Learning hard lessons…

[Parents! Get help here!]

Last week, my D got very vulnerable and asked civilly if I would come home from our state. That she was lonely, had no plans for the weekend and please would I.
It was the first time in a long while she was acting well, so I decided to come. Talked to her in the airport. Texted her that I had reserved a parking spot by her home and would be there at 10 am. It’s a two- hour drive from my town.
Next morning, pack the car, am on the road, and she asks to cancel. Due to plans with friends. (She was on a waitlist to go to a certain event with friends she said, and so I told her if she did get a ticket after all not to worry, we could get together on Sunday.)
I’ll be honest, I didn’t think she was telling the truth but since I had no way of knowing I turned around and went back home.

Of course, the calls started after that. She didn’t think she wanted to go. She wasn’t sure. She didn’t feel good. By now, I had returned home so I gave her a limit and said - let me know by 1 PM because I can still come down and be there by three and we can do dinner or something.

A little before 1 she called and I asked if she wanted me to come and instead she said I don’t think I want to see you. You scare me and I am not ready to see you and I’m not sure I can have a relationship with you. OMG. Again!

My older daughter was here to observe all of this, and she admitted that this constant back-and-forth and focus on these phone calls was not a nice way to spend the day with me. So I stopped taking the phone calls that were repeatedly coming in, we went to lunch and a little bit of shopping, and came back and watched some shows. I did text my younger daughter in the middle of these calls that I was not ignoring her, and that I would talk with her later because our calls had not been productive thus far.

So, here we are today. She is calling angry that I haven’t tried to reach out to her again. She is saying that this is my fault. And that we didn’t see each other yesterday because I stopped answering.

So, many of you here rightly said being home will not help or change anything and you are right. I will admit, I did defend myself and tried to explain, which obviously was a bad decision.

So, that’s the latest lesson learned on my part. I continue to feed the illness, but I am trying to change by at least putting small limits in place and hold to them.

It’s so hard. I really worry for her and see no light at the end of the tunnel without going thru fire too.

[SoVeryConfused]

Last week, my D got very vulnerable and asked civilly if I would come home from our state. That she was lonely, had no plans for the weekend and please would I.
It was the first time in a long while she was acting well, so I decided to come. Talked to her in the airport. Texted her that I had reserved a parking spot by her home and would be there at 10 am. It’s a two- hour drive from my town.
Next morning, pack the car, am on the road, and she asks to cancel. Due to plans with friends. (She was on a waitlist to go to a certain event with friends she said, and so I told her if she did get a ticket after all not to worry, we could get together on Sunday.)
I’ll be honest, I didn’t think she was telling the truth but since I had no way of knowing I turned around and went back home.

Of course, the calls started after that. She didn’t think she wanted to go. She wasn’t sure. She didn’t feel good. By now, I had returned home so I gave her a limit and said - let me know by 1 PM because I can still come down and be there by three and we can do dinner or something.

A little before 1 she called and I asked if she wanted me to come and instead she said I don’t think I want to see you. You scare me and I am not ready to see you and I’m not sure I can have a relationship with you. OMG. Again!

My older daughter was here to observe all of this, and she admitted that this constant back-and-forth and focus on these phone calls was not a nice way to spend the day with me. So I stopped taking the phone calls that were repeatedly coming in, we went to lunch and a little bit of shopping, and came back and watched some shows. I did text my younger daughter in the middle of these calls that I was not ignoring her, and that I would talk with her later because our calls had not been productive thus far.

So, here we are today. She is calling angry that I haven’t tried to reach out to her again. She is saying that this is my fault. And that we didn’t see each other yesterday because I stopped answering.

So, many of you here rightly said being home will not help or change anything and you are right. I will admit, I did defend myself and tried to explain, which obviously was a bad decision.

So, that’s the latest lesson learned on my part. I continue to feed the illness, but I am trying to change by at least putting small limits in place and hold to them.

It’s so hard. I really worry for her and see no light at the end of the tunnel without going thru fire too.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[CC43]

Hi there,

I have been stood up by my BPD stepdaughter countless times.  She stands her dad up, too.  Once he flew half way across the country to meet with her at her request, and then she refused to see him.  I understand that she was in such distress that she thought she couldn't bear to see him, but then again, she was oblivious to the pain she caused her dad, let alone the inconvenience and expense.  He took time off work, just to see her, at her request, and she completely blew him off.  He was devastated.

So my advice is, she's the one who should be visiting you, and you should lower your expectations about her showing up.  She might stand you up anyway.  In my experience, my BPD stepdaughter will invite herself over for dinner, typically around once per week, and then she'll stand me up with no notice or communication.  If we call or text her to inquire if she'll be coming to dinner, after waiting for her for an hour, she typically will not respond.  She might pretend to be asleep, or say that her phone lost its charge, which are clearly lies.  What do I do?  I refuse to make special plans for her.  I practically expect that she won't show up.  That way, when she doesn't show up, which is around 50% of the time these days, I don't sweat it, and I'm usually grateful for the lack of drama.  When she does show up, I'm not surprised about requests for money or favors.  That's just the way she is.  If I don't expect much of her, I'm not disappointed.  And I don't take the no-shows personally.  It's just a sign that something isn't going her way at the moment.  Does that make sense?  Look, I used to be on pins and needles trying to help her.  But you know what?  Nothing I do seems to help her!  So I take the pressure off myself.  I generally help only if I'm asked in person--the in-person part is important, because a text or email shows low commitment.  And historically, she has never responded to any of my texts or emails.

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you for this insight. Oh wow. Such a similar story. How did your husband handle it? How did he engage with her afterward? How did he get to a more healthy place today?  I would welcome some practical steps he may have taken to jump off the merry-go-round since you all seem to be in a better place.

I'm totally okay with her bailing on family things or dinner if we were already here, but to beg me to fly home and then tell me all of this has just made me so mad. At her and at myself for coming.

I am booking a ticket to go back to our state tomorrow. I'm just tired.

[CC43]

"I'm totally okay with her bailing on family things or dinner if we were already here, but to beg me to fly home and then tell me all of this has just made me so mad. At her and at myself for coming."

That's how I feel.  So what I do now is invite her to all family events, and leave options open to her.  I say things like, "We're hosting Thanksgiving at our place this year, and you're welcome to come any time, all day.  Other family members said they'll be arriving around 2 PM.  We'll be serving dinner at 3 PM, but we'll be enjoying plenty of hors d'oeuvres and leftovers all day long.  Of course, we'll have leftovers on Friday too, if you prefer to stop by then."  I say it this way so she'll know who is coming and when, and if she wants to avoid certain individuals whom she deems toxic, she can plan her visit accordingly.  If she feels too tired on Thursday, she might stop by on Friday.  We can never be sure.  But I just make a lot of food and wonder if she will show up.  It's her choice entirely.  If she doesn't show up, then that means more leftovers for me.  I suspect even she doesn't know what she'll do until the very last moment, especially around the holidays, which are tough for pwBPD.  I guess the key message is, let her come to you, and she can decide whether she shows up or not.  Because she's unreliable and mercurial, the onus is on her to make the effort to visit.  Otherwise, you'll be disappointed after making efforts to see her when she changes her mind.  With the intense and mercurial emotions associated with BPD, she probably changes her mind multiple times in a single day.  She might be waiting for a better invitation from friends or something, and when better plans don't materialize, she's too upset to visit us.  So what I do is extend invitations when I want, and give her the choice whether to visit or not.  She's always welcome anyway, so I don't really have to extend a special invitation except at holidays.  If she has a meltdown at my house, she'll usually run away quickly.  In summary, the door is open, but she has to decide to walk through it.  The same thing applies to the phone.  The lines of communication are open, but she has to decide to text or call.  If she texts or calls in a mean way, I just ignore it--again, it's a sign that something isn't going her way in her life at that moment.

All the best to you.

[SoVeryConfused]

Update: I decided to fly back to our state tonight. I never saw her on Sunday after how things went down, and she is furious I didn’t.

She had started texting today the normal blaming. I asked if we could meet in person. She texted some harsh words and no. So I decided why stay.  My D called while I was at the airport a few hours ago, and I told her and why.

She immediately lost her mind and threatened to harm herself.oh my gosh. She said go ahead and call 911. I started to call- she called back. I told her I was going to call her dad and the police. My husband ended up calling her. Meanwhile, I’m at a crossroads. If I stay, this threat has worked and I’ve reinforced it. If I don’t, the unthinkable.

I went thru security. She called again. I answered, and she said she no longer wants a relationship with me- she’s sorry- etc. then called me back three times which I didn’t answer. That’s the pattern.

I’m sick to my stomach. My husband is picking me up now. He said he had an ok conversation with her and has not checked back in. I think he should have. I don’t know that she’s ok. I’m ready to throw in the towel. I don’t think I have this in me to stay strong.

