Never moved on - surviving well but not thriving

[YamYam69]

Hi. Recently discovered you all!  My first, longest and best/worst relationship was with someone with (I believe) undiagnosed BPD and a victim/martyrdom complex. She and I had met at school and were together until our early 30s. After initial bliss, I had a growing sense that something was wrong (looking back, it's blatantly obvious; I was treading on eggshells and often suffering appalling verbal abuse as well as gaslighting and intense drama every day) so I ended the relationship. She quickly went on to a new 6-year relationship which I hear was toxic, and since then seems to have given up on men and reattached herself to her (terribly dysfunctional) family of birth.

I have struggled to move forward at all - I find it incredibly hard either to make friends or find girlfriends. I consider myself very mentally healthy (I'm positive, independent, resilient, happy and successful) but people who know me well tend to say I'm just too different to anyone else for anyone to relate to - i.e. no one seems to 'get' me. So over time I ended up back in a friendship with my ex (initiated by her) really just because it's a hard to find anyone else I have anything in common with and I was terribly lonely. We'd had a break of 6 years during her relationship so I'd thought it was OK (consistent, level, not abusive or particularly manipulative) but she recently referred to it as a 'relationship' which alarmed me. I don't consider it a relationship in a romantic sense (there's never been any kind of intimacy since we split up, and there never was any emotional support given to me because she was simply not capable of giving that even when we were together: she would get extremely angry if I displayed emotion or even aired a dilemma with her, often telling me to kill myself to "put us all out of our misery", so I felt obliged to appear emotionless - which I described as a "cardboard cut-out of a man").

I am certain that I don't want to be single anymore, and that I don't want to and can't be with her - but given how inordinately hard I see to find it to meet and connect with new people I wonder whether I was somehow permanently (so far) damaged by her or whether I was and still am as much the problem as she was. Throughout our relationship I was always calm - I never returned any abuse, lost my temper or even raised my voice. I've tried counseling a few times and always seem to get a message along the lines of "you're wasting your money here - you're mentally healthy and most people would give anything to have your life". But my life is single for years on end, childless and lonely with not even any surviving family. I enjoy it, but it's less than I want it to be because I feel I lack something (I don't know what) that would enable me to connect with others. I can't figure out whether I lost whatever it was to my ex or whether I never had it.

[HoratioX]

You're in a tough situation, and I encourage you to keep your positive attitude. That will help you get through it and help answer your questions about yourself. I'd also recommend talking with a therapist, not because I think anything is wrong with you but because a professional can often offer insight that amateurs -- even ones who've been through similar situations -- might not. You sound thoughtful and intelligent, and I suspect would take it all the right way hearing from a professional.

Okay, now a few things.

First off, I would stay away from anyone who tells me to kill myself. If someone is joking -- and we know that for certain -- then it may not be a problem. But if someone actually means it or even if they don't but say it in anger, that's a huge problem. That's a person who is both toxic beyond the pale and who clearly has their own serious issues for not recognizing their own problems. Either way, such a person can be destructive.

Second, there is nothing necessarily wrong with anyone if they can't find someone they're compatible with. First off, there are many, many single people, and many, many of them are perfectly normal, healthy people. And if someone does have some issues to work on, a therapist can help them to figure out how to be healthier,

Either way, a relationship is something that requires a lot of work unless you're so casual or uncaring about it, you're the toxic person. Some people can stay in relationships that aren't fulfilling simply because they're either afraid to be alone or because they can treat it like a business relationship and little more. To me, that's not a true romantic relationship -- I'd actually consider it rather toxic, if in a passive way -- and a person is better off being single if they're looking for a truly healthy one.

Third, finding someone you're compatible with can take a lot of time. My observation is the more intelligent a person is, the harder it is to find a compatible partner. That's because in addition to being physically attracted, there has to be an intellectual connection. And let's face it, there are simply far more average people than not. So, average people will likely find a partner faster and easier. If you're intelligent -- and it sounds like you are -- it may take longer.

Finally, some additional things to consider. Where are you looking? How are you meeting people? Are you living in a place where there are fewer choices?  Are you meeting people who are physically compatible? For instance, if you live in a part of the country where most people are overweight, do you find that attractive? Would you fare better somewhere where people are in better shape? Or vice versa? Are you tall and only find tall people attractive? Or would you be better off where people are more average sized? And so on.

But I'd reiterate you should be very, very careful around someone who exhibits the toxicity you describe. If you think a friendship is possible, maybe it is, but my observation about people with BPD is they both lack mental and emotionally stability and do not honor boundaries. Someone like that who says they just want to be friends can quickly shift. And if they have a profound mental illness or personality disorder like BPD, they may see and experience reality quite differently than it is. That means they can end up accusing you of things you didn't do down the road. Do you want to risk that?

Whatever you do, good luck, and remember that there's nothing wrong with being single if that is your choice.

[YamYam69]

Thanks for the reply.
I think the friendship is workable simply because I now know much more about, and can maintain, boundaries - which I didn't so much when I was in the relationship (I'm highly empathic, so tended to take her vastly overwrought emotions as being my problem). It's difficult (draining) though: she is difficult due to the ongoing drama. But now I know it's not my problem and I keep up 'walls' and try to take the good bits. I accept the point though that there's some element of danger in dealing with anyone so unstable.

I've been single for a very long time, and fairly happy being so, but I've grown tired of my by-default bachelor life and do now seek a connection - but don't know how to do that and can't work out whether that's a personality-type issue (the postulated damage I referred to in the original post), a skills issue or a circumstances issue. I do know that, on the face of it, I'm exceptionally eligible and that I like myself.
I live in the outer suburbs of a very large urban area, densely populated. So that should be ripe with potential although it's a nice enclave of a generally down-at-heel town, so perhaps the socioeconomic profile of my 'neighbours' isn't right! I've been hugely tempted to move to a rural area or the coast for a better life but I know that would be too isolating and would further limit my options.
I don't go anywhere specifically to meet people - I just go about my ordinary life, but that does include bars and cafes as well as the grocery store etc (I'm not someone who does much online: I get out and about, like meeting people despite introversion, and speak to everyone I meet). I meet far fewer people than I used to though because I no longer work - I took very early retirement a few years ago because I got very frustrated with 'rust out' at work (underworked, overpaid!) and commuting.
I have tried therapy repeatedly, but that's been a struggle as I suggested in the original post - I seem to get told that I'm trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

[HoratioX]

Sure, and it sounds like you're doing reasonably well on your own.

I'd say the boundaries issue isn't so much you as it is her. You're recognizing that in the past keeping boundaries has been an issue. You're trying to do something about that. If she has BPD (or similar like anxiety or CPTSD), then I can all but guarantee that she does not respect and/or understand boundaries. You may be thinking right now that's not a problem so long as you do. I'd argue that isn't likely the case.

For instance, my ex with BPD (or anxiety or CPTSD, depending on which therapist was diagnosing her) would invariably throw herself at me sexually.  And as you've probably experienced or have heard from others, sex with someone like that can be incredible (and was) because, as with my ex, there would be great enthusiasm and no inhibitions.  That's a pretty potent combination to turn down, even among the strong willed.

When the times comes and she chooses to cross the friend boundary, you might not be thinking as resolutely. That certainly was a weak point of mine until she just got me to a point where my usual resolve -- and I am a pretty strong person in that regard in most situations -- kicked back in. I broke it off, went no contact (even though she reached out to me multiple times), and have been healthier and happier in that respect ever since.

In terms of meeting people, that's tricky. I find bars and the like terrible places to meet people. The problems with them are multiple, but the biggest issue is that when you go somewhere that people want and expect to meet others, you're probably less likely to find someone of quality. That's not a slam. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I know couples who met in a bar and later married. What I'm saying is goes back to that average thing in the last post. Average people probably have the easiest time meeting someone in a bar because it's filled with average people looking for an average partner.

Now, keep in mind, I'm not using average necessarily in the looks department. There are very good looking average people. I'm talking about what they want, how they dress, what their hopes and dreams are, etc. They're looking for some version of themselves and the odds are better they're going to find one.

If you're someone who is intelligent, sensitive, artistic, etc., you might have a harder time. You're not average. Maybe you'd be better off going to places where people who share your attitudes and expectations might be. Maybe take a class at a university for fun. Maybe join up with a book club or take an exercise group. Do something where you can socialize but while you're also doing something you personally enjoy.

Lastly, I'll point out something that I've personally experienced. I'm never more attractive to women than when I'm already in a relationship. I don't know what it is. Perhaps we give off hormones. Or maybe we seem more relaxed and, therefore, approachable. But when I'm in a relationship, women flirt with me or even hit on me when I'm alone and minding my own business. And I'm not talking about overt things. I mean just walking down the street and getting a purposeful smile. But when I'm single? Nothing or almost nothing. Totally different response. I'm the one who has to make overtures.

That means when I'm single, I have to do the work. I can't let nature or biology do it for me. So, if you're not out there in a friendly and non-offputting way approaching women, you might not get that many results.

Lastly, I'll say there's no harm in making the effort. If you see a woman you're interested in but don't make an effort, you're just as bad off as if you did make the effort and she turned you down. But wait, some might say, if she turns you down, isn't that humiliating? Doesn't that hurt? It's only as humiliating and hurtful as we let it be. Don't take things so seriously. A "no" isn't an indictment. It's not the scarlet letter. Women can be interested and still say no. They can be having a bad day. They can be nuts. They can say no not because there's anything wrong with us but we're just not their type. If you don't try, though, you never know. And that's just as bad as being told no.

I say this because you said you've been single for a long time. If you're happy with that -- as I currently am -- then it's fine. If not, then perhaps consider doing more to change that. If you do, and if you treat it lightly and without expectation, that might make you less inclined to be with someone toxic, friend or not.

[YamYam69]

Hello again, and thanks.
Regarding boundaries, I think the position was that I always knew about them and therefore I believe I always respected everyone's boundaries. (Too much so, probably - I'll come back to that.) I think my problem with boundaries in the relationship was that it did not occur to me, in my youth, that I had any right to have boundaries (or any right to state what they were) - that was an upbringing issue (very strict old-fashioned parents who, no doubt doing their best as parents do, never allowed me to know them as people at all yet resisted my growing independence at every turn). I now know that I do, and I enforce that right.
Re my ex, I believe she was and still largely is oblivious to boundaries - I think she sees relationships (of all kinds) as mergers, and therefore she entirely disregarded my boundaries and allows others such as her family of birth to walk all over her. She still disregards my boundaries, constantly pushing and probing for weaknesses (yes, it is exhausting). I used to allow her through, not knowing any better, but now I resist her and thereby incur her wrath, guilt-tripping, shaming, mockery, insults, tantrums, misandry, suicide threats, projection of mental illness etc. Now I let it bounce off me: I know her emotions, thoughts and feelings are hers and, despite her protests to the contrary, not my problem - and that they're the result of mental illness she didn't choose to suffer from. I show her compassion and offer advice where I can, but don't get down in her deep hole anymore. I accept that this is not a satisfactory position, and that there's some ongoing threat, but I've rationalized it as being the least bad I can manage for the time being because of the absence of mentally healthier individuals in my life. I also am reluctant to abandon anyone, no matter how damaged or toxic I may think they are. Perhaps I am loyal to a fault.

As to meeting people, I agree re bars etc. I don't go to those with any agenda - I just enjoy going so I do. I was merely seeking to illustrate that I'm not a stay-at-home digital/solitary kind of person. I've never met anyone substantially in any bar etc (as far as I can recall I've never approached anyone in a bar or cafe), and I accept your points about 'average' and know they were meant kindly and not as a slur on anyone's 'value'.

The issue has always been where do the people go who will relate to me?
I've tried the university thing - in fact I've been back to university 4 times, totalling well over a decade of part-time study, as a mature student - but never met anyone I built up any rapport with. I don't really know why that is: I just didn't feel I had anything in common with any of my fellow students except the course itself. Part of the problem, perhaps, was that I was an exceptionally high achiever who garnered unsolicited high praise from lecturers - which might have annoyed my fellow students and alienated me from them. (I found the same problem at work, and there I deliberately severely blunted my performance to try to avoid irritating senior colleagues who complained that I was "always too far out in front", "thinking too quickly", "trying to prove you're clever" etc.).
I have tried thinking of activities I can do with others, and won't give up on that. I struggle, though, with socializing in a group: I'm very happy socially with just one other person, and also very happy standing up and speaking in front of or leading a group of any size, but I can never figure out how to handle being sociable within and as part of an unstructured group (people tend to say that I go silent and invisible, which is probably true - I can't think of anything to say so I just listen and people forget I was there).

I agree re attractiveness and being in a couple. Another female friend of mine tells me that's because women just find attached men more attractive than unattached ones. That has definitely been my experience.
I am undoubtedly reticent with approaches (to anyone, not just attractive women). That may come back to my over-awareness of perceived boundaries: I feel guilty, embarrassed and arrogant that I'm crossing them by seeking to introduce myself into someone's life uninvited. I don't think that's a symptom of low self-esteem - I really like myself and wouldn't want to be anyone else - but rather I think it's the result of a lifetime of finding that the fact that I like myself doesn't mean anyone else will like me (i.e. I know my value to me, but struggle to get anyone to see that I have any value to them). Kind people say this is because I am "misunderstood"; my take on it is that I make a very poor (in practice, usually no) first impression - people warm up to me over months or years of knowing me (and then attach extremely tightly to me: the ultimate slow burn). (Again, the same at work: I struggled to get through interviews but then employers found I was annoyingly good at a job they hadn't been convinced I was capable of doing at all. Most people, I think, over-promise and under-achieve. I'm the opposite.)