My adult child. My first post

[DrmWeaver]

My adult daughter has BPD. I have done everything I know how to do. None of it has worked. I don't know what to do next. She claims to want to reconcile, but the fight is only on her side. It feels like Charlie Brown and the football. I just want the cycle to stop. She is angry about things that aren't true and never happened. How do you apologize for that?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[kells76]

Hi DrmWeaver and a warm

Effective relating to a pwBPD can be deeply unintuitive, so this make sense:

I have done everything I know how to do. None of it has worked. I don't know what to do next.

"Normal" relationship tools that get suggested -- like "explaining your point of view", or "apologizing no matter what", or "agreeing to let the past be the past", don't generally help when BPD is involved, and can often increase conflict. It's no wonder we're at a loss and feel like we've tried everything we know.

BPD relationship tools aren't always what we think of right away, but can be so helpful once we give them a try. A big one is for us to decrease conflict by stopping "JADE-ing" (Justifying, Arguing, Defending, and Explaining). As you check out the link, anything there stand out to you, or sound familiar?

...

How old is your adult daughter, and is she living at home?

Do you have a spouse/partner, and if so, how is your relationship?

Do you have any other children?

Understanding your family situation can help us support you the way you most need 

Looking forward to learning more about what's going on for you, and again, welcome;

kells76

[DrmWeaver]

Thank you Kells76.
I probably should have started with a more robust introduction but I just didn't have the energy.  I'm also paranoid she will find this board and identify me, but I'm also probably not the only person to worry about this. I don't think it can get worse, so I will keep going.

My daughter is in her early 30's. In her teens she was diagnosed with Histrionic PD, but it was never explained to us that this was a type of Borderline. A few years ago she was dx'd BPD as part of a behavior health crisis. She has since decided that she doesn't have BPD, I assume this is somewhat typical? 

She does not live at home, she lives about 12 hours away and has a partner. She has a good job and appears successful in all of the external ways. For the last several years her contact with me has been intermittent, her choice, not mine. We were once very close and that inexplicably changed in her early 20s. She would become inexplicably angry at me for what felt like random things.  I didn't support her causes "enough" My beliefs were not "similar enough" to hers, even though these were never things I discussed with her, she was angry at me all the same.  After 4-6 months, she would inexplicably make contact again.  Sometimes for a period of time and it would seem like we were able to have a true mother/daughter relationship, then, like a weather change, she's angry again.  It would be easier to understand if we had a conflict, a discussion, something we disagreed on.  What seems to happen is when we actually get close and doing well by my assessment, there will be a surprise attack  "You didn't watch the golf game, if you really cared about me, you would watch golf!!!" or  "your hair is short and it should be long!"  "You drink tea, but it should be coffee, and even though you drink coffee with me, I know that you're still a tea drinker"  (isolated examples, but they are all equally random and bizarre)  And I'm left baffled, we aren't golfing people and we haven't even had conversations about most of these things, but she is arbitrarily angry about it. It feels like if I am going to be close to her, then I must be exactly the same as her.  Same beliefs, same opinions, same feelings, exactly the same.  You don't know me but I don't think I could be more passive as a personality.  I am the farthest thing from aggressive, which is probably why this hurts so much.

I am married, 2nd husband, and he is loving and supportive, he is a source of strength. He never lived with my daughter, but he has seen the last 8-10 years play out. He gets it.

I have 2 other adult children and I have a very good relationship with both of them. Zero issues, nothing like this. They all were raised in the same house together, they all have the same father etc... Their dad and I are divorced but have a good relationship, he has also been horribly and inexplicably attacked and hurt by her in the past. I don't think there has been any contact in a long time. A lot of her anger at me is displaced anger she has about her dad.

Very few people in my 'real life' know this is going on and it's hard to admit it to myself.

