still reeling

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Been on and off for 6 years with my bpd ex gf. I believe it’s finally over. I wanted things to end, i knew they had to eventually if i was ever going to be truly happy again. She took so much out of me, couldn’t focus on work or any of my goals. Everything had to always be about her. It was so exhausting. I loved her though, I knew she was “off” but I wanted to be there for her and her kids and show them life didn’t have to suck.

In the end she discredited anything good I ever brought to the relationship and told me I was doing the “bare minimum”. I left to visit my family and handle some business and she broke up with me cause I took too long. Then offered me to come back and changed her mind cause I didn’t leave immediately. Claiming i prioritized my family over her. I asked her to give me a couple days. Now im staying with family 16 hours away missing my job and looking at apts. Part of me wants to return and get my own place for work, while the other part of me doesn’t know if ots safe to return. I don’t know if I can trust myself to not try and work things out (again). If she’s moved on and made it impossible to get back together then I also don’t know if i’ll be ok (happy) living in the same town.

At this point my only options are to get my own place back there or stay here and start all over. I made more money out there.

[semiok]

Been on and off for 6 years with my bpd ex gf. I believe it’s finally over. I wanted things to end, i knew they had to eventually if i was ever going to be truly happy again. She took so much out of me, couldn’t focus on work or any of my goals. Everything had to always be about her. It was so exhausting. I loved her though, I knew she was “off” but I wanted to be there for her and her kids and show them life didn’t have to suck.

In the end she discredited anything good I ever brought to the relationship and told me I was doing the “bare minimum”. I left to visit my family and handle some business and she broke up with me cause I took too long. Then offered me to come back and changed her mind cause I didn’t leave immediately. Claiming i prioritized my family over her. I asked her to give me a couple days. Now im staying with family 16 hours away missing my job and looking at apts. Part of me wants to return and get my own place for work, while the other part of me doesn’t know if ots safe to return. I don’t know if I can trust myself to not try and work things out (again). If she’s moved on and made it impossible to get back together then I also don’t know if i’ll be ok (happy) living in the same town.

At this point my only options are to get my own place back there or stay here and start all over. I made more money out there.

[Pook075]

That's a tough call and ultimately, it comes down to your own willpower.  Each of us is different in how well we can avoid people who are toxic in our lives.

You mentioned that the money is better in the area she lives- but life isn't just about money.  Being close to your family is also worth quite a bit, and I'm guessing that's where many of your friends are as well.  Right now you need support from those closest to you.

The biggest thing is taking time to process what happened and actually heal from this relationship.  I'm sure she's a great gal when she's stable, but from what you're saying she hasn't been stable in quite some time.  You have no control over that and if you go back to her, it's only a matter of time before the bad stuff comes out. 

The only way she gets past that is taking therapy seriously and putting in the work.  Nobody can force her though, she has to want it.  And until that happens, her relationship problems will repeat like this pattern.

Stay strong my friend and make this decision with an open mind.  Give yourself some time to heal and reflect before making a hasty decision.  You'll get there in time.

[semiok]

thank you for your insight and advice. last night i got an offer to move back over there and room with a friend. i felt excited about it, i can get back and i won’t be alone. my friend has also dealt with alot of women on the spectrum. i felt confident i could go back and stay busy and move on.

but today, today my brain is wondering about her. i see myself standing outside work and her driving by like she used to after a breakup. and how i would cave and text her.. and when i wouldn’t how she would still flood my brain. how i would subconsciously wait for some sort of engagement and how i would sabotage any progress i’ve made. even leave a new love interest just to go back and do it all again.

i’ve read books. walking on egg shells, stop caretaking the borderline narcissist, a few other. none of them really help with how to not go back. they all just explain what’s going on with the bpd person. do any of you guys have any book recommendations on the post breakup part. how to get over anything, let go, accept and move on. i can’t afford therapy, no insurance.

[ThanksForPlaying]

Creating ultimatums and false conflicts between you and your family and friends is, as you've noted, a sign of disordered thinking.  There are many women out there who will respect your existing relationships and even enjoy being around your family and friends.

Of course, this is the one who's gotten into your head.  She does sound like a good person when she's not acting 'off'.  Now is probably a good time to really work on yourself.  Make your decisions based on what you want.  If she pops back into the picture, fine, but you'll want to be in a place where you feel comfortable on your own.  I think you'll find she actually starts making more attempts at contact the more you focus on yourself and start making independent decisions.

