She emailed me after 3 months NC

[findinggratitude]

These boards have been instrumental to my detaching process, and I was able to get through the initial "shattered" phase of my breakup with my exBPD thanks to the support here. I also feel I now have greater understanding of the disorder as well as my part keeping a toxic relationship going. I have moved from utter heartbreak and complete confusion to mostly peace.

That said, I was thrown for a loop when my ex sent me a birthday email after having been completely NC since August, when she abruptly and shockingly broke up with me over email (and immediately demanded NC, which was, I think, more cowardice than anything). I did not reply to the breakup email and have not since.

I was shocked to receive the birthday email, and would like to post it here to see if anyone can offer feedback. I am not sure if I should break NC to reply, or what her motivations were. If you are interested and have time, read my very first post here ....it's on page 2 and entitled "What Should I do now" to get some backup info on our breakup and her swift and cruel departure. Thats why this recent email shocked me. She was very firm about not speaking again.

Anyway, here it is:

Hey (my name). I hope you have been living that beautiful life of yours to the fullest. I just wanted to reach out to tell you I'm thinking about you and wish you a happy birthday. I just hope with all the strength in my heart that you are able to find joy and peace today. And every day.


WHAT? This is from someone who told me "I need this relationship to be done. My heart is completely out of it" (mere hours after telling me she loved me, etc). Obviously, she likes to refer to her heart in all her emails  :)ha. But I am at a loss, and must admit I did have a mild panic response to hearing from her. I feel like breaking NC would probably be a bad idea, but I also feel like just writing "Thanks. I'm great." might put a stop to her obviously thinking she has somehow some sort of jurisdiction over my "peace and joy". But maybe that's getting entangled again. I guess it feels like NC is punishing her at this point, and my intent is not punitive, but to get away from the madness (not to mention she demanded it and I'm not going into thjat quagmire). Phew. As you can see I'm all discombobulated. Any thoughts or advice?

[kells76]

That sounds totally surprising and unexpected to get that email; it's no wonder you're feeling worked up and at a loss. And on your birthday, too...

Sometimes discussion of "NC" (no contact) gets... funky. It gets talked about like "she did NC to me", or "I was NC for a week, then reached out, then went back to NC", or "should I try NC to get him to want me back", etc (not saying you're doing any of that, more sharing examples of how it gets referred to).

It might be helpful to get clarity on your goals.

"No contact" isn't a final destination or a "once you go NC, you can never change it again" thing.

It's a tool for achieving other goals.

Sometimes in the detachment process, we need space to heal, get back to a baseline, get our heads on straight, turn down the temperature of the conflicts. We may struggle with learning and using more skillful interpersonal tools and approaches, so deciding for ourselves "I plan not to be in touch with this person for the time being" can buy us space and time to work on ourselves and become more effective.

Others may choose to be out of contact with us; that's not something we control.

We are 100% in control of if or when we reply to others that reach out to us. They aren't breaking NC by reaching out to us, because we have a choice about responding or not (again, not saying that's your perspective! more illustrating more facets of "NC").

So --

it does sound like you are done with the relationship and aren't interested in reconnecting with her. Is that accurate?

What would your goal be in replying to the email? What would your goal be in not replying to the email?

Let's take this out of the realm of the "NC" label for a minute, and see if we can get clarity about what you want and how to get there (whatever the path/tool/approach would be called) 

[findinggratitude]

Wow, thanks kells76, this was a really helpful response because it was so clear and helped me a lot with this whole NC thing which seems so, I don't know, intense, or drastic, or dramatic. I think, honestly, it's a lot to do with the name of it "no contact!" which seems like we're talking about something poisonous, which, yes, there's a whiff of truth to that, but I also like to think I have the sensitivity and broad-mindedness to remember that I am speaking about a person-a sick person, yes, a person who DEEPLY hurt me, yes-but a person. I, too, like to believe that I can control my responses and behaviors in a way that shows grace and a level of unflappability that I believe I have achieved at this point.

I am really trying to reflect upon what it would do for me (or to me) to respond at this point. I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that NC is a tool, and I have used it for all the reasons you mentioned, along with the fact that even though SHE insisted upon it, I knew that if I responded to her break-up email it would just cause even more chaotic communication and it was so clear that she was deeply dysregulated and confused at that point, nothing she said would really mean anything, but it WOULD impact me emotionally regardless.

So, I do feel that I have my head on straight enough and am back to my usual baseline of how I react in general, and most importantly that she can't get to me like she did before. I was SO crushed initially, but interestingly, the level of cruelty and the swift cut-off helped me to see that this was really about her...as far as the tactics. And that she is someone who honestly cant manage her emotions or her behavior so much of the time. As a result, a lot of the power she had over me and my inner life dissipated once I had a break from her chaos and what I am left with now is mostly pity.

I am absolutely not interested in continuing or re-upping a relationship with her. There is nothing she could say or do that would change that. So, I don't feel in danger in replying, minus potentially opening a door to her starting a big mess of emotional communication (this last email was very guarded and brief. She is quite prolific and extremely lengthy in her emails when she feels like it, and incredibly "all over the place"). I'm not sure I'm in the mood for that, because it would put me in a position, once again, of what feels like somehow managing it...

That said, I do hate the lack of closure. I don't think I would have an actual "closure" conversation; I am certain she's not capable of that...she's just a very messy person, and I don't mean that cruelly. Even if she attempted, she would just do a huge emotional blaming (both me and herself) word chaos all over the place. I used to tell her she communicated in the form of "throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks" in a joking way. But now I see how serious it is, and how fleeting but intensely varied her emotions are. I think what I would be hoping for in responding most importantly is a demonstration of my own character. By that I mean that I don't engage in a dramatic cut-off, or silent treatment, or running away. I feel like to respond with a level of graciousness and calm might make ME feel more grounded, but it would have to be in a way in which I wasn't looking for any answers or an apology or, really, anything from her. Which, honestly, I am not.

I think the fact I cant figure out her intent is part of the issue. I can't discern if she's calm and just honestly is so disordered she doesn't realize the extreme damage she did to me and my life, and so feels that email was just a nice gesture. I suspect that may be the case. And if so, then I would respond with a "Thank you and be well." But if she's got some kind of storm going on in her head and this just a very very controlled entree back into my life, then it would be best for us BOTH if I stay silent.

Hmmmm

[kells76]

Hmmm is right -- lots to think about.

I wonder if sitting on it for a few days could also bring you some more clarity. It doesn't sound like an emergency or logistical communication, so unless I'm missing something, there's not some "deadline" for your response (if any).

Maybe it could help to examine if your feelings (not her motivations) are driving a sense of urgency, or desire to respond?

That said, I do hate the lack of closure. I don't think I would have an actual "closure" conversation; I am certain she's not capable of that...she's just a very messy person, and I don't mean that cruelly. Even if she attempted, she would just do a huge emotional blaming (both me and herself) word chaos all over the place. I used to tell her she communicated in the form of "throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks" in a joking way. But now I see how serious it is, and how fleeting but intensely varied her emotions are. I think what I would be hoping for in responding most importantly is a demonstration of my own character. By that I mean that I don't engage in a dramatic cut-off, or silent treatment, or running away. I feel like to respond with a level of graciousness and calm might make ME feel more grounded, but it would have to be in a way in which I wasn't looking for any answers or an apology or, really, anything from her. Which, honestly, I am not.

Can you create and give to yourself the closure that she cannot?

I think the fact I cant figure out her intent is part of the issue. I can't discern if she's calm and just honestly is so disordered she doesn't realize the extreme damage she did to me and my life, and so feels that email was just a nice gesture. I suspect that may be the case. And if so, then I would respond with a "Thank you and be well." But if she's got some kind of storm going on in her head and this just a very very controlled entree back into my life, then it would be best for us BOTH if I stay silent.

That is difficult, and can attract our focus and attention in an almost-magnetic way. I get it -- my H's kids' mom (uBPD) and stepdad (uNPD) don't tell us anything about what's going on with the kids at their home... and it's not a good situation there. I find myself hyperfocusing on and "zooming in on" small details because part of me wants to make sense of what's happening and to know the lay of the land -- like, what are we in for, what giant shoe is waiting to drop.

I also have to work on understanding what that ruminating about "her motivations" does for me. Because it is doing something for me. I'm getting something out of mentally cranking on "what did it mean that she answered the door, what did it mean that he gave me that thing from his work, what does it mean that the kids hinted at a recurring problem".

For me, I think I can feel like I'm in control of an out of control, chaotic, and unpredictable situation. And in a way, I'm in a similar position as you -- there's absolutely no chance that I will ever be in a romantic relationship with the kids' mom or stepdad! Yet their motivations draw my attention and rumination.

So -- what are you getting out of spending time wondering about your ex's motivations? What's that doing for you?

[findinggratitude]

Kells, thanks again for helping me sort out my feelings and intentions. I agree that there's no urgency, so I want to take the time to make sure I'm making a choice wrought from thoughtfulness and intentionality, rather than anything reactive and sudden.

I would say it IS my feelings that are motivating me to respond. But theyre confusing. It has taken Herculean strength thus far not to write her. The break-up email of months ago was heartbreaking and so baffling, full of "I will always love you's" but also "I need this relationship to be over" and she put me in a precarious financial and living situation at the time as we were planning on leaving for a 3 month trip around Europe 4 days after I received the email and so I had sublet my place, arranged my work accordingly, etc. It was truly something that took my breath away when it happened and damaged every aspect of my life. So, I am proud of myself for simply walking away when she said she "would have to go NC for a few years." Again, I think she said that more out of fear of having to face what she did, and talk to me about it, but I took her at her word and disappeared.

However, my disappearance definitely has tones of "well, you asked for this, so I am doing it." energy within myself. Because she suggested she couldn't trust me , "You deserve to be with someone who trusts you wholeheartedly and unfortunately, that's not me." which was an ongoing and chronic situation with her to the point I felt held hostage and under surveillance constantly, and where every question felt like bait or an accusation, it feels like saying anything to her is moot. But, I also think that comment on her part was a whiff of introspection...still full of blame, not actually acknowledging that the problem lies within her, but there's an element of knowing nonetheless.

Anyway, my desire to respond, I think, comes from wanting to prove I am NOT the person she created...someone not to trust or someone who didn't have good intentions. It's an effort to demonstrate that I am good in some way, and that her assessment of me is wrong (which I think on some level she knows...she sort of dips in and out of awareness about her own issues, but always returns to making me the "bad guy"). I recognize that my motivation is dicey, and fraught with potential landmines if I do respond. I have learned enough from being with her and reading here to recognize her reaction or integration of what I say will always land back to her default which is that I can't be trusted and am somehow going to hurt her, even though she devastated so many aspects of my life and self. I am very aware she did that out of fear, but it doesn't take away from the consequences of her actions. But in responding I am proving to MYSELF that I can be centered and reasonable, but I would be lying if there wasn't an element of wanting to do the opposite of what she did. Take the higher or more honorable road by giving her the grace of a reply. It still shocks me after what she did that within this recent email there was no apology of any kind, but I think she believes what she did had to happen and cannot access empathy under the pouring rain of her own emotional life...she's too busy just getting drenched all the time. While her actions were brutal, I know her intent wasn't. It's hard to explain.

This really resonated with me For me, I think I can feel like I'm in control of an out of control, chaotic, and unpredictable situation. . There is definitely an aspect of me wanting to "contain" the situation in some way. There always has been. I used to tell her she needed "containment" and this may be something I am still subconsciously trying to do...and there's absolutely an element of, I think fear is the word, in my not responding. In that she no doubt sees she was very generous in reaching out, and my staying silent makes me nervous about inciting something more in the future....some reaction or new email that is more, shall we say...forceful. She was never really combattive, definitely quiet, but full of extreme emotions and tears and accusations that were so off it was shocking...but always coming from a place of suspicion and pain on her part rather than rage.

So, I think I have worked out that writing her back seems to be motivated by an effort to create a dam against what could come next , along with an attempt to right her concept of me as some sort of terrible person who needed to be cut off and avoided at all costs (but yet, she contacted me)....yet knowing altering who she somehow fabricated I am is likely impossible....so it's more just making the action to the contrary in spite of that, to show myself I am not some kind of cruel person. Were she any other ex, I would respond immediately. In fact, I heard from two other ex's on my birthday and did not hesitate to thank them for the well-wishes and felt none of the shiver of "danger!" like I did with her email. Finally, she sent it at midnight the night of my birthday, which is an interesting time and, to me, betrays the controlled content of the email. She was planning it and thinking more than the note lets on. I know the way she works. But see? Now I'm back to thinking of HER rather than me.

Getting some clarity here, but still in the mud . I also recognize that thinking this much about it is just plain bizarre in itself! It shows the unhealthiness of it all

[findinggratitude]

Ooh, I forgot to respond to this

what are you getting out of spending time wondering about your ex's motivations? What's that doing for you?


I need to think on it more, but there's absolutely something I am getting out of the ruminating, and I love that you brought that to my attention. If I dig deep I would probably have to admit that theres an element of hoping theres a hint of her escaping the trenches of the disorder and seeing me as a decent person again. That she sent this as her way of apologizing and recognizing that (that is how she communicates, everthing is convoluted and not quite clear, expansive but empty, etc). There's definitely part of me that's trying to takw the disorder out of the equation and turn this into a normal breakup in some way. I am, at least, grateful that's my motivation, whena few months ago it would have been hope that this was an effort to rekindle! It's such a mess, no?

[once removed]

I think the fact I cant figure out her intent is part of the issue.

she probably doesnt like how things ended, either. and more than likely, some (hard to measure) of that "ice" has thawed.

that is usually what motivates a person (anyone) to reach out a few months down the road.

it is hard to discern what motivates another person, and they may not even know themselves, but usually, its some version of seeking a different form of resolution, and feeling better about it. "im okay, youre okay".

with bpd traits in the mix, shame can be a factor, so the relatively ordinary sense of regret over how things went down, and a desire to be seen as "good" in your eyes, can also be a motivator.

i never heard directly from my ex. on two separate occasions, she sent me a friend request on facebook, only to cancel them hours later. i came to believe she wasnt comfortable with how things ended between us, believed that i probably hated her, and that the way she went about it offered a plausible deniability that made her less vulnerable if i either ignored her, or let her have it. people do this stuff all the time, bpd or not; its human nature.

a birthday wish is a pretty easy, low risk "in". it doesnt require much vulnerability, it feels good, and who is gonna tear into someone telling them happy birthday?

I feel like breaking NC would probably be a bad idea, but I also feel like just writing "Thanks. I'm great." might put a stop to her obviously thinking she has somehow some sort of jurisdiction over my "peace and joy". But maybe that's getting entangled again. I guess it feels like NC is punishing her at this point, and my intent is not punitive, but to get away from the madness (not to mention she demanded it and I'm not going into thjat quagmire). Phew. As you can see I'm all discombobulated. Any thoughts or advice?

Kells is right to not only examine, but to focus on your own motivations, and let your values govern your actions (or lack-there-of).

it seems like youre uncomfortable with the idea of not responding. i would be, too.

at the same time, lots of different things are, understandably, motivating you to either respond or to not respond.

might put a stop to her obviously thinking she has somehow some sort of jurisdiction over my "peace and joy". But maybe that's getting entangled again.

yes. responding to "send a message" is attached thinking. not responding to "send a message" is attached thinking.

my desire to respond, I think, comes from wanting to prove I am NOT the person she created...someone not to trust or someone who didn't have good intentions. It's an effort to demonstrate that I am good in some way, and that her assessment of me is wrong (which I think on some level she knows...she sort of dips in and out of awareness about her own issues, but always returns to making me the "bad guy"). I recognize that my motivation is dicey, and fraught with potential landmines if I do respond.

i think you have a pretty good handle on, and access to, your feelings and motivations. that will go a long way, whatever you do.

when things like these happen, its a good idea to look at them as a marker for where you are in detaching. i dont like to use the word "normal" a lot, but i think that how youre feeling, 3 months after a bad breakup, then receiving this message, is a pretty ordinary response. it would unsettle me in the same way. at the same time, youll notice that with just a day or two, youre back to baseline.

so, heed that. it is absolutely appropriate to sit on for some time before deciding. and if you do respond, you want to feel good about, and confident in, what youre saying, and that becomes easier when we are operating at baseline.

be advised though, in terms of gaming things out, it is entirely possible that she wont say anything further - that there wont be anything further to say. it may end up being an anti-climatic sort of thing.

