How to save parents and nephew from BPD sister

[Goodwill777]

My sister who is 30 years old has been destroying our family since the age of 12. She has been on drugs, promiscuous, suicidal and mentally unwell. She was finally diagnosed with BPD and severe depression at the age of 30 she now has an eight year-old daughter and uses her daughter as a pawn for me and my parents to do whatever she wants and abuse us. The father is not involved at all on the child’s life.
Her BPD is getting worse and she is extremely abusive to my parents and to her own daughter. She leaves her daughter with my parents sometimes for weeks at a time with not once calling to see how she is or checking on her. She completely ignores her daughter when she’s home and barely feeds her. Her daughter misses so many school days and is behind on her schoolwork always. My parents life is completely hijacked and sabotaged by my sisters angry outburst demands rages, and they don’t know what to do but tolerate it because it is the onlyway they can see their grandchild otherwise she will not let us all see my niece ever again. My parents, mental health and physical health is being greatly affected by such high levels of stress and uncertainty every single day.

[Notwendy]

Such a sad situation for the child and the adults.

First of all- your parents are adults and while the idea of saving them is very kind of you, I'd be careful with this one.

I thought my father was the victim of my BPD mother's behavior- and naively stepped in to try to "rescue" him.

This resulted in the Karpman triangle dynamics. Dad was a rescuer for BPD mother. BPD mother took victim role. Trying to intervene- she got angry, he stepped into rescue her- and so I became the "persecutor" in this scenario.

This situation between your parents and sister didn't just begin recently. It's been going on for 30 years. Your parents are not victims of their daughter. This is Karpman triangle dynamics. You may feel you need to rescue them but Karpman triangle dynamics are disordered ones.

In these situations, adults are not victims. A victim has no choice in whatever happened to them. Your parents have choices- albeit difficult ones but they still have choices. They choose to enable your sister, out of fear, out of concern for the grandaughter, but they still have choices.

There is one victim in this situation and this is the child. She doesn't have choices. But there's another avenue. If the child is missing school- she will come to the attention of social services. It doesn't look like your sister is able to take proper care of her. If social services intervenes, it may lead to custody questions, or your sister being mandated to take parenting classes or get mental health.

While it appears that your sister holds the power ( the grandchild) in this situation, your parents also do. If she's leaving the child with them for long periods of time, your sister doesn't seem to be able to manage being a parent. She's relying on your parents to keep the child whenever she wants to.

One idea, rather than try to "rescue" the adults in the family is to focus on the child. If your parents are keeping her a lot of the time, are they willing to assume custody of her? Can you? Or possibly you could assist them? Understandable that this is a challenge for grandparents to be raising a young child- but it may be the less stressful route for them than to deal with your sister and this erratic schedule.

It may be the better route to let social services investigate the missed school days, poor nutrition, and other neglect and step in.

[zachira]

I feel so sad for the child and know how much it hurts to see your nephew not get the love and care every child deserves.

Trying to get custody of your nephew if this is something you or your parents decide they want to do, is a very complicated process and can backfire on your sister making good on her threats to not let you see him at all. For now, the best thing you can probably do in addition to spending quality time with your nephew is to keep regular documentation of all that you are observing in a notebook with dates in chronological order. A one hour consult with a lawyer could be well worth your time. Oftentimes when there is any kind of abuse going on, the person observing the abuse/experiencing the abuse does not document properly or at all, then when they decide to do something legally relevant about the abuse, the person has to start from ground zero with the documentation and it can often result in a longer road to resolution.

Know that any time you spend with your nephew lets him know he is valued And can make big differences in how he views himself now and in the future. I am the daughter of a mother with BPD. So many people were kind to me and showed me I was a person worthy of love and that they disapproved of how I was treated by my mother.

[Goodwill777]

Dear Notwendy,

Thank you for your response. Thank you for introducing me to this cycle of dysfunction. As you mentioned this dynamic has been going on for 30 years so it’s not new. Her recent downward spiral is however very new and it’s all caused because she found a new boyfriend, who is dragging her Into the abyss. Before this boyfriend she was always absolutely awful to my parents and myself but Ever since she got this new boyfriend is when she started completely ignoring her responsibilities her bills her home her work schedule and her child.
I do agree with you that my parents have made choices that have allowed their relationship to evolve in this manner. However, I find it very difficult if I were in my parents position to not try to help her when she has a child that will suffer otherwise. She lives in an apartment that my parents own and barely pays rent since she met the boyfriend and all the school absences started since she met the boyfriend also. Which is why my parents are concerned that maybe there are some drugs involved here. My parents constantly confide in me and tell me everything and ask me for advice and suggestions and I don’t really know what to say because The option of telling her to go to hell is the equivalent of telling my niece to go to hell too, and our hearts can’t bear the thought of that.
She has missed many days of school and she was also recently fired from her job so now has no income at all and of course is blaming my parents because she got fired from her job. My parents are in their 60s and willing to take custody of the child if she agrees to disappear. My husband and I are willing to help my parents raise him as well.  The problem is she is so confrontational spiteful, and pure evil that if anyone calls CPS or there’s any kind of notification made to her that she’s being investigated to lose custody she will immediately take the child and leave the state and we will definitely not be able to see if the child is OK or alive the way we are now. It is a very difficult decision because there are two choices report her to DCF and that does not guarantee us custody, but it does guarantee us that the moment she finds out we did that she will take the child and leave the state and we will never see the child again. The other option is we do nothing and live our life around her circus that is affecting everyone involved in such an overwhelming way.
The thought of her running away with the child leaves us frozen to take any action. We can’t risk losing her. We did meet with a lawyer and the lawyer suggested we try to play nice for now because there is not enough evidence that would allow the courts to give us custody, and the lawyer agreed that from what we told him about her that the moment she finds out we are trying to pursue custody. She will take the child and leave, and the child will never be seen again.
As suggested by the second person responding to this post. I do have a notebook and I started documenting on a daily basis since the beginning of January when she dropped her off at my parents house and I have been documenting every single day everything crazy that has happened and everything she has done. I just started this about two weeks ago, but there is a massive amount of abuse and neglect already in this documentation. The lawyer also advised that I keep this documentation on a daily basis which I am doing, and hopefully give her time to continue to screw up her life more until we have enough documentation or evidence on our side and gather the courage to report her. Although I don’t ever see us doing that because we are just too scared of losing that child forever.
Also worth noting is she works at her daughters school and is very friendly and manipulative with the entire staff as they are all her colleagues and I’m sure very hesitant to report her as she is not a regular mom of a student. She is a colleague and works at the school.

[Goodwill777]

Dear Zachira,
Thank you for your response. I responded to both of the responses in my prior message as I am new to this site and couldn’t separate the two messages.

[Notwendy]

These are complicated situations. For my BPD mother, if she knows she has something of value to me (material, relationship)- that is something she will control as a form of power.

For me, the "high value" was my relationship with my father.  A relationship with him seemed to require tolerating her behavior. In your family dynamics, it's the child.

There were situations where assertively stepping in on my father's behalf led to escalating the situation. My BPD mother can be vengeful too. These situations are a challenge because the playing field isn't fair in terms of behavior. Your sister is your parents' child. They won't go as far to be hurtful with her as she will with them.

Your sister holds the power in this dynamic. But you and your parents aren't victims- you aren't helpless- you have choices. The only potential victim here is the child.

In any situation- the only person you can control is yourself. Your parents will likely inevitably cave. They love your sister, and their grandchild- and they are doing probably what most parents would do- put their own needs aside for the sake of the child whether it's functional or dysfunctional dynamics. For them to be able to make changes would probably require counseling for them.

So where do you fit into this? In general, things need to feel "bad" enough for someone to take action to change. This is human nature. While people also sometimes people need to experience this for themselves, we also don't want to see people in harms way, so we have to decide when to step in and when not to.

Where you are taking rescuer/fixer role with your parents is that, they feel distressed over the situation- then they vent to you. This is like a steam kettle - their distress (steam) has an outlet- you. So they themselves have their way of relief of their distress and it becomes another triangle. Sister as their persector, parents as victims, you as rescuer. But this is still dysfunction. They ask you for advice- but you are also in this situation, and not a professional and you are also emotionally involved. They are probably better helped by a professional but may not be as inclined to consult one since they have you to vent to.