We recently went through a sequence of text messages in which she appeared to looking for resolution of the past and to have a relationship with me. She said she knew I was the parent who loved and cared about her and that she needed her mom in her life. She asked for apologies for some very specific things, mostly related to her father. Why didn't I do this, why didn't I do that. There was emotional abuse from her father, mostly because of her volatile teen years and he took the authoritative approach which backfired horrendously.  I gave every apology I knew how to give. The hole only gets deeper, I only become "more wrong" and she accuses me of "not wanting to have a relationship with her"  It's like there is some mystery phrase that I have to guess. It is gaslighting at it's finest.

I feel so guilty that I have come to enjoy the quite phases when she does not talk to me. After our last episode earlier this year, I didn't think I would hear from her for years, but she was back a few months later.  I tell myself to keep emotional distance now, but a child is a very personal thing. No matter what, it still hurts every single time she turns on me.

I have wanted to give her a piece of my mind, to set the record straight and tell her what I really think, and that's one of the reasons I'm here.  I'm sure someone has tried it.  I need to hear "that is not going to work, and it's a bad idea and here's why..." 

[KitKat68]

Hi DrmWeaver,

Reading your post and I see we have some in common with our daughters.

My daughter and I, she is in her 30’s and we’ve been estranged about 4 years now, completely no contact but this time I was the one to walk away. She was dx’d with bpd during early adulthood and aside from a few therapy appointments early on she has never received treatment. Years back she was on antidepressants for a short time and it seemed to decrease a lot of her more obvious, general issues (such as irritability) but like most other things she didn’t stick with it and things slid back to normal. Of course there’s no pill for BPD but that short course of antidepressants did help in a roundabout way.

My daughter appears to be high functioning and all seems well on the surface but much lurks underneath all that. She is married but her sorta naive husband doesn’t know the half of the things she’s done, she’s lied to the current people in her life about us, and whenever she feels like it she weaponizes the relationship between her children and us. I’ve been married to her stepdad almost 30 years, had a good relationship with her dad/my ex until he died several years ago, and my current husband and I have two adult aged kids who she was mostly raised with and neither of them have the same issues. My daughter is also estranged from her stepdad and siblings, and my one living parent.

I’ve been pretty angry at my daughter this last four years and I’d also love to, some days anyway, give her a piece of my mind about her past and current terrible behavior. So far I haven’t done it because of the conflict that would ensue afterward. My daughter unfortunately seems to thrive off of that chaos and can keep an argument going for hours. I’ve also been warned to not JADE with her and she does love to twist my words and throw things back in my face.

Logically I understand the purpose of not JADEing but emotionally I’m not convinced yet, I still have the urge to contact her to give her a piece of my mind. But the people, some of them here and also my therapist, who’ve told me it isn’t a good idea, I definitely believe them yet that urge is still there. Like you, I also want to know the ins and outs of what would happen if I did reach out in the manner I’ve considered.

What I’ve been warned the most about reaching out is that some people with BPD are vengeful. I can say my daughter isn’t beyond seeking revenge and I know she’s engaged in her smear campaigns where she exaggerates and tells full on lies to people about her stepdad and me. She’s also tried using my work information to inappropriately contact me and tried to figure out who my boss and coworkers are. I work for the government and if she had the patience and knew where to look she could probably piece it together. I don’t know what she thinks she’d tell these people other than her made up garbage but I did warn my boss and HR about her. Our IT department did block her known email addresses because one email she sent me at work a couple years back was pretty bad, constituted harassment.

I think I have a pretty decent idea what my daughter would do in response to me reaching out to her and I’m betting it would not be good which is why I’ve never hit send.

[BPDstinks]

