Should I Stay or Should I Go

[Stuck@37]

Before you respond with, "no one can make that decision for you", or "you have to set your own limits" - I know. Ironically (or coincidentally) I am a marriage & family therapist. I know how I got here, I know what my childhood wounds are that keep me here, and have kept me here. I am in therapy myself, and have been for many years. But no amount of school, knowledge, lived experience could help me through this time in my relationship, and you all know so much more than I ever could. I am asking for true opinions and guidance from people who have tried, and tried, and tried again to figure this out and have a life with their partner. Because I want to keep trying right now, but I'm losing the battle with myself. He constantly threatens divorce, and I'm considering taking him up on it. But for now, I want to figure out if I have ANY more room to grow here and any more options to exhaust before I make that difficult choice.

Now that I've established I am currently choosing to be in a marriage with an incredible man with unconventional BPD, despite major financial infidelity, substance abuse, lying, emotional/psychological abuse, physical intimidation, constant conflict and crises, rage etc., please also understand that this man is brilliant, loving, caring, attentive, hilarious, vulnerable, and good-hearted. We have been together for 18 years and both love each other greatly. Like a true rollercoaster, he has made me feel more loved and seen than anyone ever has, and more degraded and exhausted than anyone ever has. I know I am deserving of everything, and so is he. I've only recently gotten out of blaming myself for all of our problems and setting firm boundaries. I'm currently reading Stop Walking on Eggshells and so grateful I found it. It's literally day one though.

I am turning 37. The last few years, of course, my obgyn has urged me to consider final options if I'd like to have children biologically, as I've put off having children as long as I possibly can while hoping and praying my husband improves and focusing on myself, my career as much as possible. Truly just escaping the madness and avoiding without realizing, of course leading to so much perceived abandonment and rejection. He's been in therapy and sober for over a year (opioids). He's taken huge steps, and yet there always seems to be a major, major crisis that blows everything up again and I turn into a punching bag (not literally).

My family is aware of most of the details that have occurred, as things have gotten "scary" at times over the last few years especially as his addiction came to light, and my therapist encouraged me to expand my support system by being honest with others. Punching holes in walls, driving recklessly, threatening to leave me and take everything from me, threatening physical violence on others, and intense emotional/psychological abuse that contributed to me losing my period and having serious GI problems winding up in the hospital several times.

The support I have that is unconditional is truly limited, and my husband's behavior is starting to affect my other relationships. He's blown up on my mother, stepfather, sister, brother in law, sister in law, best friend.. which has led to them questioning my judgement and leaving me feeling like I have a hard choice to make. I don't want to make this choice based on others judgement, but what other people can see that I may not. It's a tough pill to swallow from those that love me, but I can't blame them. I can only respect their boundaries for now and keep my own - with everyone, which is getting tricky.

Here's where I hope you all can offer insight. If I have a child with this man I love so deeply, I fear the obvious risks. If I leave, I lose the option of having a family with him, possibly at all, and experiencing all the good he is capable of. We all know the risks of staying.

Maybe I can go to a therapy session with him, but that's a whole other story. He's protective of his therapy sessions, understandably. We tried couples therapy and he found every reason in the book to disqualify the therapist, another male, and discredit the notion it would be beneficial. Trust me, I offered so many options and accommodations, including him choosing the therapist, day, time, location, price, etc. Maybe I can revisit this option again, but I honestly expect the same outcome.

Clearly I'm needing validation and support from you all who have been through this, and especially from those who are choosing to stay for now. I welcome all kinds of support and I'm grateful for this space.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MindfulBreath]

OMG I literally started crying while reading your post because we are living an almost identical life. I'm a tiny bit older than you (39) and my husband used to be majorly dependent on alcohol and is currently only somewhat balanced when regularly using weed.

He got into a massive fight with my best friend, who also happens to be my SIL, and refuses to even open the door to reconciliation (she has reached out to him, despite him being the one with the majority of the bad behavior). I am so isolated because he's constantly picking fights with various people in our social circle... and so we never get invited anywhere. He seems happiest when it's just me and him, even if we are not speaking to each other, cloistered in different rooms.

We only got married recently - but have been together for 5 years. His bad behavior has been going on forever, but I would let it go every time he would go back to therapy after a particularly bad split and every time he would cry and tell me the horror stories of his childhood and how I am the only person who hasn't betrayed him (yes, his childhood was AWFUL and I really feel for him - although he also likes to tell me that I don't have any compassion).

To say that I feel trapped is an understatement - both because I know it would completely destroy him if I left (he can't even sleep if I ever travel without him... not an exaggeration), but also because I am so ashamed that I made a commitment to get married and didn't really evaluate all of the mega red flags and what my life would look like after going through with it. And to be honest, even though I hate this part of myself, I do care what people think - and I'm so ashamed to even think about breaking up. From the outside, we have a beautiful life and we are living the dream of many... and the good times are good. Truly good. But the bad times are AWFUL. He is like a different person and the things that come out of his mouth are often unforgivable and certainly unforgettable.

But back to your main point - ever since we got married, it feels like a new person each day is asking me or us when we are having a baby. The biological clock is super real. I have never been completely driven to be a mother - especially a single mother. And he already has a son who is not in his life (because his ex, who I suspect also has some serious mental health issues, completely cut him off). So I don't know what to do. He really wants a kid with me. But the thought of mothering both the child and his "bottomless pit of need" (from the book Walking on Eggshells) is terrifying to me. It is already so hard.

I also feel like I am between a rock and a hard place. I feel so STUPID when he splits. Like, why did I think the progress could stick? (He also canceled a male couples therapist who challenged him, btw). When he's good, I feel like I have amnesia. I have hope. And then it is dashed against the rocks as the cycle continues. The cycle will go on forever - I know that the only thing I can change is myself. I put up my boundaries and stick to them. I sometimes succeed at not responding to his rage with rage. And through it all, I feel the possibility of emotional intimacy slipping further and further away, even when he's good and putting me on a pedestal, doing so much for me, caring for me, and essentially trying to make up for all the other bad PLEASE READ.

If I were 29, not 39, things would be different. It's so hard, man. I really feel your pain. Know you are not alone. And let me know if you'd like to talk more. I could really also use a friend in this PLEASE READty situation!!!!

[Stuck@37]

I read the first line of your reply and also broke into tears. Just to have someone else who understands my situation, or even how I'm feeling right now, is an incredible gift I didn't know I had access to until right now. Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply.

I would definitely like to speak more to you - it sounds like we both need people to talk to who get how complex and nuanced this issue is. I don't have any social media and I don't know what the rules are here exactly about sharing personal information, but this is definitely not the most convenient way to communicate . If you have any ideas, I'm open!

It sounds like our partners might have similar ideas about what our role is in their life and what we are obligated to provide to them (unconditional, unwavering support despite impulsive and horribly detrimental decision-making at times and verbal emotional abuse that leaves a wave of destruction). I don't know about you, but this has led me to sacrifice so much throughout my life, including having children, it might seem now. I have some resentment about this, but I also understand and accept that my choices have led me here, not him. It's exhausting and all I can think about some days is "I don't deserve this, I deserve better, I deserve to know where I stand at all times and feel secure in my relationship" but he does too.. and unfortunately what he thinks he needs in order to feel secure is contradictory to what I know is in my best interest sometimes (such as taking space, leaving an argument, asking for a brief separation, etc.). Yesterday he actually filled out divorce papers, and it feels horribly manipulative. I can't help but "check out" and dissociate or totally disengage sometimes out of my own trauma responses.

I'm curious how your husband's relationship is with his child and if you see a difference in his interactions there that gives you any hope.

I know my husband would be an amazing father. But I worry horribly about him attaching to a child and becoming emotionally dependent on them. That was literally my role with my own father growing up (yes I married my father) and I'm scared to repeat that cycle (although I like to think I turned out pretty okay, all things considered). And yes, I also agree that I fear taking on the entire mental/emotional load of parenting, as I imagine having to parent TWO children (for context, I can BARELY get myself through this currently).

I know you can relate. Please let me know if there's a way to connect more directly that is comfortable.

[kells76]

Hi Stuck@37, just adding my welcome to MindfulBreath's welcome, too  

We really get here that these are some of the most difficult relationships, and that people choose to stay with their partners for any number of reasons that can be personal and valid.

Am I tracking with you that your H is not diagnosed?

Being together for nearly two decades is significant. Did you notice many of the same traits and behaviors back then, or have they become more apparent over time?

I also feel like I am between a rock and a hard place. I feel so STUPID when he splits. Like, why did I think the progress could stick? (He also canceled a male couples therapist who challenged him, btw). When he's good, I feel like I have amnesia. I have hope. And then it is dashed against the rocks as the cycle continues. The cycle will go on forever - I know that the only thing I can change is myself. I put up my boundaries and stick to them. I sometimes succeed at not responding to his rage with rage. And through it all, I feel the possibility of emotional intimacy slipping further and further away, even when he's good and putting me on a pedestal, doing so much for me, caring for me, and essentially trying to make up for all the other bad PLEASE READ.

That would be so painful -- to watch it slipping through your hands. It does sound like your experience is similar to what MindfulBreath brought up there.

Were there times in your marriage where it seemed like things were "mostly normal" (within the broad range of normal)?

I'm curious if you've ever grieved the loss of the marriage you so wanted for you and him. I've often heard that BPD relationships are "emotional special needs" relationships, where the partner's emotional limitations are significant and can be permanent. It might be like if a partner had a sudden accident and started needing to use a wheelchair -- there is a big limitation in your partner's baseline abilities, and it is a real loss, and there may need to be painful grieving for losing what could have been for you two.

...

While bpdfamily.com does have a private message function (available after a certain number of posts, I think), one of our strengths is the public yet anonymous "support group" format. So many members here are living what you're living, and sharing our struggles all together "out front" can bring strength to the one sharing and education to those listening and "lurking".

This is not easy stuff at all. So glad we can be here for you as you process where you're finding yourself. Keep filling us in on your story, whenever works best for you;

kells76

[kells76]

One more thought before I forget:

I may have missed if you mentioned this -- has your H said he wants kids?

[Stuck@37]

Thank you for your time in responding to this.

YES - he has wanted children for a long time with me, but I noticed these patterns early on, and only recently have put the pieces together that he has BDP and traits of NPD as well. He is undiagnosed formally, but as a LMFT I can't unsee the extreme parallels and validation I've gotten from reading and applying information to my situation.

So, to answer your question, yes I've always noticed his outbursts, impulsivity, rage, emptiness, etc. but it only became highly exacerbated when he stopped using opioids about one year ago. The process of him becoming sober has been long and grueling, as you can imagine.

You're absolutely right - I haven't taken the time to properly grieve the loss of relationship and future I had hoped for; instead, I've been desperately trying to get him to see his issues and address them. Some of this has worked over time, but I can see his shame bubble up often and then lash outs occur. It's not working, obviously, so I need to change course.

I also think you're right that a community is what I need. The fact that I keep returning to this message board is showing me that, more than ever.

Thank you so much. All of this insight and connection is so deeply needed and appreciated during such a tumultuous and conflict-ridden portion of our relationship while I try to disentangle everything.

[MindfulBreath]

Sent you a message,  @Stuck@37 

[CC43]

Hi ladies,

You pose some really tough questions. Would you consider freezing your eggs?  That might buy you some time. However, you might ask yourself what you really want. Do you want a baby more than anything?  Do you want a baby with your current husband more than anything?  Do you want to be with your husband more than anything?  If you’re not sure of the answers, then what would need to happen for you to be sure?  I know it’s painful to think through, but the bright side is that you do have choices. I hope you make the choices that are right for you. I’d advise to think about it and be sure to make your choices when you are calm and rested, and full of self-love, and not in the heat of an argument or crisis. Doing nothing is also a choice, I just hope it’s a deliberate one.

[Stuck@37]

Hi ladies,

You pose some really tough questions. Would you consider freezing your eggs?  That might buy you some time. However, you might ask yourself what you really want. Do you want a baby more than anything?  Do you want a baby with your current husband more than anything?  Do you want to be with your husband more than anything?  If you’re not sure of the answers, then what would need to happen for you to be sure?  I know it’s painful to think through, but the bright side is that you do have choices. I hope you make the choices that are right for you. I’d advise to think about it and be sure to make your choices when you are calm and rested, and full of self-love, and not in the heat of an argument or crisis. Doing nothing is also a choice, I just hope it’s a deliberate one.

These are super helpful questions that have been swirling in my brain in no particular order or fashion whatsoever. So, thank you for putting it in terms that I can organize and digest. And, yes, I've considered freezing my eggs so many times, but it's expensive, out-of-pocket, and it's just not an option, unfortunately. I'd sooner adopt later down the line, which I've considered heavily.

Thanks so much for giving me those questions to think about. I am grateful.