Validation is confusing to me

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

This obviously was an extreme issue in my last relationship, but I feel it come up with everyone really. I'll give an example from my last ex:

-snoozes the alarm 5 times
-we're rushing to leave, so I take the pets out, feed the dogs/her cats, get her food ready for the day
-driving into work already late, and I stop at a red light vs run it

This triggers a meltdown. I'm told how I'm not aggressive enough in life, I'm a bad driver, and I just made us late. There's yelling, cursing and name calling from her to me. And she tells me if I'm just going to make us late, maybe we should drive separately....what?

How do you validate this? To me it's complete insanity, and of course I 'defend' myself. I remind her she snoozed the alarm 5 times, that I took care of everything before leaving, and that we were only late because she didn't want to wake up. Us driving separate would have resulted in her either calling in and sleeping all day or her being even later.

If I just agree and apologize, I'm just taking a 'beating' with no boundaries. If I disagree, with literally every fact supporting me, I'm invalidating. I read the article on this site regarding validation and it says it isn't about facts, but being open to the other person's emotions or perceptions. And sure, I too was annoyed that we were late and hitting every red light. I was already speeding. But I won't drive like her, just wreck less and switching in and out of lanes running lights. It got to a point where I told her 'your version of validation, is just me agreeing with you and taking blame for everything. you're allowed to have your emotions and perceptions, but I don't have to agree with them'. Just argue for hours or a couple days unless I blindly agreed.

The older I get I am seeing a lot of people lash out like this and blame someone else for something they literally caused. I find it hard to entertain situations like this when the other person just pounces on you. With BPD and all it's much worse. Accountability for negative outcomes seems very hard for a lot of people.

[Me88]

This obviously was an extreme issue in my last relationship, but I feel it come up with everyone really. I'll give an example from my last ex:

-snoozes the alarm 5 times
-we're rushing to leave, so I take the pets out, feed the dogs/her cats, get her food ready for the day
-driving into work already late, and I stop at a red light vs run it

This triggers a meltdown. I'm told how I'm not aggressive enough in life, I'm a bad driver, and I just made us late. There's yelling, cursing and name calling from her to me. And she tells me if I'm just going to make us late, maybe we should drive separately....what?

How do you validate this? To me it's complete insanity, and of course I 'defend' myself. I remind her she snoozed the alarm 5 times, that I took care of everything before leaving, and that we were only late because she didn't want to wake up. Us driving separate would have resulted in her either calling in and sleeping all day or her being even later.

If I just agree and apologize, I'm just taking a 'beating' with no boundaries. If I disagree, with literally every fact supporting me, I'm invalidating. I read the article on this site regarding validation and it says it isn't about facts, but being open to the other person's emotions or perceptions. And sure, I too was annoyed that we were late and hitting every red light. I was already speeding. But I won't drive like her, just wreck less and switching in and out of lanes running lights. It got to a point where I told her 'your version of validation, is just me agreeing with you and taking blame for everything. you're allowed to have your emotions and perceptions, but I don't have to agree with them'. Just argue for hours or a couple days unless I blindly agreed.

The older I get I am seeing a lot of people lash out like this and blame someone else for something they literally caused. I find it hard to entertain situations like this when the other person just pounces on you. With BPD and all it's much worse. Accountability for negative outcomes seems very hard for a lot of people.

[CC43]

Hi there,

The scenario you describe is very typical in my opinion.  She's on edge and upset, probably at herself for not getting her act together in the morning, and she's "primed" to detect anything other than perfect performance from you.  Even if you were driving safely, she sees your driving as a transgression, and she lashes out, while blaming you for her problems in the process!  She might not even be able to identify the source of her stress or general anxiety--she might merely resent feeling tired, rushed, or "forced" to work at a job in the first place, and she might resent you for not taking care of her enough or paying all the bills (entitlement is a typical BPD trait).  She's so frustrated, wound up and/or annoyed that she lashes out at the tiniest provocation.  Even if you sigh or turn your head the "wrong" way, she could interpret that as condescending, aggressive or dismissive.  Does that sound familiar?  She has to unleash her stress and/or ill feelings, and since you're with her, you bear the brunt of it.

