A return after 13 years for advice with my brother

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hey folks, I was staff here over a decade ago while healing from my relationship with my dBPD mother. This place was very helpful as a young adult learning to set boundaries for the first time.

I am back because my youngest brother is 23 and undiagnosed but has all the signs.

After years of severe depression, substance use disorder, stealing, rehab, suicide threats, a psych stay and a TRO, he is currently homeless. I am heartbroken and at a loss.

He has refused therapy, DBT, online CBT, any ownership or accountability or healing. He tried a little after rehab but quickly regressed.

He is deeply sensitive, has few friends because he is miserable to be around, and screams at family and friends and curses us out when angry.

He went to acting school - something our family supported him in start to finish with encouragement, attending his shows, flowers, money, intros to people in the industry or jobs. Yet he lives in a fantasy where he hopes to not audition and simply be "discovered" or get an apartment for free. When angry, he says we never supported his acting and that's why he isn't currently working.

As his big sister, I invite him to join me on drives, shopping, trips, watching a movie, basketball, etc. but he declines and hides in his room scrolling, or joins and then storms off slamming doors to express his pain. He then complains to our siblings that we exclude him.

During his recent psych stay he cursed me out again, told me to leave him alone. He now complains to the one brother he talks to that we have abandoned him.

Our mother was terribly abusive and neglectful, and I raised him from a baby to age 11 when I left for college. He both loves and resents this history with me, which I get. He often seeks validation, empathy, advice, and then resents these even when given in gentleness and as sought.

Last I heard from him was end of December when he cursed me out, and said things to try to hurt me. I told him I would not have a conversation if he continued to speak to me that way. He called the next day from the psych ward asking for help making a housing plan but blamed me for his mental state and made a suicidal threat, to which I told him I loved him but he needs to talk to the psychiatric help if he is dealing with that. He has not contacted me since.

I felt terrible not visiting him for 14 days in the psych hold, and I am devastated that even with years of support he is now homeless. But just like I have not given him money since I learned of his addictions and stealing, I can't fix this for him or force him to be accountable. He has to want it.

I am trying to wait for him to reach out and apologize now. Am I doing the right thing? When is the right time to reach back out?

All this to say, I have worked on my tools: boundaries, mindfulness, empathy, wise mind, DEARMAN, radical acceptance, and yet 14 years of therapy later I still get blindspots when it comes to my family dynamics. I want to be a good sister to him, and be caring while not enabling. I fear I have probably enabled his behavior in ways I am still blind to and need to find that right balance. Thanks for listening.

[ScarletOlive]

Hey folks, I was staff here over a decade ago while healing from my relationship with my dBPD mother. This place was very helpful as a young adult learning to set boundaries for the first time.

I am back because my youngest brother is 23 and undiagnosed but has all the signs.

After years of severe depression, substance use disorder, stealing, rehab, suicide threats, a psych stay and a TRO, he is currently homeless. I am heartbroken and at a loss.

He has refused therapy, DBT, online CBT, any ownership or accountability or healing. He tried a little after rehab but quickly regressed.

He is deeply sensitive, has few friends because he is miserable to be around, and screams at family and friends and curses us out when angry.

He went to acting school - something our family supported him in start to finish with encouragement, attending his shows, flowers, money, intros to people in the industry or jobs. Yet he lives in a fantasy where he hopes to not audition and simply be "discovered" or get an apartment for free. When angry, he says we never supported his acting and that's why he isn't currently working.

As his big sister, I invite him to join me on drives, shopping, trips, watching a movie, basketball, etc. but he declines and hides in his room scrolling, or joins and then storms off slamming doors to express his pain. He then complains to our siblings that we exclude him.

During his recent psych stay he cursed me out again, told me to leave him alone. He now complains to the one brother he talks to that we have abandoned him.

Our mother was terribly abusive and neglectful, and I raised him from a baby to age 11 when I left for college. He both loves and resents this history with me, which I get. He often seeks validation, empathy, advice, and then resents these even when given in gentleness and as sought.

Last I heard from him was end of December when he cursed me out, and said things to try to hurt me. I told him I would not have a conversation if he continued to speak to me that way. He called the next day from the psych ward asking for help making a housing plan but blamed me for his mental state and made a suicidal threat, to which I told him I loved him but he needs to talk to the psychiatric help if he is dealing with that. He has not contacted me since.

I felt terrible not visiting him for 14 days in the psych hold, and I am devastated that even with years of support he is now homeless. But just like I have not given him money since I learned of his addictions and stealing, I can't fix this for him or force him to be accountable. He has to want it.

I am trying to wait for him to reach out and apologize now. Am I doing the right thing? When is the right time to reach back out?

All this to say, I have worked on my tools: boundaries, mindfulness, empathy, wise mind, DEARMAN, radical acceptance, and yet 14 years of therapy later I still get blindspots when it comes to my family dynamics. I want to be a good sister to him, and be caring while not enabling. I fear I have probably enabled his behavior in ways I am still blind to and need to find that right balance. Thanks for listening.

[Notwendy]

It's sad to see that others in the family are affected by the dynamics and possibly BPD. My younger sibling has had significant struggles due to the emotional issues in our family situation, not BPD but still very difficult struggles. Fortunately now, employed and doing better-but not because I did anything to make that happen- I think this is something important to know- we can't "save" or change anyone. Family can make suggestions, give advice, but it's up to the person.

We are in contact because there isn't BPD or BPD behaviors.  In my own situation, my tolerance for this is pretty low. I also learned through trying that if someone is going to change their behavior- it's up to them. Since you were last on this board, my BPD mother has passed away. She didn't live near me but I was involved with her care and well being in her last years. She had some self destructive behaviors- and if I could have changed that, intervened- for her own well being (and I tried) I would have but she remained legally competent to make her own decisions and so that was up to her.

She also remained in her victim perspective. This is important to keep in mind. If she acted out with someone- and that person kept a distance as a consequence of that behavior- BPD mother would still say she was abandoned. Like your brother- even if he told you to leave and cursed you out- and you did- he still is saying to your other siblings that he was abandoned. It's as if she didn't make the connection between her behavior with someone and that person's reaction- either she truly couldn't or she felt like she couldn't or didn't want to acknowlege that.  It's hard to know.

Where I would advise you on your response to your brother is to shift your thinking from his "control" - waiting for him to apologize- to you deciding about this relationship and how much contact to have with him. In general, I think pwBPD don't usually apologize- this might come with shame and shame is a very difficult emotion for them. Or they are thinking from victim perspective and believe they didn't do anything to apologize for.

You also can decide how much contact you want to have. You can decide that you don't want to speak to someone who is cursing at you, no matter who they are. If you make contact and he begins to curse at you, you can disengage from the conversation. How to do this is up to you.

Consider not giving advice. It isn't working anyway. What I learned is that giving unsolicited advice to my mother felt invalidating to her. If she asked me for advice- it was more like emotional caretaking for her- she didn't follow it. I would reply with something more empowering to her "I don't have a good answer but your doctor, accountant, friend (whowever could advise her) would know better than I do" and let her decide to call them or not.

What made this situation different was age and her physical condition. I was her POA. If she truly needed help with a task, I could be involved.

Your brother is 23 and whatever his potential is, enabling could inhibit him from getting there. On the other hand, with his mental illness, it's hard to know what his potential is. You also can consider how much you want to be involved in caretaking a mentally ill person, the relationship (a sibling isn't an elderly parent) and even if you can make a difference, because he needs professional mental health and you aren't his provider.

Also consider his behavior towards you and adjust your expectations. Does he only contact you when he needs something like money? Or is this one way- you are the only one making contact? You can still have a relationship with him and also be aware of the dynamics and nature of his participation. This may be what he's capable of emotionally.

Right now, if he's in a psych care facility- he is where he needs to be. They will determine placement, and also are aware of his lack of housing. If he ends up homeless, this is not any fault of yours. If he is unable to hold a job- they can help him access funds like social security disability, Medicaid, if you are in the US. If he is legally incompetent, they can facilitate guardianship- it can be a family member or the state in this position. It does not have to be you unless you want to do it. Not all mental illnesses render a person legally incompetent though and it sounds like he still is legally competent which still puts him in control of his own choices.

This is a sad situation for him and for you. However, you are not obligated to be involved with this. It's your choice to decide. You can prioritize your own emotional and financial well being.

[Notwendy]

Also, I can relate to wanting to be a good sister to him. I also wanted to be a good daughter to my parents, however, I don't know if it was possible to get that reassurance from my mother. I would visit, spend the whole time doing things for her and she'd find something I did or didn't do that she was upset about. It felt demoralizing.

I had to decide the criteria for being a "good daughter" to her according to my own standards, ability, and willingness to help her, as well as how much of her behavior I could tolerate and still maintain my own emotional well being.
Believing that enabling behavior isn't acting in the other person's best interest- even if they get angry that we don't, helped to avoid doing so. Sometimes we don't do this perfectly. We are humans, we make mistakes sometimes. We do the best we can with this situation.

It's possible your brother may not feel you are a good sister. I hope you can believe this for yourself.

[Pook075]

I am trying to wait for him to reach out and apologize now. Am I doing the right thing? When is the right time to reach back out?

Hello and welcome back!

I learned a long time ago that an apology to someone else is more for you than it is for them...especially when mental illness is involved.  So my short answer is, reach out and apologize whenever you want.  Just don't expect a favorable outcome since it's not about you being forgiven.  This is simply to state how you feel and offer a genuine apology.

As far as timing goes, that's 100% up to you.  It's better to offer an apology when he's not disordered (if possible), and you should stick to your general guidelines of not accepting abuse while you apologize.  Other than that, there's no right or wrong time to reach out.

[Notwendy]

To add some context to this- yes, if the apology is on us, it benefits us to apologize.

What if it's on them to apologize? Expecting that may be unrealistic. It's understandable to want one. It's how we repair relationships if we have done something we are sorry for. That is, if the relationship is between two non disordered people.

If someone is in Victim perspective or is avoiding the extreme discomfort of shame, they may not apologize. What I experienced is that, even if BPD mother has said something hurtful, and stopped contact for a while, when she did reach out, she acted as if nothing happened. The expectation is that we also act like that too. Whether or not she had recall of what she said or did that was hurtful was not possible to know. Sometimes she did and was avoinding shame. Sometimes she was so dysregulated when she said/did it that she didn't recall. The unspoken "rule" was that we don't bring it up - ever. If we did, it would start the conflict again.

This limits the level of emotional connection in the relationship because, without this process, it feels like there's no closure, no accountability on the part of the pwBPD. This is their mental illness.

So in context of the advice- one can reach out at any time- this is true. This puts you in the position of deciding when, not him, and not waiting for him to make the first move or apologize. If you need to apologize, you can do it. If you don't- then don't make one up, we don't need to apologize for something we didn't do. However, I think the "act like nothing happened" and don't bring up what happened is still something to consider. It was the only way to do this with BPD mother.

This was not a normal way to relate to someone but it wasn't a "normal relationship" between family members. BPD affects all relationships. We maintained contact because we chose to but the frequency varied according to her circumstances. Emotonally, for me it was more low contact- as getting into emotional discussions didn't go well for either of us. You can also choose the extent and content of your contact with your brother.