The Isolation!

[Sunsets]

My UDD19 yo daughter isolates so much of the time!!  Does anyone else experience this with their BPD adult child?  I have been reading and reading but have not found anything that addresses this specifically and how to combat it. She refuses to allow me to be part of her therapy, and also refuses DBT work or any psychiatry. So we are at a standstill in so many ways.
She’s currently unemployed. She does college 100% online and she does not drive. She walks occasionally. Often times she is off med so I know this could be depression or perhaps related to her being slightly on the spectrum, though she is also UD With that.
I have been practicing self-care and using skills in my conversations with her, but there must be some basic accountability. We clean up behind and do things for her and I know this does not help things and I’m working on that!  as you all aware, you don’t want to set them off. But this just causes us to give up more of ourselves to avoid that confrontation.
She outright refuses to do common tasks like laundry or clean up after herself. At what point can we say if you want to live here you must abide by these rules (albeit so very minimal).wear clean clothes, wash them, clean your bedding etc and so on. I know this may sound ridiculous but I’m sure there’s someone out there Who’s understanding where I’m coming from.  I know I cannot force her to get more help, but I feel we must be able to do something here in a compassionate but realistic way.  Ultimatums do not work.  This is short right now but could really use some suggestions.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

Hi Sunsets
Yes it is ridiculous in a normal situation. It can be 'normal' though for a variety of conditions - and that's when it gets tricky.

It is often associated with depression - and my DD is diagnosed with BPD and can't really maintain the ordinary household tasks. I have tried to set her up to be able to do this many times previously but no success. She hoards stuff, gets energy to cook etc in spurts and then can't sustain it on a daily basis.

Your difficulty is that you don't know what is going on really. DD is only 19 - which can be a difficult age normally let alone with various conditions.

The isolation could be due to depression or other disorder. The good thing you mentioned is that DD is seeing someone. It seems if you try to get her to do these things you just get anger in response?

There doesn't seem to be anything you can do re the isolation. We are all cornered in that way - having to cope with the difficulties presented by our child's problems without being able to even offer possible solutions.

In relation to the lack of responsibility, you could push hard, endure the anger etc. This approach would need to be consequences based, and if DD simply refused what would your consequence be? Some would say DD would need to move out if not going to take these responsibilities seriously.

That is an option of course. But I think that can have serious consequences too.

My only advice is to think through the possible consequences of all the options available and make sure you can follow through if need be. If we act out of our legitimate frustration at the situation we are dealing with, we might end up with an even more difficult situation.

Coping with these impossible situations is so exhausting, so frustrating.

[Notwendy]

The sense I got from reading your post ( and we are all lay people here) is that this degree of isolation is more like someone on the spectrum than only BPD. People can have more than one condition, but if she is on the spectrum- then it would help you and her to know that if she would agree to being evaluated for that.

There is some overlap in behaviors- one is difficulty with regulating emotions, and being prone to anxiety and stress.

My BPD mother does both- the isolation and yet, she enjoys the affirmation she gets from social situations. She has a "social persona". She also avoids household tasks and may isolate at times, but given the opportunity to be in a social setting- where she feel supported- she likes that and it's a postive affirmation for her. A person on the spectrum would probably feel anxious in that setting. While my BPD mother is high functioning in her social skills, she is low functioning in her ability to manage daily tasks. From what I have heard about her in her younger years- she may not have done many household tasks but she was very social. 

It seems your D is ovewhelmed and so is narrowing her world in order to cope and possibly depressed too. But in all her refusal- she is doing online classes. Is she keeping up? This may be her only source of affirmation/positive reinforcement if she is.

If she is shut down- nagging, ultimatums, requests- they aren't going to work. I think change has to start with you- and your learning how best to manage with a counselor and also for support for your feelings and stresses. Are you enabling her or is she low functioning in some areas? Another approach is to find ways to meet her where she is. If she won't do her own laundry on her own- is she willing to do it together with you. Folding clothes together is time together. Will she take a walk with you?

[CC43]

Hi there Sunsets,

My stepdaughter was diagnosed with BPD and she isolated for around four years.  For most of that time, she was NEETT--Not in Employment, Education, Training or Therapy.  She was basically on permanent "vacation," in the sense that she vacated her life.  She was in avoidance mode, and she was waiting.  I say "waiting" because she was often in transition, such as waiting from March to September so that she could go back to college, but after enrolling she'd drop out a couple weeks later, and she'd end up right back where she started.  She might try a part-time job, but she'd quit within two or three days and then give up completely for a few months.  I also say "waiting," because it seemed that she wanted wonderful things to happen TO her (for example, being discovered and becoming a famous artist, model or "viral" internet influencer), but without doing any work or having realistic expectations.  While she was waiting, she was rotting in her bedroom, hating everyone and everything, including herself.  She'd be up all night scrolling on her phone, which surely fed her FOMO, as she saw peers moving on and living curated, exciting lives, while she was rotting in her bedroom.  She'd sleep all day and wouldn't join the family for dinner.  She lived like a slob, wouldn't do anything, and she was in a perpetually sour mood.  She neglected her personal hygiene.  She used marijuana to self-medicate.  On occasion, she'd disappear, not informing anyone where she was going.  But that was relatively rare, maybe once a week.  I imagine she purchased marijuana and treats to eat.  I'm pretty sure she lost all her friends, and she was estranged from all her family, except for us of course, whom she merely tolerated because she needed room, board and spending money.  Her besties from high school were long gone.  She couldn't tolerate seeing her siblings or extended family during holidays (seeing others happy is a trigger for pwBPD).  In short, she was depressed and alienated.  When she did talk to her dad, the conversation would typically devolve into a blame game and/or a shouting match.  She'd say she couldn't take it anymore, that she was hopeless, that she wanted to die.  She blamed her parents and siblings for all her current problems, and she dredged up ancient slights from childhood as the reason she couldn't function.  Her fact patterns were wildly distorted, and often delusional.  She had a pervasive victim mentality and exceedingly high expectations of others which were never met.  She really struggled with adult-level responsibilities, and disliked all the stress and work involved.  Therefore college was way too demanding and complicated for her to handle.  She'd act extremely impulsively, lash out at others, throw tantrums and self-sabotage at nearly every turn.  Then she'd retreat in embarrassment and isolation.  When she did nothing for weeks on end, she eventually felt like nothing.  When she ate crap, she eventually felt like crap.  Sorry for the ramble, but that basically sums up four wasted years.

I was upset that my husband tolerated this for so long.  His daughter needed help, as her choices weren't healthy ones or even in her own self-interest.  But my husband kept insisting that she was an adult, and he couldn't force her to do anything.  Well, I thought that was true in theory, but she was living under our roof most of the time, and she was completely, 100% dependent on us.  She wasn't contributing or even moving in the right direction towards becoming an independent adult, and she was clearly unwell--her mental state impaired her decision-making!  She had fewer responsibilities and worse functioning than a kindergartener, who manages to attend school, get dressed, clean up toys, come to dinner, bathe before bedtime and say please and thank you.  If anything, she was REWARDED for her poor behavior, because my husband shielded her from negative consequences in the name of keeping her alive.  He shielded her out of LOVE.  He thought, if he just gave her everything she wanted, she'd be happy.  However, that just doesn't work.  For example, she tried to commit suicide, and she asked him not to tell anyone or take her to the hospital, because she didn't want to go.  He asked me to go along with this fiction!  But I insisted that they go to the hospital, because she was unwell, and she needed to get help!  Fortunately for all of us, the psychiatric support in our area is excellent.  The caveat though is that the patient has to want to get better for therapy to work.  My stepdaughter had to hit bottom (with increasingly serious suicide attempts) to decide she needed help to have a chance at feeling better.  And my husband had to accept that continuing to enable the status quo, by giving his daughter everything she wanted in the name of keeping her alive, was NOT WORKING.  On these boards, this behavior is summed up by FOG--operating out of Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

Anyway, your daughter does have some things going for her right now.  She's living with you, so you can keep an eye on her.  She's taking some online classes, which is moving in the right direction in terms of completing her education.  She's walking, which gets her out of the house and gives her some exercise, which I think is very important for mental health.  She's been prescribed some medications, which means she's seen doctors at some point.  If she has a BPD diagnosis, at least you know what you're dealing with, though it's common to have co-existing conditions like anxiety, depression and substance abuse.  At least for these issues there are medications that can work!  I'd advise to proceed in baby steps:  help her add responsibilities in increments.  Maybe she could do one in-person class next semester.  Maybe she could sign up for driver's ed.  Maybe she could get a simple part-time job, like dog walking for a neighbor, tutoring a neighborhood child or babysitting, which would have the triple benefit of earning some cash, getting her out of the house and building responsibility.  Since she's 19, I'd advise that she should be responsible for paying for her own cell phone, starting now, so that she has real incentive to get a part-time job.  It would be really nice if she could rebuild a peer network somehow, maybe by volunteering, or working part-time, or doing one or two classes in person (any one of these options would be a great start).  Another option would be to enroll in a community-based activity, like a pottery class or yoga or barre sessions, whatever activity your daughter might be drawn to.  I find that getting out of the house regularly and rebuilding friendships is an early signal that things are moving in the right direction, and your daughter would probably start to feel less alienated.

A question is, how to encourage your daughter to do all that?  In my stepdaughter's case, offering carrots just didn't work, so it came down to sticks.  She got an ultimatum:  she could choose to do exactly what the doctors ordered (which included recommendations for therapy, medication, re-integration classes/programs, sleep hygiene and exercise), or she could choose to go her own way, but without financial support.  I think her choice became an easy one.  I'll note that the notion of "following doctor's orders" was an approach I suggested which turned out to be turning point for my family.  It absolved my husband of coming up with ideas of how to deal with BPD, which as you know is complicated.  And my stepdaughter liked the idea of heeding "professional" advice.  Though the professional advice might have been exactly what you or I recommend, it wasn't "tainted" with familial baggage, and it didn't contradict her narrative, that her parents CAUSED all her troubles.  I mean, if in her mind, her parents were abusive and destructive towards her, then why would she ever do what they requested?  Putting the power in doctors' hands seemed to be more palatable in her mind.  Does that make any sense?  It almost came down to saying, nothing we've been doing has been working, and your daughter wants to feel better.  Doctors see this sort of issue all the time, they will know best what to do.  Your daughter's job right now is to do whatever the doctors tell her--and not decide for herself to quit meds or skip a program because she doesn't feel like it.  And your job is to make sure she follows through.  If she doesn't, then that's her choice, but then she's on her own.