What I try to do is exit the situation, without saying a word, because all the words that come to mind involve JADE (justifying, arguing, defending or explaining), which we know don't work well when BPD is involved.  Rather, I try to slip silently out of the room.  If they follow me looking for a fight, I'll try to slip away again.

Now the situation you describe has happened to me:  getting attacked while also being stuck in a car.  Therefore I can't easily escape, especially if they are the ones who are driving.  What I do in that case is the gray rock technique:  I sit as still as possible, staring straight ahead, and act as boring as a gray rock.  In other words, I avoid getting drawn into a fight, and I don't match their emotional energy.  I stay as calm as possible and hope that her tirade peters out.  If she says something like, Don't you have anything to say for yourself / Why are you ignoring me?, you might reply, There's nothing I could say to make it better, in as neutral a tone as I can muster.  And then I go back to being a gray rock.  If she gets really riled up, you might say something like, "It's not safe to argue while driving.  Let's stop talking until we get to the destination."  If that doesn't work, you might pull over and take a break, in the name of safety.

Now, her idea of driving separately might not be the worst idea.  I understand that some people actually seem to like the stress of impending lateness, which is the only motivation which gets them moving.  I know I'm the opposite:  I'd rather leave a little early and avoid the stress of potentially being late.  By going separately, you both might end up doing what you naturally prefer.  To illustrate, my parents were on the opposite ends of the early/late spectrum, and they were so different that they would go their separate ways to the airport!  My mother would leave early and walk calmly to the gate; she did not want to feel rushed or have to run with her luggage.  My father on the other hand seemed to enjoy running through TSA lines to the gate, and boarding a plane directly without any waiting.  The solution was for them to go separately to airports, to keep the peace!

Finally, I might add that based on my experience with a loved one with BPD, she's constantly complaining of being tired.  She could sleep 12-14 hours at night/into the early afternoon and still want to take naps later.  Given the amount of time she spends in a bed, I have doubts if she really understands what "tired" is.  I think it's her code for saying, "I'm overwhelmed / I have anxiety / I don't want to face the pressure of a job/school/obligations / I'm retreating in avoidance."  There are times when she has reason to be tired, but she's just not able to "power through" the temporary discomfort (i.e. drink a cup of coffee, put on a smile and plan to go to bed early).  I think that her tolerance of discomfort and stress is extraordinarily low, and that manifests as feeling tired as well as sleeping excessively.  I also wonder that since she's in bed so much, the quality of her sleep is low, and she has thrown off her circadian rhythm, meaning she's tired and/or hungry at the wrong times, and she's basically operating in a constant state of jet lag.  If that sounds like your situation, I'd recommend trying to encourage regular sleep/wake times, plus regular meals.  Having a healthy routine actually reduces stress.

[Me88]

This was my most recent past relationship. But what you said, exactly how everything went:

"Even if you sigh or turn your head the "wrong" way, she could interpret that as condescending, aggressive or dismissive."

I could be outside all morning doing stuff, come in and take a deep breath and apparently I'm mad at her. And I'm pressed to tell her why. And that became an hour of crying and yelling.

And yes, when I did walk away I was told I didn't care enough to fight for her/us. Then of course I JADE. Car rides were a big part of our arguments. Stuck being yelled at is pretty stressful in traffic. Or being hit when driving. Just not fun.

And the sleep thing? yes. Could sleep alllll day, then need naps. Then get up at 2am, and literally eat an entire box of cereal, ice cream, and more. Made no sense to me. I did try to kindly get us on schedules of sleep and eating but that never worked. All she wanted was to get more prescriptions to solve her issues vs making personal changes.

