First Thoughts

[citrusgrove]

I've been separated from my wife just under three years. I read about BPD for the first time yesterday. It was like someone had captured the heart of what I'd experienced with her. To be honest, I felt like it lifted a huge weight off my shoulders. I slept well last night for the first time in years. This sounds strange, but I'd been carrying round a lot of confusion and guilt, and I guess a sense that something just didn't quite add up to how things transpired. Of course, I've thought about ways I could have been a better spouse, and am not wanting to absolve myself of all responsibility, but there was something nagging at me. That she may have been experiencing this set of experiences and paradigms feels in some ways liberating to me. I wonder if anyone else has felt this?

As I'm only at the start of things, I'm still not sure if she'd meet the clinical diagnosis, or if she simply exhibits BPD traits. In one sense I guess it doesn't matter. Though I'm not against finding some way forward with her, it would have to take her to acknowledge some of the issues she has contributed to the situation. So far she has (as I know see is typical in PwBPD) entirely held me responsible. So my reading on the issue at the moment is in part to re-establish my own sense of reality and confidence, as well as trying to think through how to interact with her in regard to children and the other ways we still have to interact.

There's many things I feel like I'd want to reflect on. But I guess the two big things that stood out for me as "a-ha" moments in reading through the descriptions of the condition were:

First, the foundational idea of fear of abandonment (my spouse willingly said this is her over-riding paradigm, and told me once this governed how she saw our relationship) rooted in her childhood. I had already realized that this played an important role in things, so it was eye-opening to see it as actually the foundational part of a disorder, which then created lots of other things I had also experienced. It was I knew the first line of a song but just found a group of people who knew the whole piece.

Second, the way in which she seemed to turn on me, transforming me into a source of her problems and suggesting that we were growing apart. In particular, she started raising the issue of separation/divorce, when it was not on my radar. Yet in the end when I made the decision to leave - based on my own emotional exhaustion at being always seen as the problem and source of the distancing (a distancing that I always felt was in part the creation of her own fulfilling narrative)- she has blamed me entirely for the issues and now has a sense of righteous victimization because I was the one to move out. It's as if she cast me as the bad guy in a drama of her own making, and then has watched with some satisfaction as I have - in her mind - stepped into that role she forced on me. I'm not perfect and I can tell you my mistakes and own emotional issues. But I'm a friendly, kind of placid and quite self-effacing kind of person, so I've tended to believe her narrative and beat myself up a lot. I must have done something awful! As many of you know, that's a huge burden to carry, especially when it doesn't seem to cohere with the facts. It's like someone has a dark secret on you that even you don't know. It's been so helpful and relieving to read about the tendency to sabotage relationships - to push them toward the very thing the pwPBD fears as a control mechanism. My only regret now is that had I understood the paradigm she was in, I could/should have encouraged her more strongly to address her own therapeutic needs, and would have probably had more mental/emotional resilience to resist being brought down by her narrative. That's now harder from outside the relationship than it might have been from within - though I know there'd be no guarantee of success.

Anyway, there's my first post. Just a way of introducing myself and hope to find community and support here.

[ForeverDad]

  Welcome, though of course we wish it was under better circumstances.

I've been separated from my wife just under three years. I read about BPD for the first time yesterday... As I'm only at the start of things, I'm still not sure if she'd meet the clinical diagnosis, or if she simply exhibits BPD traits. In one sense I guess it doesn't matter.

You're right, to a large extent it doesn't matter except that insight is so helpful to you.  Your spouse, if seriously disordered, may not want to improve herself and her perceptions.  (The long-term outcome depends so much on the extent of how disordered the person is.  On this board - Separated/Divorcing - the relationships are generally more severely impacted and most tend to result in unwinding the relationship.)

In most cases the wise course is not to reveal your recent insights to your spouse, typically speaking of specific disorders can trigger overreactions.  Usually it is best to simply encourage your spouse to seek therapy and let the therapist choose how to introduce ways to improve.

So if at some point you do decide divorce is the only option left, be aware that most family courts and the professionals surrounding it "studiously avoid" mention of mental illness and personality disorders.  They don't deal with the "why" aspect, they deal with "what is" without seeking to "fix" anyone and proceed from there.

Many of us here are also parents and having children, though children are immense blessings, greatly complicates our relationships, whether they continue or end.

I recall my own marriage.  My spouse was becoming increasingly ill in her perceptions and distress.  I eventually thought that if we had a child then she would be happier seeing a child discover the joys of life.  How clueless I was, doubly so, since not only did adding children to my marriage make it more troubled but when the marriage failed then dealing with the custody and parenting issues was so complicated.

What are some concerns you have?  Has some level of distance apart resulted in reduced conflict?

[citrusgrove]

Thanks for your reply.

The separation has been good for my mental health on the whole. It comes with grief and uncertainty, of course.

My main question is how to interact with ehr in regard to the children. She "owns" the children and sets the time frame in which I can see them (which is a v small number of hours each week). We separated rather than divorced for financial reasons, but this means there's no custody arrangement. I think I under-estimated how difficult it would be to work with her on this.

I think she is acting on presumption that she holds the entire moral high ground, and that she gets to chose when and how I see the children. I can see that this is probably part of the BPD - the need to see oneself as the innocent victim, and the elevation of abandonment to a grave moral failing that, in her mind dissolves my parental role. Indeed, she tended to narrate the situation we were in as me abandoning her and the children (thus projecting her fear of abandonment into a perception that I was also neglecting the children - making them a proxy for her own anxieties), so I suspect that having now had this confirming prophecy fulfilled in her mind (by me leaving) she sees her role as to build a self-sufficient unit with her and the kids, with me excluded.

In this sense it feels like she treats me as if I was an actual physical or emotional danger to the children or her -- as if I can't be trusted or as if I must pay some kind of penalty for my actions by not having access to the children. Some of her family and friends confirm this feeling by refusing to be in house when I'm there - or via her telling me I cannot be in house if they arrive. As if I'm unclean.

I can see through my new reading that the BPD makes "abandonment" the gravest of all sins and thus explains why she might feel that me leaving (without any self-perception of her role in precipitating this situation) was, in her mind, a kind of moral failing that leads to a sense that I am deeply flawed and that I have in some sense surrendered my rights and access to the children.

I really don't want to get an attorney involved. And I'm still in some sense trying to honor my marriage vows by giving as much support as I can (and as she allows). I'm 100% the financial provider, and they all still live in our house. I'd still be open to reconciliation, but I can see it would have to involve her being willing to work on her issues, as well as me on mine.  I can see that without her acknowledging the problems, though, some kind of legal settlement might me needed. In the end it's not healthy for the children for her to create this reality about me.

[ForeverDad]

My main question is how to interact with her in regard to the children. She "owns" the children and sets the time frame in which I can see them (which is a v small number of hours each week). We separated rather than divorced for financial reasons, but this means there's no custody arrangement. I think I under-estimated how difficult it would be to work with her on this.

I think she is acting on presumption that she holds the entire moral high ground, and that she gets to chose when and how I see the children.

She sees herself as the Authority in the family, with the right to dictate how much you see your children.  Obviously, her skewed perceptions and perspective as all-powerful mother were much deeper than you had thought.  Have you pondered a Legal Separation (LS) wherein family court can and does act as The Real Authority to set common sense (or at least "less bad") custody and parenting schedule?

Don't misunderstand, I'm not necessarily advising LS.  My lawyer had been in practice for nearly two decades when I hired him and he stated he had only done two LS - neither involved children or conflict - because they merely wanted health insurance to continue.  He advised me not to try that since once I had that then I'd probably realize I still needed to divorce and doing the legal process twice would be twice as expensive.

Like you I am very pro-marriage but I was facing being blocked from parenting my child and the only way forward was to get something decent from the Real Authority, family court.

I really don't want to get an attorney involved. And I'm still in some sense trying to honor my marriage vows by giving as much support as I can (and as she allows).

you've tried your best to work with her, even from a distance.  It hasn't worked.  Without meaningful long-term therapy - which she will likely refuse -  It is time for you to reorder your priorities.

In serious matters such as with major but dysfunctional family matters you need to remember you are the reasonably normal adult.

Top priority is to take care of You.  As they say at the start of every airline flight, "In an emergency, put on your oxygen mask first before helping others.  You can't help anyone if you've become incapacitated."

Second priority is to care both short term and long term for your Children and their welfare.  As minors, they're not developed enough to make adult choices or decisions.  It is best to be as involved as much as possible in their care and the decision making since your spouse's judgment and behavior cannot always be trusted.

If there is any room left, then consider your spouse or ex-spouse.  You can't live your disordered spouse's life nor risk putting your spouse ahead of you or your children.  Sorry.

You had limited parenting for three years.  It will be a real challenge to get this corrected.  Depending on your state's policies and guidelines, you might get up to 50% time, or only alternate weekends and maybe time in between.

At the least you ought to interview or seek consultations with a few local family law attorneys and explore your options.  (This is totally private and confidential, do not share any of this with your spouse or she may try to sabotage you.)  They will know your state's laws and the local family court.  Listen to their recommendations, cautions and possible strategies.  Ask if they would suggest additional lawyers to consider before you decide on which would best represent you.

[citrusgrove]

Thanks for reply.

I have thought about legal separation. I wasn't convinced it would help with e.g. health insurance, as it seems health insurers now often state it as a reason to deny coverage. Also,  that it was basically ending the marriage without the chance of either of us remarrying. And it would involve all the same stress and expense of divorce.

You are right about seeing herself as the sole Authority figure. I'm still trying to figure out how/where this attitude comes from in the pwBPD paradigm. It certainly heightened at same time as the abandonment narrative started to emerge, which was at the time of our third child's birth. I feel this was the key turning point. It felt to me like she used me to get the family she wanted, and the family was going to be the way in which she repaired the abandonment she experienced In this sense I was replaced with the children (rather than e.g. another romantic partner: as far as I know there is none). At the same time, she also sort of extended her own fears of abandonment to the children - so judged me on behalf of both her and them (which seemed like a way to amplify her claims that I was abandoning/neglecting - i.e. not just her but everyone!)

This abandonment claim then created/exagerated the control paradigm. This went along the lines of: you're not there for me, you're not there for the children, you're make mistakes that I have to cover (which is a sign you're not there for me as you're not trying hard), so I better take charge. And the more she did that, the more disempowering and nervous I got as any time I tried to do something, it was wrong. So it became self-fulfilling prophecy.

The thing is, I think she is a good mother, the children are happy, and I really don't want to inject instability into their lives through some kind of custody struggle. I don't want to make them a prize to be won. Also, realistically, I don't have the resources to have them 50% of the time,  while working  200% of the time to finance our situation and living in small space. So I'm not really looking for a 50-50 split, but I do want more integration with their lives.

My personality tends to let things lie. But I know that they need me too, and it's in their interests for that to happen (which would be the case even if there were no mental health issues involved, but is certainly so if there are).

 

[ForeverDad]

The thing is, I think she is a good mother, the children are happy, and I really don't want to inject instability into their lives through some kind of custody struggle.

I suspect you haven't sought counseling to examine your own life and perceptions... and why you feel a woman, your spouse, who speaks poorly to/of you, who surely maligns you to the children (whether subtly or not so subtly), why you consider her to be a good mother.

Yes, she feeds them, puts clothes on them, etc.  But she is limiting them from the freedom to spend more time with their father?  Does she 'allow' overnights with you?  Do they know your limited visits are her will and not your choice?  Is the home environment healthy and functional, or rather, to some extent unhealthy and dysfunctional?  What do you think?  The kids are children, minors, what do they know is normal or not if they haven't experienced differently?

These questions may seem to come out of left field, but we all here have previously had to look at ourselves and question what we've accepted and asked ourselves to objectively ponder what is normal.

[Gerda]

The thing is, I think she is a good mother, the children are happy, and I really don't want to inject instability into their lives through some kind of custody struggle. I don't want to make them a prize to be won. Also, realistically, I don't have the resources to have them 50% of the time,  while working  200% of the time to finance our situation and living in small space. So I'm not really looking for a 50-50 split, but I do want more integration with their lives.

Speaking as someone who has a mom with undiagnosed BPD, and whose dad just sort of stood by and let her do almost all the parenting, please read up on the effects of having a mother with BPD on children. There are lots of books on the topic out there, many of which I have read as part of going through years of therapy to get over the damaging effects of my mom's parenting.

I didn't see anywhere where you mentioned how old your children are, but if they are still young, it may seem that she's a great mom. BPD moms love it when their children are young and helpless and dependent on them. Things get bad when they reach adolescence and start to want more independence. Then the BPD mom sees that as an abandonment and start sabotaging them. They also have a tendency to "parentify" their children and use them for emotional support.

Please try to have as much involvement in your children's lives as possible. They need sane, stable adults in their lives to compensate for having a mother with a serious mental disorder. It will save them thousands of dollars in therapy later.