Since you can only control your actions in this- one idea is for you to begin to step back from your role and suggest counseling. If they refuse- then you do it for you, so a professional can guide you in this situation so you can make changes in your own role in these dynamics and so, hopefully make some positive changes this way.

[Goodwill777]

Thank you for your response.
My parents are in therapy they go 3 times a week to a therapist that specializes in BPD. I also am in therapy I go once a week. I don’t think there is anything my parents or I can do that we have not already been doing.
Both therapists (mine & my parents) are almost out of ideas or suggestions and are completely shocked everytime we or they meet to hear the amount of crazy things that happen with her every single day. Not a single day goes by that she does not have a new catastrophe or completely ruin everyone’s day.

Therapist tell us that we have 2 choices- report her and risk her taking the child and we never see my niece again
Or the other option is ride out this cycle and be there as much as we can for my niece

[Notwendy]

Sounds like the therapist is right on this one.

It's great that you all have therapists. To turn the issue off you some- when your parents ask you for advice- truthfully-  you aren't their therapist and so aren't in the best position to advise them.

It isn't being unkind to say "Mom, Dad, I wish I had better advice but I don't. This is a great question to ask your therapist". This redirects them to the professional who is not in any "triangle" with the family.

I do this with my BPD mother. She has asked me questions about something to do with her assisted living, or medical related questions. I'm not the best person to advise her on this and often I don't have an accurate answer, so I will redirect her "this is a good question for the director" or "this is a good question for the nurse".

[Goodwill777]

Perhaps I worded my initial message poorly,
I am not seeking to rescue anyone.
Rather, my parents and my husband and myself are all trying to rescue this child from her as she is unfit as a mother.

She uses the child as a pawn so the 4 of us have to do as she saids or we will lose access to the child. When the child is with her she isn’t safe, she’s left alone or left with her new boyfriend, sister and boyfriend lock themselves in their room the entire day and don’t feed or pay any attention to my niece. She packs her own lunches for school and misses more days than she attends. The school staff looks the other way because my sister works at the school and intimidates them too.

My parents are willling to take custody, my husband and I are willing to help raise him, and help and support my parents with raising him in any way needed. The problem is her- she will never voluntarily give us custody as she knows doing this she relinquishes all of her power over us. She does not have her child’s best interest in mind only her own.

She saids to take her daughter to her house and she will take her to school so my parents take her and she calls them next day to say take her to school I’m sick- then my parents pick up my niece from school and my sister doesn’t even come home that night so my parents are on alert 24/7 to take charge of their grandchild - last time she left her at my parents for 14 days- with nothing except the clothes the girl came in and in 14 days didn’t bother to ask how she was or if she needed anything. My parents distress would be gone if they could have custody without worrying about her bullying and constant abuse

[Goodwill777]

Not Wendy,
Thank you for your insight I truly appreciate it.

Telling my parents that’s a good question for your therapist is something we have been doing for quite some time. I have a running list on my phone and everytime I talk to my parents we add things to the list
One list is things to ask my therapist other list is things for them to ask their therapists
After we each meet our therapists we share with eachother the ideas and skills the therapist shared.

Both therapist say she is a very highly functioning BPD person as she can juggle normal life and many responsibilities. Until now when everything changed because she finally got a boyfriend. Now she is neglecting everything and is on the severe end of the BPD spectrum- this is what the therapist said not me

[kells76]

Hi Goodwill777,

Usually, I'm over on the divorce/custody/coparenting board, as my husband's kids' mom has many BPD traits, and is married to a man with many NPD traits.

My H and I got married when the kids were 5 & 7; they are now 16 & 18.

We experienced some similarities to your situation. The kids' mom had full legal custody and most parenting time. The kids were emotionally enmeshed with her and Stepdad. Over the years it became clear that in addition to the emotional manipulation ("Dad isn't your real family"), Mom was physically neglecting the kids (not feeding them dinner, pest infestations in the home, no smoke detectors, etc).

When H got a lawyer and initiated the legal process, things got pretty intense. Mom involved the kids in knowing about legal stuff which was inappropriate and hurtful to them at their ages. Ultimately legally H got a better parenting plan and the kids had to get counseling. Things went better for a while.

SD18 disclosed more neglect, and possible DV by Stepdad, last year. It got to the point that my therapist, out of the blue, said "So do you want me to call CPS, or...?"

What I'd want you to know about our story is that before calling CPS, you can make hypothetical calls to them, without initiating any involvement (assuming you are in the USA).

If you call the reporting number, they will probably direct you to "screening". You are allowed to say that you are describing a "hypothetical" situation and you just want to learn about what they would do under the circumstances. I did that two or three times before finally having to make the official call (long story). It gave me a lot of info that I didn't have, that helped me make my decision.

In your case, it sounds like your main concern is that Mom will abscond with the child right after CPS contacts her. Is that close?

If so, consider making a "hypothetical" call to CPS, and ask them what their procedure is if someone under investigation disappears with a child. Can they do anything? Do they "close the case"? Do they escalate to law enforcement (CPS is not the police)? If so, how much does it escalate -- will there be an Amber Alert?

If you learn that they just shrug and say "well, we tried", that is important information that can direct your planning.

You may also learn that they escalate and can and will track down parents trying to escape a CPS investigation. That may also help you in your decision making.

Another resource that helped me was our local DV hotline. While there isn't necessarily DV happening in your situation, they are an anonymous, non-legal resource, and what that means is you can call them and actually describe your concerns, and they will not initiate any kind of action -- they are just there to listen and help you understand the options available in your community. They will not secretly call the cops or CPS.

In our situation, we did, for many years, tolerate the parenting schedule and focus on building trusting relationships with the kids, no matter what. We would give extra rides if Mom was "too busy", make sure they had food, wash their clothes, etc -- things that built trust between us and them, so that later on, they felt like they could tell us reportable things.

It's not an easy decision to involve external authorities. There are often no clear cut answers... until there are.

I'd recommend gathering information, learning about how the process would hypothetically work, and focusing on positive, trust-building relating with the child. I get where you're coming from, that Mom might escalate if you involve authorities. That was my concern, too, and unfortunately she did have a huge reaction and did take it out verbally on SD18. That being said, our concern wasn't that she would escape with the kids, so that is a difference.

I'm thinking one good option is that you and your parents continue "extra-legally" caring for the child, recording everything you do, making sure the kiddo is clean and fed and rested and feels like you can be trusted. Make sure to do low-key fun things together when you can, too, so that everything isn't about what Mom is or isn't doing. Later on, it may become more clear what direction you have to go, but for now, build that relationship and make sure the child's needs are met as best you can.

Are you able to cover school transportation?

[kells76]

Adding:

It may also be worth it, as you gather information, to understand what legally constitutes "abandonment" in your state. There can be contact timelines associated with what is legally considered abandoning a child (i.e., 3 months without contact). There are also age requirements (in our state, it's under 15).

Not all states have very clear cut legal definitions of abandonment. It wouldn't be a "do it yourself" project to "prove" it and then petition for custody -- so if you do some research and suspect your situation may fall under that umbrella, it would be very important to consult or meet with a family law attorney.

[zachira]

How does your nephew feel about the situation with his mother? It is important that his feelings be heard and validated. Children often think that when they are abused and abandoned that they are unlovable. This core feeling of being unlovable and deserving of abuse can affect them very negatively for the rest of their lives.

[CC43]

Hi there,

I'm so sorry you're in such a tough spot, and that you've had to deal with the chaos your sister creates for so long.  You wrote words like sabotage and hijack . . . when dealing with the pwBPD and pwuNPD in my life, I've used the term emotional terrorism to describe what it's like.  It's no wonder you feel spent, exhausted, worried, in distress, frustrated and/or despondent.  You might even feel some PTSD.  Do you panic when you hear the phone ring late at night?  I still do, because it's never a nice call.

