no JADE — what to do when they ask you to explain / say they want to understand

[Depression = 72% of members]

I’m learning to not JADE— but what do i do when my partner asks?

They tell me they “want to understand” my decision on something, but i firmly believe they are incapable of such. We’ve talked in circles about the issue and we’re not going
to see eye to eye on it.

I have stated what i intend on doing going forward (not breaking off a friendship with someone that once hurt them), but i expect the question to keep coming: why? help me understand.

It feels cruel not to answer. But we’ve tried. And it’s not productive. I wish they could understand, I do. So what else can i say to avoid giving in?

[NeedCoffee]

I’m learning to not JADE— but what do i do when my partner asks?

They tell me they “want to understand” my decision on something, but i firmly believe they are incapable of such. We’ve talked in circles about the issue and we’re not going
to see eye to eye on it.

I have stated what i intend on doing going forward (not breaking off a friendship with someone that once hurt them), but i expect the question to keep coming: why? help me understand.

It feels cruel not to answer. But we’ve tried. And it’s not productive. I wish they could understand, I do. So what else can i say to avoid giving in?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ForeverDad]

I had a failed marriage.  It seemed to start out well but over the years it got progressively worse.  In my case, it was demands that I apologize - repeatedly - for past incident's.  After my efforts to make clear I'd already apologized, I eventually cracked.  I started apologizing for anything and everything, over and over.  Sadly, that didn't impact my then-spouse.  It only enabled her to continue.  Then she became dissatisfied with my apologies, demanding I reword my apology.  Eventually I was so frustrated that I'd skip a phrase, and she'd demand I repeat again what she wanted to hear.  Then I'd omit something else.  I recall one time it was a half dozen times and she never realized why I kept forgetting pieces.  After months of that, I returned to my original stance and stated I would apologize only if I deemed it necessary.  Yeah, that didn't go over well.  As I said, the relationship did fail.

Admittedly, this may not be your experience but the point is that you may never satisfy your partner's repeated questions.  After repeated attempts, what then?  Once you understand the convoluted mental gymnastics, you can kind of sense the other's perspective but you can't quite bridge that gulf no matter what you say or do... but you can politely still keep your own objectivity (and integrity for yourself) intact.

[Notwendy]

One question to consider is- who can handle a poly relationship? PwBPD have a poor sense of self, and may "mirror" a partner. For instance- since it's your choice, is it your partner's as well? Or are they going along with your choice? Or, did they think they can handle it but once they tried it, realize it's causing them difficult feelings?

Relationships are agreements and also require a match of values to some extent. Knowing who you are is an important factor in a relationship, and if someone has BPD, they may not be so secure in knowing that.

It is possible that your partner wants a monogomous relationship with you, and you want a poly relationship. If this is the situation, then "fixing" this means one of you has to change a core value or wish in order to be with the other. They are asking you to give up a friendship for them. You don't want to do this because you value the friendship. They are asking you to explain your position and it leads to circular arguments because, it's a conflict of wishes/reasons. Neither of you is right or wrong here. They want something and you want something else.

Since there's a tendency to project, your partner may not be able to identify their own feelings. Is it the friend? Is it jealousy? Is it insecurity? They may not know. What they want is for you to fix this for them. But to do so is to give up a friend value and you don't want to do that. Explaining doesn't fix their feelings which is why the conversation goes circular.

[CC43]

Hi there,

If you’ve already explained your position and she refuses to accept it, she doesn’t want to understand. What she wants is to change your mind through continued debate, or give vent to her grievance.  I think you already realize that it’s pointless, because you end up going in circles. And if you give in to her demands by terminating the relationship, she succeeds in isolating you and devoting more of your time and energy to her, which probably isn’t healthy for either of you. Does she up the ante and try to sabotage all your relationships, such as with family and friends, to control you completely?  That is not healthy at all.

If she insists, you might say, There’s nothing I can say to make it better. Or you could try to gray rock, be as still and boring as a gray rock. I doubt she wants to understand, she just wants to continue the fight because she’s mad and needs to vent her ire. You are right that explaining your position again and again is JADE. JADE doesn’t work when she’s riled up.

My husband tried to isolate me for a few years by throwing a tantrum every time I spent any time with friends or had to travel for work. He even threw tantrums when I tried to visit with family for a few measly hours, and he refused to come. He’d try to impose a 6PM curfew, too. He’d « test » me by trying to get me to choose between him and an activity. Eventually I put a stop to it. If he threw a tantrum every time I left the house, I let him have the tantrum. If he called me every five minutes when I was out, I stopped answering my phone. If he demanded a play-by-play, I told him once how I spent my time  and that was it. If he refused to talk to me when I came home, I ignored him. I think he did understand that he was acting like a big baby, feeling so needy, jealous and bored. I showed him how I supported him with his hobbies, family and friends, and that I deserved the same from him. I guess I’m saying that giving in to unreasonable demands doesn’t help, and just to ignore the tantrum, because it’s unreasonable.

[Notwendy]

Even in a relationship without dysfunction, there are boundaries on friendships. A partner should not isolate us- to object to all and any friends is unreasonable. However, if I was to spend a lot of time with friends and not with my spouse- and vice versa- that would cause issues. Also there's the level of friendship. Disclosing personal and relationship issues to a friend may become an issue.

Monogomous relationships have a clear boundary to the couple and to other people. Opening up that connection to other people- while I have read there's agreed upon boundaries- these are more flexible, it's up to the people involved.

You have a romantic connection with your partner and also with this third person, and at one point it was a connection with your partner too. It's no longer three people connected to each other. The dynamics have changed. You and your partner are not in alignment with what each of you wants to do.

If you hold your boundary- your partner may not like it but this then puts the ball in their court- to accept it or not. They may continue to stay in this relationship or decide it's not working for them. Each of you feels strongly about what you each want.

So maybe the response is- first to validate. "I understand your point of view and your feelings. I care about you and our relationship. However, I value this friendship and don't want to give it up. I am sorry this feels difficult for you, but this is my decision" and then let them decide.

[cynp]

When dis-regulated, my partner will demand again and again that I explain myself, but what I have learned is that what they are asking is for me to verify their incorrect beliefs. ex. "You went out with friends because you do not care about me." And demanding over and over again, that I admit that this is the reason. and when I say that it is not, becoming more angry. When in this state, they don't actually want a proper explnation of what you r actually doing/thinking. They just want verification of their worst fears and thoughts about you to give them an excuse to further push you away.

[Me88]

When dis-regulated, my partner will demand again and again that I explain myself, but what I have learned is that what they are asking is for me to verify their incorrect beliefs. ex. "You went out with friends because you do not care about me." And demanding over and over again, that I admit that this is the reason. and when I say that it is not, becoming more angry. When in this state, they don't actually want a proper explanation of what you r actually doing/thinking. They just want verification of their worst fears and thoughts about you to give them an excuse to further push you away.

This is what I experienced. They assign intent to your words or actions. They will create ideas, stories, etc. That becomes the 'truth'. They can be the most ridiculous things too, that make zero sense. If you try to explain yourself, or even defend yourself if it's a crazy accusation, it all blows up, horribly. And they don't feel 'heard'. Or you are denying their reality and gaslighting them. Lots of therapy talk. All mine was looking for was me to agree with whatever bad thing I apparently did, in which I never could most times, and we'd talk for hours and hours. Often ending in screaming, storming off, slamming things. I started a thread in the 'breakup' section of this forum regarding 'if not JADE, then what?'. Lots of great responses. Admittedly things I found would be difficult for me to put into practice. It's hard to be shiit on constantly and just take it without speaking up.

[cynp]

All mine was looking for was me to agree with whatever bad thing I apparently did, in which I never could most times, and we'd talk for hours and hours. Often ending in screaming, storming off, slamming things.

I never knew there were other people out there living my life. I've always thought I was in some topsy-turvy world noone else would understand. no, I am not going to just admit to sleeping with that shop worker I've never seen befor, in an out of town business we've never visited, because they seemed too friendly. and that I take offense to this accusation, is just further prof that I must be hiding something!