I guess what I'm wondering, is, in these more 'crazy' situations, validation isn't really warranted. Just sort of try to disappear. I can validate and apologize if I've done something. I just find it impossible to do when everything is chaos and insanely exaggerated or even made up. 

[Notwendy]

I think there is a learning curve with learning any new skill. Every relationship involves both people. I think the focus tends to be on the pwBPD- as their behaviors are the more obviously challenging, but we can not change another person, only ourselves. The "tools" encourage us to look at what we are doing.

Validation isn't a "complete fix it" tool. I don't think even in the moment, if someone is upset, that validation is going to calm them down completely. I think it's a way to not escalate the situation, if at all possible. It also doesn't mean validating something that isn't valid.

Your ex was late, stressed, and having an emotional melt down. Emotional dysregulation isn't rational. Also consider projection. "you made her late" - actually she made herself late. Sometimes projections are more about the person than they are about the partner.

Where you may have added to the emotions in the moment was when you felt you needed to defend yourself in order to not have another "beating " as you describe it. What if this isn't true?  If something isn't true, you don't have to defend it. If she called you a pink elephant would you then try to defend that you aren't one? Hopefully not. You know you aren't a pink elephant. You don't have to defend that. "You made her late" isn't true either. You still have the choice to defend yourself if you wish but trying to be rational and correct her while she's emotionally upset- won't change how she feels in the moment. You can decide to prove you are right, but you can also decide that trying to do that in the moment isn't working anyway.

To not defend yourself, to not engage, and even if you need to leave the room for a few moments isn't "taking a beating". It's recognizing that what she was saying is a projection, not true, and the emotions in the moment. It's letting her sit with her own feelings- and not adding to the drama. 

Validating in this moment would be saying something like "I understand you are feeling upset about being late" I will leave the room for a moment to collect my things and get the car ready and then we can go". Then you let her sit with her own feelings.

This isn't going to "fix" how someone else thinks. PwBPD tend to see things from victim perspective. She may still be emotionally reactive to things that may or may not be true. It's about doing what you can to turn down the temperature in the relationship so you aren't as emotionally reactive, so you can collect your thoughts. Whether or not a relationship can be improved or not- that is individual and not something one can predict.

The relationship you had is over and perhaps this is the best anyone could have done in this situation. However having validation skills will help any relationship- not just with a person with BPD. Everyone gets upset at some times and could use some validation.

[Me88]

I agree. I absolutely know I'm not some perfect angel. I'm using this last relationship and all of its confusing parts to work on me. I've read
, closing in on 20 books now. I just want to be a better version of me now. Single, or with someone (which isn't even an idea at all in my brain). Yes, the focus is on "her", since this is the most challenging personal relationship I have ever had. I imagine i can grow a lot from it.

Your second paragraph makes sense. I know it isn't a fix it all tool. The tricky part for me is the "doesn't mean validating something that isn't valid" part.

I've experienced a lot of projections lately: work, friends, etc.

And I do add to it. Thankfully with my friends and family, most people just disengage. With my ex, nothing was ever over, unless it ended on her terms. I wish I were exaggerating as well. If she read all of this I guarantee she wouldn't disagree. We were in couples counseling for a months, and she never denied anything I said.

Pink elephant. Sure. There were a handful of situations where she literally made things up. Truly, nonsensical, situations that never happened. And we HAD to argue about it. I had to address it. I had to get in line and piece it all together without knowing what was even happening. Ask questions and then follow the trail to whatever perceived wrong I committed. And sure, I didn't have to entertain this. But if I didn't, you better be sure it'll come up weekly. And confusingly, it was after love, care, affection, praise, endless sex... Then, we need to talk about what you did.

My goal wasn't always to be right. Honestly, I'd be happier just letting things go. But that was impossible. I always tried to reassure her, tell her she has a right to be upset, but I couldn't ever agree in those moments where something was just so crazy or made up. If it didn't happen, I cant take fault.

I don't want to better for her, but for me. I imagine building skills based on an extreme situation can make easier ones more manageable.