hi!  I am very sorry you are going through this!  my story resonates with yours, sadly!  My 24 y/o daughter was diagnosed with BPD 2 years ago....5/24/2022 she said (amongst many things) I was "enabling her" (I was doing, word for word, things she asked me to do, (horrible things, like doling out her pills, so she did not (her words) overdose, hiding her knives, really awful things...staying at her apartment 3 nights a week (though, i would give anything now to stay there, this was very hard, I work at 6 am...so, i was exhausted) she too, would make bizarre statements (i had to switch psychiatrists because somehow she ended up at the doctor I had for 6 years!) on & on....we have had minimal contact (all her choice) basically, she texts me when (and only when!) she needs something....the weirdest thing of all these weird things...out of the blue, she is very close to my mother (her grandmother (she avoided her for years); I am just doing a Jesus Take the Wheel approach, because I am befuddled; (i should have added, she just "dumped" me, her father, sister & beautiful nieces, like hotcakes; the first round of holidays was brutal (Christmas, I just "froze", did not know WHAT to do (I texted, sent gift cards); her birthday, i admit, I could barely get out of bed, I was so sad, all day; i really feel sad the majority of the day, however, similar to you (?) I do appreciate the lack of drama (she was CRUEL) so...I don't have advice, other than, just hang in there and find whatever peace you can! (feel fee to reach out, if you like!)

[DrmWeaver]

KitKat and BPDS, thank you so much for your replies. This is the first time I've reached out for support for BPD outside of a very small group family and friends.  Your empathy and kindness mean more than I can say.

KitKat, our daughters really do have a lot of things in common. I've been reading up on JADE and while the term is new to me, the general concept is not.  I understand that gaslighting is not something that you can give attention to.  I feel like the "water" I would use to "put out the fire" with anyone else is just "jet fuel" for her and it makes everything worse.  I am incapable of being mean or cruel to her, even if I am tempted. 

I did have to notify some people at work that she may attempt to slander me in some kind of public way so that they would be aware if it ever happened.  To my knowledge she has not tried this. 
My daughter does not have children and does not intend to, so I am grateful to have been spared that pain.  I can't even imagine.

I have a more technical question and I wonder if anyone has a strategy for it. I use an android phone. I have not blocked her phone number, and I'm aware of how that works. I think it would enrage her if she figured it out, so I haven't gone there.  Her phone number does not give me an alert or make a sound when she texts (she does not call, she does all of this in writing - if we ever do talk, it is like Jekyll Hyde, she is COMPLETELY different (she refuses to talk by phone now so that is not an option). But seeing her name on my phone is physically painful.  It's very hard not to read the messages, but I will sometimes forward them to a close friend and ask her to summarize them for me so I don't have to read it.  I guess I want a way to not see her messages unless I choose to look.  I hate being in the middle of a workday, getting a message from someone else and not being able to look away or ignore it when I see she has also sent a message.  Does anyone have any advice on managing incessant texts / undesirable messages?

I'm also trying to figure out how to keep my responses neutral. It's so hard and I have been going down the path to try and appease her knowing full well what was going on.  I did it so that I could prove to myself that even if I had done absolutely everything that I could, that it would not be enough. At times friends/family have said "why are you even putting up with this? Cut ties and be done"  But if I do that, I have to KNOW that I did everything I could, that I tried, and that it is not possible.  I know that everything changes from that point, and frankly, I'm there. I've seen and experienced enough to know that this will never be settled no matter what I say or do.  But this also means that the relationship is effectually over. I will always have to acknowledge or passively respond at some level, but it needs to be much less.  I did read in a book "if you give BPD more than one sentence, then you are saying too much"  And while that may be debatable, that may need to be where I'm at for the foreseeable future.  She sent more angry texts this morning that I haven't responded to.  Perhaps it's time to implement this. 

[CC43]

Hi Weaver,

You seem to be pretty level-headed and have a good grasp of the dynamics with your daughter, and also of how tiring and triggering it can feel to bear the brunt of her outbursts.  Though your daughter might not be capable of thinking about anything except in terms of extremes--all black or all white--your are more nuanced and can see many shades of gray.  When dealing with her, you might need to walk a fine line, by supporting her but not enabling her destructive behavior, by being tolerant of differences but not abuse, by being helpful but not a doormat, by giving a hand but not your whole arm, and by validating feelings but not falsehoods.  You are her mom, and while you can divorce a spouse, you can't divorce a kid.  If she is haranguing you, accusing you of all sorts of false transgressions, it's logical that you'll need a break sometimes, lest you try to defend yourself or retaliate, and you know that will just add fuel to the fire, as you aptly observed!  These are healthy boundaries.  You can't control your daughter, but you can control how you respond to her.  So it's healthy of you to recognize that she's getting on your nerves, and you need some time and/or distance to collect yourself.  You have your own life, and you deserve to be happy, and not have someone constantly trying to ruin your mood.

