>Advice on how to help our son with his wife;s PPD and abuse

[ssvh]

I would like to ask this of those of you who are dealing or have dealt with a spouse who is Paranoid (or who have a child/friend with a spouse with PPD)
Our son has been so beaten down by her controlling  and abusive relationship with her
He has trouble standing up to her paranoia as she gets to upset
This past week it became scary and abusive :
1.She was paranoid of a new neighbor -wanted to get a gun to 'protect themselves" He DID refuse that then let her get knives
2,That scared him  he stayed out late at work and she was upset --slapped him and told him she wanted to throw him out the window
3. We were visiting from out of town and next day  saw him he said  he was afraid of dying  was going to get her coffee was afraid  to tell her we were visiting We called 988 and got him to a crisis center who  got him to do a 48 hours cooling  off
4. She agree to get rid of knives after three days went back and  seemed to 'make up'
But of course claims she 'abandoned him '  her mother is NO  help texted him that 'stupid. of him' rto not go back and not to allow the people ('strangers' from the crisis center in as part of planned reconciliation...


BUT so many other abuses due to her paranoia  

--- did not let him go to the urgent care  or ER after their  cat bit his head (he snuck off and finally did it)  there are some that are bad she claims
-- she will not let him go to a doctor/dentist (same reason a above
---She will not let him get  a drivers  license--She refused to get the car fixed. i did not like  the car repair places EVEN when the front seat belt broke !  MY sister inlaw died not wearing a seatbelt --so our son was terrified--blocked to door so he could not get out We are trying to get her to go visit her mother out east --fixed a phone for her to have but he was afraid to bering it to her  (she would be afraid of someone spying )
ON and on --With us nearby he told her off  on the phone after the knife incident But she is so submissive --we are urging  divorce   but  he claims there are good times and assumes there are and that is the problem..PLEASE HELP  with giving us  advice to give him on how to handle her if he does stay for now --he know all she does is wrong//Is there are way? She of course doesn't think she is mentally ill 
And how do  WE handle her MOTHER who is   like that??? Her father with another family/marraige  refuses to help..

Thank you!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[ssvh]

ALSO  we leave  2,000 miles away we were lucky to be with him this week...
Can't always be with him --and he was bullied as a kid so this is replication of  the bully -- those at crisis center saw that.. we keep urging therapy. of course she does not approve

[Notwendy]

I'm sorry you are going through this. Your son is unfortunately in an abusive relationship- and these kinds of relationships are complicated.

I don't know if my BPD mother got into knives, like your DIL but she was controlling and verbally/emotionally abusive. At one time, I called social services to ask what I could do as my father was elderly and I was concerned about him.

What I was told is that- my father was legally competent- and unless he was willing to acknowlege the abusive situation- I could not intervene on his behalf.

These relationships are complicated because they are cyclic. There are good times. It's hard to convince someone that the relationship is abusive because, the person isn't always abusive. After an abusive event, the person is also sometimes remorseful and acts very nice, but the abusive cycle continues.

Be aware of the Karman triangle. When you attempt to intervene in this relationship, you become a threat to the spouse with PD and the relationship. The two of them may bond together "against" you and/or since she is in control- she will not allow him to be in contact with you.

Counseling for you can give you professional guidance on your best role in this situation.

Your son stated this himself- he doesn't want to leave the relationship. As a legal adult, he has this choice. I think he's aware of how you feel about it. He's already been in the crisis center and wants to go back to the relationship. Since this is a short visit and you live at a distance- I think it would be important to prioritize maintaining contact with your son during this time and after, and maintain a good relationship with him. It may be that being polite and cordial to the DIL and her mother during this time is the better way to do this.

This is difficult but, in my situation, there was no convincing my father to not stay and he did. I am sure it was difficult for his family to see this too. Their decision was to stay cordial with my mother and to maintain contact with him If BPD mother perceived someone as "not on her side" contact would have been cut off.

[ssvh]

Thank you for your  good thoughts--It seems he is finally turning towards thoughts of leaving her --but yes-- he remembers the good times --and that is what makes it difficult --It was their move out west that made  her worse ---
She rarely feels remorse --but he told me via phone last night that she somewhat did--seemed at least a turning point in him able to talk to her--
And while there were some years he would not see us. --That has changed --he has kept good communication since 2022--And doubt he will allow that to change again. 
He would like to move close to us again --if he can get a job--but that is not easy these days-- and I think that is because we are his support system in all of this.

The question is --we wonder if her mother  -really knows all that she has done--and if it worthwhile to let her know-Her  mother is mentally ill too and once tried to kill herself-- DIL. found her in time

We  called DIL's mother  5 years ago when when we 1st saw the  DIL phychotic ramblings and vicious emails to us We called and she  denied everything--Said her Daughter's emails were 'hacked'.  DIL often claims the same to us --

I tried on Facebook chat last year but no response --Now I have her new phone number as I did not have it.
Our son DID tell us that DIL's  mother  told DIL to get rid of knives and not risk her marriage-- so she knew THAT at least was wrong and she knew that she could hurt someone 
Do we urge her to get her daughter therapy?

(Her father does know and apologized on Facebook chat to me when I informed him of abuses last year --said he was so sorry but did  not  think he could do anything has already tried)

[Notwendy]

Extended family of the pwBPD is also complicated. Having a disordered family member affects the whole family, and it's possble some of them also have some form of PD. Some family members are also enablers and "take the side" of the pwBPD.

As to the mother- this is her mother and she has her own feelings about people being critical of her daughter. Also consider, she's been dealing with her daughter's behavior for years as well. Being critical of the daughter may feel to her like you are telling her she's been a bad mother. This isn't likely to go well with her. Also, she can't control a grown adult daughter.

You are also a mother- to your son and in a similar way- you take his side in this, you want the best for him. You see the DIL as the issue but the actual reality- and this is hard to acknowlege- is that the dynamics between your son and his wife involve both of them. From the outside, it doesn't make sense that someone would stay in an abusive relationship but it's very complicated.

I also perceived my BPD mother as the problem in the family and it took some time to realize my father was a part of the dynamics too. He knew what was going on, rationally but emotionally - that was different. In addition, when my mother was in her good moods, she was great- beautiful, witty, charming. One reason we had different perspectives was that- a romantic bond is unique- it's strong. It is different from the bond with other family members. We don't have much power or influence compared to this.

Seeking validation from my mother's family didn't work, and in fact- they saw me as being the "one with the problem" and defended my mother. Only in time did a few of them see her behavior and change perspective but some didn't.

This is my own (unprofessional) opinion, based on my own experience with parents who stayed together their entire lives. (both are deceased now- Dad passed first) and speaking to others about them, trying to intervene- made things worse for my relationship with them and with my father.

I think your son and his wife and her family are well aware of your feelings. I think your main goal is to preserve the relationship with your son- no matter what he decides.  IMHO, the more you push against this relationship- the greater the risk of losing this entirely.

Due to me naively stepping in to save my aging and aling father from this situation- my mother got angry- interfered with my relationship with him. I know you have your son's best interest at heart- but your son is with his wife now and her influence is greater than yours.

[ssvh]

Yes we have always figured  her mother would  of course take her side --But we also  see there are three enablers : 1 . Our son in giving to her paranoid thinking (he now sees this) 2. Us in helping financially -as she will not  work --has tried four grad schools and quit--the last after a week and a half-- and 3. Her mother not helping her see she needs therapy.
We thought gently explaining that of course she wants her daughter to succeed. and  that her daughter  IS brilliant creative talented-- ( we believe this) .....think what her daughter's life would be like if she only could  agree to therapy.......

[Notwendy]

We thought gently explaining that of course she wants her daughter to succeed. and  that her daughter  IS brilliant creative talented-- ( we believe this) .....think what her daughter's life would be like if she only could  agree to therapy.......

I thought so too. My BPD mother was brilliant, charming, beautiful. If only...

However, she had an enabler- my father- who fortunately had the financial means to provide for her and yet, even so, there were financial issues from this situation. My father was a part of the dynamics in the relationship. Your son is too. Yet, we don't have control over another person.

Because of the denial and projection, and avoidance of shame, my BPD mother could not consider that she may have had issues to work on. She did have therapy but was resistant to it.

I don't know if you have considered 12 step groups and/or counseling. 12 step groups like CODA help with these dynamics, even if there isn't substance/alcohol abuse because they help families manage enabling behaviors.

Of the three enabler situations, there's only one you have control over and that is your financial support. As hard as it is to not help your son financially, and in other ways- enabling in any way can prevent the person from experiencing the consequences of their situation- the consequences that could help motivate them to change.

If you feel it's important to you to try to speak to the mother- then do so, but also know that the reaction may or may not be what you'd hope for. Even if the mother did encourage therapy,  the daughter may or may not agree to that or be willing to work with the therapist.

From my own experience, therapy and CODA/ACA groups for me was most helpful. I would recommend it for anyone dealing with these kinds of dynamics.