Dry January is OVER - dealing with increase aggression

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've started attending Al Anon meetings, trying to find some that fit. Hoping that it will be helpful and so far while there are some applicable things it feels with a BPD spouse what others are talking about doesn't relate to what I (or we here) may go through having BPD in addition to alcohol issues.

My uBPDw did most of dry January (25 days, which is the longest she's gone w/o alcohol for many years) but she was counting down the days until she could have a drink again. I've been on edge and stressed the closer to the end of January we got. I've noticed during the brief periods of sobriety how different she is. Not 100% normal because she still has BPD but so much better overall. In January while not drinking she was much more chill and less angry overall. There was still one episode in Jan where she got unregulated for 2 days so the BPD is still there of course, just not as explosive and frequent.

She started drinking last week and I pretty much predicted what was going to happen. It's a cycle that's repeated several times when she's taken brief breaks. She stopped and felt great physically, slept better and more in control and was so much more emotionally stable. She even recognized how much more in control of her emotions she was. Yet she couldn't wait to have a glass of wine again (life is so boring w/o alcohol). Jan 31 she was resolved to only drink on the weekends. She drank the first weekend, 5 glasses of wine first day. She woke up hungover with a headache and talked how bad she felt but didn't stop her from having more drinks Saturday. Even though she said she was only going to drink on the weekends she only made it until Wednesday this week when she drank a bottle of wine. Which compared to before is pretty moderate.

We went out again yesterday. It was a late birthday dinner for me she took me out to. Everything started great. Had a fantastic meal, it was a big shopping entertainment and dining outdoor center. We got there and the first thing she wanted was to find a drink. She had 4 drinks (really closer to 6 std drinks as 2 were 9 oz wines and 2 were cocktails). After dinner we walked around at a store. When we went in she commented on the time and I said something like I guess we’ll take off after this shop and head home. Wasn’t too late but we’re up at 5:30am daily. As we leave the store she says she wants a wine or drink for the way out, I say we’re right next to the parking lot and there wasn't a place nearby for a wine and we were heading out. She was put off apparently and this set her off for the night. I honestly was not set on leaving, I thought we were heading out. I can't remember what she said but something about how I can't just walk around somewhere now that I'm not drinking? (I'm not drinking for a while). I told her we could stay, it was fine with me to walk around. She said in a 'tone' no that’s fine, it’s your birthday and you’re ready to leave. I reiterated that we could stay and I was fine with it.

On the 45 minute drive home it fluctuated between uncomfortable silence and her starting to make comments. Sounded angry saying the old me (that drank) would want to stay out and party, now all I want to do is sit in the couch at home. She just wanted to have a good time, but I had to squish it. I don't know if it was JADE'ing but I do say that I offered to stay and we could have walked around, I said that several times. Then she got mad because I wasn't apologize for what I did to her. I said I was sorry she was feeling upset about this. She pressed and asked why I can't apologize for what I did (this came up several times through the night). I calmly said I didn't do anything that needed to be apologized for but I'm sorry she got upset and that it happened.

We got home and she had been talking in circles much of the drive. Mad because I can't let loose enough. She said she picked that place because she wanted to walk around and have some drinks and do something different then sit on the couch. (so I guess that's why she picked the place? So she could drink on my birthday). I park in the garage and she'll sitting in the passenger seat. I'm upset, sad and mad at this point. That she would do this on my birthday... I try to remember she's mentally ill but it hurts that she can't/won't keep herself under control. I collect my stuff then get out, I ask her if she's getting out and she said no or she doesn't know. I go into the house, she's stays in the car.

I go talk with my son when I come in. She comes into the house a few minutes later. Goes into the bedroom and puts on her robe and sits on our bed to watch TV. I stay out, I'm happy to not interact with her. Then a few minutes later the texts start from her:

"I'm getting more angry as I sit here, This is bullsh!t. You can change tonight. It's your decision"
"come and talk to me like a f-ing man"

I guess that's where I messed up? I went into the room and talked with her. She called me walk away husband because all I never do is walk away. (true I am walking away more while she's unregulated). More circles - she said "this is how you're going to treat me? after all I did for you on your birthday?" She kept wanting a apology, demanding one. Why can't you just say you're sorry she said say I'm sorry I messed up. I did hold my position and said I'm sorry she's feeling sad/hurt/angry but I said I didn't do anything that requires an apology and I did offer for us to stay. Just circular talk and comments. Saying she doesn't believe I'm sorry.

It didn't really go anywhere. She somewhat settled and said I should go spend some time with our son. So I did, I left for 30-40 minutes to hang with my son. Went to bed and she was already going to sleep.

Today she is still upset. I've tried to not continue talking about it. Just texting her pleasantries asking how her day is, etc. She asked if we were doing something tonight. I said we could do something. Then a passive aggressive comment back that she doesn't want to ruin 'my' budget (we're staying within a budget for eating out for the month and I told her last week we need to stick with it). Ugh.