[semiok]

and the thought of that scares the PLEASE READ out of me. i’ll be working on myself, getting over her, getting used to being alone and at any given time she can unblock me and message me. i love her and i wish i didn’t .i love her kids and cared for them. she mentioned my calm added balance to the chaos she claimed to thrive in. the things i chose to accept and let fly. the things she got away with and i still went back are unfathomable. i wish i could just.. get amnesia. forget.

i need to find a way to forgive myself. forgive myself for allowing and loving someone who treated me like that. i could have had any other woman i wanted but i wanted her. i cared for her, i wanted to make her happy, but i couldn’t. she told me once that she was a blackhole and i should have really listened.

sorry, for venting. but i need to not get back with her and i need to stomp out any thought that she’ll be back again to haunt me. it gives me hope and i know that it’s not the good kind. it’s a dead end, there’s no way it was ever meant to last..

[ThanksForPlaying]

Sounds like you have a pretty clear idea of where you'd like to be mentally.  The money is better there, but the family support and mental freedom is much better 16 hours away.  Kind of depends on how those things outweigh each other, right?  Money isn't everything, but it can definitely sway a decision if it's a LOT more money.  Are there any other pros and cons you're looking at?

[semiok]

the pros over there are my job where i make more and i guess i have status over there. not that its important right now, but with that comes more love interests. the weathers nicer, not as hot. that’s about it, aside from that i can take my dog with me to work also.

the cons out there are it’s a small town. i’m bound to run into her, someone in her family, one of her old friends, clients, exs. there isn’t much to do out there. i have no family over there and my only friends are really the people i work with and people i meet at work (clients).

pros over here im near family. currently staying with my mom while im looking for at places to work where i can hopefully make decent money doing the same thing. my old friends are here all though they all have family units now and dont get to really hang out. cost of living is a little cheaper but the pay is too.

cons over here are the money, the weather (hot), no status or clients. basically have to start all over. and sometimes being near my family feels like a negative since they don’t understand what i’m feeling or going through. the other con is that i feel lonely, and i don’t know if that’s cause i subconsciously still long to be with her or if it’s because im just not busy at my old job.. or both.

[semiok]

i’ve read about cognitive dissonance and that’s definitely something i’m struggling with. i forgot how to trust my gut.. i’ve betrayed it so many times and went back to her. i have a hard time deciding on things.. people will ask me. what do you want to do? i don’t have an answer..

[HoratioX]

I was with mine on and off about the same amount of time. I finally broke it off permanently and went no contact.

You only have one family, but you can have many, many girlfriends throughout your life. Which is more important to you?

No contact was the best solution for me. We'd broken up multiple times, and in nearly every one of those, she wanted to get back together. Among other things, she'd throw sex at me, and that's a pretty strong incentive given she was good at it and beautiful. But that's like saying it's okay to eat a poisonous flower because it looks good.

If I were in your place, I'd stay away from her. You make some good points about the job and all that, but at the same time, on some level, they sound like an excuse to go back and be near her.

Now, fairly early in the relationship my instincts told me that she was "off." At first, not in a toxic way but in a cute, charming way. She was a lot like Suzanne Sommers on Three's Company. As time went on, I understood more and more how profoundly troubled she was.

The smartest thing I did was not let our lives intertwine so much that untangling them would be difficult. We did not live together, for instance, which unless you're really sure about the other person, is always a big mistake in romantic relationships. So, when I ended things, it was pretty much a clean break.

It was for the best, as time has shown. While you should also talk with a therapist, I'd say moving on with your life and not putting yourself in a position to be pulled into the toxic situation again is the best course of action.

[Pook075]

i’ve read about cognitive dissonance and that’s definitely something i’m struggling with. i forgot how to trust my gut.. i’ve betrayed it so many times and went back to her. i have a hard time deciding on things.. people will ask me. what do you want to do? i don’t have an answer..

When folks are in BPD relationships, they enter into it thinking they found the love of their live that validates everything and offers endless support.  It's magical, it's perfect, and who wouldn't want that, right?

As the relationship unfolds and reaches different stages, the BPD starts to question how perfect their partner really is, and their behavior changes.  We should have been like, "Woah, huge red flag here..." but we don't because we love this person, so we overlook what would normally be a fairly big deal.

But the BPD continues to spiral while facing their own trauma and disordered thinking, and the relationship begins to unwind.  Why?  Because there're not okay and they're second-guessing everything.  They doubt you really love them and expect you to leave, so they unconsciously sabotage the relationship to ensure it happens.

It's sad for everyone involved, everyone gets their heart ripped out in the process.

What you're "looking for" is that initial love, that crazy connection.  But during that period, she was overlooking all of your quirks and faults and just seeing her dream person.  Once she realized that the fantasy version of you didn't exist, she blamed you for it....because she's mentally ill and wouldn't dream of blaming herself.  Doing so would be facing her mental illness head-on and that's the scariest thing in the world for someone with BPD.

Your memories and experiences were all real, and naturally you'd love to rekindle that part of the relationship.  That's what is tearing at you, trying to figure out how the early version of her and the current version of her are the same person.  The simple answer is that it was all real, it's the same person, and it didn't work out because of mental illness.  She's sick...that's the answer to everything.

If you went back, you'd find that initial love all over again because that's the cycle BPD's go through.  The first few weeks/months would be magical, but the chaos would also be just around the corner.  The only way that changes is if she truly wants to change and seeks professional help to work through this stuff.  She has to want it for herself more than anything, and nobody can convince her.

So that's where you're at- loving the person but hating their mental illness.

Processing all of this takes so much time.  I'm 3 years out and still wonder about some of the things my ex wife said or did.  The connection is completely gone and I don't want her back, but sometimes I'll catch myself laying in bed at night thinking about one of our arguments. 

Why?!?  Why would I do that to myself?  It's because I actually loved her and wanted the world for her.  That doesn't change just because we move on.  It simply becomes easier to process and understand what actually happened.

I hope that helps!

[once removed]

do any of you guys have any book recommendations on the post breakup part. how to get over anything, let go, accept and move on. i can’t afford therapy, no insurance.

letting go requires a mental effort and a consistent commitment to it.

you have a long history with this person, you obviously loved her, and i have no doubt there were good qualities and special things about her, and your relationship. letting go of those things, mourning them, grieving them, is hard.

it is also something that needs to be balanced with reality testing. love isnt enough to overcome, in and of itself. thats true even in a relationship where the good seemingly outweighs the bad. for example, you could have a relationship thats 95% of the way there, but one of you wants children, the other doesnt.

dont ignore the good - grieve it. but balance it with the reality of what was broken about the relationship. 6 years is a long time. couples may break up a time or two and reconnect, but more than that points to something broken, and each makeup/breakup cycle increases the depth of the damage over time, diminishes trust, so getting to a healthy, sustainable place, gets further out of reach.

what was broken? entertain, in your mind, what it could possibly take to "fix", and then, realistically, whether thats achievable. in my own case, around 3 months into the breakup (i was dumped, but i wanted her back), the enormity of what it would have required became clearer to me, and the idea that we were simply not meant to be, even though it was incredibly hard on me at the time, caught up with me, and was the beginning of my letting go. when that realization that its truly over, that theres no going back hits you, it tends to sink in at some level. sometimes we argue with it (the bargaining stage of grief), and we cling to the idea of reconciliation, see things through rose colored lenses, create a reconciliation fantasy to avoid the feelings of loss and grief.

when they happen, lean into them. it may break your heart to do so, but it will sink in if you let it, and then, slowly but surely, you will emerge.

[semiok]

i wish my family and friends really understood what i was going through. the gravity of it. while they offer me support they also just see it as a breakup. which it is but they don’t understand what’s happened to the wiring in my head. i feel depressed and trying to talk to them about it just makes me feel even more depressed. i guess cause they don’t understand. everything they say is right, “why would you wanna be with someone like that, that’s not how someone treats the person the love”, “dont get back together with her”, “you just need to get over her”.. yes, i know. but, i want my life back. i didn’t plan on staying down here. all the change is such a shock to me.. i wanna recover my sense of pride and return to work and not let this woman dictate my life any longer. i don’t wanna feel like this.

[once removed]

none of that is very helpful, and obviously makes you feel worse, even, about the way you feel.

my friends were understanding, but they ran out of things to say. truth is, theres really only so much that friends or family can say, even at their best. 

my advice: dont lean on those people for understanding, or anything they cant otherwise give. if you have one or two that you trust, great, and limit it to them, but otherwise...

lean on them for quality time, and a sense of normalcy. they can do that, presumably, and it will go a long way. just spend as much time as possible around people you love, and avoid setting yourself up for a dose of invalidation.

for understanding and validation, lean on us here (we get it) and likewise, on a therapist, if you havent already. a six year relationship coming to an end is an enormous transition, to say nothing of BPD. it leaves a huge void. its hard to adjust to. you may not even want to adjust to it. if youre depressed, consider a meds evaluation with your doctor; depression makes going about "the things youre supposed to do" much harder. its like fighting against yourself. and then youre stuck in a vaccuum. talking about these things will help, but not if the feedback youre getting makes it worse.

it does get better. it may not be tomorrow or the next day; this is a lot to recover from. but little, by little, youll look back, and youll see it, and youll know it.

[semiok]

it’s gonna have to be here then. unfortunately i don’t have health insurance, no doctors and no therapists. and with the slow money i’m making i can’t afford it. back in the states where she lives however i do have health insurance and can afford it.

[semiok]

6 years on and off with her, 1 year living with her. so collectively 4 years. maybe i have that as an advantage, i’ll take whatever i can get. i also have a bottle of low dose xanax which i try to only take once of emergency.

[semiok]

honestly guys, those 6 years were the wildest and most painful years of my life. i got stuck in “the cycle” and being with a crazy person became normal.

when she first discarded me i was confused.. then she reappeared and i was hesitant but she convinced me she was sorry and didn’t know what she wanted. then the second discard.. confused. then i ran into her at a bar and asked her how she was doing. she froze and looked like she was about to cry, it softened me and we started hanging out again. then another discard and i said screw this.. started hanging out with someone else. didn’t work out and then she reached out, went back. then another discard, started dating someone else. then she came back and i took her back.. i started to notice the cycle at this point. instead of running away i just went with it, when she would ask me to leave i’d leave and do my own thing until she missed me. over and over again .i lost count and didn’t really care for sometime, i knew she’d be back. then she started getting serious with me and opening up about her childhood trauma. she wanted to break the cycle, i was all about it. we tried, i would stay. we would talk things out, i would calm her down. but over time all my energy would drain, i’d get stuck in flight or fight mode. id go to work like that, it was changing me.

the story goes on until it inevitably leads to now. my dad had passed and she didn’t know how to show any empathy. left. mourned his loss. got back with her, moved in and now im at this point.

the point is knew it was wrong, i knew it was toxic and i kept going back. im mad at myself for not cutting it off before i became toxic myself.

can you guys recommend any books to me that might resonate with me. i’m also trying to address my codependency issues as well.

[Pook075]

can you guys recommend any books to me that might resonate with me. i’m also trying to address my codependency issues as well.

For specifically moving on, I don't have any recommendations and couldn't find anything on an internet search.  For my personal experience, I turned to the Bible and studied how we're supposed to love and be loved.  It made it very clear to me that I was fighting for something that was only crushing my spirit and keeping me from being who I was called to be.

I will keep looking though and hopefully someone else will have a great recommendation.

[seekingtheway]

I found Whole Again to be quite a useful read a while back. It was quite soothing and helpful in terms of projecting your thoughts back to yourself and what's going on inside of you.

Another book I've just heard about that i'm considering getting for myself is Traumatic Cognitive Dissonance by Dr Peter Salerno. It's written for people trying to heal from a relationship with someone with a Cluster B personality disorder. I've listened to a few podcasts and video interviews with this guy and he does seem to really know his stuff, and he talks about the experience of cognitive dissonance as being the major block to recovery... which I would agree with in terms of my own healing. But I can't vouch for the book itself yet.

[once removed]

those 6 years were the wildest and most painful years of my life. i got stuck in “the cycle”

even when its generally for the best that it ends, to have chaos in your life over a long period of time, and then to have it end, leaves a void. that chaos wires you, consistently, for adrenaline. where does it all go, afterward? at some point in the relationship, you become numb to it; afterward, it can come surging to the forefront. i personally had physical symptoms from it, and daily anxiety attacks every morning, from my body anticipating it, even though it was gone. it will be (if it isnt already) a significant adjustment, to say nothing of grieving the relationship.

its not just mentally adapting to a new normal, it can be physical in lots of ways. this is why, though they arent fixes, building or maintaining routine and a sense of normalcy, and things like exercise (and rest), are so strongly recommended. they help you adapt.

the point is knew it was wrong, i knew it was toxic and i kept going back. im mad at myself for not cutting it off before i became toxic myself.

i get that. i spent a lot of time frustrated that i didnt end the relationship. i dont think theres much in the way of speaking to it, or certainly arguing with it; your feelings (mad at yourself) serve a purpose right now, and regrets are ordinary. know that your perspective on this will likely change, as you heal, and find purpose in your suffering, but that, for now, whether mad at her, mad at yourself; let yourself feel.

can you guys recommend any books to me that might resonate with me. i’m also trying to address my codependency issues as well.

we have a book review section here (top of the page, under Tools): https://bpdfamily.com/content/book-reviews

we also have a whole library here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=33.0

the journey from abandonment to healing is the recommended book for dealing with a broken heart. i read it, when i was going through it. i dont remember it terribly well, it was over 14 years ago, but i can tell you it will both validate you (make up for your friends), and educate you in terms of what youre experiencing. the book defines and discusses "the five stages of abandonment" (similar to the stages of grief). its a good book. it helped me. i stopped reading toward the end, when it got to the "healing your inner child" stuff - it just didnt really jive with me - it might for you, and many members have benefited.

i couldnt get the book review link to work at the moment, so here is the review of "journey" specifically: https://www.bpdfamily.com/book-reviews/journey-from-abandonment-to-healing

i don’t have health insurance, no doctors and no therapists. and with the slow money i’m making i can’t afford it. back in the states where she lives however i do have health insurance and can afford it.

there are alternatives in the form of supplements. after my breakup, i kind of became the supplement king, i tried everything.

if i could recommend just one, go get yourself some SAM-E. SAM-E is a natural (produced by your body) anti-depressant/mood stabilizer. if you read up on it, youll find that its proven to be as effective, if not more, as prescription anti-depressants, and without some of the nasty side effects and withdrawal they can cause. it was a game changer for me. hugely boosted my mood, quieted my ruminating, and just made everything i was going through feel so much smaller.

alternatives:

5-htp is powerful stuff. i personally had negative side effects from it, but that doesnt mean that you will. its just why i recommend sam-e as a safer bet.

st johns wort - a classic. it didnt do much for me personally.

ashwaghanda (not an antidepressant, but an adaptogen; helps your body adapt to stress) gave me a huge calming boost after i kind of maxed out the sam-e.

passionflower - for anxiety. it shut down my anxiety attacks when they happened, and they quickly went away. it acted a lot like xanax.

[ThanksForPlaying]

it is also something that needs to be balanced with reality testing. love isnt enough to overcome, in and of itself. thats true even in a relationship where the good seemingly outweighs the bad. for example, you could have a relationship thats 95% of the way there, but one of you wants children, the other doesnt.

This is the 'dealbreaker'.  Most dating apps and gameshows ask about 'dealbreakers' right up front.  Dealbreakers are really similar to boundaries.  Some people are able to enforce dealbreakers without thinking twice.  95% of the relationship works, but the person doesn't want kids.  Or they're a smoker.  Or they lie.  Or they cheat.  One reason pwBPD stick with us nons on this board is because we're generally not great at enforcing boundaries or dealbreakers.  We let them slide.  We think they can be fixed.  We give second and third and fourth chances.  Improving our own ability to enforce dealbreakers in all aspects of our lives is great place to look for self-improvement.

its not just mentally adapting to a new normal, it can be physical in lots of ways. this is why, though they arent fixes, building or maintaining routine and a sense of normalcy, and things like exercise (and rest), are so strongly recommended. they help you adapt.

Retraining our brain from a chemical standpoint is important.  Life feels boring without the chaos.  We actually do get small dopamine hits from completing chores, checking tasks off a list, and accomplishing daily routines.  While at the same time, our brains adapt to expecting less chaos over time.  So routines can be extremely helpful, along with the faith that time will change our brains (maybe never 'heal' fully, but time and routine should improve our outlook if we stick with it).

[Under The Bridge]

'One reason pwBPD stick with us nons on this board is because we're generally not great at enforcing boundaries or dealbreakers.  We let them slide.  We think they can be fixed.  We give second and third and fourth chances.'

Never a truer word. Apart from us all being eternal optimists, we're not great at enforcing boundaries because in a 'normal' relationship, they're not needed - any differences we have with our partner can usually be resolved by sensible discussion and compromise. The vital things we don't get with a BDP partner.

Would have saved much heartache if we had acted firmly on that first split, rather than letting it continue. We'd have ended up with just a short memory of something which 'could have been nice had it worked', rather than the deep scarring we got from repeated rides on the BPD merry-go-round which takes so long to heal.