Feeling Worn Down After Latest Spiral

[DeltaV]

First time posting. I’ve been in a relationship for around 8 years with someone I care about deeply. I proposed to her and we are waiting to get back to the US to marry. She hasn’t been diagnosed with BPD but has acknowledged anxiety and depression. Based on patterns I’ve seen over the years, I strongly suspect she has BPD. Every time I bring it up, always super gently, she snaps and accuses me of not understanding her. I’ve been the primary emotional anchor in the relationship for a long time and have generally been able to handle the storms. But right now, I’m struggling.

We’re both early-career researchers. We are both very stressed about getting a job after we both finish, at the same time, in our current positions. I made it clear from the start, and at the time she agreed, that any one of us getting a job is a win for both of us, and we should celebrate it. We applied to the same postdoc position. She told me about it and encouraged me to apply. I did, and a few days ago I got invited for the next stage: an in-person interview. She didn’t. Since then, things have spiraled.

What started as coldness turned into silence. She completely shut me out. No conversation, no eye contact, not even acknowledgment when I brought home food she likes or checked in. She slept on the couch while I was in the bedroom. I was very hurt by that, and honestly if she doesn't stop acting this way today I will sleep on the couch myself. Then, when I didn’t affirm her belief that the hiring committee was acting unfairly, she became more passive-aggressive and eventually hostile.

She’s convinced the group is being unprofessional and unethical simply because they didn’t immediately follow up on her application. This has only been a couple of working days. I tried to gently explain that this is a normal part of how these academic processes work, and this isn't out of the ordinary at all. They are simply waiting for confirmations of interest from their selected cohort before they send official rejection letters to the ones who were not selected. I've been through this process (I got a rejection), and this is normal procedure. She didn’t take that well.

Now she’s framing the group as morally bankrupt and incompetent. I can tell she’s setting the stage to use this against me later. If I move forward and take the job, she’ll accuse me of siding with “bad people”, betraying her, or somehow abandoning her. She’s done something like this before. If I don’t fully adopt her narrative, she treats it as a betrayal.

She also accused me of applying behind her back, lying to her about the type of job I wanted, and only wanting the job for myself. None of that is true. She told me about the opportunity and even encouraged me to apply. I’ve always told her that I would be willing to go anywhere, take any job I can, just to support both of us financially and create some security for the future. She’s said herself that she wants to be a stay-at-home mother someday, and I want to give her the freedom to do that. I’ve never expected her to work but let her decide what she wants fully. I’ve just wanted to give her space to pursue her art (she does oil painting, and she's incredibly talented. I've always been incredibly proud of her talent) and have a peaceful, happy life. But now that I’m trying to make that happen, she’s tearing me down for it.

This isn’t the first time something like this has happened. A few years ago, we were both applying to graduate programs. I was invited to visit a highly competitive university that had offered me admission. She hadn’t been accepted there and became incredibly upset that I was. She told me that if I went to visit, she would break up with me. At the time, I didn’t understand that “breaking up” was a tactic she would use in emotional spirals, so I believed her and ended up declining the visit. This is something that’s considered unprofessional in our field. The professor even basically begged me in an email to reconsider. He said there's no expectation I say yes to the offer, but visiting is normal and standard, since they already have money set aside for it, and it would help my future. I was told by her, in clear terms, to tell him to basically piss off. I of course very respectfully declined. Truth be told, and this is something I told her multiple times, I wasn't even wanting to go to that university. I had already been accepted to a better one I wanted to go at. Visiting was just a formality at this point. I still said no, and I feel I burned that bridge with that important researcher. I still regret it. She eventually admitted she was wrong and apologized, but the emotional cost was high and the dynamic hasn’t changed.

The silent treatments, emotional spirals, and gaslighting have been a part of our relationship from the beginning. I’ve gotten better at not blaming myself for everything, but I still struggle with guilt. I always try to see what I might have done wrong, where I can grow. But I’m tired. It feels like I’m doing everything I can just to keep things steady, and I’m still always one step away from being cast as the villain in her story.

Right now I’m sitting in silence, alone in a small apartment overseas, while she pretends I don’t exist. I’m hurt. I’m confused. And I’m just trying to get through the day without snapping or saying something I’ll regret. I don’t want to walk away from her. But I also don’t know how much longer I can keep going like this.