This drunk arguing garbage hasn’t happened once in the past month. Of course she does it on my birthday dinner out!  Can't be surprised, she's done this on so many special occasions, holidays, even Christmas, etc. There is no day, time or place immune from her outbursts.

Anyway - I meet with a new therapist on Monday. But again trying to figure out a better playbook. How could I have handled this better? I feel like I should be further along. Al Anon is okay but trying to think about what kind of boundaries and limits need to be set around this. And it's scary because I do feel like this could poke the dragon in a big way.

Do you have spouses that use alcohol? What are some limits you set? She drinks frequently, most people we go out with enjoy alcohol. So I don't want to give any ultimatums but when she's arguing and drinking do I just leave? Do I tell her any argument, etc when she's drinking won't get a response? Because I will have to leave the house I believe. She calls me a walk away husband because all I never do is walk away and she HATES it when I do. Gets particularly angry when I won't continue listening to her. And I guess it's the FOG because I have a hard time discerning what to do, should I sit and listen and try to be empathetic vs when to walk away?

[campbembpd]

I've started attending Al Anon meetings, trying to find some that fit. Hoping that it will be helpful and so far while there are some applicable things it feels with a BPD spouse what others are talking about doesn't relate to what I (or we here) may go through having BPD in addition to alcohol issues.

My uBPDw did most of dry January (25 days, which is the longest she's gone w/o alcohol for many years) but she was counting down the days until she could have a drink again. I've been on edge and stressed the closer to the end of January we got. I've noticed during the brief periods of sobriety how different she is. Not 100% normal because she still has BPD but so much better overall. In January while not drinking she was much more chill and less angry overall. There was still one episode in Jan where she got unregulated for 2 days so the BPD is still there of course, just not as explosive and frequent.

She started drinking last week and I pretty much predicted what was going to happen. It's a cycle that's repeated several times when she's taken brief breaks. She stopped and felt great physically, slept better and more in control and was so much more emotionally stable. She even recognized how much more in control of her emotions she was. Yet she couldn't wait to have a glass of wine again (life is so boring w/o alcohol). Jan 31 she was resolved to only drink on the weekends. She drank the first weekend, 5 glasses of wine first day. She woke up hungover with a headache and talked how bad she felt but didn't stop her from having more drinks Saturday. Even though she said she was only going to drink on the weekends she only made it until Wednesday this week when she drank a bottle of wine. Which compared to before is pretty moderate.

We went out again yesterday. It was a late birthday dinner for me she took me out to. Everything started great. Had a fantastic meal, it was a big shopping entertainment and dining outdoor center. We got there and the first thing she wanted was to find a drink. She had 4 drinks (really closer to 6 std drinks as 2 were 9 oz wines and 2 were cocktails). After dinner we walked around at a store. When we went in she commented on the time and I said something like I guess we’ll take off after this shop and head home. Wasn’t too late but we’re up at 5:30am daily. As we leave the store she says she wants a wine or drink for the way out, I say we’re right next to the parking lot and there wasn't a place nearby for a wine and we were heading out. She was put off apparently and this set her off for the night. I honestly was not set on leaving, I thought we were heading out. I can't remember what she said but something about how I can't just walk around somewhere now that I'm not drinking? (I'm not drinking for a while). I told her we could stay, it was fine with me to walk around. She said in a 'tone' no that’s fine, it’s your birthday and you’re ready to leave. I reiterated that we could stay and I was fine with it.

On the 45 minute drive home it fluctuated between uncomfortable silence and her starting to make comments. Sounded angry saying the old me (that drank) would want to stay out and party, now all I want to do is sit in the couch at home. She just wanted to have a good time, but I had to squish it. I don't know if it was JADE'ing but I do say that I offered to stay and we could have walked around, I said that several times. Then she got mad because I wasn't apologize for what I did to her. I said I was sorry she was feeling upset about this. She pressed and asked why I can't apologize for what I did (this came up several times through the night). I calmly said I didn't do anything that needed to be apologized for but I'm sorry she got upset and that it happened.

We got home and she had been talking in circles much of the drive. Mad because I can't let loose enough. She said she picked that place because she wanted to walk around and have some drinks and do something different then sit on the couch. (so I guess that's why she picked the place? So she could drink on my birthday). I park in the garage and she'll sitting in the passenger seat. I'm upset, sad and mad at this point. That she would do this on my birthday... I try to remember she's mentally ill but it hurts that she can't/won't keep herself under control. I collect my stuff then get out, I ask her if she's getting out and she said no or she doesn't know. I go into the house, she's stays in the car.

I go talk with my son when I come in. She comes into the house a few minutes later. Goes into the bedroom and puts on her robe and sits on our bed to watch TV. I stay out, I'm happy to not interact with her. Then a few minutes later the texts start from her:

"I'm getting more angry as I sit here, This is bullsh!t. You can change tonight. It's your decision"
"come and talk to me like a f-ing man"

I guess that's where I messed up? I went into the room and talked with her. She called me walk away husband because all I never do is walk away. (true I am walking away more while she's unregulated). More circles - she said "this is how you're going to treat me? after all I did for you on your birthday?" She kept wanting a apology, demanding one. Why can't you just say you're sorry she said say I'm sorry I messed up. I did hold my position and said I'm sorry she's feeling sad/hurt/angry but I said I didn't do anything that requires an apology and I did offer for us to stay. Just circular talk and comments. Saying she doesn't believe I'm sorry.

It didn't really go anywhere. She somewhat settled and said I should go spend some time with our son. So I did, I left for 30-40 minutes to hang with my son. Went to bed and she was already going to sleep.

Today she is still upset. I've tried to not continue talking about it. Just texting her pleasantries asking how her day is, etc. She asked if we were doing something tonight. I said we could do something. Then a passive aggressive comment back that she doesn't want to ruin 'my' budget (we're staying within a budget for eating out for the month and I told her last week we need to stick with it). Ugh.

This drunk arguing garbage hasn’t happened once in the past month. Of course she does it on my birthday dinner out!  Can't be surprised, she's done this on so many special occasions, holidays, even Christmas, etc. There is no day, time or place immune from her outbursts.

Anyway - I meet with a new therapist on Monday. But again trying to figure out a better playbook. How could I have handled this better? I feel like I should be further along. Al Anon is okay but trying to think about what kind of boundaries and limits need to be set around this. And it's scary because I do feel like this could poke the dragon in a big way.

Do you have spouses that use alcohol? What are some limits you set? She drinks frequently, most people we go out with enjoy alcohol. So I don't want to give any ultimatums but when she's arguing and drinking do I just leave? Do I tell her any argument, etc when she's drinking won't get a response? Because I will have to leave the house I believe. She calls me a walk away husband because all I never do is walk away and she HATES it when I do. Gets particularly angry when I won't continue listening to her. And I guess it's the FOG because I have a hard time discerning what to do, should I sit and listen and try to be empathetic vs when to walk away?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

Al anon is a start. I would suggest also adding CODA. Many people attend different meetings- it all really leads to the same end- just different ways to get there.

I suggest getting a sponsor. Meetings alone might help but for me, having the one on one with a sponsor, who helped to shift the focus from whatever the person I was concerned about was doing, to my part in the dynamics, the enabling, the codependency- was where I could actually see this part better and work on change. IMHO, I think you may be dismissing Al Anon without getting the benefit of the program by not having a sponsor and also saying "it's not the same as alcohol and BPD.  It's the same because the common factor to alcohol alone and alcohol with BPD is you, and that is the part that you control.

[campbembpd]

Al anon is a start. I would suggest also adding CODA. Many people attend different meetings- it all really leads to the same end- just different ways to get there.

I suggest getting a sponsor. Meetings alone might help but for me, having the one on one with a sponsor, who helped to shift the focus from whatever the person I was concerned about was doing, to my part in the dynamics, the enabling, the codependency- was where I could actually see this part better and work on change. IMHO, I think you may be dismissing Al Anon without getting the benefit of the program by not having a sponsor and also saying "it's not the same as alcohol and BPD.  It's the same because the common factor to alcohol alone and alcohol with BPD is you, and that is the part that you control.

Thanks Notwendy! I should have mentioned I am also attending CODA.

Yes, I've actually been thinking about getting a sponsor, as I've listened to some of the meetings some have emphasized the importance of it. I'll look at that as a next step. I think that's a good suggestion. 

[Notwendy]

Oh good, for me, that made a difference to have a sponsor.

After attending meetings for a while, you will see who the more experiened members are,- people who have been through the program and are willing to sponsor others.

Mine was tough sometimes- turned the mirror on me. It's not pleasant to have someone do that but I am grateful for it now!


Hope it works well for you.

[expatblue]

  I am in a similar situation but I still drink a bit,  my female partner drinks heavily and then becomes verbally negative, insulting or abusive.  I decided that I would set a boundary that I would not tolerate that.  When we were both sober I calmly mentioned to her that this was happening and in the future she was not to talk to me drunk unless it was happy talk.  Believe it or not , it worked .   I simply use the zip the mouth gesture when she starts to go down that path and don't respond.   She often just goes in her room to enjoy her drunkeness alone. The other aspects of our relationship are still pretty low unfortunately but at least I get less drunken abuse.

[campbembpd]

Thank you! I haven’t been back here for a while, but I actually like the sound of stating that as a boundary, only happy talk. I said, but then did not follow through on a boundary that I would not fight or argue or talk about sensitive subjects if alcohol was being consumed. I folded pretty much every time on that, because she just wants to “talk “. But that inevitably spirals very badly, just like it did last night…

I think I’ll try the happy talk boundary. For me it’s gonna be more involved because she gets quite intimidating and presses. I will have to leave the room and maybe the house because she will not stop talking and wanting to get into it or “resolve “things..