[Daylight70]

Anyway, my desire to respond, I think, comes from wanting to prove I am NOT the person she created...someone not to trust or someone who didn't have good intentions. It's an effort to demonstrate that I am good in some way, and that her assessment of me is wrong (which I think on some level she knows...she sort of dips in and out of awareness about her own issues, but always returns to making me the "bad guy").

Speaking from my own experience, my ex-pwBPD trained me to always be trying to prove myself to be the good person. The constant false accusations which then turned into rage at me, left me always feeling like I have to prove who I really am; that I'm not the bad person she accused me of constantly.

So I wonder if your desire to respond is tied to similar motivations? That you feel she probably still looks upon you as a bad person, and you feel the need to fix that, as part of closure?

However, in my experience, trying to prove that I'm not that bad guy never worked. I was always fighting against a very rigid, negative narrative that was impermeable to truth, facts, evidence, and discussion. So my instinct would be to be cautious there, in case what lies ahead is just more frustration, without that resolution you're looking for. A pwBPD can always turn your efforts to prove yourself against you, and find "new evidence" of you being the bad person.

[CC43]

Hi there Gratitude,

I can sense that you're still torn by your past relationship and the brusque way your ex broke up with you.  I'm probably a different generation than you, but I can't help but think that a break-up by email is harsh, especially if your relationship was a serious one.  It may be that your ex couldn't bring herself to communicate in person, or maybe she was being impulsive--both might be manifestations of your ex's BPD.

My mom recently went through a similar situation with her long-estranged sister.  After years of no contact from her, and after being a no-show at my dad's funeral a few months ago, my mom's sister suddenly reached out to my mom with an emotionally charged email.  I don't know if my aunt has BPD--she disappeared from our lives after a bizarre incident decades ago.  At that time, she became terribly insulted by my little brother, who during a family visit dared to wear a sweatshirt emblazoned with the logo of a high-ranking college where he was recently accepted.  His middle-aged aunt apparently became insulted by seeing her nephew wearing the college sweatshirt and witnessing his excitement about attending college.  The whole scenario seemed absolutely bizarre to me.  I didn't fully understand her behavior at the time--I chalked it up to her being selfish and batty, and I was already familiar with her that incredible ability to hold onto minor grudges forever.  Now that I know about BPD, I strongly suspect she has many BPD traits.  Anyway, like you, my mom was distressed by the sudden email from her sister.  Basically, she didn't want to let her sister back into her life again, because she was so tricky to handle and emotionally abusive.  At the same time, my mom is a very nice woman, and she didn't want her response to seem offensive, especially as her sister has always been so "sensitive."  My advice to my mom was, it's OK not to let her back in your life now.  Your sister was the one who ignored you all these years--she didn't attend any family weddings or funerals, by the way.  It's OK to still feel hurt by that, but you probably don't want to be reminded it of every day, and you don't want to deal with all her drama and baggage, right?  Especially not now, as you had come to peace with the estrangement?  I know you want to respond, so that you're not seen to be rude.  My advice would be to answer as you would an acquaintance or a business colleague.  In other words, be nice, but not emotional.  You could say, "Thanks for thinking of me!" or "Thanks for your well wishes," or something along those lines.  If you're young, you might respond with an emoji, as seems to be the norm.

If you want to keep your distance and not rile up your ex, you might try to remember not to JADE, which stands for Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain.  In my humble opinion, in this particular situation, it's probably best not to Explain too much, or Justify why or when you respond, if at all.

Just my two cents.  All my best to you.

[findinggratitude]

I am constantly so grateful and endeared by the thoughtfulness and care in the thorough replies people generate to each other here. Thanks everyone.

Once removed: Be advised though, in terms of gaming things out, it is entirely possible that she wont say anything further - that there wont be anything further to say. it may end up being an anti-climatic sort of thing.


This is what I HOPE would happen IF I reply. And like you said, I have been able to use this as a marker for where I am in the detachment process, and am pleased with how detached I am at this point. Apart from the initial burst of "Yikes!" and then a minute of "I can't BELIEVE she had the guts to contact me after how she left things!" I very quickly calmed down and have remained pretty okay. I think your advice on waiting a bit more is probably sound though. This has mostly to do with my discomfort about ignoring her-I just don't operate that way with anyone. But I have to admit, as Daylight70 suggested, I am fully aware that part of this is me wanting to appear "good" (while at the same time it's within the realm my authentic self with anyone else to just write back; I wouldn't even think of not doing so normally).

Daylight70 I was always fighting against a very rigid, negative narrative that was impermeable to truth, facts, evidence, and discussion.

This! That was my life for a few years right there, and the rigidity especially, and yo-yo ing right back to the negative no matter how confronted with evidence she was, and how many boundaries, and, in hindsight, crazy things I did to "prove" myself. Hence, I don't want a response to be me mostly motivated by that. But I am also aware I am guaranteed to fail (though, I think given the fact she reached out at all, she has softened some in her thinking of me, but at the same time, now that I've already waited a day to respond, and likely will wait some more, she's probably shifting back to thinking I'm a "bad person").

CC43-Thank you! I agree! I was thinking about something like "Everything is okay. Please take care of yourself."

That kind of lets her off the hook if guilt and shame are in the mix, keeps her removed from my internal life period, and is kind of direct as far as saying goodbye in a sense?

[Daylight70]

findinggratitude said:

I was thinking about something like "Everything is okay. Please take care of yourself."

That kind of lets her off the hook if guilt and shame are in the mix, keeps her removed from my internal life period, and is kind of direct as far as saying goodbye in a sense?

