Verbal abuse,- how do you re-engage?

[SoVeryConfused]

I am not answering calls from my child right now. They have been calling a few times a day, and I never answer.  
So they talk to their dad. I probably would have started answering but got a text over the weekend that they hate me, etc.

My question- if every call is badgering and there are no civil conversations at all, do you ever pick up? I wrote to her I would be willing to talk if it was civil and kind, and she said I have no right to decide what civil or kind is.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Pook075]

I am not answering calls from my child right now. They have been calling a few times a day, and I never answer.  
So they talk to their dad. I probably would have started answering but got a text over the weekend that they hate me, etc.

My question- if every call is badgering and there are no civil conversations at all, do you ever pick up? I wrote to her I would be willing to talk if it was civil and kind, and she said I have no right to decide what civil or kind is.

Great question- and a very tough answer is incoming.

If your daughter was a stranger that spoke to you like that, it would be so very easy to never have anything to do with that person ever again.  Because the reason wouldn't matter, the circumstances wouldn't matter...they were a jerk and you deserve better than that.

But this isn't a stranger, this is your daughter and she's mentally ill.  So much so, that she truly believes that she's the constant victim to your abuse.

It would be so easy to dismiss that statement and blame it on BPD; it's the other way around, right?  She's the one who abuses you by asking for an inch and taking a mile.  I'm sure that's true.  But she's also mentally ill and feels like the entire world is working against her.

In her mind, she feels like she's being abused...which means she's literally being abused by her own thoughts and emotions.  The abuse she feels is real and she struggles with it every day.  It crushes her self image, crushes her spirits, and makes her feel worthless.

All because you're abusing her...which isn't true...but it's true within her mind and she's mentally being abused because of it.  We also know that the mental abuse leads to all sorts of real world physical health problems.

Can you see where I'm going with this?

I am not calling you an abuser.  Yet the tension between the two of you has the exact same effect.  And it would be so easy to say that if it's wasn't the relationship between the two of you bringing her down, then it could be literally anyone else she has major problems with.  That's all true, the problem here isn't you...it's mental illness and the chaos it brings.

Yet this is your daughter and she needs her mom, so she can't walk away either.  It hurts too much.

One of the core trainings in DBT therapy is radical acceptance, which is the process of accepting things the way they are, even when they're uncomfortable or painful.  We practice radical acceptance for BPDs not because they deserve it, not because we owe them, but because it lessens their internal suffering and it helps heal relationships.

If your daughter gets abusive in person or on the phone, then by all means you should walk away.  That's the best move to protect your own mental health.  But at the same time, it is so critically important to realize that your kid isn't just being mean for the heck of it, she's doing it because she's suffering and she's searching for compassion.

So throw her some grace here and there by forgiving the last unfair outburst.  No, you shouldn't take it....never just accept abuse and pretend it's rainbows and unicorns.  Call out right from wrong, then take the appropriate action.  At the same time though, you have to forgive her and let go of who did what.  It's not a fair fight since she's mentally ill; she literally can't be the bigger person when she's unhinged.

Getting back to the question- when should you answer?  In my opinion, every time you can.  But you should also end the call when things turn south and reinforce healthy boundaries...that you love her but her behavior is unacceptable.  Then follow that up with you'll talk to her later.

Why?  Because her biggest fear is being abandoned, it crushes her inside.  It's so very important that you make it known that you're not going anywhere...you're just stepping away for a moment because she's harming your mental health.

I hope that helps!

[CC43]

I can relate to the hate calls. Do you cringe when you hear the phone ring?  It’s because you know she’s calling just to unleash hatred or frustration, or to make unrealistic demands.

My policy is to answer as soon as I’m able. If I get a tirade, I’ll say something like, if you’re calling just to yell at me, I’m hanging up, and if she continues yelling, I hang up. Fair enough?

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you. These were hard answers to read!

But as much as you all practice such good boundaries, if you are still urging grace and to pick up the phone, that says something.

I’ll admit, I’m afraid to call back. I dread it. I’m afraid to
Open the door again - that’s probably because I do struggle with boundaries and end up agreeing to - saying things I don’t want to do.and feeling guilty for what I won’t do. Or scared to not have the right response. All of it.

And you guys are right. I’m her mom. And im giving her the cold shoulder because I was so close to the edge of my
Own sanity. I just want to avoid it all.

I greatly appreciate the honesty and candor- I read your responses closely because I value the insights - thank you for being real.

[CC43]

I’m reminded of my much younger brother when he was around 3 or 4.  He had this habit of communicating neediness and frustration through loud, whiny crying. My response to him was, I’m sorry, I don’t understand you when you use that voice. And then I’d wait patiently in silence. Eventually he’d use words (not whining), and when he did, I’d attend to his needs. Eventually he kicked the habit. It may be that communication with BPD is similar. If you engage when there is out-of-control yelling or crying, everyone is too tense to communicate, and the conversation spirals in the wrong direction.

[Resiliant]

I would like to weigh in on this one, if it's okay and I'd love to hear your responses.

From what I gathered, Pook's response was "when you can, as often as you can", and CC's answer was "when I am able".   In my case, I agree with both and my answer is "when I am ready".

When I am in the right frame of mind I can re-connect without JADEing, without jumping on the rollercoaster and with love and compassion.

I know that when I have my son blocked, he can find ways around it and that works because it's waaay too easy for him to use voice-to-text and bomb me all day long. 

Also, imagine the dynamic being a little different when it is a grown man shouting verbal abuse at a woman (his mother).  In no case, man, woman or child is it okay however it really stirs up my self-preservation senses as I have already dealt with that from his father when I was young.  I don't want to give myself away here as I could say a lot to help you understand but I will just say that I learned at a young age that removing myself from the situation until things calmed down was the best and safest way.

This morning, after my shower and with a calm and fresh mind I wrote him a compassionate email using a combination of SET and BIFF.  I didn't respond to any particular one of his 60-some emails that he sent in the last few days, I started a new one.  I am trying to do this once a week.  So, he hears from me and no, it's not on his timing but he can count on it.

How many times have you heard someone here say "I'm at my breaking point or I'm exhausted or I can't take it anymore... the list goes on and on.  I had a therapist tell me once there is a reason why on an airplane you put your own mask on first, and then your child's.   If we don't take care of our own emotional health and only put our child first then we are not in a position to help at all.  That doesn't make us bad parents.  It doesn't mean that we aren't loving parents.   Very loving spouses have had to make the difficult decision to place their partner in a home after an alzheimer's diagnosis.  It doesn't mean the love isn't there or that they are lazy or not a good partner.

My son has been through a lot of trauma, having a BPD/Asperger's father (who is otherwise a good person) and from my own husband who could not understand and who reacted in the most opposite way one should (who is also otherwise a very good person). 
He has only an ADHD/LD diagnosis but shows co-morbidity with aspergers/ASD, and bi-polar.   It is the bi-polar side that I am waiting patiently for things to subside and life to become as normal as possible again as long as nobody trips him up.

SoveryConfused - I loved your response too.  I agree that trying something new has worked in the past and I am open to it.

That's all for now - any responses are appreciated!

R

[Resiliant]

… and yes, the threat of suicide is still very real.   

[SoVeryConfused]

Thank you too, Resilient. I appreciate the addition of- when I am ready.

And that it’s not because we are holding a grudge but because with a pause, we can come back yo the conversation in a more calm, thoughtful position.thats also a really mindful way to look at this.

And I think I could communicate that directly with words like- child, I acknowledge your calls and am thinking about you too. I’m trying to do things differently meaning come to our conversations with more listening and thoughtfulness than I did before. I need a little more time to prepare my mind, but will reach out to you tomorrow/later etc. Love you.

I’m sorry for the hardship with your son. I have lots of practicing to do - your insights are so welcome!

[CC43]

Hi again Confused,

I really like your response.  I wonder if you might test it to see if it works, and let us know if it does!  However, from a pwBPD perspective, I fear your response might seem (a) somewhat needy and (b) laden with emotional content.  For a person with BPD, I think it's already overwhelming for them to deal with their own emotions, so adding your emotions on top could complicate matters.

You say, " I acknowledge your calls and am thinking about you too. I’m trying to do things differently meaning come to our conversations with more listening and thoughtfulness than I did before. I need a little more time to prepare my mind, but will reach out to you tomorrow/later etc. Love you."  With BPD twisted logic, this might be interpreted as:  "Parent wants to be more thoughtful, well it's too late, why didn't they think before they messed up my entire childhood, they are so abusive, they don't know what's coming.  How ironic, "Love you," yeah right, if they loved me, they would stop abusing me and give me what I want NOW!"

But I'd encourage you to try it, to see if it works!  If I had any advice, I'd say shorten it as much as possible, to reduce the chances that your kid gets derailed before finishing reading it, and perhaps reduce the emotional content.  Maybe try a shortened version:  "I got your calls, and I promise I'll call back tomorrow/later as soon as I can give you my full attention."  Does that make sense?  I wouldn't add the "Love you," unless that's how you always end your messages, in which case, I'd say leave that in, because the absence of the "Love you" could be triggering.

[Resiliant]

SoVery, I have done that.  With the silly hope that when I said that sending a quick reaction without thinking it through has not worked well in the past it would have him reflect on his own instant reactions too.   Not!

CC was right.  The response that I got was "Oh, so you need more time to drum up some more lies.  If you were honest then you wouldn't have to think about it.  If you were honest then you could respond right away so obviously you aren't being honest."

Sigh.

R

[Pook075]

If my kid said that to me, I'd respond with, "I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings in any way, that wasn't my intention.  But when things get heated between us, it's better for me to take a step back and calm down before responding.  I don't like being upset and I hate when we argue since I love you and want the best for you."

Maybe my kid fires back again, or maybe she realizes she's being a jerk (and goes silent...she'd never openly admit she was wrong to dad, LOL).

Whatever happens though, I frame it as something going on with me....when we fight, it hurts me.  So I'm taking a step back.

And regardless of what my kid says next, I'm sticking to my boundary and not getting dragged into an argument or the blame-game.

So at face value, yup...your response failed.  But if you say it every time, with love and compassion, then it becomes a very predictable thing.  If I argue, you're withdrawing, and I'm not getting whatever it is that I want right now.

She can say whatever she wants after that...don't respond, don't take the bait.  If she blows up your phone, then turn it off for a few hours.  If it's worse than that, block her outright.

Maybe she bypasses that...and that's fine.  The goal isn't to avoid her or to block her.  It's only to say, "When we start to argue, I'm taking a self imposed time out."  That's the lesson here, the whole goal of all this...teaching right from wrong in small increments.

At 26, my BPD kid gets it.  If she comes at me sideways, dad is not going to help and it's going to be a 1-minute phone call.  I don't respond well to threats or blame, and I'm not going to argue over anything.  If you treat me well, then I treat you well....that's the only path towards us having a healthy relationship.

My kid blew up more times than I could count, but she eventually understood that I loved her and I was doing what was best for both of us.  I just wasn't going to argue or accept abuse anymore.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders