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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Conflicted more each week about staying. Thinking about exit strategy.  (Read 574 times)
campbembpd
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« on: March 26, 2025, 02:16:32 PM »

I'm scared. I'm disappointed. I wish I wish I knew a way to make it better. I've been posting here for over a year now and just no progress. If anything behaviors continue to escalate. It feels like the months and years keep ticking by and I'm no where closer to feeling like things are going to change.

My uBPDw's behavior has escalated the past few weeks. As I step away more and don't engage with her when she has emotional outbursts, she ramps it up. In addition to the normal screaming, yelling and general hostility. Just the past few weeks she's: told me she wants me dead, at least she would get the money [life insurance], threatened to leave me and take our son out of the country where her family lives (he's an intellectually disabled adult, we have joint guardianship and he has dual citizenship) and last weekend she was drunk and climbed on top of me to restrain me causing a bruise in my chest and a scratch (superficial) on my arm (I took photos of those). I talked about some of this in the bettering board. She is seeing a psych next week and says she wants to go on medication that makes her sick if she drinks alcohol. She knows she has a problem but at the same time says she'll never be 100% sober, she just wants to cut down. But she's lying to me about continuing to take marijuana nightly and there's still no diagnosis. I suppose there's a thread of hope the psych may actual diagnose her. Maybe she'll get treatment but maybe (and you people please tell me) could it help with decisions if she is diagnosed with a mental illness and/or substance abuse? My kids are adults but we have our son with disabilities. My main concerns are getting sole guardianship of him, division of assets and alimony I would have to pay. Ideally she would be removed from the house or choose to leave and get her own place. I think one of my biggest fears is my adult disabled son and adult daughter not having me there. I would feel like the biggest piece of you know what if I had to leave and they were with her. Not just because of her outbursts but because I have no doubt she would say things to try to manipulate them into thinking I'm bad since she'll have completely split me and will 'know' that I am.

I'm terrified if I'm being honest. I've seen how she treats me now when she's married to me and is acting out because of fear of abandonment, etc. She acts like she absolutely hates me once she splits me. How bad is it going to get if I tell her I'm divorcing her?

So I'm starting to prepare and really think about things. I don't want to rush. I just re-listened to Splitting and SWOG for Partners. I just got a gift card to setup a pre-paid phone that I'm planning to activate and use to talk with Lawyers. I'm going through my journals and voice recordings over the past years. I don't have a lot in early years but I have some going back 5 years, more so in the recent couple of years. I'm trying to document document document episodes of abuse and hostility where I have audio or video evidence. It's really quite sad how she sounds the same 5 years ago as she does today. Hearing my kids cry, hearing her scream and yell or be patronizing. As I listen more it's like the fog is lifting of how bad this situation is. 

So a couple of things I need to do - one is I really want to find a lawyer who understands. I want to find a referral but don't know if I should reveal my general location, do people do that here? If not I've listened to splitting a few times and I guess it's just meeting with different ones but it just feels like a very important decision and I would feel better knowing someone like me has had success.

Again, we don't have minor kids. This is going to be mainly about alimony, division of assets/debts and guardianship of our disabled son.

I'm not 100% but I'm nearly there in terms of realizing divorce may be the only way to live a sane life. I want to be strategic and thoughtful about what I do. In no way do I want to 'screw' her but I am expecting her to want to screw with me in most ways she can. I'm guessing this will take 6-12 months for me to make a decision. A lot of that will hinge on how she handles increasing boundaries especially with the substance use. She's gone so nuts at times I feel like as I step up my boundaries and take less abuse, she may actually follow through with the threats to leave and do the final discard/devaluation. Or her behavior may escalate where I may be forced to speed things up, i.e. increased physical violence, etc.

I read some other people have had some good experiences calling the domestic abuse hotline. I would love to hear what other people say about it and the help they can offer. I feel so strange being a man thinking about calling a DV hotline.     
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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2025, 03:14:16 PM »

I think one of my biggest fears is my adult disabled son and adult daughter not having me there. I would feel like the biggest piece of you know what if I had to leave and they were with her. Not just because of her outbursts but because I have no doubt she would say things to try to manipulate them into thinking I'm bad since she'll have completely split me and will 'know' that I am.

I'm terrified if I'm being honest. How bad is it going to get if I tell her I'm divorcing her?


I can't speak to the divorce desicion but perhaps from the view of your daughter and also from the relationship with my BPD mother as an adult.

IMHO, do not tell her you want a divorce at the moment. This is not being dishonest. This is being protective right now, because, emotionally, you are not in a good place and truly have not taken solid steps to make divorce a reality. All this would do is escalate the situation. In the care of DV- people are advised to have an escape plan and not tell because of the risk of escalating the physical abuse which could be dangerous. If you proceed with divorce, telling her is way down the line. A lot of planning and counseling will be need to happen before this.

From your description of your daughter, my best guess is that she knows more than you think about the situation. She doesn't understand it all yet (I had no real understanding of marriage, of BPD dynamics, or how actually affected my BPD mother but I did know she was disordered in some way, alcohol use. Yes, she did say things to me about my father but it was pretty obvious what was real and what was just her talking.

IMHO, the best thing you can do for your D is get her "launched" into a 4 year college (you have said in other posts she does well academically) and living on campus, away from the chaos, and drama of the situation, and away from being targeted by her BPD mother. Be sure she knows you aren't abandoning her and are there for her as her father, and also are supporting her academic/career goals. Help your D to become independent in a career she is interested in.

For me, going to college, away from home, was something I needed to do. I went to a state college as it was more affordable. Don't overlook private colleges as sometimes they may have good scholarships for qualifying students.

For your son, he is getting older too. Young people with intellectual disabilities still want to be independent and productive to the extent they can be. There may be options such as group homes, supervised employment. You may still need to be a legal guardian for him but he may have better options than living with his mother, and it may be better for him to live as independently as possible.

This is for the future but may be part of your divorce plans if you go that route. For now, your main concern is your own mental health and safety. Your kids need you to be at your best self, so this is also an investment in them too. 



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ForeverDad
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2025, 04:25:12 PM »

If you are trying to repair a relationship then you do try to share as much as practical in order to rebuild trust.  Of course, success depends upon both spouses working toward that goal of trust.

On the other hand, if you decide that the relationship is failing or has failed, then you do NOT share sensitive information, instead limiting it to appropriate parenting details and appropriate financial matters.

You do have a right to privacy and confidentiality.  What might that sensitive information be to be considered "private and confidential"?  Some examples would be you consulting counselors, legal professionals and whatever advice and strategies they may provide you.  Why?  Because if you share that information, your spouse may use that to try to sabotage you and your parenting.

When I divorced, I decided to change my insurance beneficiary, which until then had been my spouse.  But my son was a minor so I was advised to list him with the clause "in trust for (child) pursuant to will dated m/d/y."  That way you could designate a trustee or process to follow your instructions how the insurance would be dispersed to son's benefit, without leaving your ex in charge of those funds.
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HurtAndTired
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2025, 04:41:09 PM »

Hey Camp,

It's good to hear from you, even under these difficult circumstances. I read in another post where someone said that they spent years addicted to "hopium." I know that was surely true for me. I kept hoping that my wife would finally realize that she was sick and needed treatment, and that she would get that treatment and be better. I was being delusional. I have been with her for 13 years, and she does not have the capacity for accepting blame that would be necessary to successfully complete any type of meaningful treatment. In our 3 failed tries at marriage counseling, each time the counselor started to suggest that she needed to work on her own issues before we could work on our issues as a couple, my wife would quit the counseling. From our previous back and forth, I think that you are probably in a similar situation.

Getting off "hopium" made things clear to me. While I am not looking forward to the process of divorcing, and am still afraid of not getting as much custody of our son as I want, I do realize that I can't continue living my life like this and just hoping that it will get better. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. I am also looking forward to having peace and stability in my life post-divorce. The amount of trauma that I have been through has caused me to be diagnosed with C-PTSD. I will be working that out in therapy for years, but at least I won't be exposing myself to additional trauma.

The advice that I can give you as someone who is in the early stages of planning to file in a year is somewhat limited, however, I will share what I have learned with you in hopes that it can save you some time, effort, and heartache.

1. The first part is to get your financial house in order. Figure out where you are with your credit score, your total debt, your DTI, and what you need to do to make those numbers look as good as possible in the shortest amount of time possible (think of having to apply for mortgages in the not-too-distant future). Close joint accounts with your wife if you have them. Open bank accounts in your name only. Pay down as much debt as you can and put the family on a budget. You will have to be able to support your family post-divorce and provide them with a place to live. Your wife will not be able to be financially stable enough to entrust responsibility to her.

DO NOT let her know why you are doing this! I remember that you said that she is addicted to spending and demands that you buy things that you cannot afford all the time. Make this about that! You have been concerned about finances for a long time and it is time that you start making financial changes to improve your financial health for the sake of the family. This is not a lie, it is just omitting some information about all of the reasons why.

2. Come up with a realistic timeline of how long you can stay while still getting your financial ducks in a row. Once the money train was cut off, my wife started getting really grouchy. In my case, however, she spends most of her money on herself (we don't have a joint bank account or credit cards - thank GOD). She was just cut off from me spending my money on her. I will have the majority of my debt paid off by next January. I am hoping to file soon after.

I want to make sure that I am in a financial position to either keep our house or buy another one. My son is going to be 4 soon, and we have a dog with special needs that requires a fenced-in backyard that he can access on an as-needed basis. Moving into an apartment is not an option. Given the deteriorating state of our marriage, I might have to move that timeline up a bit. My parents have offered to help me pay off a chunk of debt (mostly racked up on vacations and gifts, trying to appease my wife) in case I have to move faster than planned.

3. Document, document, document. It sounds like you are already doing this, but you may have to step it up. Make sure that you always have a recorder on you. I recommend a watch that records audio and video. My lawyer told me that if I can get footage of her verbally and emotionally abusing me in front of our son that the courts really frown on that kind of behavior. With your son being a dependent adult, I am not sure how that comes into play legally, but her yelling at you in front of him cannot be positively seen by the courts.

Likewise, documenting her alcohol and drug abuse around a dependent adult will be frowned on by the court. You need to protect your son as much as you can, and that means proving that she is not fit to look out for his best interests beyond a shadow of a doubt. I know that this feels icky. It feels icky to me, too, but from everything I have read, I expect her to show no mercy to me in court once papers are filed. The one benefit I have in my favor is time. I know this is coming and can plan and prepare. She does not have that luxury.

I do not want to keep my wife from seeing our son, but I sure don't want her to be around him when she is drunk and angry. I will let the court decide what to do, but I am going to do my best to show how she is when she is behind closed doors. I have realized that reduced custody may even be to my wife's benefit. If they were to limit her to supervised visits for a while (for example), who knows, it might be the motivation that she needs to stop drinking and actually seek psychological help. All I know is that when Mommy is drunk and yelling, my boy is scared. I want that to stop.

As a final note about recording, plan on recording every interaction you have with her once you file. This is to protect you from false charges of abuse. I have heard people recommend wearing a body camera and letting your spouse know that they are always being recorded as a way to help fend off misbehavior before it even starts.

