Chores! Why is it always chores????

[314rabbit]

My BPD spouse will NOT do chores.

We have a home management app that we use, which I find very helpful for so many reasons. It tells us what needs to happen when, and who is meant to do it. Very simple and easy to use.

It asks me to do 3-6 chores a day, and anything I don't get done stays on the list until I do it, skip it, or ask for help on it.

Now here's the hard part for my dear spouse, it does the same for them.

They will not do it, skip it, or ask for help. In their words, they "avoid it because it hurts" and they "can't do their chores" unless I yell at them.to do them.

I've decided to not even look at their list, but today I checked because the house is getting filthy and the app told.me that my spouse hasn't lifted a finger in 6 days.

So I texted my spouse "hi baby, I'm concerned about your chores" which then proceeded to be a 2 hour long intense conversation about their emotions about chores, but no plans to do them. What tipped me over was when they felt we were done they said, "my podcast is talking about motivational interviewing, I think it would be helpful" which is what I had been doing for TWO HOURS. This devolved into a crazy argument about the chores and of course it's my fault for not being "understanding enough."

So we get home, and my spouse approaches the table to clear it and starts giving me flak for leaving junk mail on the table. It's nuts because they're essentially bitching about me leaving the table a mess, when they haven't cleared it in a week. I tell them essentially that, so my spouse yells at me and bangs around the house all mad and breaks my grandmother's mixing bowl (the yellow Pyrex one, from the complete set that I've cared for for years). They then proceed to scream and yell and throw themself in the snow without a coat and cry so loudly the whole neighborhood can hear.

I just watched to make sure they were safe, and got dressed to leave for the library while they threw a tantrum. I had chosen to stay silent while I left, so I was silent when they grabbed me, screamed at me, stood in the way of the car, etc.

We have repeated conversations about how I have time to sit on the couch and smoke weed because I do 2-3 chores a day, and they don't have time to do those things because they don't do that. They spend so much time being emotional that they can't do anything in a timely manner.

Did I mention that they are a janitor at a disability services agency? They clean the whole building in 2 hours three days a week. They claim that that is "entirely different" because they have a routine there. Why can't they have a routine at home? They're home more than 6 hours a week!

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[kells76]

Hey 314rabbit...

The frustration about "rules for you, not for me" is so real when BPD is involved. I hear you that you just want fairness, routine, and a clean house, and it must be difficult knowing that your spouse is actually capable of cleaning a building quickly and thoroughly and routinely!

If you could only pick one, would your highest concern be:

-I want my spouse to want to do chores/deal with doing chores, or

-I want the chores/tasks to be done

I'm also curious about how the app divides up chores. Do you enter a long list, and then the app randomly assigns an equal amount to each of you? Or do you each pick what you want on your list?

...

My husband's kids' mom has many traits of BPD. In the past she has said in emails that she "bends over backwards" to help the kids have a relationship with H. Currently we drive H's youngest to school 4 out of 5 days a week... from Mom's house. We pick up SD16 at Mom's because she can't/won't/doesn't (not sure how much the distinction matters) get SD16 to school on time.

That may be a more extreme example of how we get to pick whether our priority is the pwBPD engaging with doing the task, or the task getting done.

Not every situation will be the same. You  might prioritize finding ways in your home environment for your spouse to engage with the tasks (somehow) and find that to be more important than task completion.

In our case, we prioritized task completion (SD16 must get to school on time) even though the way it got done was unfair (it should be Mom's responsibility during Mom's time but it wasn't happening).

To be fair, our situation is different -- H and Mom are not married/partners and there is little to no communication any more, nor goals on our part to improve the relationship.

Maybe there are some tasks where completion is the priority (I think you've mentioned you have animals). Perhaps you can rearrange the app assignments to your own liking, so that you have the tasks where your goal is "this must be completed" (for safety reasons, etc). And maybe your spouse's list has the "nice to haves" (private spaces, dusting, secondary bathroom, non-critical yardwork, window washing...) where yes, sure, it does need to get done, but you won't be resentful if it doesn't get done, and no creature's life will be at risk. Kind of like -- the person who does more chores gets to be the person in charge of assignments.

I understand you may already be doing that, so my apologies if it's repeating your approach.

I just hear you on the frustration where you know that in many ways your pwBPD is a capable person, yet in key areas stuff is not happening... the resentment is real, and maybe that's a second thread to explore in this -- yes, it's about the chores, and we can troubleshoot there, and it's also about managing your frustration, resentment, and exhaustion.

None of this is easy...

[MindfulBreath]

What really stood out to me was that they are a janitor in their paid work. Beyond the BPD, I do understand their desire to not clean anymore when they get home because that's what they have to do at work. But perhaps they are incapable of expressing that to you because they haven't figured out the cause of their resistance.

Did they agree to the app and the division of labor? Maybe they would feel better if they felt like they had more control over their household responsibilities instead of leaving it to you or the app?