Yes, that strikes a good balance to me too. Polite, friendly, but sufficiently "grey rock" to show you're not taking any bait to be drawn back.

[once removed]

I am fully aware that part of this is me wanting to appear "good" (while at the same time it's within the realm my authentic self with anyone else to just write back; I wouldn't even think of not doing so normally).

no human being is differentiated enough that they can (or necessarily even should) completely divorce themselves of motives like that - the stuff that makes us tick - or the motives of others, for that matter.

the trick is to have the self awareness of them, and, ultimately, to let your values guide you.

This is what I HOPE would happen IF I reply.

if thats the case, its relatively simple. just something short and polite, like you would anyone else.

"Everything is okay. Please take care of yourself."

this comes off, to me, as a tad cold/distant. even a "thank you" preceding it, or "I hope you are doing well" instead of "please take care of yourself" adds a touch of warmth, but isnt anything more than youd send anyone else.

[findinggratitude]

I'm going to sit on this a little more and go with what once removed said: to let your values guide you.


I very much appreciate everyone piping in and being so supportive and note just leaning into "NOOOO, Stick to NC NO MATTER WHAT!" which sometimes just feels so "off" to me. I'm not saying I will necessarily reply; I may need more time and I do have apprehensions about cracking a seal that will release an emotional gush on her end that I may not be ready to handle. Not because I would want any sort of rekindle (and not that she does, necessarily) but more that I could see myself stepping back a bit as far as my own confidence in my knowledge that I am a decent and compassionate person, should she suggest otherwise. That abrupt departure really really shook me.

Oh! And the reason I was thinking of writing "take care of yourself" is because I don't want to put any "I" in there whatsoever. No "I think" or "I wish" or "I hope." But maybe I could warm it up some other way. Same with no "thank YOU". I want no "you" or "I" in there. Literally NO room for twisting things without those words I think. Or far diminished. So maybe "Take good care. The kind words are appreciated." Something like that

[ForeverDad]

That said, I do hate the lack of closure. I don't think I would have an actual "closure" conversation; I am certain she's not capable of that...she's just a very messy person, and I don't mean that cruelly. Even if she attempted, she would just do a huge emotional blaming (both me and herself) word chaos all over the place.

In past posts I've often commented that our dysfunctional but ended relationships don't have much closure.  Typically we have to Gift ourselves a measure of Closure.

Birthdays and holidays do have an emotional impact.  Those are often triggers for people with BPD traits.

If you don't reply, that fine.

If you do reply, be aware that you know nothing of your ex's current relationships or life.  This card may mean little, or maybe more.  For all you know, using a stovetop analogy, she may have emotionally put you to simmer on the back burner, just in case her next relationship should get rocky.   After all, do you want to restart a relationship that almost surely would cycle up and down until it ended yet again?

[findinggratitude]

ForeverDad: If you don't reply, that fine.

This is helpful, too. I need to be reminded to do what's best for me. And I absolutely do not want to get sucked back into any relationship, not even a friendship. More along the lines of the "I'm okay, you're okay" vibe once removed mentioned. Just a one line response and then done. With the understanding that those types of interactions may occur every once in awhile, which would be fine. I feel like I could temper them accordingly.

But for now, I'm waiting. I think the fact I'm even thinking about it this much means I should hold off.

[HoratioX]

I'm going to take a different position, which is that's she testing the waters to see if she still has any control over you. She's hoping to manipulate you.

Let's break that message down:

Hey (my name). The casual familiarity here is all wrong. She broke up with you abruptly and went no contact and the language -- even if this is how you interacted before -- shows zero regard for that and your feelings. It's designed to disarm you into slipping back into old familiar patterns like you're still in a relationship.

I hope you have been living that beautiful life of yours to the fullest. No she doesn't. What she is doing is fishing to see if you are happy and have moved on, and if not, reminding you of what you're missing. She's also dropping key words like "beautiful" and "fullest" to pique your interest in her subliminally and plant the seeds for more persuasion -- you remember how beautiful she is, how full and happy your life was with her, etc.

I just wanted to reach out to tell you I'm thinking about you and wish you a happy birthday. Again with the coded language -- "reach out to you." You know, hug, touch, embrace. All physical things to remind you of being with her and thinking that after three months, you probably miss the physical parts and are vulnerable. She could simply have said, "I just wanted to wish you happy birthday."

I just hope with all the strength in my heart that you are able to find joy and peace today. All the strength in her heart? What kind of nonsense is that? She's using coded language again -- heart for love, etc. -- and dangling herself in front of you to see how you react. What's she's hoping is you're still attracted to her and want her and will reply in kind -- all to make her feel good, not you. If she wanted you to "find joy and peace today," it wouldn't be with a manipulative message like this one. In fact, she might have waited until another day so she didn't risk ruining your birthday.

And every day. Yeah, nothing manipulative there. I'm rolling my eyes. It's like the repetitive tagline in a bad commercial.

Look, here's how you message someone whose heart you stomped on by abruptly breaking up with them and going NC for months:

Hi, --------. I just wanted to wish you a happy birthday. I know I have no right to say it after how I behaved, but please forgive me for that. You deserve better. Maybe we can talk about it more if you'd like. If not, I understand.

Yes, this also has manipulative aspects, but it lays the cards on the table if she's really interested in making amends. It's not trying to push your buttons and leaves things up to you without all the clumsy attempts at subliminal word dropping to get you worked up. It sounds humble and caring rather than casual and flirty.

You know her better than I do, but her calculated message makes me cringe.