4. Call the DV hotline and ask what local services are available for people who are in an abusive relationship. The DV hotline connected me to a wonderful local non-profit group in my city, which assigned a social worker to me to work as my advocate. I now check in with her once a week. My advocate is helping to advise me during this year, leading up to filing. I could turn to my lawyer at around $300 an hour, but this would get expensive fast, and this pre-divorce stuff isn't really a lawyer's specialty. My advocate is a licensed social worker who is working for me at no cost. She is arranging for my son to get into play therapy. She has also been advising me on what to document and how to document it to place me in the best light in court. She even told me that she could get emergency housing at no cost for my son and me if we ever get into a situation where we don't feel safe. It feels amazing to have someone on my team helping me through this, and it never would have happened if I hadn't made that call.

5. Don't drink anymore when your wife is around. Even a few beers can cause you to lose inhibitions, and you will end up taking the bait when she is trying to pull you into an argument. You are going to need to have your wits about you at all times. You may have to hop in the car and drive your kids to a different location if her behavior becomes unsafe, and you can't do that if you have been drinking. I think that I remember you have already been taking a break from alcohol. I am planning on having a celebratory beer when this is all over, and maybe one or two if I ever have a day or two vacation away from my wife before then (she goes on a trip to visit her mom, etc.), but I will definitely never be drinking around her again.

6. Limit your conversations with your wife to exchanging necessary information and surface-level pleasantries. Use the BIFF principle. I try to keep all exchanges with my wife positive, neutral and remove myself from the situation as soon as she goes negative. There is nothing to be gained from engaging with her when she is negative. Now that I am no longer trying to salvage the unsalvagable marriage, there is no need for me to validate and worry about how she is feeling. As soon as she starts going off on me, peace out. This also reduces the chances of her trying to use things you say or do against you.

I'm sure that this list is far from comprehensive. There are probably things that I am forgetting to include. There are surely things that I have yet to discover that I need that are not included as well.

As strange as it sounds, coming to the realization that my marriage is beyond saving has been freeing. I no longer have to worry about my wife's needs and dysregulation. That is a "her problem", not a "me problem." I can now concentrate on trying to do what is best for my son and for me, which is where my focus should have been all along. This is not to say that I ignore or am cruel to my wife. Just that I don't engage in arguments with her anymore, and nothing she says hurts me anymore. I still treat her with respect and kindness. I still hope for the best for her (but not for us). I still hope that someday she gets the help she needs. For her sake, but mostly for our son's sake. However, that is no longer my concern. That is her concern.

The final thing that I want to say to you is not to beat yourself up over this. You tried everything in the book...and then you tried it again...and then you read a different book and tried all that stuff too. The truth is that your wife will never get better until she decides that it is time for her to get better. There is nothing that you could do to change that. You have put forth superhuman effort trying to take care of her and your kids. It is now time for you to take care of yourself so that you can concentrate on taking care of your kids. You are not a failure as a husband, a father, or a man. You have shown the tolerance and patience that most saints would not be capable of. It is time to turn some of that care and mercy in on yourself and heal.

I'll be praying for you and your kids. You've got this!

HurtAndTired
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campbembpd
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2025, 09:31:49 AM »

Thanks for the comments.

NW - I get what you're saying how it could be better for my daughter to be away from this. My daughter is going to school locally and she has struggled a little academically since starting college a couple of semesters ago. She wants to be financially smart and stay at home, she's happy to go to the local 4 year college. I may be able to cover her tuition for now but I can't in anyway pay for her to go away or live away from the house and I couldn't in good conscious tell her to take 10's of thousands in student loan debt to live in her own place. It would be a 180 from what we've instilled from her and would feel like I was kicking her out. I think she may get engaged in the next year however.

Also my son is in some vocational training programs so the long term goal is he would be employed in some fashion. He would be unsafe to live alone but slowly working towards as much independence as possible.

FD - thanks - I will at some point need to change the beneficiary of my life insurance and plan on establishing a trust to ensure my son is taken care of. Honestly I am planning for this whether or not we stay together. My wife does not think we need to plan for our son's future long terms which is confusing to me. When she wants to keep spending one point I raise again and again is the issue of needing to ensure we're investing and saving enough not just for our retirement but something to leave him when we're gone... I have life insurance right now but God willing I'll outlive that. She just says vague things like her family will take care of him. If something happened to me and she got the whole of my life insurance I don't have any confidence she would be able to manage those funds and make them last for her.

