Question on Push/Pull and how to navigate

[quantumecho77]

It's been about 3 1/2 months since starting communication with this person.  Typical BPD patterns so far: idealization with bold attempt, love bombing etc.  Then a couple weeks of pull back, then a date, then a month of pull back, then another date, now currently in another pull back about one month from our last text. She has been self-aware of her emotions and disclosed her BPD diagnosis to me along with some of her vulnerabilities.

I don't want to get too much into detail to stay anonymous, but during these pullbacks I have never attempted to reach out via text but we do work together, and I just let her engage and she does by flirting, orbiting my space etc.  The first month pullback she also made minimal to no eye contact or engagement at work, I just smiled and went on my way.  Just want to make sure if the no chase/text is the right method to break the cycle or at least minimize the length of the cycle?

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[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family.  Excellent questions!

First, there's no universal right or wrong when it comes to communicating with some with BPD.  If you want to text her, then text her.  If you want to wait it out, that's fine too.  You are communicating at work so it's not like you go months without seeing her.

Two or more things could be happening here.  One, she's involved in other relationships and doing the same push/pull dance with multiple people.  Two, she could feel that you're not interested so she's backing off...yet still hovering and trying to get you to be more engaging. 

Or I could be 100% wrong and she's just not sure what she's doing right now.

I think the real question here is what you want out of the relationship.  Do you want it to be more of a steady boyfriend/girlfriend thing?  Are you comfortable just casually dating?  Talk that out a little more about how the relationship has progressed so far and where you're hoping it will go.

One last piece of advice, if you do pursue her, do so gently.  You're better off being distant than being "clingy".  If you push too hard, it could overwhelm her and then it's game over.  So if you do reach out, start with subtle text (or calls/chats) and progress at her speed.

[Me88]

It's been about 3 1/2 months since starting communication with this person.  Typical BPD patterns so far: idealization with bold attempt, love bombing etc.  Then a couple weeks of pull back, then a date, then a month of pull back, then another date, now currently in another pull back about one month from our last text. She has been self-aware of her emotions and disclosed her BPD diagnosis to me along with some of her vulnerabilities.

I don't want to get too much into detail to stay anonymous, but during these pullbacks I have never attempted to reach out via text but we do work together, and I just let her engage and she does by flirting, orbiting my space etc.  The first month pullback she also made minimal to no eye contact or engagement at work, I just smiled and went on my way.  Just want to make sure if the no chase/text is the right method to break the cycle or at least minimize the length of the cycle?

oh no, you work with her. I know this awful situation all too well. Typically, they want you to chase them or they think you're abandoning them. I mean, even when you're 100% there they feel abandoned. Very common for them to randomly go cold on you, based on a perceived slight that 'you' did. What I've noticed in BPD patterns is there is always someone available as supply. Could be a platonic friend or someone else they're entertaining. I imagine just because you're not reaching out or pursuing her, there's someone else filling that role. 3 1/2 months isn't very long and you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. These relationships tend to snowball into much more confusing situations. Honestly, maybe just ask her what's going on and how she's feeling. That you're noticing two different versions of your 'relationship'. Prepare to be raged at though since she'll think you're attacking her. And her saying it's YOU who's been off.

[SuperDaddy]

Hi quantumecho77 and welcome !

It's important to define well what exactly happens when she pulls back. If it's about treating you as a complete stranger, as if she were completely rejecting you, then that's pretty bad. And if it hurts your feelings, then you should not ignore it.

I can't recall any of my long-term partners ever doing anything like that to me, at least not for more than a few hours. I think it's because they quickly noticed that this would not be tolerated, and they liked me enough to be all in.

I remember once in the very beginning my current wife left me for a few hours without responding in the morning. She then did something that is extremely difficult to accomplish—she made me very anxious. Because I didn't know what was going on in her heart. But I waited patiently for her response to my first message in the morning and didn't show any signs of anxiety to her at all. A few days later, I had a very serious conversation with her about the incident, and she apologized, assuming that she did it just to affect me because she was angry at something I said the day before. Still, after she apologized, I made it clear that I was all in on our romance at the moment, but if that was going to happen frequently, I would be out of it. We have been together for 3 years now, and it has never happened again.

[quantumecho77]

Hello and welcome to the family.  Excellent questions!

First, there's no universal right or wrong when it comes to communicating with some with BPD.  If you want to text her, then text her.  If you want to wait it out, that's fine too.  You are communicating at work so it's not like you go months without seeing her.

Two or more things could be happening here.  One, she's involved in other relationships and doing the same push/pull dance with multiple people.  Two, she could feel that you're not interested so she's backing off...yet still hovering and trying to get you to be more engaging. 

Or I could be 100% wrong and she's just not sure what she's doing right now.

I think the real question here is what you want out of the relationship.  Do you want it to be more of a steady boyfriend/girlfriend thing?  Are you comfortable just casually dating?  Talk that out a little more about how the relationship has progressed so far and where you're hoping it will go.

One last piece of advice, if you do pursue her, do so gently.  You're better off being distant than being "clingy".  If you push too hard, it could overwhelm her and then it's game over.  So if you do reach out, start with subtle text (or calls/chats) and progress at her speed.

Thank you for the warm welcome.

Yeah, so I would like to eventually turn this into a more official relationship.  One thing I didn't disclose is her age: she's a lot younger than I am.  Maybe with her age it's more of a not sure thing on her end?  

And that's where my issue is.  I want to reach out to "check-in" but I don't want to overwhelm her in the process and have this turn into a chase/clingy situation, I want to avoid that at all costs.

oh no, you work with her. I know this awful situation all too well. Typically, they want you to chase them or they think you're abandoning them. I mean, even when you're 100% there they feel abandoned. Very common for them to randomly go cold on you, based on a perceived slight that 'you' did. What I've noticed in BPD patterns is there is always someone available as supply. Could be a platonic friend or someone else they're entertaining. I imagine just because you're not reaching out or pursuing her, there's someone else filling that role. 3 1/2 months isn't very long and you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. These relationships tend to snowball into much more confusing situations. Honestly, maybe just ask her what's going on and how she's feeling. That you're noticing two different versions of your 'relationship'. Prepare to be raged at though since she'll think you're attacking her. And her saying it's YOU who's been off.

Yeah I would like to avoid her blowing up on me too as she hasn't done that or devalued me directly yet.

Hi quantumecho77 and welcome !

It's important to define well what exactly happens when she pulls back. If it's about treating you as a complete stranger, as if she were completely rejecting you, then that's pretty bad. And if it hurts your feelings, then you should not ignore it.

I can't recall any of my long-term partners ever doing anything like that to me, at least not for more than a few hours. I think it's because they quickly noticed that this would not be tolerated, and they liked me enough to be all in.

I remember once in the very beginning my current wife left me for a few hours without responding in the morning. She then did something that is extremely difficult to accomplish—she made me very anxious. Because I didn't know what was going on in her heart. But I waited patiently for her response to my first message in the morning and didn't show any signs of anxiety to her at all. A few days later, I had a very serious conversation with her about the incident, and she apologized, assuming that she did it just to affect me because she was angry at something I said the day before. Still, after she apologized, I made it clear that I was all in on our romance at the moment, but if that was going to happen frequently, I would be out of it. We have been together for 3 years now, and it has never happened again.

Thank you for the welcome.

Yeah, so that happened the first month pullback, she went completely cold towards me but then came back on her own and we set another date, and things were ok for about 2-3 weeks.  During this latest pullback she's been orbiting my space at work at least.

So when she comes around again, I should have this talk?  I feel like it may be too early to establish boundaries, but I have no idea because I never dealt with this before.
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[SuperDaddy]

Hi quantumecho77 ,

Is that situation making you anxious? Since you posted here, I assume this situation is causing you some negative feelings that you want to avoid. I mean, you may be willing to handle these emotions now, but over time, if you allow the pattern to repeat, it will get worse, and there will be a point at which you won't tolerate it anymore.

So yes, I think next time that both of you are talking to each other, it will be a good time for you to communicate to her how you feel about her (the good part), how you feel when she becomes distant (the negative part), and what your expectations are about this relationship. In case you want some sort of stability or continuity, you must let her know. And if that's a requirement for you, then you should make it clear.

People who are insecure may sometimes try to get control over their partner's heart. My wife says that she always did that and always had the upper hand in her previous long-term relationships. She says that she was the one who ended all of them. Except for one short-term bf who dumped her because her mom told him to do it. But in all of her long-term relationships they were chasing her, and our relationship is the only one that happened the other way around (she chases me). And I think part of that is because I never chased her and never played games. I never pretended that she wasn't important either. If I don't respond at the moment, it's because I'm very busy. If I'm cold, it's because I'm angry, and I communicate it if needed to ensure she knows why.

[quantumecho77]

Hi quantumecho77 ,

Is that situation making you anxious? Since you posted here, I assume this situation is causing you some negative feelings that you want to avoid. I mean, you may be willing to handle these emotions now, but over time, if you allow the pattern to repeat, it will get worse, and there will be a point at which you won't tolerate it anymore.

So yes, I think next time that both of you are talking to each other, it will be a good time for you to communicate to her how you feel about her (the good part), how you feel when she becomes distant (the negative part), and what your expectations are about this relationship. In case you want some sort of stability or continuity, you must let her know. And if that's a requirement for you, then you should make it clear.

People who are insecure may sometimes try to get control over their partner's heart. My wife says that she always did that and always had the upper hand in her previous long-term relationships. She says that she was the one who ended all of them. Except for one short-term bf who dumped her because her mom told him to do it. But in all of her long-term relationships they were chasing her, and our relationship is the only one that happened the other way around (she chases me). And I think part of that is because I never chased her and never played games. I never pretended that she wasn't important either. If I don't respond at the moment, it's because I'm very busy. If I'm cold, it's because I'm angry, and I communicate it if needed to ensure she knows why.

The first time it made me anxious but now the second time I'm managing it a little better.  I believe I have both traits of anxious and secured attachment and need to rid the anxious side as I hate feeling that way.  I do consider myself high value, so it's not like I need anyone in my life, but I think me and this girl have good potential of a future but it's really up to her and how she wants to handle it, I guess.  I refuse to play games and chase her and certainly don't want her to have control of the situation.

It's nice to hear your success story and how your no chase approach worked out for you and your wife.  So, I guess I will refrain from reaching out and when we start talking again, I will have this talk with her.  I appreciate your insight and everyone that's helped so far. 

[SuperDaddy]

It's nice to hear your success story and how your no chase approach worked out for you and your wife.  So, I guess I will refrain from reaching out and when we start talking again, I will have this talk with her.  I appreciate your insight and everyone that's helped so far.

I don't have a success story. It's just the distancing thing that has never happened. I think real success is only possible after years of effective treatment and a ton of motivation on their part to get better. My advice is to support her along the treatment, without getting too involved, and never bring her to move in into your place, and don't get her pregnant. Not until she fully recovers, if that ever happens.

[quantumecho77]

I don't have a success story. It's just the distancing thing that has never happened. I think real success is only possible after years of effective treatment and a ton of motivation on their part to get better. My advice is to support her along the treatment, without getting too involved, and never bring her to move in into your place, and don't get her pregnant. Not until she fully recovers, if that ever happens.

My apologies for the assumption.  Yes, I will certainly try to help and support treatment down the road if it comes to that.  And also noted on the big life changes.  For now, I just need to let her show me she's in this.