially (like I mentioned above). It makes me happy to hear that you feel like he could definitely be interested in pursuing a relationship with me again. Of course, I will have to prepare myself for either outcome, like you said. I wish he could see and I hope he feels how much I care for him.

Hi Eleven_11,

[Meili]

It sounds like you had a good discussion with him and you both provided valuable information. You were open and honest about how you felt and so was he. Validation of those feelings is so very important. It sounds like you did a great job!

I would argue that the ultimate outcome is not as important at this moment as the two of you working together. Casting aside all expectations will greatly benefit both of you. It takes commitment on both sides to make any relationship work.

Is he in therapy?

When he said that he wants you in his life, did he mention to what extent he wants that to be? What type of relationship will you be satisfied with?

What you want is just as important as what he wants.

[eleven_11]

It sounds like you did a great job!

Thank you very much Meili! I really appreciate that.

Is he in therapy?

I know for sure that he was in therapy from September till November.  I am not sure about now . . . he hasn't mentioned it and I haven't asked.

When he said that he wants you in his life, did he mention to what extent he wants that to be? What type of relationship will you be satisfied with?

I am not quite sure. I told him that I feel he is pushing away one of the people in his life that love and care for him the most, and that is when he told me he still wants me in his life, but just not like how it used to be. I told him that I want to be there for him to support him because I love him, but I asked if one day I did end up with someone else, would he ever be okay with that with us being in each other's lives . . . and that is when he told me that he has been trying to convince himself that he would be okay, but that hearing me say it makes his heart sink. I know that I want us to give it another chance (who doesn't deserve a second chance, right?). We were together for 5 years. I think he is so scared of us ending up in a bad place again, but I truly believe we learn from our mistakes and sometimes relationships break down to their core only to be built back up stronger.  I know that I personally have put in a ton of effort over the past year into reading books on relationships, mental health and now BPD after I found out he was diagnosed. I wish I knew then what I know now, you know?

[Meili]

Yes, I do know. I know those feelings all too well. I think that most on this particular board can relate.

If you view what you said from the stance of a non-BPD relationship that you might want to repair, it would likely have the same effect. None of us knows what the future holds, any relationship might break down and a new person is met. Now that you've said it, perhaps it's best to not bring it back up.

If you're truly willing to give him another chance, then putting the idea of meeting someone else in the future out of your head is probably a good idea. It's probably a great idea to not put it in his!

As I'm sure that you're aware by now, pwBPD fear abandonment. He is likely very afraid of things going poorly again. What can you do to give yourself the best chance at making this work?

[eleven_11]

If you're truly willing to give him another chance, then putting the idea of meeting someone else in the future out of your head is probably a good idea. It's probably a great idea to not put it in his!

Trust me, I do not have the thought in my head or want to be with someone else, but only brought it up to him because he told me he still wants me in his life, but the last time I was speaking to a male friend, he was super upset about it. I was just trying to figure out what kind of relationship he wanted us to have if it wasn't going to be like it used to be.

As I'm sure that you're aware by now, pwBPD fear abandonment. He is likely very afraid of things going poorly again. What can you do to give yourself the best chance at making this work?

Yes, I have read about the fear of abandonment. I agree . . . he is probably very likely afraid of that. What can I do to give myself the best chance at making this work? To be 100% honest with you, I have no clue what I am doing  I feel confused and I just want it to work out. I have been being very supportive of him and letting him know that I am there for him, always. He told me he is appreciative of me caring so much. I don't know if me asking him to think about giving us a second chance was a good thing or not. I really just put myself out there and told him that we will never know if we never try, type of thing. I know deep down that he doesn't truly feel the way he does (saying he doesn't want to be in a relationship with anyone and basically wants to be alone for the rest of his life). I know he doesn't want that and I know he loves love. I think if he just took that scary step and said, "Yes, let's take this day by day and see where it goes," he would see that we can make this work and make it great, even better and stronger than it was before. The first 3.5 years of our relationship were truly wonderful, so I know it is possible. Do you have any advice on how I can make it work? Thanks so much for helping me out. I really appreciate this.

[stayingsteady]

Meili,

I appreciate the advice you provided.  I'm in somewhat of a similar situation so the advice has been well needed for me as well.  