H&T - I feel you've been on a similar path to me but you're a little ahead of where I am. I appreciate your words and seeing your journey unfold.

1. Yes working on the finances but it is difficult. The changes I've made have made it that for the first time in the last 8 years we're not increasing our debt month over month. I'm even able to put some away and pay down some debt every month as well. Unless I get another revenue stream it's going to be hard to reduce any more. My uBPDw is getting increased hours and converted to a regular employee from a contractor so assuming we're together for at least 6-12 months we will see another financial counselor, once they review the situation they she will need to contribute more to the joint finances. Also I am scared of the reaction she will have with one of my next boundaries which is I will not be buying her alcohol. If she wants to drink she will need to pay for it herself. I will tell her if I choose to drink again I will need to pay for it myself. And on that note - I haven't drank in 3 months and not planning to any time soon, definitely not around her. I expect a big rage and a lot of animosity around this one so I'm working the courage up to set it.

2. Will look into specific timelines but would realistically take years to pay off all debt even with her contributing more so I don't think I can use that. Just trying to save as much as possible, pay down a reasonable amount of debt. Will need to consult with lawyer but would hope assets and debts would be split evenly (I have no idea how realistic that is). We have enough equity where I could pay off my 1/2 of the debt and have enough for 20% on a home purchase with some left for savings so feeling not terrible about that (assuming debts/assets are split).

3. Documenting, yes I'm stepping it up. We have security cameras in the house so I'm starting to download footage as saving that as relevant. Also recording as much as possible. A watch would be funny, she knows I don't like wearing watches and stopped even wearing a new apple watch last year. It would look fishy I think if I started wearing one but I do keep my 2nd phone on voice record pretty much all the time now. I've also taken photos and videos around the house of all the items in the home, including jewelry, etc.

4. I do want to call the DV hotline. I don't know why but it's a scary step and feels silly being a man. But I know it's not. I was considering calling them before contacting lawyers wondering if they may have an idea of services and if those may even provide lawyer recommendations.

5. No drinking, not even tempted right now. And for sure not around her.

6. Conversations can be hard, sometimes they feel very surface level since a lot of anything might trigger her. I haven't 100% given up and am trying to make things pleasant, fun. Still taking her out on dates, etc. She is going to therapy and trying a psych. Maybe it's still a little hopium but I will put forth effort if she is really making changes. But it won't stop me from preparing for the worst and continuing to implement boundaries to protect myself. 
 
I am to the point where I 100% know her dysregulations are indeed a her problem, not a me problem. I have to keep reminding myself that but I know it's true. (but it grinds me bad that she's telling others lies and exaggerations and definitely not telling the truth about the facts of her behavior - and that she believes much of it!). I've realized that there's no excuse for abusive behavior which is what she tried to justify herself tome with (well I did x so of course she was screaming, I "made" her feel xyz so that's just how she talks). I've listened to so many hours of audio, read so many journals and others have witnessed our interactions and while I haven't been the perfect husband I've never certainly never been abusive. I've been far too tolerant for too long while she's created an environment of hostility for me and our kids. And not to say she's always like that. If she was I guess it would be much easier to exit. Much of the time she can be fun, outgoing, sexy, a good conversationalist and exhibit a lot of good qualities.
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PeteWitsend
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2025, 09:41:00 AM »

... I think one of my biggest fears is my adult disabled son and adult daughter not having me there. I would feel like the biggest piece of you know what if I had to leave and they were with her. Not just because of her outbursts but because I have no doubt she would say things to try to manipulate them into thinking I'm bad since she'll have completely split me and will 'know' that I am. ...

Here's the thing, you can't control a pwBPD, and they will lie, cheat, and steal and make up complete falsehoods about you, regardless of whether you stay or leave her, or how you treat her while leaving.  Being fair gets you nothing.  So do what's best for you and your son, and take her reaction out of the equation.  

Concern for my kids was a major thing holding me back, but after talking to people and sharing my concerns here, I realized this.  And I also realized that while I was with BPDxw, I couldn't shield my D from her behavior and from fighting, and also BPDxw was making it hard for my D to have a relationship with my extended family.  So even though I would likely not get full custody, or even primary custody, at least I could show my D the life I wanted her to see the 45% or so of the time she was with me.  

...I'm terrified if I'm being honest. I've seen how she treats me now when she's married to me and is acting out because of fear of abandonment, etc. She acts like she absolutely hates me once she splits me. How bad is it going to get if I tell her I'm divorcing her?

...

Come up with plans to protect yourself.  Record conversations (practice using the technology first, since you don't want technical issues to surface in the heat of the moment).  Consider calling that DV hotline so you understand how it will go if you do have to call the cops.  Play these scenarios out in your head and if you're too paralyzed with fear, talk to other people; use them as a sounding board to check yourself.  

I read somewhere it's natural to have extreme thoughts and fears, because it's how our minds quantify and conceptualize risks we face.  Some people are more sensitive to this than others, and it can make them overly cautious.  I am, in a way, like this too.  But you can't let it prevent you from acting when you need to.  
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GaGrl
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2025, 10:29:13 AM »

You mention you have been buying alcohol for her but will not be doing so in future.

Do you have a way to go back and document how much alcohol you have purchased? This is a way to document how much she is consuming and might have some relevance down the road.
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2025, 06:01:38 AM »

Thanks for the comments.

I couldn't in good conscious tell her to take 10's of thousands in student loan debt to live in her own place. It would be a 180 from what we've instilled from her

My wife does not think we need to plan for our son's future long terms which is confusing to me. When she wants to keep spending one point I raise again and again is the issue of needing to ensure we're investing and saving enough not just for our retirement

She just says vague things like her family will take care of him.

I don't have any confidence she would be able to manage those funds and make them last for her.


My best guess, from what you have posted about your D, is that she's learned money management skills. The concerning issue is your financial situation with your wife.

I think your concern about saving money for your son's well being is valid- but a logical approach with your wife over money may not be effective. There is an emotional aspect to money and a logical one. The logical one is numbers, reason, and common sense, but this kind of  spending seems to be emotionally driven.

IMHO, if you want any funds to be available for your son's needs- they need to be managed by someone else who is trustworthy, not your wife, and she can not have access to them.

These may not be your most urgent concerns as there is the relationship and what you wish to do to focus on.
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2025, 03:29:14 PM »

IMHO, if you want any funds to be available for your son's needs- they need to be managed by someone else who is trustworthy, not your wife, and she can not have access to them.

These may not be your most urgent concerns as there is the relationship and what you wish to do to focus on.

You can change your insurance and retirement beneficiary information at any time.*  The exception would be if she bought the policy on you, in which case she controls the policy.

What you cannot do now is remove her from your workplace healthcare coverage, not until a divorce is final, at which time she can seek her own coverage or utilize short term COBRA coverage.  If she's currently got other coverage from her work or elsewhere, then this isn't an issue.
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2025, 04:37:55 PM »

You can change your insurance and retirement beneficiary information at any time.

Yes, but if she is the guardian for your son, she will still control his money. Someone needs to be guardian for his assets in the event ( hopefully not happening) that you are not able to be.

A logical person is probably his sister. (as long as the funds are his and not hers as it is subject to marital property- an attorney can help establish a care trust for him, and it's a good idea to set this up regardless of if you stay or leave your marriage.

I agree to not share marital issues with your D but she may be thinking the same concerns about her brother. I wouldn't impose this role on her if she doesn't want it, but she may want to be next as guardian for him.


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