I agree with taking detailed notes, including specific dates and times, to have information ready should you decide to involve CPS or other authorities.  If your sister texts, it might help to save the correspondence; if she calls, maybe you consider recording her.  I would caution though, there can be a very high bar to prove neglect.  The other thing I've experienced is that the pwBPD/NPD are very adept at lying.  They can typically pull themselves together and clean up the home when police or CPS come around, and appear almost normal, coming up with convenient excuses for everything.  Another tactic is to be a habitual no-show.  Maybe they don't answer the door when CPS knocks.  Maybe they set up an appointment in the distant future, but then they don't show up once again.  That buys time, and the authorities typically aren't pressed to follow up quickly.  Meanwhile the child might be stuck in limbo, enduring abuse.  The other rub is that, if you or your parents are doing a great job caring for the child when in your custody, the child might actually be doing well, for example in school.  Having said that, the missed school days should be a red flag.

You and your parents are very kind to take care of the child so frequently.  Surely it's not easy, as the schedule is unpredictable, and you're worried sick when the child isn't in your custody.  Plus it probably takes a couple of days for the child to "recover" from any time spent with mom, and to re-establish any daily routine.  I have nieces and nephews who spend time with a disordered uNPD father, and they literally get sick from just one overnight with him (even though they are older and thus more self-reliant than your eight-year-old!).  Despite years of emotional abuse (horrible name-calling, unwarranted punishments, etc.), poor living conditions (no edible food in the home, uncleaned vomit on the floor, clogged/unusable tub, unlaundered sheets, mice and flies, etc.), a history of dozens of improperly stored lethal weapons in the home, multiple medical events (e.g. picked up by police and taken to the hospital after erratic driving on the way to visitation), the authorities will not take away custody, but only limit visitation.  Frankly I think that it's more likely that he will die from substance abuse and/or untreated medical conditions than for the kids to be free of visitation with him.  Often I wonder why he even tries to keep visitation.  He clearly doesn't enjoy it, as he skips around half of his days with the kids (with no notice of course).  But I think it comes down to a means of control.

Aside from taking detailed notes, one thing that you could do is to be present in the child's life as much as you can.  I try to do that with my nieces and nephews, making sure that they know they are loved and important.  Plus they get to see what a normal, healthy adult's life looks like.  Sometimes it's not possible to see the kids in person very frequently, but I will make a point to talk with them on the phone from time to time.  Another thing I've noticed is that when they were around eight, they didn't really understand that their uNPD father was disordered.  But now that they are a few years older, I think they know.  They want to love him (I think all kids want to love their parents no matter what), but they realize he's too sick, mentally and physically, to take care of a home and kids.

Oh, one other point:  you may want to consider getting the child some therapy, if that is an option.  My nieces and nephews have each had therapy from time to time, to help cope with life with a disordered father.  One child focused on tactics to handle parentification.  Another had trouble feeling rejected and put down by his dad.  Another had the beginnings of an eating disorder.  I think that getting therapy when the children showed signs of struggle was important for them, and when they normalized or thought the therapy wasn't helping anymore, they stopped.

All my best to you.

[Goodwill777]

Kells76,
Thank you so much for your response. All of your suggestions were extremely helpful.
At this time, I’m just waiting because she has been with my parents for about a month. We are waiting to see how long she can stay with them because the longer she’s able to stay with them the better our case. Also, the longer she stays with them. We can all sleep at night because we know ahe’s safe with them. On the other hand, the very concerning part is how much this child is suffering. She has no father and has never met her father. So he already has abandonment issues. Now her mom who was always been ultra controlling and didn’t ever let her even barely see any family has now abandoned her For almost a month with very little contact. The only contact they have is when she the 8 year old initiates it. which is even more sad because she insists that she wants to go home and she wants to call her mom and she wants to talk to her mom and cuddle with her mom and when my parents let her call her mom she asks if she can go home and her mom says no, and then she starts hysterically crying and is inconsolable for about 30 to 40 minutes it’s not a tantrum cry it’s a different cry like a cry of desperation- so heartbreaking to witness her cry like this and then calms down then next time she wants to call her mom the same thing happens.