Episodes of PD

[Our abuse recovery guide]

My mom has a personality disorder which seems like a mix between borderline and narcissistic. Her psychiatrist has confirmed that she has a personality disorder, however, she only takes medication for depression and claims that she doesn't need therapy or anything since it is us (her immediate family- husband and kids) who upset her and she ends up losing control. She has episodes only in front of us when she feels challenged by us in any of her opinions or we express our thoughts of not wanting to do what she wants us to do. Her episodes go like this: all of a sudden her movements would go out of her control, she would either throw things or begin running weirdly with her hands up (seemingly an attack posture) and then just faint. She would then at times wake up a while later and not recognize any of us. Within a few hours, that condition will subside and she'll get up okay, still physically unwell though. It breaks our heart to see her like this and we love her so much. Does this kind of episode sound familiar to anyone else here? Is this typical of personality disorders and is it really harmful for the patient?
 I am struggling with trying to do things in my best interest while also caring for her. But it is almost impossible to not hurt her, she'll see us as the problem anyways. Meanwhile she has great love for her own family (parents and siblings) and they all, unsurprisingly, are just enablers and controlling individuals within their own families.
 My therapist tells me that I cannot make wrong decisions in my life simply due to my love for my mom or caring for her well-being because she is incapable of appreciating that anyways. How do I see her as? As a patient who can't have my best interest at heart or a mom who loves me? This feels so isolating. Other people, who aren't in this situation, cannot understand what it feels like to grow up with a BPD mom and rightfully so because the dynamics with these people are so crazy that sometimes we are left wondering if we are the problem. I do not know what to grieve for; a mom I thought I had in my childhood or a mom that I wish I had or the grief of seeing her in pain by hurting herself and us and not knowing it at all?
I get so confused when I think it is because of her disorder. Does that take away the responsibility of her actions from her? She seems totally capable of navigating other areas of her life then why is it that her immediate family is the only one that suffers? She is simply incapable of seeing our pain and suffering. Then how do I blame her?
Also, my genuine concern is are such individuals capable of harming themselves? Her psychiatrist tells us to let her have her episodes and not give in to her demands as the episodes are not genuine. I believe, the physical reactions are genuine but it is also her subconscious brain at play, deciding when and where to have the episode because it is never outside or in front of anyone else but us inside the house. She takes all possible measures to hide it from others. So far, she has only threatened us or set the scene for a suicide attempt but that is only when she wants us to give in to any of her decision.

Also, is it damaging that we hide such stuff about her from others? We do not want to ruin her image in front of others, but is that detrimental to us because she knows we won't be revealing this in front of anyone?

But how do we even explain this issue to anyone? If I hadn't personally experienced this narcissistic behaviour, I don't think even I would have easily understood what this whole situation was or if it was possible for a mom to not have her kids' best interest at heart? Or maybe she does have our best interest at heart, but only as per her flawed understanding of the world. Nevertheless, I feel like confiding in someone about this situation makes you feel even more invalidated and isolated. Not blaming others since they try to understand based on their experience of life and these situations are definitely not the norm plus crazy to fathom.

How should one deal with those episodes? Let the patient be or get them to bed and take care of them? Honestly, it would feel inhumane to me to not take care of my mom after she's been in such a physical pain.

Do I try and confide in close friends when times feel hard? or do I just stick to journalling, speaking to siblings and dad, praying and using the best strategy to not give in to mom's demands?

[Commitment to me]

My mom has a personality disorder which seems like a mix between borderline and narcissistic. Her psychiatrist has confirmed that she has a personality disorder, however, she only takes medication for depression and claims that she doesn't need therapy or anything since it is us (her immediate family- husband and kids) who upset her and she ends up losing control. She has episodes only in front of us when she feels challenged by us in any of her opinions or we express our thoughts of not wanting to do what she wants us to do. Her episodes go like this: all of a sudden her movements would go out of her control, she would either throw things or begin running weirdly with her hands up (seemingly an attack posture) and then just faint. She would then at times wake up a while later and not recognize any of us. Within a few hours, that condition will subside and she'll get up okay, still physically unwell though. It breaks our heart to see her like this and we love her so much. Does this kind of episode sound familiar to anyone else here? Is this typical of personality disorders and is it really harmful for the patient?
 I am struggling with trying to do things in my best interest while also caring for her. But it is almost impossible to not hurt her, she'll see us as the problem anyways. Meanwhile she has great love for her own family (parents and siblings) and they all, unsurprisingly, are just enablers and controlling individuals within their own families.
 My therapist tells me that I cannot make wrong decisions in my life simply due to my love for my mom or caring for her well-being because she is incapable of appreciating that anyways. How do I see her as? As a patient who can't have my best interest at heart or a mom who loves me? This feels so isolating. Other people, who aren't in this situation, cannot understand what it feels like to grow up with a BPD mom and rightfully so because the dynamics with these people are so crazy that sometimes we are left wondering if we are the problem. I do not know what to grieve for; a mom I thought I had in my childhood or a mom that I wish I had or the grief of seeing her in pain by hurting herself and us and not knowing it at all?
I get so confused when I think it is because of her disorder. Does that take away the responsibility of her actions from her? She seems totally capable of navigating other areas of her life then why is it that her immediate family is the only one that suffers? She is simply incapable of seeing our pain and suffering. Then how do I blame her?
Also, my genuine concern is are such individuals capable of harming themselves? Her psychiatrist tells us to let her have her episodes and not give in to her demands as the episodes are not genuine. I believe, the physical reactions are genuine but it is also her subconscious brain at play, deciding when and where to have the episode because it is never outside or in front of anyone else but us inside the house. She takes all possible measures to hide it from others. So far, she has only threatened us or set the scene for a suicide attempt but that is only when she wants us to give in to any of her decision.

Also, is it damaging that we hide such stuff about her from others? We do not want to ruin her image in front of others, but is that detrimental to us because she knows we won't be revealing this in front of anyone?

But how do we even explain this issue to anyone? If I hadn't personally experienced this narcissistic behaviour, I don't think even I would have easily understood what this whole situation was or if it was possible for a mom to not have her kids' best interest at heart? Or maybe she does have our best interest at heart, but only as per her flawed understanding of the world. Nevertheless, I feel like confiding in someone about this situation makes you feel even more invalidated and isolated. Not blaming others since they try to understand based on their experience of life and these situations are definitely not the norm plus crazy to fathom.

How should one deal with those episodes? Let the patient be or get them to bed and take care of them? Honestly, it would feel inhumane to me to not take care of my mom after she's been in such a physical pain.

Do I try and confide in close friends when times feel hard? or do I just stick to journalling, speaking to siblings and dad, praying and using the best strategy to not give in to mom's demands?

[Notwendy]

These are all great questions and I don't think I will get to them all in one post- but - you are not alone- many of us here have experienced these conflicting questions- who is this person who is my mother and how do I relate to her?

My BPD has rage episodes but does not pass out. Has your mother been evaluated for medical reasons for why she passes out during them? It could be that the emotional stress causes her to have these episodes but I would want to know that she is in good health since they happen each time. It is possible she's chosing to do it- but still, I'd want to know she's physically healthy before assuming that. Seems like your therapist suspects she's "faking" them which can happen too.

Is she responsible for her behavior? Yes. That doesn't mean she deliberately chooses it but she also is considered legally competent. If she were to rob a bank, she'd face criminal charges like anyone else. But whatever the reason-you do not have to tolerate abusive behavior from anyone- whether they are able to control it or not.

BPD is a disorder of attachment and so, the people closest to the pwBPD experience the behaviors the most. My BPD mother was like that too. It was a family secret- we were not allowed to say anything about it to anyone. She also treated others differently so they didn't see it. Her family also enabled her.

Yes, speak about her but in a confidential situation- your therapist, close friend but you don't want to embarrass her or humilate her to her circle. That doesn't help you or her.

Do you take care of her after these episodes? This depends. One of my mother's emotional needs is to have people take care of her, so for her, having pain or physical issues is a way to get this need met. Our whole family was in caretaker role to her. There needs to be some boundaries though. I don't know how old you are or if you are living at home? For me, the boundary was that I had my own goals, my own family eventually, I had a job. When I did visit my mother, it was about doing things for her but I also had to manage my own responsibilities. Also, the caretaking reinforced her behavior.

This was a difficult situation to figure out. We didn't want to enable the behavior but also didn't want to ignore a real situation for her. It wasn't a perfect balance. We didn't do it perfectly. Age makes a difference. If this were an elderly parent, it makes sense to ask an adult child for assistance sometimes but also a caring parent recognizes the adult child has needs too. For my BPD mother, her focus was on her own needs so we had to have boundaries, which she was not pleased about. If the child is young, it's the parents' role to meet the child's needs, not the other way around, but parents with PD's perceive their children's purpose as meeting their needs.

If you are a young adult, your developmental task is to get your education, become employed, become independent, and if you wish to have a spouse or family - do that. Your role is not to forsake these tasks in order to caretake your BPD mother. Of course, every parent wants their adult children to visit and be a part of their lives, but know that adult children need to "leave the nest" emotionally.

[Notwendy]

Oddly speaking about my BPD mother as if she's still present. She passed away recently- so it's a bit if an adjustment.

For reference, she was of advanced age, so I was speaking of her behavior in her younger years- and it didn't change much except for that her need for caretaking was mainly emotional and in her elder years, she needed physical assistance too.

[Commitment to me]

Thank you so much for your response, NotWendy. I've heard people feeling various emotions when losing a PD parent. Nevertheless, a loss of a parent comes with grief and perhaps PD complicates the process. I wish ease for you through it all. I have come across great responses from you on this platform and they truly are so helpful. Thank you for the support you are providing!
Nothing major has been identified in her medical screening. It most likely is the stress that gets overwhelming. It doesn't happen everytime, just when the situation is a major one and she needs us to comply. This time it happened after more than a year so, I am assuming nothing medical related.
Yes, I am a young adult and I wish to have a spouse and family, however, my mom has chosen a potential spouse for me without considering my emotions and preferences. I am truly scared for how I can take such a huge step of choosing to go against her wishes. I am grateful that I have the support of my dad and siblings so, they will be there for me when making a marriage decision.

There is a high chance that my mom and her family will go against us and throw huge tantrums when that happens. I don't know how I'll handle all of that. But again a major life decision is not one of those things which I can compromise on because of her resistance and hurt. At times like these, I wish we had a normal family situation and I could enjoy this process, but well, acceptance is key. It is what it is

[Notwendy]

Are you part of a culture where marriages are arranged by families? Even in these cultures / religion - the potential matches have a say in the choice- if they meet and it isn’t a match - they are able to decline the match and then ask to meet someone else. Parents want the couple to be happy - not forced. This could be challenging with a BPD parent but I think you can stay within the custom of your culture and find someone you are happy with.

[Commitment to me]

Yes, indeed, my say matters.
Thank you!
Differentiating from my BPD mom and learning to not internalize the guilt she wants me to feel for having my own opinions is a challenging aspect. Any tips to work around this feeling?

[Notwendy]

Is there a way for you to speak to a counselor? Your mother is the one with the disorder, but this impacts every member of the family. It's a process. It's about having boundaries- but that doesn't mean you argue or debate your mother. That wouldn't work well. It's about you knowing who you are, as a separate person and holding on to that. It's a challenge to learn who we are when there's a disordered parent and the focus is on their feelings and ideas.

You won't be "speaking poorly" of your mother in a theraputic and confidential situation. A counselor who is experienced in these family dynamics can be a support to you and an objective sounding board.

I found it to be very difficult to say "no" to my mother for any request, and so by having boundaries, she was not pleased with me at times. Navigating the line between honoring a parent and having boundaries was a challenge.

Still, you are a separate human being. You have your own thoughts and feelings. Your parents can suggest a potential spouse- but this is your choice and future.

My own path to independence may be different from yours but this is what I did. I needed distance. My parents wanted me to go to college - and I did as well, and that was my way of being in a different place from my parents without conflict- we were in agreement on that. I felt I needed to get some distance from my mother due to her behavior. My goal was to get a job and be financially independent. BPD mother controlled the finances in the family and so, I needed to not be dependent on them.

My parents were not involved in choosing my spouse- it's not my culture, but as I mentioned, even in these situations, the paired young adults have a say in the outcome. Even outside these cultures, people "match up" their friends and family members- called "blind dates" where two people don't know each other before meeting up. I was OK with the idea- and did try it- but they didn't go further than just meeting.

I don't know how far you want to go from your family or culture- it's your choice. I still maintained contact with my parents but I also needed to have some distance from BPD mother. With her it had to be her way or there'd be conflict. I didn't want to have conflict with her but also being around her, to avoid conflict, meant complete compliance, and also tolerating emotional and vebal abuse.  These are difficult situations to navigate.

[Commitment to me]

Yes, indeed, super difficult!
Thank you for your responses <3 It truly feels amazing and validating when someone gets exactly what we are going through.
Even though I have siblings who are in the same situation, but since everyone has their own personality, dynamics with the PD parent and coping mechanisms, I sometimes feel isolated in my struggle. I am that child whom my mom likes to confide in and speak about how things have been so unfair for her. This then also makes me more vulnerable to her manipulation tactics unlike my other siblings. It is still valuable to speak to them about my feelings though, but I do not like burdening them so much with my struggle.

As far as speaking to a counselor is concerned, my therapist does understand PD and has met my mom so, she kinda knows how she is. But my therapist says it is our weakness for letting mom get her way with things, she is of the view that we need to go completely against our mom's irrational demands (even small daily life ones) if we want her to reduce her rage episodes etc. I somewhat agree with this approach as it has worked for us in the past. Once mom sees we are adamant on something and doesn't see her disapproval and rage working, she'd let some things go. However, I don't think it is doable to completely go against everything the PD parent says. The emotional toll it takes on us and the fear we feel while navigating such situations, I am not sure people can understand, perhaps even therapists without actually having gone through similar situations.

But it could also be that since I was feeling really weak and manipulated by my mom's opinions on certain things, I needed that wake-up call from my therapist and I do appreciate the reality check she gave me when reminding me that I could be the nicest person to my mom, but it would still not make her happy. Perhaps every therapist has their way of navigating such clients.

I feel it is also a bit uncomfortable or challenging for a close friend to respond when I speak about this struggle. I was able to be a bit open with a friend who herself had a problematic mom and so was able to empathize with me. But looking at it from a friend's perspective, it perhaps would be tricky to validate your friend's pain in such a situation because you wouldn't want to seem like you are saying something bad about their mum. It's challenging. If I do ever open up to a close one, I regret afterwards. Because either the other person doesn't fully get it or they invalidate you by somehow taking your mom's side and trying to see her side of the things or I just feel bad that they might be judging my mom because they are unaware of the complexities of PD.

I think the issue is that it then makes me feel so alone in my struggle that I feel like a victim which I do not want. I feel different from others and a bit resentful that I have to go through something difficult without feeling acknowledged for it. Therapy has been great for me in making me realize the agency I have in my life and to be accountable. That has helped me take proactive steps for my growth in different areas of life.

Anyways, this platform is a safe space for me to express my struggle without feeling judged or misunderstood, and perhaps has helped a bit with reducing the loneliness I feel these days.

[Notwendy]

I agree about speaking to friends. Even my own husband didn't completely "get it"- he was empathetic to me and supportive of the situation, but since his mother didn't have BPD, it wasn't something he could relate to. So I agree- confiding in people who don't have a similar experience can feel lonely.

I agree with your counselor in that, you can not make your mother happy. We can't control any other person's feelings.

I think your counselor is correct about not enabling your mother's behavior. I also think it is a process to take that path. It is scary, and it can involve some extreme reactions from her.

I see this as a work in progress. Sometimes we get it right and sometimes we backtrack. It can be a "pick your battle" situation, standing firm with an important boundary and deciding another one is not worth the struggle.

It may change with circumstances. I also am the one my mother confided in but I see now as an adult that this was not appropriate. It's a form of parentifying a child. So while I didn't understand this as a child, when I saw my BPD mother trying to do this with my own teen children- that became a firm, no compromise boundary. As my father's health began to decline in his elder years, my mother's BPD behavior escalated and I felt the need to have boundaries with that.

Had I known more about BPD and family dynamics at the time, I would have gone about this differently and possibly been more prepared for the reactions of my parents to my having boundaries. I knew my mother would not be overtly abusive to my children, but could not allow her to enlist them as her emotional caretakers.

You will have your own boundaries- whatever they are. Mine would have been- to not be forced into a marriage with someone I didn't want to marry. In terms of pick your battles- maybe that would be a main one.

[Notwendy]

By going about it differently- I took the behaviors personally and reacted due to hurt feelings. Now, I see this as a part of the BPD behavior and family dynamics. I still would have had the boundaries.

[Commitment to me]

This is super helpful, thank you so much! <3

Yes, it has been so freeing to not take what she says personally and understand that it isn't coming from a healthy place. You're right, it is a process and perhaps one in which we need constant reminders and support, especially while living with the PD parent in the same space.

Thanks once again for your thoughtful and empathetic responses, Notwendy!