Your statements of not focusing on the ultimate outcome, casting aside all expectations, focusing on working together, and remembering that what I want is also important may be the best strands of advice I have heard for my own personal relationship in a long time.  

Thank you,

- StayingSteady

[Meili]

You are both most welcome. We are here to help and support one another.

Do you have any advice on how I can make it work? Thanks so much for helping me out. I really appreciate this.

Reading the links in the sidebar to the right of the page is a great place to start. It includes tools like listening with empathy, not being invalidating, and setting boundaries will go a long way to giving you the best chance to work things out.

Also, you need to work on you and take care of yourself, maintain your own relationships and interests, and stay focused only on what you can control.

[eleven_11]

Reading the links in the sidebar to the right of the page is a great place to start.

I have spent a while today reading through the links! I do have a question for you: should I let him message me when he feels comfortable, or should I message and continue the conversation where we left off? Last night when he cut off the conversation, he said that we will continue the conversation later, but I don't know when "later" is. I don’t want him to feel pressured.

[eleven_11]

Update: He messaged me tonight and asked me to do something with him tomorrow!

[Meili]

Update: He messaged me tonight and asked me to do something with him tomorrow!

Awesome!

Try to keep things light, bright, shiny, and fun. Don't bring up relationship talk, but don't ignore him if he does. This isn't a race, there is no need to rush things.

When I used to race motorcycles I learned somethings that seems to apply to all aspects of life - especially relationships: If you look past the next curve and focus on the finish line, you'll surely run off the track and will likely lose the race. Pay attention to where you are and set yourself up for the next curve after you've made it through the first one.

Just focus on the present and what's in front of you and let the next thing come as it will. Prepare yourself for the future, but don't execute on it until the time is right.

[eleven_11]

If you look past the next curve and focus on the finish line, you'll surely run off the track and will likely lose the race. Pay attention to where you are and set yourself up for the next curve after you've made it through the first one.

Just focus on the present and what's in front of you and let the next thing come as it will. Prepare yourself for the future, but don't execute on it until the time is right.

Thank you for this. You are absolutely right. I personally find it difficult to focus on the present at times, as I tend to overthink. I can't help wonder what he is thinking since our conversation, but I won't bring it up.

[eleven_11]

I've got an update from yesterday's meet up. It went really well. We laughed, joked around, conversed and it felt really nice. He was also very touchy. For example, trying to tickle me or holding my back when walking on the icy parts of the sidewalk. He put on my hood when he saw I was cold while walking outside. He said he wants us to go to this other place that is in our city and he also told me that there is this song that whenever he hears it, it reminds of him of this time we went to this event in our city together. He said he wants me to hear it this summer when we go again, so I'll have to wait till then to hear it haha. I don't know. . .I think this all seems positive. And then last night he was texting me and was talking about cuddling... .I was reciprocating and then I saw he just backed off and told me he was going to go to bed and said goodnight. *sigh* I'm sorry if I sound all over the place. I'm just trying to process all of this.

[Meili]

Honestly, you don't sound like you're all over the place. You sound like where you should be as you process.

It's so good to hear that the meeting went well!

It may help to remember that intimacy triggers abandonment and/or engulfment fears with some pwBPD. When they start to feel close to someone, they pull away as a protective measure. It takes time for them to feel safe enough not to pull away. So, it may be best not to take it personally.

And, not to put a damper on your good feelings; but, as with bad feelings, it's wise to stay centered. You can still enjoy the good, but don't get carried away with them. Remember that pwBPD feel emotions more intensely than most. This means that the good are extremely good (which is intoxicating to the non), but when something bad happens the extreme good can turn to extreme bad and catch you off guard if you're not paying attention because you're flying high on the good. Enjoy and stay centered. Don't get intoxicated.

You're doing a great job! Keep us updated.

[eleven_11]

That is helpful to remember! I am trying not to take it so personally. So, you're saying to not get caught up in the good feelings because pwBPD can easily switch from good feelings to bad which leave the non feeling confused and hurt? The good feelings he did feel yesterday were real though, right? I am guessing when we got too intimate through text that is when he pulled back. How does one go about communicating effectively in helping them feel comfortable to not pull back? Do I just keep showing him love regardless of if he pulls back? My heart is telling me to shower him with love regardless, because that is what I feel people need the most. To feel loved and appreciated.

