Partner expects to go out on a date to 'make up' even when they're angry

[campbembpd]

Have an (another) ongoing issue with my uBPDw. We'll get into a fight and by that I mean she's unregulated and stuck in a circle of feelings and is all over the place. I'm not really in the fight but she's angry with me. She's not full steam, probably a 4/10. Frustrated and been saying all afternoon like "you don't love me like you used to", "you don't respect me" "I can't believe you would treat me so terribly" "the old you would just apologize so we could move past this". I have BTW apologized for her hurting so bad, etc. But I haven't and won't apologize for what I 'did' that triggered her. What I did was a normal thing - I basically suggested we were going to head home after being in a store. She wanted to walk around more which I didn't know. And once I did I said we could absolutely stay to walk around more. My sin was not 'wanting' to walk around like she did - so ergo I don't want to be with her as much, I'm not romantic, I don't love her as much. I should have wanted it. Then sin #2 was after 45 mins of circular talk in the care on the way home I went inside while she stayed in the car. If I respected her I would have never left.

Anyway what happens is now it's Friday. Now she wants to go out but she's in a bad mood still tonight.  She's a little better but just been sad/angry but not raging. So in the past usually I would power through it and say okay let's go out, let's go for a drive. Then it was always a crap shoot if she would actually snap out of it or if she would just stay in her mood and I would continue to be subject to the 'discussion' and statements and put in a position where she wants me to defend or justify why I think or did something or why I don't respect her, etc. Often it can work to help her feel better. 

I think I've built such an expectation that I'm used to it as well. I don't want to sit in a car and eat dinner with someone that's not in a good mood, that's not how I want to spend a date. And I'm watching our budget so we don't have unlimited $$. However if I do take her out this weekend could be so much better and if I don't then this weekend could be so much worse. I want her to feel better and be a good husband but it's hard me for to be objective and draw the line of where that is vs being a caretaker... 

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[42andyou]

I don't have any advice to give, just wanted to let you know you're not alone with trying to navigate how to make the weekend more tolerable. My uBPDh left this morning after getting angry at me for not bringing up things that bother me enough, so he thinks I am faking in our relationship, when I really just want to have a normal day here and there, even with our issues in the background. He'll be back tonight, so, I get the day to myself, but I still have to wait to see what state of mind he'll be in when he gets home and how I want to handle it, setting the tone for the weekend..

[Notwendy]

This is a bit of chicken and egg situation- and it's been going on a long time. If you are looking at change- it's going to be from your own change- but the question is how and- also- it's not going to change in one weekend- and also- are you able to stand up to the reaction if you don't go along with her request.

Why wouldn't she behave like this? It works. She can accuse you of something and get a nice expensive date? But if you say no to this date, and your wife knows her behavior works, it's going to escalate before any changes happen- because this has been going on a long time. This isn't about her being wrong, or with bad intentions. It's the nature of all living things to respond to rewards. If a child behaved badly, had a tantrum, demanded candy and got candy- of course they'd do it again.

My BPD mother is happiest when doing something fun and having attention- I think most people would be. Dating is fun. But the other side of real life is responsibilities, and these aren't always fun, but we are able to manage our feelings for the greater goal. I think pwBPD tend to project these feelings. I think for my mother, in the moment, she truly believes the item or event she wants is the solution to her emotional discomfort- feels she has to have it immediately. My father couldn't stand to see her feeling this way and so, did what he thought he needed to do to help her feel better in the moment.

One thing to consider is- are you ready and able -emotionally- to deal with the reaction if you say no? While perhaps you may want to change this pattern of behavior- you also need to be able to manage your own feelings when your wife reacts- and this is something that can be worked on with a 12 step sponsor and/or therapist. If you don't want to continue this pattern, you have to make changes- but these may also take some personal work.

Saying "no" to my BPD mother is very difficult. Admittedly, she usually gets her way. Trying to reason with her over finances doesn't work. This is because discussing finances is logic and numbers, and for her, her needs are emotional.

I have, over time, learned to have boundaries with her and to say no. It's not easy. A part of this is also accepting that, in the moment, to her, I won't be the "good daughter". While saying no to her is difficult, I think it's more difficult for a spouse to say no.

We just had a recent conversation with this pattern. She was asking me some questions that I didn't know the answer to. I kept saying "I don't know" (admittedly with some exasperation in my voice because I didn't know what to tell her) and the conversation ended. A minute later was the call back and a different emotional tone. "I just need you to be compassionate to me. You need to be more compassionate".

This was a need based situation. She didn't need the answers ( she knew the answer already). She needed me to answer them for her as a form of caring for her. When I replied logically that I didn't know- to her, it felt like I was not being caring or compassionate.

How do you not be an emotional caretaker? I don't know what is possible or not. I think it's about choosing your boundaries- what you are willing to do and what you won't do.

Your wife may also want more emotional caretaking and while the goal is to reduce your being an emotional caretaker, it's hard to stop all at once. Perhaps the better goal is to reduce, gradually, and it may take some work on your part to be able to manage this.

[EyesUp]

Apologies if this has been discussed in the past:  What about a boundary wrapped in an invitation to go out on a date?

"I'd like to take my wife on a date. A real date. A date where both of us have a good time and enjoy each other's company. Does this sound good? Yes? So here's what I'd like to propose: If either of us isn't feeling right, is upset, etc., we'll spend time together and work it out. If we're feeling good, then we'll treat ourselves to a night out. Let's agree:  No bad dates" 

No "you" statements - check.
Want to spend time together either way - check.

I know, easier said than done. She'll likely perceive the guardrails and implied blame and may be triggered anyway.

The other version is probably more direct and to the point:

"I want to go out together, but I will not go when we're in conflict."

I offer these suggestions in the spirit of brainstorming. This isn't only about determining what might work for your wife - it's about determining what will work for you. What are you prepared to do? To accept, or not accept?

To this last point: These are the only things that are truly in your ability to control.