[findinggratitude]

Horatiox

THANK YOU for being chafed by that "hey" as the opener. It really irritated me too! She also used that in her breakup email! So disconnected with "what's coming next", right? When I was in my full rumination phase over the breakup letter it was that "hey" that I returned to more than anything because of the lack or respect and causal tone and sort of "throwawayness" of it. And she did not use "hey" all the time, so it's not like it's just her "standard" opener. I am so glad you caught that, and it's honestly, more than all the other things you analyzed (and believe me, I've done the same thing picking this apart from the "manipulation" angle) what chafes me the most.

I really appreciate your response. I have to say there is so so much I agree with especially "clumsy attempts at subliminal word dropping." But that's also her "style" all the time, messy and over-the -top and vague and sweeping all in one.

What would you do? I will say when I first read it, I thought. "Oh no no. You need to do better than this. If I receive something with more specificity and grace and humility I might ." I'm not sure she's capable of that though. Again, it's still hard for me to discern if I want to just stop this very weird feeling of being "silent" which does go against my values in a way that's uncomfortable, or if I should just let it all go entirely.

[once removed]

if her one line birthday wish is an attempt to manipulate you, its not clear to what end.

i dont think its realistic to expect someone to throw themselves on the altar and atone for their breakup sins in this sort of message  . if anything, that would have made it all about her, and wed be picking apart whether she adequately validated your pain.

if you are chafed by "hey", it may be an indicator that there are still, understandably, a lot of hurt feelings.

question:

whether her birthday wish is full of manipulative land mines, or an innocuous birthday wish from an ex (that stirred up a lot of feelings), would it make a difference in how you respond?

[Under The Bridge]

After all, do you want to restart a relationship that almost surely would cycle up and down until it ended yet again?

This would be the first thing I would think of if I was contacted by a BPD ex after 3 months. A 'charming' attempt or, as has been said, a test message to see if you're still available either as the main player again or as a substitute waiting on the bench for a chance to re-enter the game.  BPD relationships make us cynical.

Perhaps her life has been lonely since the breakup or maybe she's had dates and was rejected by astute guys who spotted the red flags. Maybe she's fallen out with her current partner and is looking for a gap-filler, someone she already knows. There are many possible reasons for her contacting you and her message is innocently-worded so is revealing nothing tangible.

I think that when it comes to charming, this is one of the few times BPD sufferers know exactly what they're doing and aren't just running on emotions. In your first post you said that you'd 'moved from utter heartbreak and complete confusion to mostly peace'.  That's a big step and well done to you for achieving it.  You see now that life does go on after a BPD relationship so the question is are you prepared to risk it all by being drawn back into the drama and conflict which will most likely drop back into the same breakup cycle as before?

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[findinggratitude]

whether her birthday wish is full of manipulative land mines, or an innocuous birthday wish from an ex (that stirred up a lot of feelings), would it make a difference in how you respond?


Ive been thinking about this a lot, and the answer is no. If I do respond it will be in the manner we all discussed (thanks again everyone) a few posts prior to this one. I don't really care all that much what her intent was, or whether she's being intentionally manipulative (I actually dont think there's a whole lot of intent behind it....she's "naturally" manipulative....and I'm not saying that meanly, it's literally just the way she is and communicates. I don't think there's a whole lot of awareness behind it minus a lot of subconscious self protection, and a highly charged inner emotional life that comes out in grand statements. It ultimately doesnt really matter. And I do agree that no matter what she wrote it could be interpreted a million ways. Had she written. "Just wanted to send a Happy Birthday and let you know I am sorry for the way I handled the breakup" that would probably be my "ideal" message. But again, does it really matter?

[findinggratitude]

BPD relationships make us cynical.

And this right here is what I'm trying to avoid. Again, I don't think this is a "charm" attempt, in fact, I think it may be egotistical to believe that given what she wrote. It truly may be, in her own convoluted way, just an olive branch and an opportunity for me to say "Thanks and goodbye" which would give me the closure I seem to want, or the one thing I find I'm still unresolved about. Fortunately I am NOT unresolved about actually WANTING closure, it's just whether or not this would be achievable.

[HoratioX]

Horatiox

THANK YOU for being chafed by that "hey" as the opener. It really irritated me too! She also used that in her breakup email! So disconnected with "what's coming next", right? When I was in my full rumination phase over the breakup letter it was that "hey" that I returned to more than anything because of the lack or respect and causal tone and sort of "throwawayness" of it. And she did not use "hey" all the time, so it's not like it's just her "standard" opener. I am so glad you caught that, and it's honestly, more than all the other things you analyzed (and believe me, I've done the same thing picking this apart from the "manipulation" angle) what chafes me the most.

I really appreciate your response. I have to say there is so so much I agree with especially "clumsy attempts at subliminal word dropping." But that's also her "style" all the time, messy and over-the -top and vague and sweeping all in one.

What would you do? I will say when I first read it, I thought. "Oh no no. You need to do better than this. If I receive something with more specificity and grace and humility I might ." I'm not sure she's capable of that though. Again, it's still hard for me to discern if I want to just stop this very weird feeling of being "silent" which does go against my values in a way that's uncomfortable, or if I should just let it all go entirely.

No problem. She's being manipulative. Pure and simple. If she'd sent that to me, I wouldn't respond at all. Just let the silence be the response.

Here's the situation: If she sincerely cares about you, she'll find a better, more appropriate way to approach you. She'll come to you with honesty and sincerity. She'll respect you and your feelings, as well as your boundaries.

If doesn't sincerely care about you, she'll do everything for herself, not you. She'll start with trying to manipulate you when she feels down about herself for whatever reason. Getting an emotional response out of you will make her feel better and stronger. She will do this until she gets her fill or her illness takes over or both. Then she'll grow tired of you (again).

