CODA meetings with BPDh

[LittleRedBarn]

My husband and I are trying to rebuild our relationship after living apart for 18 months. During that time, we have each developed interests outside the relationship, as we had become very isolated and enmeshed with one another. One of the things I have recently started doing is to  go to CODA meetings. I'm aware that I have strong people-pleasing and conflict-avoidance tendencies and I'm finding the group very supportive.

The problem is that my dBPDh hates the idea of me going to the group on my own. I think he is starting to accept that it is good for me, but he finds the idea of me going on my own very difficult, and wants to come to the meetings with me. He says me attending alone triggers his childhood feelings of rejection and abandonment and so I should let him come along too. There is a CODA mens' group that meets nearby that he could attend, but he is not interested in doing that.

I'm finding myself very wary of giving in to his request to come to the meetings with me, but I'm finding it hard to articulate to myself why I don't want him there. This is the nearest I can get to it:

i) I have a very unstable self-image and being in a group like CODA helps me in my journey of self-knowledge. Because I am co-dependent with him, I am likely to censor what I do and say in the group if he is there too. This is not his fault, it's to do with my own experiences in my family of origin. My objective is to strengthen myself so that I can be an equal partner in our marriage.

ii) I believe that it is important in any marriage to have safe places where we can talk about the problems in the relationship, outside of the relationship itself. We each have individual therapists that we can do this with, and also have at least one intimate friend each who we can talk to. CODA gives me an anonymous group as additional support. He already attends an online BPD men's group, and could join a different CODA group if he wanted to.

iii) Before his mental health crisis and subsequent hospitalization, he engaged in a lot of emotional and psychological abuse towards me. The worst of the anger and aggression has stopped since his treatment, and his therapist has advised me that he doesn't remember much of what happened when he was badly dysregulated. She has advised that I need to give him a 'clean slate', providing the behavior does not recur, and that I need to work on my own feelings of anger and betrayal in relation to his former behavior with my own therapist. The CODA group is another place where I can do this work, and it would be inappropriate for him to hear what I have to say.

I think these are good reasons for me to continue attending the group on my own, but I am plagued with guilt and doubt which is reinforced by my husband saying things like, "Why would you do this, when you know how much it is hurting me?"

Does anyone have any experience of attending CODA or Al-Anon meetings alongside a person with BPD? Are there any advantages to a couple attending these kinds of meetings together?

Any thoughts or feedback would be gratefully received!

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[Notwendy]

I don't have experience attending with a BPD spouse but I have spent time in 12 step CODA and ACA groups and don't think it would be helpful to bring your H along.

The purpose of these meetings is for your own emotional growth and for this to happen, you need to have a safe space to speak. I don't think you would feel comfortable doing this with your BPD H in attendance.

From the 12 step perspective- the statement "my H says going to meetings alone triggers his feelings of abandonment" is an example of co-dependency and poor boundaries. It's also something that working one on one with a sponsor can help with- in addition to meetings.

The first boundary is to put the emotions on each side of the fence. If someone is triggered- that is their feelings. Who has the trigger feelings- your H. Did you trigger him? No, he's feeling triggered.

If you bring him to meetings so he doesn't get triggered- whose feelings are you taking care of- his or yours? His- but that is not staying on your side of the fence. Trying to manage and caretake and people please is being co-dependent and this is why you are going to meetings - to work on that.

Now for your side of the fence. If you bring him to meetings because you are afraid/anxious of him being triggered- you are then managing your own feelings by managing his- and that's also an aspect of co-dependency but these are the behavior patterns you are trying to change your part in.

Change isn't always comfortable. The two of you are in a pattern of managing your own feelings by controlling the other person in a way. He manages his feelings of abandonment by controlling your going to meetings. You manage your fears of his reaction by bringing him or not going. While being co-dependent may feel self sacrificing, if you really look at what both are doing- it's more about soothing our own feelings than what is best for the other person.

What is actually best for the other person is learning to manage our own feelings better. It's in your H's best interest to learn to manage his own feelings better, but he won't have the opportunity to learn, if you keep doing it for him. Your job is to also learn to manage yours better- which is why you are going to meetings.

By going to CODA, you are starting to change your behavior - and he's now left alone for an hour or so. This is new for him. He's not comfortable and because of your tendency to be uncomfortable when he is - you feel uncomfortable too. But this is an opportunity for change if you work through this.