Now what do I do? I feel like the worst mom ever and I’m scared.

[Resiliant]

I’m sick to my stomach. My husband is picking me up now. He said he had an ok conversation with her and has not checked back in. I think he should have. I don’t know that she’s ok. I’m ready to throw in the towel. I don’t think I have this in me to stay strong.

Now what do I do? I feel like the worst mom ever and I’m scared.

Hey there fellow snowbird... so I have to ask you: when you wrote that statement, who was in charge of your emotions and how you feel about yourself.  You, or your DD?

I think you did the right thing.

R

[SoVeryConfused]

It’s her voice. And honestly, probably some of mine too, but I recognize wrongly.My thinking is messed up. And my H is furious with me now because we handle this so differently and she’s almost normal with him. Not good.

I know she will call me many times today and ask how I could leave her when she’s suicidal & why don’t I care about her? She wants to die. Etc.if I don’t take the calls, she flips out more. And I do feel uncaring. But I can’t do this anymore.

I have no idea how to reply today. I want to plan ahead… Some thoughts:
Me: I recognize you are depressed because I left/you feel hopeless/you think dad and I don’t care. Is that right?
D: you don’t care. You don’t love me. What kind of mom leaves when her D is going to kill herself?? You did this to me.
Me: ?????
D: this relationship is over, and if I die it’s your fault.
Me: ?????
Hangs up on me. Then calls back immediately over and over.
If I don’t answer, she panics and texts and texts and says I’m abandoning her, more threats. Etc.

I think if I had some statements ready to go on repeat, I might handle this better. I do have a new therapist, but he’s on vacation for two weeks-of course! And I’m starting parent coaching classes today.
Thank you.

[CC43]

Hi there,

You might try the phone version of gray rocking. That means, be as still and boring as a gray rock. Try silence, or maybe a quiet uh-huh. The point is, she’s trying to unleash some of her intense emotion onto you, and she’s expecting that you get on her emotional rollercoaster alongside her. Try not to do that. Be still and quiet. If she asks, What do you have to say for yourself/Don’t you have anything to say, you might answer, There’s nothing I can say to make it better, or something along those lines. If you have to, hang up, saying something like, this is stressful, I’m taking a break now, bye. Then give her (and you) a time out. If she threatens suicide, you might say, Do you want me to call 911 for you? Or, Do you need to call 911? It’s her choice.

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you. I've written down those suggestions. I will try being very boring. And I appreciate the feedback on what to say if I keep being pushed to give an answer or talk, which I always am.
My daughter is so smart - she always wins any circular argument. My previous therapist said there's never going to be a right thing to say because she'll always have a drop-down menu of responses. That I should give up trying to say the exact right thing. So far, that has been true.
 

[CC43]

Hi there,

Just to give you an illustration, I tried the grey rock routine with my husband today.  He has been under lately stress because his BPD daughter is showing signs of instability, and we are experiencing some life transitions (and it's clear that the latter is feeding into the BPD daughter's instability).  Though I wouldn't say my husband has BPD, he can be a high-conflict person, and quick to anger, so the gray rock tactic works best with him.  For example, today he was shouting at me, complaining bitterly that I did "nothing" to help, which is patently untrue.  Instead of listing the three or four things I did for him this morning (i.e. using logic and arguing), I stayed silent.  As he got more agitated, I slowly and silently left the room, in order to continue with my tasks (which, by the way, were helping him).  Even as he dredged up other accusations, trying to rile me up, I stayed calm and didn't engage in defending myself.  Eventually he calmed down and apologized!  He has a short fuse, and he can't handle stress very well.  I'm more of a doer than a worrier, and he sometimes is the opposite.  Anyway, the gray rock routine works better with him.  Only when he is calm do I try to remind him all the ways that I support him, in as calm a tone that I can muster.

Now, if you're dealing with someone with BPD, I think it's unlikely that they will actually apologize for their outburst.  If they are in full victim mode, they might not even recognize that their behavior is abusive, because they are convinced that you are responsible.  Nevertheless, I think they will eventually calm down, and possibly egret the outburst, even if they won't admit it.  I think that leads to a path of learning how to self-soothe a little better.

[SoVeryConfused]

That’s an excellent example. Thank you.

I always feel like I have to have an answer, but there’s honestly nothing correct to say in the current scenario where she’s deteriorating badly but won’t get help.

Gray rock may be a relief actually!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders