She needs me to be broken, so she can feel needed (I think)

[MovieMan]

Ok, so I had a bit of a lightbulb moment today, but I need to check whether it's something someone else has experienced before I call it a legit lightbulb moment. I will also discuss it with my therapist when he is back from leave to see whether it holds water.

So my BPD wife of 23 years has always regarded herself as someone with immense instincts for healing others, and to be fair, she really does. Without any formal training, her understanding of the human body and what it needs in terms of supplementation is off the charts.  She has helped so many of our friends and family in this way. Truly made a difference in lives. And that is golden and beautiful.

But, I've been suspecting that it has a dark side, and that it is something she uses to control our relationship in order to feel safe and needed.

I had a very traumatic childhood, and have been very broken for most of my life, and she has always been there and helped and supported me. For which I am so grateful, and it's also one of the reasons I truly want to find ways to do the same for her.

But the challenge I face is as follows:

I have made significant strides over the last few years, and have healed so much, and the timeline of my improvement correlates perfectly with her sudden and intense research into proving that I am a narcissist.
Ever since I learnt about BPD, I can now look back and see the patterns so clearly, but over the past few years, they have intensified massively. So much so that her arguments are now almost a daily occurrence.

Now, I suspect that it is because I am healing, and her trauma is feeling that I will no longer need her, because it thinks, all I want from her, is the healing part. And because I am so much better, she has become so much worse. 
I suspect that her theory of my narcissism is something her BPD is creating in order to give me a permanent affliction, now that my childhood trauma is healing.

But like I said, this is just a theory that popped up today and I wont put any solid acceptance behind it until it's confirmed by my therapist.

Any comments will be appreciated.

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[Alex V]

Hi Movieman,

I recognize a lot in what you say.

I have changed a lot in the last 10 years. Done a lot of self-development. I have become less of a perfectionist and more relaxed. Developed much more self-confidence and where I used to worry about things, I now often think "it will be okay". I also started to make my own plan more often. In the past, I wouldn't have done activities that interest me if my wife didn't want to participate. In recent years I have said to her more and more often: "too bad, but I'll go / do it anyway".

My wife left me without telling me why. What she did say is that she feels small. Financially dependent. Anxious. Has mood swings. Alone. Not happy. Unsafe. That she can't set boundaries and lets her bounderies be crossed. That I cross her boundaries (which she does not indicate). Projects her emotions 
She said all this between the lines. Not as a reason why she wants to leave. I find that difficult to understand. I get the feeling that she knows but can't name it. I think she actually walks away from her mirror (me).

I think there are a whole bunch of reasons why she feels the way she does.
Menopause. Children who become more independent. Physical discomfort (hip), No job. Moving to the countryside. COVID. And I who have started to adapt less to her compulsion. Started pleasing less.

All in all, I am now more often in a state that I also think I don't want to continue with her. I see our relationship as a watering can and bucket. I am the watering can and she is the bucket. I always fill the bucket to keep my wife happy and calm (avoidance behavior?). Unfortunately, the bucket is leaking. I have to keep pouring. Only I have changed. I may have started to throw less water in the bucket. And another unfortunately. The bucket is leaking and the holes are getting bigger. And now I don't have enough water to keep the level in the bucket up. The bottom has been reached. I can no longer conform to her wishes. I have changed too much to put myself in place 2 and no longer want to take responsibility for her feelings.

Back to you.
I think you can learn a lot on this site how to get the situation more stable again. If you are willing to do so. That requires adjustment from you and maybe your wife is also willing to adapt.
I still love my wife, but I can't stand her behavior anymore. I'm no longer willing.

I wish you a lot of wisdom. I hope you find a way.

[Alex V]

Additionally.
In the past I have had a feeling I had to be broken to the ground before our relationship could be build up again. But she can't take me to that level anymore. So she has to leave?

[Rowdy]

My wife was the same, her understanding of the body, how she could read her own body and her ability to be able to tell if someone she knew had a serious underlying illness was quite uncanny.

I was quite ill once, nearly 15 years ago. I had a sudden collapsed lung and was taken to hospital by ambulance while my wife was out hiking with her mother. I was in a pretty bad way and was in hospital for a month, but the first time she came into the hospital gave me such a torrent of abuse I actually wanted her to be removed from the hospital, but for the following month, after an operation that didn’t go to plan and led to the onset of septicaemia her understanding of the body and the way she fought with my surgeon probably saved my life.

After we separated I had a motorcycle accident, I wasn’t badly injured, broken rib, wrist and a few abrasions, but the scans picked up a few problems, a tumour on my pelvis and another on my adrenal gland (which produces the stress hormone… funny that!) and possible emphysema from my historical lung problems, and every time I got an appointment through for the hospital she would insist on coming with me.

Even after getting with my current girlfriend if she knew I had a hospital appointment she would message me asking if I wanted her to come, but would promptly delete the message, which is a little odd. Maybe it’s a heroic impulse, a sense of purpose, or something to make them feel a little less empty and numb.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Movieman-

I absolutely believe you’re on the right track here.  I also read your other post and have to say that I am so so sorry for the emotional distress and torture your wife is putting you through.  You do NOT deserve to be abused in this manner.  Not at all. 

And please don’t call yourself a narcissist.  Nothing in your writing indicates you have any of the hard narcissistic traits.  I’ve been in two LT relationships, totaling 26.5 years with BPD/NPD men (confirmed), so yep, sadly I have experience there.

It takes so much focused work to heal from childhood sexual and other abuse.  I understand firsthand.  I am a woman, now 68, and I can tell you that the visions and feelings periodically haunt me to this day.  Healing is a lifelong journey and you cannot give up on yourself or allow ANYONE to block your path, including the person you marry.  And your chosen person should be THE person who keeps that healing path clear for you, who walks it with you.

You have obviously learned to give love freely and with all of your heart, but if you find that she is breaking your trust, that love will falter…and she will lose you.  She is the one who needs to be cautious here.  Her careless name-calling is just reckless, in my opinion…especially with her knowing what you’ve been through.  And you ARE correct, I think.  It’s a power play. A “narcissistic” power play to keep you down and set you back.  She’s the one showing those traits, not you.  I’m kind of angry right now, especially at the mentioning in your other post where she was indicating using your kids in a threat against you..  Sorry.

She is not all powerful.  No one is.  Anyone can read psychology books and then parrot what they read and point fingers so they don’t have to look at themselves or reflect on their own behavior.  Does she or Has she ever reflected on her own behavior?

Something I’ve noticed that has puzzled me over the years - how some people do this separation of BPD from the “person”.  I was never able to reconcile that separation because their behaviors were so woven into everyday life - so much tippy toeing around to be sure the explosions didn’t happen.  Maybe it’s different with disordered men?So many things were so erratic and unpredictable at times.  I don’t know…I lived in a state of anticipation for so many years.

In the end I learned I could not love someone to wellness.  It was so sad.

I’m sorry for so many words.  But please, I know your inclination is to blame yourself.  Not this time.  No.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[zachira]

It is a shock and a hurtful disappointment when the people we are closest to us do not welcome our healing and instead do everything to go back to the way things were. Your are likely right that your wife does not want you to get better, that she needs you to need her in unhealthy ways so your relationship will not change and grow And she will not be challenged to change. Marriage therapy was developed because when only spouse was in individual therapy, that spouse was growing and changing while the other spouse could not adjust to the changes in the relationship dynamics And oftentimes the marriage ended in divorce.

[Notwendy]

There's great advice here, and I wanted to add to it.

Projection is an aspect of BPD. PwBPD have difficulty managing their own uncomfortable emotions and so, may project them onto someone or something else. Sometimes what they say about or accuse someone else of is more reflective of them than that person.

The "self defense" to being defined or falsely accused is our own boundaries. We can't change how someone else thinks, but we don't have to accept it as true. The boundary is a sense of self- what is me, what isn't me.

A mental exercise that helped me is to substitute in my own mind something absurd for the accusation. If your wife called you a pink elephant would you believe her? No, because you know you aren't one. Also, her saying it wouldn't turn you into one. The accusations aren't as absurd, so it can seem confusing but they can be just as untrue.

BPD affects people of all intelligences, all backgrounds. Some pwBPD are high functioning, with high powered jobs and others can't manage employment or household tasks. BPD affects relationships and it affects the most intimate, closest relationships the most. Someone with BPD may be able to "hold it together" in public, and with aquaintances and also be disfunctional at home with close family members.

Just because your wife is intelligent doesn't give her the power to define you or anyone else. It's good that you are seeing a therapist to work on your past trauma and also your own sense of self, so that you can hold on to your own sense of self in this situation.

[Notwendy]

Something I’ve noticed that has puzzled me over the years - how some people do this separation of BPD from the “person”.  I was never able to reconcile that separation because their behaviors were so woven into everyday life - so much tippy toeing around to be sure the explosions didn’t happen.  Maybe it’s different with disordered men?

It's puzzled us kids too! It seems the men in my mother's circle had more tendency to minimize her behavior and see her in a more postive and appealing way than we did. We did care about her- our perspective was not only negative. She had positive qualities and when she was at her best, she was amazing.

Attraction is a part of it and perhaps what made her attractive was more appealing, culturally, to some men. These same qualities in a man may not be culturally attractive to women. There was a fragility to her, she was very feminine. It wasn't only with romantic relationships, but other men, neighbors, family friends, relatives. Female relatives were less likely to excuse her behavior.

In addition, who we are attracted to and who is attracted to us is complex, unconsious, and also influenced by our family of origin and what is considered attractive in a culture. Similar dynamics are also seen in same sex couples.

I think there's also a societal bias in domestic abuse, with the assumption that men are the abusers and more support for women in abusive relationships. For men, they may not want to admit they are being abused, out of fear of being accused, not believed, or shame for feeling vulnerable. Counselors may be quicker to point DV out to women, but DV happens to men too. I hope that there will be more recognition and support for men in abusive situations.

[CC43]

Hi Movie,

I can see why all this feels so confusing.  On the one hand, your wife is smart, gifted in some ways even.  And yet on the other hand, she harnesses her intelligence to undermine you.  BPD affects close relationships the most.  She knows you well and therefore knows exactly how to push your buttons.

In my (albeit relatively limited) experience, it's common for pwBPD/NPD to accuse others of being a narcissist.  This is mostly projection.  I bet your wife suspects she has some mental issues, differences and/or maladaptive thinking habits.  She's not comfortable with that idea, because it triggers feelings of intense shame, and perhaps ironically, her thoughts about it are distorted and maybe illogical.  She feels so much shame that she can't bear to put things in perspective (I feel traumatized all the time, I'm wired to be extra sensitive, I'm so irritated and anxious that I'm having trouble living my best life, I'm lashing out at my family when they don't deserve it, I hate myself; that's not healthy, maybe I should try therapy or medications, because if I'm miserable I owe it to myself to get some help to feel better.)  Rather, the suspicion of mental illness is eating at her, and she ruminates about it often.  In times of stress, her concerns come out as projections.  She starts calling YOU the narcissist, when you clearly are not one.  That's just a sign that mental illness is top-of-mind for her, and she's primed to detect indications of mental illness everywhere, because everything she sees is through that warped lens.  She starts to accuse and blame YOU, precisely when you feel you're healing from trauma.  Do you want to know what is bugging your wife?  Listen to her complaints and try to read between the lines, especially if what she's complaining about doesn't seem to make sense at first.  She's unconsciously telling you what's bugging her, while she's too afraid to admit it to herself, let alone take any responsibility.  I bet she's blaming you for all sorts of things that have nothing to do with you, correct?  That's classic projection, classic victim mentality, classic BPD.  I'm happy to share more examples of this, because once I figured out projection (basically when a loved one was accusing me of things that were patently, ridiculously untrue), I had a lightbulb moment, just like you.

As for your wife's lack of support when you're feeling stable/happy, my opinion is that could also be a response typical of BPD.  You see, pwBPD often feel miserable.  Seeing others be happy reminds them of how unhappy they feel inside.  I think that's one of the reasons that the holidays are a trigger--the cheerfulness is a reminder of how dissatisfied they feel, and that brings on feelings of resentment as well.  Expectations run high along with her entitlement/need to be the center of attention at all times, and when her needs aren't being met, BAM, she has a meltdown.  You know the expression, misery loves company?  I think in the case of BPD, it's misery loves miserable company.  It's possible that your wife is subconsciously trying to make you miserable, so that she's not so lonely.  In essence she's putting you down, in a misguided attempt to make herself feel better.  She just cannot be happy for you when you're happy.  She feels "abandoned," which is a huge trigger for BPD.  You're delighted when your wife is happy and enjoying her success/friends/hobbies/good health, correct?  Does your wife feel the same way when you're in a good place?  Probably not.  I think that's because of distorted BPD thinking.

There's another phenomenon common with BPD, which is having meltdowns when there is sickness, death or other misfortune in the family.  It seems to me that's because they can't handle the fact that they aren't the center of attention, and that your attention is temporarily diverted in another direction.  The meltdown is a misguided attempt to reclaim that attention.  Does that ring any bells?

I feel it has helped me to understand all these behaviors by separating intellectual age/capabilities from emotional age/capabilities.  While someone may have a strong intellect, their emotional intelligence could be delayed, or show a tendency to regress mightily under stress.  I think with BPD, emotional intelligence could be at a much younger level, such as that of a typical teenager.  Teenagers tend to have low tolerance for distress, and can be impulsive, self-centered, entitled, superficial, demanding, lacking in perspective, petulant, explosive and give up easily.  At that age, emotions are super-sized and seem exaggerated for the situation.  Everything seems black or white, and small setbacks seem like life-altering catastrophies to them.  The world seems overwhelming, and a typical coping response is flight (avoidance, quitting, blocking, procrastinating too much) or fight (shouting, insults, punishments).  Does that sound familiar?  Look, if your wife has BPD and hasn't gotten therapy, she might be facing an adult's complicated world with the emotional skills set of a young teen.  No wonder she seems to fall apart so easily.  In my mind, that's BPD in a nutshell.

Hope that perspective helps you a little.

[Pook075]

My BPD ex wife (of 23 years) was always running to rescue someone.  My 26 year old BPD daughter does exactly the same thing.  As long as they're off saving the world, they feel validated.

For my ex, that could be he brother needing help with their lawn.  Her other brother needing money or food.  Her parents fixing a leaky pipe.  The neighbor trying to find a home for a stray dog.  It really didn't matter what, she was always running towards something.  "But they need me," she'd say as she cancelled our weekend plans or explained why she was getting home at 11 PM for the third night in a row.

Over time, my wife was on the run more and more, there was always something to do or someone to save.  But what she was really doing was running away from our marriage.  Not that it was bad, mind you, but because she just didn't want to face growing as a couple and dealing with what we needed to do.

For instance, we had to replace a porch railing on some stairs.  I bought the lumber, but the wood, and just needed an extra set of hands to put everything together in place.  This weekend we'll do it, I promise.  But months went by, every Saturday and Sunday there was an emergency somewhere, something else she had to do.  Six months went by, and then a year.  Still zero time to help me at our home, even though she's out there "saving the world" and "solving everyone's problems."

For your situation, you're correct in your wife's hero complex.  As I said, my wife and kid both have it as well.  You can use that to your advantage though in needing your wife in a different way.  Show her you want to cook with her, plan with her, handle finances with her, etc.  Make her feel indispensable, because that's how a marriage should feel.

But at the same time, the narcissist attacks must stop.  Make clear boundaries- you want to do life with her, but you don't want the fighting and drama.  It's so hard to find the balance but it is possible.