From my own experience in 12 step groups, I think the program is effective for family members of pwBPD if they do the work of the program. I don't think it's effective specifically with BPD. It's not therapy for BPD. It won't help him to be there.

Your reasons for being in the group are for your own growth. I think it would be difficult to share feelings with your H in attendance. He's probably fearful of things like- you will talk about him, you will then leave him, but the group is for you. Even if you do bring up an issue with him, the point is to look at your feelings, your fears, your concerns about triggering him- not about him.

Get grounded in your own reasons for going. You are going for your own emotional growth. You aren't doing anything "wrong" to your marriage by going- and you aren't going to the groups to upset your H. If he gets upset- those are his feelings- he can manage for an hour or so. If you keep at it, he can get used to it and so will you. He sees you leave and then, he will see you come back. You haven't abandoned him.

[Notwendy]

To adress the couple question- and this is my own opinion. I have been in groups with couples coming together. My own opinion is that is isn't a good idea. If the goal is to be less enmeshed and less co-dependent- coming as a pair to me, inhibits this.

I've seen couples in groups where one spouse "speaks for the other" when they are together and the other doesn't say a word. Then on rare occasion that spouse speaks when the other one couldn't come. I also had it happen where I said something to one spouse and the other one got defensive.

Maybe it works for some couples and it's their choice to attend together- after all- their relationship isn't my business, but I think it changes the dynamics when it's two together.

[LittleRedBarn]

Hi NotWendy

This is immensely helpful, thank you! You have explained things very clearly.

This, in particular, stood out for me:

The two of you are in a pattern of managing your own feelings by controlling the other person in a way. He manages his feelings of abandonment by controlling your going to meetings. You manage your fears of his reaction by bringing him or not going. While being co-dependent may feel self sacrificing, if you really look at what both are doing- it's more about soothing our own feelings than what is best for the other person.

It's really helpful for me to see that I am trying to soothe my own feelings (anxiety, guilt, fear) by either taking him along to the group, or not going at all, while pretending to myself that I am doing it 'for' him. I'd never seen it that way before.

And the advice below is spot on:

Get grounded in your own reasons for going.

Im going to work on that before I discuss it with him again.

 Thank you so much!

[Notwendy]

Glad it helped. He may escalate - as you become less co-dependent, because he will feel the feelings that you aren't managing - and you too will be feeling discomfort when you change your behavior patterns.

But this gives you both the opportunity for change. You can not change another person- you aren't changing him. You are changing your behavior patterns and this is giving you both the space to do something different.

For me it was very helpful to have a sponsor. Groups are helpful but having a sponsor was the one on one support that helped a lot.

Change is slow, and not always linear but if you keep at it you will notice over time that you can let people manage their own feelings more. It's not that we don't ever feel anxious or fall back into that pattern- but if we keep on "our side of the fence" and own our part- we can manage the feelings better. We don't stop being empathetic- it's just that we can manage to not overly people please and fix others feelings.

Your H won't be doing this program so he's going to need to adjust and he will over time. Let's say someone's main relationship tool is a hammer. He has behaviors that are his "hammer" and they work for him. Once the "hammer" doesn't work as well, since he doesn't have another tool, he's going to hammer more until he realizes the hammer isn't working. Then he'll try something else, maybe eventually a better "tool" that works for him.

He'll also learn that if you go to a meeting, you will come back that evening and he can adjust during that time.

[50andwastedlife]

This is so interesting, and exactly what my dBPDh would be like if I went to a group, or even if I see friends. Notwendy is so insightful, as ever, that I have nothing to add but sympathy... It is also EXACTLY what I am like. Looking after other people's feelings, in order to look after my own.

I hope you manage to keep on going to the group on your own. I know it is hard when someone is feeling excluded.

[LittleRedBarn]

Thanks for the warning about being prepared for escalation, NotWendy. I'm hoping that, after two years of intensive therapy and DBT skills training, my husband will have some more 'tools' in his toolbox that he can turn to, now that I am taking his 'hammer' away. But I guess that I need to be prepared for him to continue using the 'hammer' for a while.

And thanks for the solidarity, 50andwastedlife. It always helps to know that we are not alone.