[Notwendy]

Wow CC43- that's a difficult situation for you and your H and SD. Glad she did turn the corner.

Since both BPD and being on the spectrum were mentioned, it could help to know what is going on since both can isolate, but the approach might differ.

My BPD mother in her younger years didn't neglect her hygiene or appearance. She was meticulous about her appearance. With actual daily tasks, she is low functioning but did socialize some.

The only young person I know with BPD is similar- daily tasks, college, jobs, those are difficult for her. But she doesn't like to be alone. She is pretty and men are attracted to her and so she does socialize as it's an affirmation for her.

I also know a young woman on the spectrum who isolates but this is due to social anxiety.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother does isolate now. She also refuses to bathe which is unusual for her. She’s in assisted living and so has been evaluated by medical staff for depression or dementia and it’s not that. We thought she’d enjoy the social activities but she refuses to go to them. So yes it is possible for someone with BPD to also isolate like this.

[js friend]

Hi sunsets,

 my udd has always hated housework. At one time I thought it was a phase and also a way of being rebellious but it has reamined an issue and she is now 31yo. I have read that severe depression and low self esteem can make someone not care about their hygiene or physical appearance, but I also have to wonder if this depression also causes the person to not care about the hygiene and physical appearance of their children as my gc were often dropped off at my house without being washed, having their hair combed or their teeth brushed. It always seemed to me that she just wanted them to  grow up too quickly and not be reliant on her.....so she just neglected it.

I also believe that my udd suffers from social anxiety and has a great fear of being around people. I noticed this from when she was very young and she would stay in her room for hours at a time....even days if I had let her. She just didnt want to be around people and said that she only liked going out at night when there was less people around. Even now she drives everywhere even when she could easily walk.
I have met a few people with social anxiety and it takes a real effort from them to even leave their house and  interact with others because of the physical affects. Just thinking about it can lead to negative thoughts about themselves and make them panic...... I think the first step to help your dd would be to do some type of exposure therapy with her if she is willing. I wish my udd had  more more interactions face to face as I think that it really develops a persons character. .I would be thinking of somewhere quiet and where there a few people like the museum, a movie in the day, a library, gardening or even going for a walk.

[CC43]

Hi there,

I'm just chiming in with some more possible insights.  Sometimes I think that social isolation can be the result of low self esteem.  In my stepdaughter's case, she was preoccupied with her looks, and it seemed that a couple of pimples would make her want to avoid other people.  I guess that staying away made her feel left out, alienated, lonely and sad, and those feelings completely sapped her motivation to take care of herself and her environment.  Then I think there was a self-reinforcing downward spiral:  isolation leads to no reason for dressing up.  Boredom leads to eating lots of junk food.  Junk food leads to more acne and weight gain.  Acne and weight gain lead to more isolation and low energy.  Then the environment starts to look like she is:  grungy, messy, unwashed and downright depressing.  If she doesn't care about how she looks anymore, then why on earth would she tidy her room, wash her bedding or throw out food waste?  I could judge the extremity of her negativity just by looking at the state of her room.  If she straightened up a bit, then things were a little better.  But when it looked like a bomb went off, she was not in a good place.  Literally.  It's as if the environment were a mirror of her mind.  So for her, a little imperfection like tricky skin or a nose with character meant she was ugly.  Yet the reality is that she's a beautiful woman.  She just can't see the truth because her thinking is distorted, and her self-talk is negative by default.

Another explanation is that since my stepdaughter wasn't doing anything, she lost status amongst her peers.  I bet it was very difficult to avoid well-intentioned questioning.  People tend to ask young adults age-appropriate questions, like "How's school?  Where do you go to college?  What's your major?  Do you live on campus?  Where are you working?  Do you have a boyfriend?  What are your plans for the summer?" and so on.  I could see how this line of questioning could set her off, because she was reminded of her situation (she dropped out of college, was unemployed, lived in her childhood bedroom and wasn't doing much more than watching TV).  Sometimes my husband would rescue her and reply, yes, she's a student, but that probably made her feel awkward.  To make matters worse, she just didn't really know how to chit-chat, such as by showing interest in other people and keeping conversations going.  That meant that people would ask her even more questions, trying to be nice and include her.  I could see why she avoided socializing.  For example, she missed out on her siblings' and cousins' graduation parties--they must have been too triggering because she hadn't graduated yet.  She has skipped various holiday parties with family, such as Thanksgivings and Christmases.  I bet that's pretty common for people who isolate, and I bet we'll be talking about that on these boards in coming weeks.  On the one hand, it might not be the worst thing to skip a family holiday celebration, if that means the avoidance of a meltdown.  But by the same token, missing out on family gatherings must feed the feelings of isolation and alienation even more.  I'm not sure what's worse.