I also feel your pain in terms of the junk mail thing. My BPDh leaves empty cans and wrappers and bottles all over the house and then for some reason gets angry with me because I sometimes put dirty dishes next to the sink instead of in the sink.

What worked for us was hiring a cleaner. I'm not sure if that's in your budget, but it's definitely taken a huge load off for us to be able to rely on others.

However, the cleaners don't organize. If I want any organization done, I have to do it myself. And he fixes things. That is our division of labor. It works because we both know what we are good at and somehow manage not to give each other grief if things don't get organized or fixed in a timely manner.

Good luck!!

[314rabbit]

Thank you both for your replies.

I had a big thing typed up at one point but then the connection timed out

I mostly want just an attempt to be made. Maybe a 75% job most of the time. That's what I do. My spouse is a perfectionist and very rigid about how things ought to be done. Their opinions keep them from being quick about things, which lengthens the drudgery of it all.

Some things are all my spouses job, and they do fine at those things. Other things are all my job and I do fine at those. It's the back and forth ones that they struggle with. The app flips whose responsibility it is for a variety of things.

When we discuss the division of labor on the app, my spouse says that they feel it's fair. When it comes time for them to do those things, they don't want to do they won't. It's bizarre.

Tonight, I got really emotional about something that my spouse marked done that was clearly not done. My spouse, honestly, handled it pretty well. I got so out of whack that I had to say anything at all that I was pretty sidelined. The app was supposed to de-emotion the chores but I feel like it made it worse for me because of how outrageous the meltdowns regarding it are. It honestly is the only thing that has ever held them accountable to household tasks, and that's why it's so effective at throwing them over the deep end.

[314rabbit]

A few things that my last reply didn't have:

My spouse just got a med adjustment (again) and now, all of a sudden, isn't experiencing chronic suicidality. Major win for us, and it's being reflected in chores it seems.

I think sometimes my spouse thinks that me nagging them about chores is me trying to "help" which isn't the case. I think they think that way because whenever they start doing their chores, they start nagging me to do mine. It's just unnecessary.

The last few days have been great and fine, which is typical after we have an over the top fight about mopping. I'm worried that this is going to be short lived as it typically is, or that the med change will bring lasting change to the division of labor.

My spouse is very involved in the dividing of labor tasks, and agrees that they're fair. When I do more than my fair share of chores, it doesn't make it better because then they feel guilty and suicidal. When they're expected to do something, they refuse to do them and feel guilty and suicidal. So it really doesn't matter what we've set up, my spouse feels guilty and suicidal.

[CC43]

Hi,

The Catch 22 situation you describe happens with me and my non-BPD husband. He doesn’t want to do chores, but if I do them, he’s mad because he feels guilty. He doesn’t want to be reminded of his guilt.

At first I dealt with this by doing chores in secret, whenever he wasn’t around. But it felt very taxing and unfair. Then I got cleaners and paid for them myself. That reduced the tension considerably, and I’m happy because I like a clean house.

What’s BPD about your wife is threatening suicide when she doesn’t get her way. I don’t think there’s anything unique about chores, except that they are potentially a daily source of stress and conflict. Also there can be wide differences of opinion about what constitutes completion, generating potential for more disagreement. I’d say, divide and conquer according to your individual strengths and preferences, and outsource things you hate or that can be easily outsourced. I’d rather work a little overtime than scrub toilets and showers. 

[kells76]

Some things are all my spouses job, and they do fine at those things. Other things are all my job and I do fine at those. It's the back and forth ones that they struggle with. The app flips whose responsibility it is for a variety of things.

That makes a lot of sense to me -- a pwBPD might really struggle with unpredictability, loose structure, etc.

It is good to hear that when the tasks are assigned permanently, those go better for both of you. So your spouse is capable of following the app's instructions.

I'd be curious about your thoughts on these ideas from MindfulBreath and CC43 of hiring help for some areas:

What worked for us was hiring a cleaner. I'm not sure if that's in your budget, but it's definitely taken a huge load off for us to be able to rely on others.

However, the cleaners don't organize. If I want any organization done, I have to do it myself. And he fixes things. That is our division of labor. It works because we both know what we are good at and somehow manage not to give each other grief if things don't get organized or fixed in a timely manner.

At first I dealt with this by doing chores in secret, whenever he wasn’t around. But it felt very taxing and unfair. Then I got cleaners and paid for them myself. That reduced the tension considerably, and I’m happy because I like a clean house.

It would be an additional financial cost -- however that could offset or eliminate emotional/relational costs elsewhere.

I'm starting to realize that there are no free boundaries... they will be paid for somehow, but we get the choice about how we want to "pay" for our boundaries. We might "pay" for our boundaries with our time, energy, money, relational tension, etc.

In my example about driving the kids around, our desire is that the kids have safe and timely transportation. Not sure if it's an actual boundary, but maybe it's a limit: "I'm able to let safe drivers into the kids' lives. I do my best not to let the kids be driven by someone unsafe or untimely".

We pay for it with money (gas, car repair), time (many extra hours of driving), and energy (can't just sit at home and wait for the kids to be picked up at night, need to stay up and drive them).

In balance it is more than worth it for peace of mind, kids' safety, and extra time with the kids.

...

In your example, while hiring cleaners is one option, it may not be the only one. There may be other ways to shift the "costs" off of relational tension and emotional dysregulation, and on to another area. Shifting the costs onto hiring cleaners would be financial. Maybe there are other cost shifting options?

I think I remember you have animals -- is there a kid in the neighborhood who would want to volunteer to take on some of that, either for free (enjoying the experience / resume builder) or for lower cost? The cost there could be financial (paying the kid) and/or time/energy/relational (teaching the kid how to do things, forming a new relationship, interacting).

That may or may not be a good solution for your situation, but it could be an example of an alternative.

[CC43]

Hi,

Kells is onto something, regarding choices and tradeoffs.  As humas we have our own complex internal calculus when it comes to weighing priorities and tradeoffs.  For example, in the chore world, I probably value cleanliness over neatness/orderliness.  My husband is basically the opposite--he's "dirt blind," but he dislikes clutter.

In a family, we often have to make compromises, because arguing over every little thing we dislike gets tiring indeed.  When it comes to chores, I've come to accept a few things.  First, that I'm responsible for most of the chores in the household.  (I'd say that I'm responsible for the inside of the house, and my husband takes the lead on the outside, though I do a fair amount outside too.)  And second, the stepkids are going to be messy and dirty no matter what I do.  As I said before, to cope, I hired cleaners as one potential solution.  Another tactic that I've adopted is to basically designate certain rooms in the house that need to stay clean and tidy in my mind.  However, I've compromised when it comes to the kids' rooms, the garage, the mud room and the family rooms.  I just accept that they will be disorderly most of the time, and I basically keep some doors closed (literally and figuratively, in my mind).  Even so, I don't allow leftover food or spills to languish anywhere--that I can't tolerate.

Another coping tactic is to give yourselves a break from time to time.  For me, the kitchen feels like a war zone when the stepkids are around.  I have to run the dishwasher at least twice a day, sometimes three times, and guess how much help I get with dishes . . . . When I'm feeling overwhelmed, I tell myself, it's OK to have paper plates from time to time, or to order a pizza.  It's better to cut myself some slack before I lose my temper over messiness or chores.  Maybe you could save time by having groceries delivered to the house, or maybe try meal preparation kits.  There are probably hundreds of time- and energy-savers out there.  It all depends on your priorities and preferences.

Another thing I do is pay attention to routines and the actual timing of chores.  Certain chores lend themselves to strict routines; for instance I need to do heavy cleaning before the laundry, so I can wash the clothes I got dirty while cleaning, and afterwards I can tackle ironing.  I need to clean out/wipe down the fridge before going to the market, to make room for the fresh food and determine what I need to buy.  I have to empty the waste baskets before hauling trash to the dump.  But other chores are more flexible.  For the flexible chores, I'm very choosy about WHEN I do them.  I have a technique I call "picking the right day."  An example is fall leaf pick-up; whenever possible, I choose dry, sunny, calm days for this chore, to ensure I can get it done as quickly and efficiently as possible.  It's important to pick nice days rather than battling wet leaves in the freezing cold.  In addition, I try not to tackle any large tasks if I'm feeling too tired, sick or rushed.  Why make the task any worse than it has to be?  Over the years, I've coached my husband on this technique, and I think he sees the merits now.  I'll ask him, "Are you sure you want to tackle XYZ today?  It seems too rainy and cold, and you're still tired from yesterday.  Why don't you work on something easier until a better day comes along?"  This isn't procrastinating, but rather optimizing the schedule.  It's one reason that I will do only the bare minimum of chores after a long day at work--I'm too exhausted.  I'm most efficient with chores right after breakfast on the weekend, when I'm fed and rested.  Others might be night owls instead of morning larks and prefer to get their chores out of the way in the nighttime.  I'd say, focus on the timing that works best for you.

Finally, I have a method for tackling amorphous chores I dread.  I use the "Pomodoro Method," which you can research online.  Some chores just don't have clear finish lines, such as weeding or dusting.  That's when I set the timer and commit to working on something, uninterrupted, until the buzzer timer goes off.  You decide the time to dedicate; I'll typically do 30 or 45 minutes.  According to the Pomodoro Method, after the work interval, you get a short break (around 5 minutes), and then you set the timer again and repeat, for as many cycles as you choose.  The best part is that when the buzzer goes off, you're done.  You can tell yourself, you accomplished your time goal.  I'll even think of chores in terms of time, e.g. spend 45 minutes cleaning and organizing the closets, or washing the windows, or working on the tax return.  Good luck.