If you fear that somehow she will be hurt or insulted by silence, you're giving her way too much consideration. This is someone who abruptly ended your relationship and shut the door on your for three months. They're not that fragile, and if they are, can hardly expect others to be sympathetic.

You need to be stronger, which means not look for ways to rationalize her behavior so she comes across as sympathetic and the victim and you feel guilty for not being nicer to her or whatever.  She is a victim in the sense she has a profound mental illness -- but that explains, not excuses, her mistreating other people. If you keep rationalizing everything, you will simply leave yourself vulnerable, and then when she mistreats you -- and she very likely will -- you will mostly have yourself to blame.

On the other hand, if you protect yourself now by not letting her manipulate you, you may well avoid even worse problems down the road. And remember -- she's an adult, too. She can take ownership of her behavior and work, hopefully with a therapist, to improve.

Now, that said, I'm not a therapist. A professional may have a completely different point of view, and maybe that's the person to listen to. I'm only expressing how I'd handle things, and I can say that my ex with anxiety/C-PTSD/borderline tried something similar with me and I treated it very much as I suggest here. We're no longer together, and I'm fine with that. When you get two or three times as many problems and emotional injuries as you do joys and satisfactions, it's time to get out.

[findinggratitude]

Wow. This short little email from her has definitely provided me the opportunity to deep dive my own motivations and feelings, and everyone's responses have been very helpful and pretty much all of them have reinforced my various shifts in thinking over different times as I have processed it over the past week. Her note (or my birthday ha) came at an opportune time when I was (thankfully) ready for it, in the sense I am able to pause and calmly work out the tangles in my own feelings. And I realize I can take as much time as I want to decide if I ever do reply, and that as the days pass it seems less, I guess, necessary, to do so.

Horatiox, you have been very helpful in keeping me from entirely entering the realm of "giving her grace" and forgiveness because of the illness. That is where I "want" to go because it's "easier" for me in a sense. I don't naturally hold onto anger or grudges and always like to "work things out" (which is, of course, why I am a GREAT candidate for getting into a mess with a person with BPD. It took me ages to see the forest through the trees, my drive was always to "fix" our issues, while always thinking to myself that we didn't really HAVE them, not the ones she was bringing up, that were always fabrications wrought from her paranoia and accusations of my own behavior, and surveillance and control, and just a lot of me giving up my autonomy in order to calm the beast.

I recognize that right now, some of my desire to respond is to continue that "calming of the beast". Because I KNOW this email from her was not just casually written. She is an extreme ruminator and thinks about things until she makes sheer chaos out of them because her feelings are so cluttered and "off". So, while her motivation is, yes, irrelevant, I do know there was a motivation that extends beyond just an innocent happy birthday. And I think the fact she hasn't written since is telling. If she was willing to disappear entirely for 3 months, and in the manner she did (extreme cut-and-bait and running away and demanding NC, which clearly indicates not wanting to face the consequences of what she did) I believe this email was likely motivated by a degree of shame, perhaps looking for forgiveness or assurance that I am okay, but, as always, an unwillingness to directly state or ask those things. Therefore, I find myself already in an element of that mud I was ALWAYS in throughout the relationship, of trying to make sense of how to reply, because it's confusing to know what I am actually replying TO.

And here's the thing. I don't really forgive her. I accept it. And I understand why. And I am not holding onto it anymore. But I don't want to have even a whisper of that "style" of relating in my life anymore. And this potentially innocuous email still retains that "style".

I recognize too that I have some fear of both not responding and responding. So, until that is not the case, it's better not to respond, I think. Because I can see that responding is something I would do, to, again, "tame the beast" once again.

And I do agree with Horatiox that If she sincerely cares about you, she'll find a better, more appropriate way to approach you. She is rarely completely "appropriate" in her contact, never was, and was generally "too much" one way or another, but this feels sort of "off" in the sense that there's an element of "searching" in her tone, because of the lack of directness. If she overly said she was searching for something-closure, forgiveness, reassurance I'm okay, ANYTHING, I would be having an easier time with this.

[findinggratitude]

If you fear that somehow she will be hurt or insulted by silence, you're giving her way too much consideration

This, right here, is my sticking point. I am struggling with being hurtful, to anyone. But there's also some fear in not responding. If nothing else, it's precisely because I know how chaotic her inner life is. This is someone who could not stop texting at the beginning. We're talking 20:1 text ration between she and I, and it stressed me out right from the beginning. She could not control herself, I could see it, and it made me nervous. So, now to have this control to parse out a rare engagement is destabilizing. She would, in the past, have sent probably 10 emails after that first one if I didn't reply, so I know her not writing again is taking some effort or has a motivation behind it. And for some reason that's scary to me. It's weird to me that fear is the emotion I keep returning to more than any other.

I appreciate everyone continuing to read all this. I do recognize it's all a bit much over a birthday email, for heaven's sake

[SnailShell]

If you fear that somehow she will be hurt or insulted by silence, you're giving her way too much consideration

This, right here, is my sticking point. I am struggling with being hurtful, to anyone. But there's also some fear in not responding. If nothing else, it's precisely because I know how chaotic her inner life is. This is someone who could not stop texting at the beginning. We're talking 20:1 text ration between she and I, and it stressed me out right from the beginning. She could not control herself, I could see it, and it made me nervous. So, now to have this control to parse out a rare engagement is destabilizing. She would, in the past, have sent probably 10 emails after that first one if I didn't reply, so I know her not writing again is taking some effort or has a motivation behind it. And for some reason that's scary to me. It's weird to me that fear is the emotion I keep returning to more than any other.

I appreciate everyone continuing to read all this. I do recognize it's all a bit much over a birthday email, for heaven's sake

One question I often asked myself is "How much do I want to be appealing to someone who I have to jump through so many hoops for?"

I realised that most of us are able to bear with other people letting us down in all kinds of micro ways.

No one is our God, and we are no one's God.

We're all human, and we all act as such.

I'd like to be with a girl who I can disappoint some times, knowing that she won't leave.

Because she'll disappoint me too sometimes.

The "I HAVE to get this EXACTLY right" feeling, is exactly the feeling which indicates a problem.

You can only do your honest best.

If it goes well from there, good.

If it fails from there, she's a poor fit/too unwell for a sustained relationship.

And then it's better not to have the grief.

[try2heal]

Speaking from my own experience, my ex-pwBPD trained me to always be trying to prove myself to be the good person. The constant false accusations which then turned into rage at me, left me always feeling like I have to prove who I really am; that I'm not the bad person she accused me of constantly.

WOW! This!

[findinggratitude]

No one is our God, and we are no one's God.

This is great. And you know what? I think it's easy to forget that because we were treated in an almost godlike way at first (it felt like a worshipping of sorts, and she literally told me point-blank I could do NO wrong). Well, of course, that's impossible, and I would tell her I felt too admired, that she would not always feel that way, etc. And later, when the demands and constant suspicions and just feeling like whatever I did wasn't quite "enough" or gave her enough reassurance and a feeling of safety, I actually said, "I cannot die on the alter of this relationship." So, the sort of religious intonations are intense for sure (religious isn't quite the right word).

BUT, I like this mostly because it's a reminder, too, that I am not the one to give grace, necessarily, right? There's an element of hubris in that for sure. And sometimes just fallible humans are fallible humans, and I can just remove the element of disorder and decide that her "failings" don't work for me, and mine for her. The challenge is that what I perceive to be my failings, I don't think she even recognized. Instead, she made a bunch up to serve her "illness" or warped perception. But again, that doesn't even matter. I really liked the simple way you just laid all that out there. It's easy to get caught in all the "disorder" madness, and it;s valid and necessary to be aware of it, but also we can just walk away from something that doesn't work for us and leave it at that. I definitely sense some of my misgivings about not responding have to do with "not wanting to do to her what she did to me." But that's not really a good enough reason to reply, and it may be actually kinder and safer in the long run for us BOTH for me to just sit tight. Aaaand I'm back on my soapbox

[Daylight70]

findinggratitude said:

I appreciate everyone continuing to read all this. I do recognize it's all a bit much over a birthday email, for heaven's sake

It's not a bit much, it's a real issue. Also, perhaps I speak for others as well as myself, when I say that discussions like this are really very relevant and pertinent to me. All of these feelings/issues and the dilemma you face cut close to the bone, so it's therapeutic to spend some time thinking about it. That's the great thing about a forum like this - helping others with their issues can also help straighten our own feelings, understanding and healing.

[HoratioX]

I appreciate everyone continuing to read all this. I do recognize it's all a bit much over a birthday email, for heaven's sake

But it's not. The message isn't the issue. It's the symptom of the larger problem.

That problem is she's a manipulator, and the message is an attempt at manipulation. It wouldn't matter if it was 50 words or 50 pages. Her intent is the same.

I'm not a therapist, but to me, a sign of codependency is the Herculean effort so many people taken advantage of by people with BPD (and similar) to rationalize what that person did in ways that are palatable.

No offense, but that's usually why the person with BPD (and similar) chooses who they will manipulate. Many are expert at spotting weaknesses to exploit and knowing which buttons to push.

The way to protect yourself is simple: Knock it off. Stop rationalizing. Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt. In the language of old, grow a pair (or a spine or whatever).

Stand up for yourself, not in the sense of inflicting harm or lashing out but in knowing your boundaries and sticking to them. Not all messages require a response. Not all grievances are to be rationalized away. Not all trespasses are to be forgiven. Someone who truly cares about you will learn and accept this because it's simple human dignity. Someone who does not truly care about you will not.

I'm not saying this in a harsh way. You don't need to be mean or cruel to someone, especially if they have a profound mental illness. And not everyone with BPD (or similar) is toxic or manipulative, either. But when you cross paths with one who is, you have to think of yourself as prey, and the last thing prey needs to do is help the predator.

No, I'm not saying people with BPD (or similar) are all predators, and I don't wish to open some pedantic discussion on which personality disorders most fit which symptom because, if nothing else, we know that personality disorders often have comorbid symptoms that include facets of other ones.  I'm just using that as a basic model for illustration.

When someone goes overboard to explain away some with BPD's toxic behavior, what they're really doing is just giving that person ammunition to attack them with. That means they're not really looking to improve. They're just looking for ways to justify staying codependent in a relationship that is toxic. Again, I always say talk to a therapist for professional answers. But I'm guessing some, if not most, will tell you similar, if in different words. If you want to get better, start with yourself. Focus on yourself, not in a selfish way but in a healthy one. But the more someone just tries to find ways to justify doing what they've always done , the more they're just wasting time and defeating themselves. And keep in mind that ultimately doesn't help the person with BPD (or similar) either.

[ForeverDad]

She could make some level of recovery from BPD, but not through you.  BPD is a disorder most evident in close relationships. Your past history of close personal contact is too much baggage from the past for her to truly listen to you.

The best option for her to obtain a measure of recovery or improvement is to seek intensive therapy from an experienced therapist because the relationship is not emotional.

Many people with BPD are in intense Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting, in addition to the extreme emotional swings.  Without meaningful therapy you can't expect mere time to improve her.