[Meili]

So, you're saying to not get caught up in the good feelings because pwBPD can easily switch from good feelings to bad which leave the non feeling confused and hurt?

Essentially, yes. Don't fail to enjoy them and don't waste them waiting for the other shoe to drop, but don't get caught up in them and forget the reality of the situation either.

The good feelings he did feel yesterday were real though, right?

Probably, yes, for both of you.

How does one go about communicating effectively in helping them feel comfortable to not pull back?

By going slow and being consistent. By learning and using the tools make them feel more comfortable and confident that you actually care and won't abandon them.

Do I just keep showing him love regardless of if he pulls back? My heart is telling me to shower him with love regardless, because that is what I feel people need the most. To feel loved and appreciated.

I agree that people need to feel loved and appreciated. This is where radical acceptance of the disorder comes in. You have to accept that their emotions are extremely intense and that too much showering him with love can overwhelm him quickly. Have you ever been in a relationship with someone who was so needy and clingy that you felt smothered? Now, take that feeling and intensify it by 100% (or more). Wouldn't that be completely overwhelming? Wouldn't that make you want to run away? That's basically what you are dealing with here.

Show him love and affection, but don't over do it. Don't be needy, clingy, and smothering. Meet him at his level and where he is comfortable.

[eleven_11]

Again, I just want to thank you for helping me out here. It seems like even with the information I've gathered and the books I am reading, it still does not compare to someone else's experiences and the advice they are able to give. It really helps me understand as I am still confused about a lot of stuff.

By going slow and being consistent. By learning and using the tools make them feel more comfortable and confident that you actually care and won't abandon them.

And what are these tools that help to make them feel more comfortable and confident that you care and won't abandon them? I have tried to research this and I never really find any answers for how to make him feel that I truly am here for him and care about him.

Show him love and affection, but don't over do it. Don't be needy, clingy, and smothering. Meet him at his level and where he is comfortable. Meet him at his level and where he is comfortable.

I agree that being clingy and smothering is never good in any type of relationship. I don't want to or try to be clingy or smothering. Also, meeting him at his level and where he is comfortable is what is confusing me right now. I am not sure what level he is at and where he feels comfortable because he gives off mixed signals. Like the other day where he told me he doesn't want to be in a relationship ever, but then texting me the day after asking to see me. Or last night, for example, where he was very touchy when we saw each other and texting me about cuddling, but then when I texted back and reciprocated, after a few texts back and forth, he cut me off and said "Anyways, I am going to go to bed. Goodnight!" It is just really confusing and I don't know how to meet him at his level because I don't know where that is.

[Meili]

And what are these tools that help to make them feel more comfortable and confident that you care and won't abandon them?

Learning to listening with empathy and validating his feelings will go a long way to making him feel safe and more comfortable. We all like to be validated. It is especially important when your feelings = facts to you. When a pwBPD feels invalidated, it can be make them believe that they are invalid and that the non doesn't want to be with them. Think of it this way:

They have a feeling... .that feeling is who they are... .when we invalidate, we are telling them that they are invalid... .no one wants to be with someone who is invalid, so we will leave them. That would be a scary place to live, wouldn't it?

I am not sure what level he is at and where he feels comfortable because he gives off mixed signals.

The mixed signals are hard and this is where the listening with empathy comes in handy. It's really hard for most nons to understand the intensity of the emotions that a pwBPD feels. The non sees something as small and no big deal; but for the pwBPD, the feelings are far more intense. This leads to what the non sees as an inconsistency. What is true in one moment is no true in the next. There is a lot of truth in that because of the feelings = fact part of all of it. The non just has to learn to accept this as reality.

In the scenario that you conveyed, it sounds like you are looking for consistency in the emotions. That may be a too much to expect at this point in everything. Hopefully, over time, he will find a neutral, safe place and won't dysregulate or become emotionally aroused as easily. You can help with that, but eventually, he'll have to do the work necessary for him to manage his own feelings.

But, back to the scenario, his level changed and you have to be flexible enough to not allow his emotions to dictate your own. He was loving, so you were loving. He backed off, so you back off. If you chase, he'll likely get overwhelmed and run. If you run, he'll fear abandonment and act out. You just need to live your life and let him live his. I know that sounds like a strange way to have a relationship/partnership, but that's what most likely needs to happen in the hear and now. Once things become more stable, you can handle things differently.