I like the idea of silencing texts from her.  I think it's possible to "silence" alerts and/or conversations on your phone, effectively treating her messages like Spam, which they probably are.  You could Google "silence a conversation on Android" or something like that to get the instructions for your particular phone.  That way, you won't get alerts from her when you don't want them, such as when you're working or trying to sleep.  Over time, she might get the message, no pun intended.  If you stop responding to her Spam-texts, then maybe she'll eventually learn to stop sending them, because they don't get the desired reaction--making you feel hurt, riling you up, getting some sort of retribution for all the pain you cause her, feeding the fire of her ire.  You don't have to tell her what you're doing, just do it.  You don't have to respond to her messages, because angry, mean text-rants don't deserve a response.  Just delete them like spam and move on.  I know this is easier said than done, because the texts are triggering--insulting, falsehoods, etc.  Just take the mean texts as a signal that something else is going on in your daughter's life that is disappointing or stressful to her, and she's taking it out on you, because she hasn't learned how to cope in a healthy way yet.  I suspect the texts have absolutely nothing to do with you, even if she is blaming you for her problems.  Is she dredging up crap from ancient childhood?  Is she accusing you of abuse?  Look, the stories of ABUSE are an EXCUSE for her poor choices and behavior.  It's a coping mechanism, not the reason for her current problems.  Once you see things this way, the texts might not be so triggering for you.  But you'll still worry about her, because she's your daughter.  If she has a real emergency, she can call you directly, or she can call 911.

Just my two cents.  I wish you some peace.

[DrmWeaver]

Thanks CC

I've pinned several messages on my phone so the top of the list doesn't have her name. I'm exploring blocking options. Thanks for the tips.

She is accusing her father of abuse and while I understand this is such a sensitive issue and I divorced him for many reasons, if I had evidence of a crime, he would be in jail. He did make some extremely poor choices but he did not do what she claims and her story and accusations have only grown. It's extremely touchy because if I say "that didn't happen" it sets off a bomb. An abstract example of what she's saying is something like this. She says "you went to the bank and robbed it". And reality is, I just went to the bank and made a withdrawal. "so you went to the bank and you left with money, that's what bank robbery is “ No, I went to the bank and took out my money.... She splits the conversation into a million little splinters so that nothing is completely false and if you try to explain or defend, well that just proves your guilt

[BPDstinks]

Hi!  I offer this tiny suggestion that I was taught...as far as responses (for me, it is frustrating, I am a fast person!) if a friend said, shut the F up to me (as pwBPD has) I would want to punch them...instead, I was told to (take a deep breath!) say, "it appears my presence is bothering you, let's try (whatever activity) when you are in a better state (not mood) and i was told do NOT apologize or be defensive (that one is hard!) I DO hope you have some improvement, I know it is a tough road & few people understand (my mom (pwBPD's new BFF (insert facetious laugh) says, "i need to stop enabling her, etc.) (I am just so afraid of being THE trigger)

[CC43]

Hi again Weaver,

Indeed, I'm familiar with the twisted re-casting of history.  My stepdaughter has a high-conflict mom, which led to a drama-filled household when she and her siblings were growing up.  I have little doubt that her childhood was stressful at times.  But there's a huge leap between familial stresses, like arguments and sibling rivalries, to the claims of abuse that she is now making.  By the way, before she went off to college, she never made any claims of abuse.  But once she went to college and faced a bunch of setbacks--getting kicked out of her rooming group and failing out--her BPD behaviors emerged in full force (worsened by marijuana no doubt), and she started to recast ancient history.  She was re-interpreting her childhood to be a horribly abusive one, so that she could blame her parents and siblings for her recent failures.  Her stories were tinged with suggestions of physical abuse, death threats and sexual abuse, which were false.  Thought there might be a kernel of truth--like an argument--the details were distorted so that she was portrayed as a victim.  Perhaps ironically, she'd neglect to mention that she was the instigator of certain altercations.  One example was that 911 was called when she threatened suicide because she didn't get what she wanted, but according to her retelling of the story, she was assaulted by her mom and the police.

