Interesting perspective on parenting from BPD mother.

[Notwendy]

In a discussion with my BPD mother (I know it's probably useless but I feel obligated to say it), I mentioned keeping some of her funds in savings due to the the predicted rise in Medicare costs for 2025. When discussing her spending - from how she responds, she considers "her" spending to be things she buys for herself. Living expenses, insurance- pharmacy- this isn't factored in.

The usual response "I don't spend money on myself- I haven't even had a haircut. So, I won't get a haircut and I will just stay in my room all day and not go anywhere". (she can get a haircut- there's a place right at her assisted living but she won't go to it)

In exasperation I said "I don't understand why you'd want to put yourself in financial trouble. Only someone who hates themselves or hates their children or both would do such a thing."

Her reply was interesting. I didn't respond to it. She said "I took good care of my children. You didn't want for anything".

True, but it was my father's earnings - our material needs were well met. We didn't lack these things. Of course I am grateful for what my father provided for us. It is a significant part of parenting.

I said  "you don't need to take care of me now. I don't want any of this from you but seeing you doing this to yourself is stressful to us because we care about you".

She never addressed whether she hated us or not.

In the context of what she said to us- her behavior makes sense. Meeting our material needs as children is significant and I think that is all she thought was necessary for her to do as a mother. (I don't go into her emotional or verbal abuse with her).

She didn't show interest in me- but it makes sense if all she thinks being a mother is is to see we have our basic needs met ( she didn't do that but Dad did). And once we could do this for ourselves- she did her job.

She does see us as being useful to her and we aren't meeting these expectations. It makes sense if she's angry at us for that. But there doesn't seem to be any awareness of the behaviors, or the relationship beyond this.

I didn't respond to that. It seems to make sense.

[zachira]

I recently got hold of letters from my father written many years ago. I was stunned by how he talked mostly about material things. My mother with BPD was always talking about money. Neither parent had the capacity to understand the emotional needs of a child. I think part of disordered parents meeting the material monetary needs of their children, is that they look like good parents to the outside world.

[Notwendy]

That makes sense. People outside the family didn't have a clue. We had nice clothes, went to good schools, a nice place to live- and I don't want to seem ungrateful for these. They are good things. But disorder can happen in any family regardless of resources.

However, BPD mother's need for high end things would make me think she'd do the opposite- want all the resources for her and not us. To some extent this happened too. BPD mother controlled the money in the household. We didn't "want for anything" as she said but when Dad's finances were strained, he was frugal with us and not with her. It's as if we had two levels of socioeconomic status in our household with hers at the highest.

I don't mind this- it was a good thing. I learned to work to earn extra money in high school and college. I was eager to find summer jobs. I learned to budget.

I think what is interesting is her concept of parenting. I didn't connect to my mother emotionally- but there doesn't seem to be any bonding feelings to her. So for her to say we didn't want for anything- that is her truth. It's true that being a good parent includes meeting a child's material needs but it's not all of it.

I wonder about my father. I do have some memories of him being emotionally present but he also had a lot on his plate- supporting us, dealing with my BPD mother's behavior. No person would have the emotional bandwith to do it all. How could he have been so attached to someone who is so emotionally cold?

This explains her perspective. She believes she did her part well and so it's us kids who have failed her and she's angry that we aren't taking care of her. She can't see that I did try- but it is her emotional and vebal abusive behavior that leads to people distancing themselves from her- not just us but her extended family and some caregivers too.

[CC43]

Hi there,

I wonder if your mom was envious of any attention or money that her husband spent on you instead of on her. She might have resented any resources focused on you. Since she made all that “sacrifice,” and since it was so costly for her, she thinks she went above and beyond. I bet she thinks you OWE her for making such a huge sacrifice.

With BPD, her emotional maturity is lacking. She’s basically still a little girl thinking everything is about her and for her. She doesn’t consider housing and health insurance as spending for her—those are things that she’s entitled to after making all those sacrifices as a mom. I bet she thinks this way because she probably never had a job, and someone else always took care to ensure she had housing and insurance. Little kids don’t think about those things and neither does she. My BPD stepdaughter didn’t know what health insurance was until very recently. Why?  Because she never had to pay for it out of her own pocket until she aged out of her parents’ plan. Now my husband continues to pay it, and I bet she thinks she’s entitled to it….  Her money is exclusively for things she wants, and not for any living expenses, which her dad pays. I bet this way of thinking is fairly typical with BPD. It’s just in my stepdaughter’s case, she thinks she’s entitled because she’s a victim.

[Methuen]

I think we’re all on the same page here.

Anytime mom wanted to reward me for a job well done, it wasn’t with kind words or a hug.  It was with something material that she liked- and which I frankly had no use for as a child.

Like a crazy fancy ornate huge bedroom dresser when I won something big through hard work.

All I really wanted was a hug and recognition from my mom..

Not some clunky dresser of her style.

Talk about a miss.

They are just emotionally inept.

Like NW put it - unable to bond.

[Notwendy]

CC43- I think you are spot on. My father took care of everything. My mother has not had a job. In her era, women were not expected to work outside the home but she also didn't work inside the home- we had household help. She may be emotionally like a child but also she's been taken care of as if she were one.

When my father got ill- I brought this up to him. I asked him to please give me some access to their funds as I know she'd do damage to their assets. She was the one who refused and she kept her financial information secret from us. By the time I had any information, she'd done significant damage. On the other hand, I am glad my father didn't give me more power over it. With what she has, it's been a constant power struggle with her to prioritize her spending.

She even responds like a 4 year old. If I bring up a budget she responds "well then I won't get a haircut and I'll just sit in my room all day by myself" like a child would say when disciplined.

Yes, she feels like a victim. When I think of all my father has provided for her, it astounds me that she'd feel that way. Most people would be grateful. Yes, she feels entitled. I think you are correct that she only thinks of her spending as being on what she wants.

She did control whatever my father gave me. If I asked for something he'd need to clear it with her.

Growing up, I felt like a burden to my parents. I knew there were financial issues. While BPD mother may have felt entitled, I felt undeserving. I am grateful that I learned to fend for myself though.

[CC43]

Hi again Notwendy,

Your mom said, "Then I won't get a haircut and I'll stay in my room."  Have you tried agreeing with her, in a noncommital way?  Might you try a response like, "Maybe you're right."  That's one of my default responses when arguing with a person who isn't arguing very fairly.  Another one might be, "That's your choice," or, "That's up to you to decide."  The gist is to give her a sense of control without really conceding anything.

[Notwendy]

That's exactly what I said "ok then" .

Once she starts saying things like this, the conversation goes nowhere, so I just say OK. Usually that's the end of the conversation.

[Notwendy]

Anytime mom wanted to reward me for a job well done, it wasn’t with kind words or a hug.  It was with something material that she liked- and which I frankly had no use for as a child.

They are just emotionally inept.

Like NW put it - unable to bond.

Mine didn't give me things. Sometimes she'd give me one of her dresses if she didn't want them anymore. Since they were nice ones, I was happy to get one. She offered me one of her designer purses. I was excited at the idea since I haven't owned something like that. But when I got it home I saw that it was a defective one and was falling apart. It wasn't repairable or returnable.


She rarely sends me things but when she does, it's a small inexpensive trinket, something I have no use for.

I agree- better to have gotten a hug or a nice card.

When my father travelled on business, he'd bring back something for us. Even if he had picked them up at the airport, It was exciting for us to get something from Dad and know he was thinking of us.

[zachira]

Notwendy,
My mother did not work and we had all kinds of hired help. She was always in a bad mood when she got up in the morning, resented fixing breakfast for her children, and the breakfasts were inedible. She was a good cook the rest of the day. She had limited capacity with her mood swings and somehow made it through the day. I can't imagine how miserable it would have been to be her. She talked to others about how much it meant to be a mother, though there were certainly people who got it that she was not able to have empathy for her children.

We did get nice things from mom, though there was never any real emotional connection. I would have loved to have gotten some genuine appreciation and empathy from her and my other disordered family members.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother is angry and bitter that we are not more like her extended family.

There are differences. They all live close to each other. Growing up, we kids felt envious of their family. They all looked normal to us. They aren't perfect- there is a bit of narcisism in this family but also they have stable relationships and are caring about each other.

We grew up feeling like outsiders to this family. They didn't include us much. They seemed very much involved with each other. They are a bit enmeshed in my opinion but far more functional and normal than my FOO.

They all live near each other. We kids moved away and even my kids don't live right near me.


If one of the elder generation has a medical issue- the kids and grandkids are all there helping.

She is angry because one of them had surgery and stayed with one of their children to recuperate. However, this adult child lives 5 minutes from them.

My BPD mother is bitter and angry that we are not there for all her medical issues. However, when we do come to help, she's verbally and emotionally abusive to us. We also have to travel to come see her.

In her mind, she did the same thing her family did- take care of the kids materially. So she expects us to do the same as their family. What doesn't register to her is that her extended family didn't emotionally and verbally abuse their children and also formed a relationship with them beyond material provisions.

So in my BPD mother's perspective, we really did fail her. Nothing I have done is creditable because- I didn't bring her to live near me and I don't act as her caregiver, and also my children don't do this either.

I am accountable for not being as attentive to her as I think an adult child should be if the situation were normal. However, her abusive behavior is extraordinary.  Even my H says he wouldn't want her to move near me. The distance is there as a boundary. But this doesn't register with my mother.

[TelHill]

If one of the elder generation has a medical issue- the kids and grandkids are all there helping.

She is angry because one of them had surgery and stayed with one of their children to recuperate. However, this adult child lives 5 minutes from them.

Notwendy,

That’s unusual these days. Within my own conservative Catholic family here and overseas, this does not happen. You find an inexpensive helper or the elderly family member is placed in a home.  Helping is seeing them a few times whether in the nursing home or their own home with the helper.

It used to happen 40 years ago when the life expectancy was lower (75-80) and the cost of living was much lower where a family member could afford to not work for a while. Then a stroke or a fall would be a death sentence. Now they go on and on with multiple falls, heart problems, etc.

With that being said, I do feel sad for not helping. I want to but it subjects me to the abuse of my uBPD sibling and dBPD mom. I do what I can to help and to mitigate any issues my uBPD sibling seems to cause

In exasperation I said "I don't understand why you'd want to put yourself in financial trouble. Only someone who hates themselves or hates their children or both would do such a thing."

Her reply was interesting. I didn't respond to it. She said "I took good care of my children. You didn't want for anything".

My family didn’t have the same financial means when I was growing up, but my mom said a similar thing when I asked if she hated me a few years ago. She kept me clean, fed and warm.  That’s true and I appreciate it. She was emotionally absent and cruel. Every day of my childhood I was frightened and cried.

She acted like my bullying sister or classmate rather than a loving mother. That concept is not natural to her. I think it’s the way her brain is wired. She had a lot of trauma growing up as did her brothers and sisters (nine of them) but none of them are or were like her.

You did your duty informing her of the rise of Medicare costs. You are kind and helpful despite her being difficult. She has to play by the rules whether she doesn’t get it or pretends not to.

A therapist told me what CC43 suggested by saying okay or that’s too bad. It shows you understand their frustration while not feeding their need for drama or goading. You are doing a great job caring for your mother!

[Notwendy]

Thanks for the reassurance.

Yes, BPD mother's extended family is unusually close- there's some enmeshment there. It's not that they are completely without dysfunction, (no family probably is) but by comparison, they are so much more "normal". My mother has felt inferior to them and there's a sense of wanting to keep up with them and try to impress them. For a while, they were, but her behavior became more evident to them over time.

There's a social embarrassment to this. Even if my BPD mother may not care if I visit or not, she wants to be seen as a good mother and grandmother. My children make their own choices. If they wanted to visit her, they could do that.

My mother assumes I could "make them visit" - as she may have done with us - but my children are adults and they make their own choices. I don't "make" them do anything.

I understand why she wants what her extended family has. We wished for it too. They were the example of a "normal" family to us.  The parents act as if they like each other. The kids are close. They do lots of things together as a family. We have felt as if we were on the outside of this looking in.

By contrast, we are closer to my Dad's family. We spent a lot of time with them and they treated us like we were a part of the family. We did feel loved and included by them.

Once children are on their own and don't need parents to provide the material needs- there needs to be something more to the relationship to stay connected. FOG isn't what makes a relationship. There is a moral obligation to parents to some extent but a relationship becomes more like other adult relationships. If the relationship is through control and fear, then it's different.