Being overseas, we haven't developed a real friend group here. I feel lonely. I even took a crappy job here just so I could be with her while she finished her PhD. I never complained or held it against her. Truth be told, I'm happy I did it. But it's getting so tough right now. I can tell she's "priming the warhead" by trying to get me to agree with her that the selection committee for the current post-doc is cruel, unethical, and frankly, bad people, for not giving her a rejection email two days after her interview. I can tell, if I do end up being offered the job, she will use it as a weapon to try and guilt me into not accepting it. She's already trying to draw the line between good (her) and evil (the selection committee/research group offering the job) so if I get it, I am expected to turn it down.

I am actually really struggling. But, thank you for reading this far. I appreciate it.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[hueyman]

Hey man!

I’ve been in your shoes with my girlfriend... feeling like the one who has to stay steady while your partner struggles emotionally. I used to think I was being supportive, the calm one. But looking back, I wasn’t really helping.. I was quietly judging her and we almost broke up from it. She confronted me about dismissing her and how she felt like I was just a caretaker instead of a partner.

She is probably stressed for good reasons too by the sound of it if essentially her "career" is ending.

What really stood out in your post was how you describe yourself as the one who sacrifices and “never held it against her.” But honestly? It sounds like you do hold it against her, I know I did. That resentment comes through, even if you don’t mean it to. I say that with empathy because I’ve been there. I thought I was being patient, but really, I was building a case against someone I loved instead of actually showing up for them.

It’s worth asking yourself if you're actually trying to understand her, or if you’re just managing her like a problem. There's a big difference. She probably notices how you deal with her and that probably isn't helping either.

[DeltaV]

Hi!

I take your criticism to heart. I think it's partially true that I have built a resentment slowly over time. She has been happy for me if she wasn't in competition with me.

I am not sure how to A. not have that, B. support her fully and show that I care and understand how tough it is for her, and C. show it physically, through actions/words, daily. I don't want to feel that way.

Also, I want to clarify that her career is not ending by any means. I have received many rejections too. Unfortunately, it is a competitive field and rejections are common. I tried to bring that into focus for her that one rejection is not the end of her career. She has also received a few rejections, but I was not in competition for them and she was sad and disappointed, but didn't act the same way with me specifically as with this particular one.

I do take it to heart, and you are likely right. I am just not sure how to show her that I view her as a capable, smart, intelligent partner and to work together with her. For example, she has another interview lined up that I did not apply for already. She does have great credentials, this is by no means a career end. We agreed that if we both get a job in different places, we will sit down and discuss which to choose, and the other will drop it. I am trying to approach it from a pragmatic view of which would pay better, which is better located, etc. I genuinely would not be upset to say no to a job for me if hers is better and if she really feels strongly about wanting to do it. I would hold no resentment at all in that case. Like I said, I have a brain that can find interest in any job, any field of industry. I would be happy to work anywhere. My interests are really wide-spanning.

I know I am also capable, and no matter where I go with her, I can find a good job too. I'm not worried. We're both well set-up to both have careers. So, how do you do it to make her feel like a partner and not a burden? I think, looking inwardly, I don't think she is a burden, but it's true I did sacrifice some stuff for her. I turned down a Princeton and Stanford PhD because I didn't want to go to those programs. I just didn't like the lifestyle. I genuinely didn't want to go Princeton and Stanford for my own reasons, but she didn't get in to those programs and so I guess she feels like I said no for her sake? Even though they were at the bottom of my choice list for where I'd go. I have tried many times to convince her that I didn't say no because of her, but because I didn't want to go there whenever she brings it up. She eventually ended up at Oxford, which is quite prestigious and I am really proud of her for it.

I'm also at Oxford now in my postdoc. We finish at the same time. I did sacrifice some things for her, but I genuinely value our relationship more than some stupid job somewhere. In my priority list, they were easy to let go of for us. Not Princeton or Stanford, but some other situations.

[kells76]

Hi DeltaV and welcome  (great user name, too  I work in the sciences)

Like hueyman brought up, resentment on the part of the non-BPD partner can creep into the relationship, whether intended or not, and can sometimes be hard to identify. And: there are more variables in play, too, in addition to potential resentment.

Persons with BPD are dealing with a lot:

high emotional sensitivity
high emotional reactivity
long return to emotional baseline
wildly varying, often harmfully intense emotions
frequent sense of strong shame

A little background on the first three:

Something important to know about BPD is that pwBPD (persons with BPD) frequently struggle with all three of the following:

-high emotional sensitivity (something that wouldn't really bother a person without BPD, can be very painful to a pwBPD)
-high emotional reactivity (a person without BPD might respond to an emotionally painful situation at a 5/10 level -- being upset, wanting to talk about it, raised voice -- but a pwBPD might react to an emotionally painful situation at a 10/10 level -- screaming, suicide threats, breakups, violence)
-long return to emotional baseline (a person without BPD might only need 30 minutes to re-regulate after an argument; a pwBPD might need hours, days, or weeks to return to an emotional baseline and regulate)

Any person, with or without BPD, can have any of those traits. For example, I'm pretty emotionally sensitive, and I have a long return to emotional baseline, but I'm generally not externally emotionally reactive. It's more that if BPD is in play, it's very likely that your loved one will struggle with all three tendencies

BPD can also be described as a shame-based disorder: "normal range" life occurrences, where a non-BPD person could "shake it off" as embarrassing, disappointing, or personally falling short, are experienced by the pwBPD as ripping open an inner shame wound, to a nearly intolerable level -- "proof" of being fundamentally deficient, evil, unworthy, etc.

And, BPD is often also described as "chronic emotional dysregulation": pwBPD are low-skilled in terms of healthy emotional management, and that's coupled with innately higher emotional responses.

So, all of that, put together, is important info to have when considering how to navigate your situation.

This really stood out to me as a dynamic to look at:

Also, I want to clarify that her career is not ending by any means. I have received many rejections too. Unfortunately, it is a competitive field and rejections are common. I tried to bring that into focus for her that one rejection is not the end of her career. She has also received a few rejections, but I was not in competition for them and she was sad and disappointed, but didn't act the same way with me specifically as with this particular one.

I do take it to heart, and you are likely right. I am just not sure how to show her that I view her as a capable, smart, intelligent partner and to work together with her. For example, she has another interview lined up that I did not apply for already. She does have great credentials, this is by no means a career end. We agreed that if we both get a job in different places, we will sit down and discuss which to choose, and the other will drop it. I am trying to approach it from a pragmatic view of which would pay better, which is better located, etc.

My sense of the dynamic (and please correct me if I'm off base) is something like:

You're being practical about it. It's a win for you both either way if either of you gets a great job, and if she'd gotten to the next step in the interviews and you hadn't, you'd feel happy for her and for both of you (even if you felt a bit disappointed at first). The variables to consider are finances, location, growth opportunities, etc, and all you two need to do is sit down and have a rational conversation about it, in order to move forward. You love her, think she's amazing and intelligent, and hope that reminding her of the big picture, and your love for her, will help her feel better about the (currently temporary) situation.

Is that close to your approach?

I think I can guess about her experience of things, and it's likely fairly different from yours.

Her: Me not getting to the next step and DeltaV advancing is proof of my inherent unworth. I feel like an imposter, like my "fake" intelligence was finally unmasked, and it's beyond devastating, because it confirms the beliefs about myself that I try to avoid: that I'm unlovable, unworthy, not actually smart, and worthless. What makes it worse is that my partner won't hear me when I express how I feel -- he wants to "look on the bright side" and won't listen to my feelings of pain, shame, and woundedness. I don't know why I bother trying to tell him anything. When he tells me that he loves me and that I'm an amazing person, so intelligent, and with so many opportunities, what that communicates to me is that he hasn't heard any of the feelings I've tried to share... and I feel even more alone.

...

What I'm getting at with that hypothetical difference in perspective is that pwBPD (and sensitive persons, and, really, all of us, at different times), before we can move forward with practical problem solving, really need to have our feelings heard without judgment or analysis or "yeah, I hear you, but...".

I'm wondering if she feels really unheard, even though I am betting that you are trying to hear her. You may be trying to have conversations and discussions about the logistics, the pragmatic side, why long term it'll be OK, and how much you love her... but she really needs you both to slow down and hear out her feelings, before she's anywhere near a place to meet you about the logistics.

Could that be going on, or is that off base?

No matter what the core dynamic, if you can only take away one new tool from here, I'd strongly recommend you do a deep dive into true validation, especially how to stop invalidating others.

The whole thread is a gold mine, and then continuing to practice and discuss here what true validation really means can only benefit the two of you.

Anyway, lots of food for thought right off the bat. I'll be curious to hear your thoughts about validation/invalidation, and if or how you could see that benefitting your relationship.

[hueyman]

Hey man, I can tell you’re really trying to figure this out and that means something. Seriously. That said, your first post didn’t really sound calm or objective. It sounded like someone overwhelmed and trying to make sense of a hard situation, which is totally understandable.

Reading through it, I couldn’t help but wonder if she really wanted that job, maybe more than she let on... Do you think so? And now that you’re moving forward and she’s not, it might feel like a punch to the gut or worse. If she really wanted the position and she thinks you know how much, maybe in some way she views you getting further and potentially accepting as you saying "I get what you want, haha", which doesn't appear to be the reality but the mind can be cruel. She might feel like she’s in competition with you, even if she doesn’t want to. That kind of stuff sneaks in, especially when you’re both in the same field and applying for the same roles. I’m guessing she hates that feeling too but doesn’t know how to stop it. Being together for 8 years really means something, but being in direct competition like this would be hard for most couples, even without BPD symptoms in the mix.

It also kind of sounds like she’s reacting from a place of feeling inadequate or overlooked. That probably leaves her confused and raw. She might be thinking, if he says I’m so smart, then why doesn’t anyone else see it? Was he lying to me? And if she suspects any kind of bias from the committee, like maybe being passed over because she’s a woman or just not being taken seriously, that can hit hard. Especially if she’s had experiences like that before. It’s a crappy feeling when you can’t do anything to change it and it just keeps happening. No one likes feeling that out of control.

You mentioned she hasn’t been diagnosed with BPD, and yeah, some of the stuff you described might look like it, but it could also just be someone reacting to fear and shame. That doesn’t mean she has BPD. It might just mean she’s hurting and doesn’t really know how to explain or manage it yet.

And I get that you're trying to be the steady one. That’s important. But when someone’s in that much emotional pain, staying calm and logical can feel cold. Even if you mean well, it can come across like judgment. Or worse, like quiet resentment.

You asked how to make her feel like a partner and not a burden. I think it starts with really showing her that you see what’s going on underneath. Even if you don’t agree with how it’s coming out. You both came into the relationship with your own histories, your own ways of coping. Maybe she does have BPD, or maybe this is all tied to stuff that goes way deeper than just this one job. You may never know fully. But she’s probably not acting out because she wants to hurt you. She might just be scared. You had mentioned being in another country so I assume she is too. I can't imagine that's been easy on her either.

There might be small ways you can show up that help her feel seen. For me, something that has helped is doing something thoughtful here and there. Or getting here a gift put of no where. Nothing big. Just stuff I know my partner likes. Flowers sometimes, her favorite snacks, something personal or something she would want but never get for herself. It isn’t about the gift, it is about her knowing I was still there and still seeing her, even when things felt shaky. Especially during the good moments when things were more calm I see it is best. I think that it has helped her feel more secure overall though didn't solve everything.

Listen... even in the spirals, you're not her enemy. And I don’t think she really sees you that way either. You've been together too long for me to come to that conclusion. Honestly, I think she probably sees herself as the enemy. And that’s a brutal place to live in. Maybe what she needs most is to feel like you’re still on her side, even when she’s not really on her own.

[DeltaV]

Thank you to all of you. I did write the first one while I myself was at work, unable to concentrate, frustrated, unable to understand her. I did write it with some anger and resentment.

I think I'm pretty good at separating emotions from my decisions, but I guess self-perspectives can be wrong. I do want to learn how to love her better and make our relationship healthier, so I deeply respect all of these pieces of advice. I won't reply to each point directly, but paint a broader picture of what I think.

I have no intention of breaking up or anything like that. I was also angry because she was gaslighting me a bit. She totally shut down, was slamming doors, lay in bed for 12 hours with the lights off, wouldn't answer any questions from me (i.e., I've enjoyed making her coffee, and I asked if she would like some. She didn't even acknowledge my question. I stood there for about 30 seconds and then left quietly.) After she finally opened up to speak about it, she denied ever being upset with me, and just said she was having cramps and a headache, that's all, and I was imagining it all. I did react quite strongly to that. I shouldn't have really. She has never acted this way before when having cramps or a headache and I definitely tried too hard to "prove it". I am trying very hard to turn off that part of my brain that always thinks "emotions are real and you should listen to them, but they can also be wrong about the actual reality of the situation."

After I told her about my continuation in the interview process, I went and sat next to her and said I was really sorry that she didn't get to continue, that I know she's amazing at her job and they are being stupid for not seeing it. I tried to hug her a bit and she pushed me away, and then I said I understand she's hurting and I am very sorry. It's never easy to feel like you're not seen for your true skillset and ability. I thought I did as much as I could to validate her feelings, and tried to show her that they are wrong for not seeing her value. I'm not trying to paint it as "I did no wrong", just trying to explain how I acted. I did do some reading about this sort of thing a few years back, and was in my head going over what to say to her to help her see that I do see her emotions and they are real.

I do feel emotions too, but I've always been the type, when I feel bad, to have a 30 minute walk, let my head work through them, and once they're dissipated to see past them to what actually happened, not just how I feel about what happened. Maybe that makes me emotionally distant to her? 2 years in with her, which I totally admit was much too long for me to learn this, I realized she doesn't see emotions the same as me, and I totally stopped expecting her to have a similar reaction to situations as me. I knew that to her, emotions were... stronger? More overwhelming? I still struggle to truly, deeply, understand that because I've never felt them that way. It's tough for me to understand how she sees it. But I am trying to see it that way.

I guess what hurt me most was that she seemed to blame me for this particular situation. She got her online interview before me, about an hour before, and we both agreed the other would stay in a different room with the door closed to not make noises/distract the person. I was in the other room with headphones in watching a youtube video for the whole interview process she did. After about 50 minutes, I was wondering why it was still going on (me and her both thought it would be a 40 minute interview) so I quietly went to the door and opened it to see if it was still going on. When I saw she was still doing it, I went back to the other room and put headphones back in. Now, after finding out I am going further and she isn't in the process, she seems to believe I secretly listened to the whole thing and prepared for it better by knowing what sort of things they would ask. I didn't, but she still doesn't believe me. She said that I opened the door as proof that I listened to it, and I explained I didn't and why the door was opened. I literally heard 30 seconds towards the end, that's all.

I guess the reason I'm telling this story is that it hurts me too that she doesn't believe me. I don't want her to think I am lying about this. I don't know how to explain it to her so she believes me. But maybe, even though it hurts that she doesn't believe me, I guess my mistake was trying too hard to "prove" to her that I wasn't doing that. I guess I'm just emotionally exhausted...

But thanks to everyone who responded. I've started writing down my thoughts and trying to work through the situation and what I could've done better. I'll try harder to, instead of trying to be optimistic and tell her we'll be okay and this is just one rejection and it doesn't mean anything about her intelligence, to instead just empathize with her emotions about it. I will say that I did not immediately try to this time, but instead just affirmed that she does feel real emotions and they do matter. It was just an instant blaming of me and that she can never compete with me and she's always second to me. I truly don't think that's true and she's better than me in some things and I in other things. We complement each other well professionally. But every time I say that, I feel like she thinks I am lying just to make her feel better. Anyway, I know I am just writing down one side of the situation, but I am 100% sure I did things wrong with this situation. I will keep writing down my thoughts daily, and try to figure it out. I want to be with her (we are engaged) and just want to make sure I learn better how to understand what she needs from me.

I think that's all I have to say for now. I'll ruminate on this quietly for the next few weeks. Currently, I'm struggling to work and be productive. I am feeling quite anxious, something I've never had a problem with, and mentally apathetic. I find myself staring at a wall for an hour straight, no real thoughts in my head. I'm going to try and get through this right now first. I can't be there for her when I'm like this.

[hueyman]

Since you want to be with her and leaving isn't a plan on yours then this is my take:
Writing stuff down is good, but trust and communication are what really matter. If she doesn’t feel heard or doesn’t trust where you’re coming from, even the best explanations won’t land. I know it’s exhausting, and it makes sense you’re drained. But sometimes trying too hard to prove your point just makes it worse. I am sure she feels drained to, no matter if she has BPD or not. Perhaps she has giving up with trying to explain things to you as well.

She might be picking up on something in the interview stuff that you’re not seeing. I am not saying she’s right, but it’s worth considering her perspective because she might be at least more right than you think. And if you do think she is smart as you say you do, then maybe it is worth considering her perspective. Her perspective might help you understand why she thinks that perhaps she is being treated worse than you.
 
At the end of the day, showing up and making space for how she feels is going to go further than trying to fix it. if she doesn't have BPD, maybe she just has trouble managing feeling inadequate which is probably even more difficult if she has been working for years towards a career/job/field that keeps rejecting her.

Keep thinking on it but don't let that get in the way of your relationship and living!