Perhaps we'll never know if she really believes her fabrications, or if she's basically forced to lie in order to perpetuate her victim narrative.  It seems like she deliberately leaves some details hazy of past purported traumas, to increase her credibility.  If my husband tries to set the record straight, she'll just deflect, change some details or dredge up another incident of supposed abuse.  There's no convincing her, and she's not listening, anyway.  She continues to demand confessions, apologies and cruel retribution for things that never happened.  Because her parents and siblings don't want to agree with her version of events (i.e. validate the invalid), she might never get what she wants.  And because of this, she remains estranged from most of her family.  Now, I'd understand her if she said something more nuanced, like her childhood home environment was full of conflict, and because she's sensitive, it was too stressful for her and could put her a little behind in terms of social-emotional skills, and now she's mourning the happy, carefree childhood that she missed out on.  That I would understand.  She could have said, she needs extra love, support and time as she makes the difficult transition to adulthood, and I'd agree with that, too.  She might benefit from extra help and training on executive functioning and life skills, along with treatment for her BPD.  She could have gone to college somewhere closer to home, with greater parental support and more familiar surroundings.  But as you probably know, BPD thinking tends to be black or white, and instead of a "difficult" or "challenging" childhood, she only sees a "horrible" and "abusive" one, and she intends to continue to paint it that picture, even if it means she's alienated from the family.  Does that sound misguided, and yet familiar, to you?

I was hoping that my stepdaughter would drop the narrative of abuse and focus more on the future.  My biggest hope is that once she graduates college and starts working, she'll fortify her identity as a successful college graduate who works in her chosen field and lives independently in the city of her choice.  Then she can start to shed the poor-little-abused-girl persona, as she doesn't need excuses anymore for her failure to launch.  She'd be on more equal footing with her siblings, and she might have a chance at repairing those relationships, as well as relationships with extended family.  At least that's what I hope.  But I'm guessing that won't happen by the holidays this year.

[KBug]

DRM,

I'm sorry that you are going through all of this heartache. You're definitely in the right place. Many of us have similar stories.

The accusations from my step-daughter (24 years old) are really difficult to handle. I really struggle with how to respond. Sometimes, they are flat out fabrication. Sometimes, they have a grain of truth surrounded by fabrication and misunderstanding. Sometimes it's malicious. Other times I think something gets triggered in her, she has strong feelings, and then tells herself a story and hurts her own feelings. Anyway, it's exhausting for both of us as well as my husband.

I've been working with my therapist on how to deal with the accusations. He suggested that I warn her that I am not going to engage with her while she's making accusations. If she continues, then I should walk away, hang up, or stop responding/block her on my phone. So far, it's working. She gets really angry and will ghost me for awhile, but the accusations are diminishing.

Sometimes, I feel a bit guilty because I'm not listening to her/helping her, but I have to take care of myself first. If not, she can really erode my mental health. She gets angry because she thinks that I don't care about her, but she thinks that any time I set a boundary. I'm learning (over and over) that her struggles belong to her and that I can't really fix them. She's only going to become an independent adult when she learns to address her own challenges and has to bear the brunt of the consequences of her own behaviors. I'm becoming okay with the ghosting because accusations and many of her other behaviors are exhausting and I need a break. She usually comes back around when she needs something or she's feeling more emotionally regulated. Either way, she's nicer to me. I wish that our dynamic was different but it is what it is.

I suspect that me not engaging in her emotional tornadoes helps her for several reasons: she sees examples of setting boundaries and not getting caught up in other people's drama, she learns that even people who love you aren't going to put up with verbal and emotional abuse, and she realizes that provoking people and lying aren't going to get her what she wants from relationships.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders