First blowout argument in a long time.

[mssalty]

Had a blowout.  I “started” it by reacting with frustration.   Partner exploded back at me and we went back and forth with me trying to talk about the reason I was upset, SO trying to show me I was wrong.

Words were exchanged, with my SO getting in some highly personalized zingers they knew would hurt and some very specific things I doubt they realized would hurt as much as they did. 

It ended with me being told not to talk to them until I apologize. 

I know how this goes, because it’s the same pattern.  I apologize and no matter what the sincerity, that’s the cue for my SO to lay into me some more and rehash the argument we just had, omitting some details that make them look bad, making sure I cannot respond with anything to explain or defend, and not really ending it, but escalating it.   

And I made one shot at trying to explain how I felt. It was immediately shut down, so I stopped.   They ranted.  I only said I was sorry in response.  Didn’t react.  Didn’t raise my voice.  Didn’t show emotion. 

It was clear that a lack of reaction was something they couldn’t handle.   

The chaos seems to make them feel safer. 

I know I should not have reacted as I did in the moment, nor used that moment ti try and express my frustrations.   I knew it would go nowhere, but the safety switch that so often keeps me from reacting didn’t hold.   

It’s exhausting to try to love someone who does not want to understand you and registers almost anything as a full throated attack on their being. 

I don’t think I’ve ever had an instance where the first apology came from them.  The law of averages and everything I’ve read about marriage would seem to make it clear occasionally the other side will have SOME responsibility.   It’s exhausting when you’re in a marriage where you are the only one seen to be at fault, and the only one who cannot air their frustrations without getting a list of reasons why you’re wrong, or a list of the many ways you are worse.   

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[kells76]

Really sorry to hear about the blowup... Even though on the one hand we can "expect" this to happen when there's a pwBPD in our life, on the other hand, if things have been smooth (enough) lately, it can be so devastating -- like things will never change.

And yes, I've heard from other members here that chaos and reaction can feel "safer" (or, like "this is familiar, I can deal with this") to a pwBPD. So it's not surprising that you noticed that as well.

Can you remind me if your partner is in any kind of treatment or therapy at this time?

Do the two of you ever communicate about conflict in any other medium besides verbally (ie texting, emailing)?

It is exhausting living with someone with BPD in the family system. When and where do you get a break from it all? Work? Commuting? Hobby? Friends?

I just hear you being so tired right now.

[SuperDaddy]

Hi mssalty ,

For a person with BPD, if their partner brings up frustrations, they will find the worst possible interpretation of it, such as interpreting it all as a criticism and possible rejection. But why? The reason why they interpret things like that is because this interpretation is the one that elicits the biggest conflict (at least in their head).

They will say they want you to apologize, but unconsciously they just want you to engage in the fight. This is why they make things so frustrating for you, so that you lose your grip and explode as well.

But why on earth would someone want something so defeating and harmful for the relationship? Because they need the endorphin reward they get from the conflict, and this is of primal importance for them to regulate their brain [**]. Unfortunately, when doing so, they are so involved in the conflict that they don't even remember it will push their partner away.

But as Pook075 explained, if you love this person, then there might be another way around because:

"They just want to feel loved and supported in every interaction. They want to feel like they matter and they're seen."

That works so well because feeling loved releases endorphins and also activates many other neurocircuits in the brain. Therefore, it replaces the need for conflict. Have you ever tried to disarm your SO using this approach?

[**] see the EOS theory on BPD: https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2010-06891-012

[Pook075]

And I made one shot at trying to explain how I felt. It was immediately shut down, so I stopped.   They ranted.  I only said I was sorry in response.  Didn’t react.  Didn’t raise my voice.  Didn’t show emotion. 

We've all been there and we all knew better.  I can remember so many arguments where I'd just try to listen patiently, to wait it out so it didn't escalate, and then they said one thing that was so offensive, so ridiculous that my mouth started talking before my brain had even processed it.

That means we're human though, and there's no way to be perfect 100% of the time.  If someone is yelling at us, it's only natural to want to defend ourselves.

One thing I've learned is that the time for our personal viewpoints has to wait until the BPD is stable and thinking objectively once again.  They're so hyped up in the moment that defending ourselves comes off (to them) as saying they don't matter, which only makes everything worse.  It's literally a no-win situation unless we focus specifically on their feelings in that moment and deal with that first.

[SuperDaddy]

I think both extremes are solving the problem for them. Either feeling completely rejected, discarded, and abandoned or feeling entirely loved, supported, and important.

[Me88]

We've all been there and we all knew better.  I can remember so many arguments where I'd just try to listen patiently, to wait it out so it didn't escalate, and then they said one thing that was so offensive, so ridiculous that my mouth started talking before my brain had even processed it.

That means we're human though, and there's no way to be perfect 100% of the time.  If someone is yelling at us, it's only natural to want to defend ourselves.

One thing I've learned is that the time for our personal viewpoints has to wait until the BPD is stable and thinking objectively once again.  They're so hyped up in the moment that defending ourselves comes off (to them) as saying they don't matter, which only makes everything worse.  It's literally a no-win situation unless we focus specifically on their feelings in that moment and deal with that first.

oh God the amount of times this was my life. I was the king at staying calm and listening and reassuring. She would tell me in the beginning 'you're the most patient man in the world. Your calmness keeps me calm during arguments'...if that was her version of calm, the world is doomed.

And yup, you'll sit there forever until they say something insane. Literally retell the situation with events and words that never occurred. Then get themselves more worked up over their own made-up story.

I never figured out the best time to speak my mind. I thought we had gotten over a situation, only for it to be brought up over and over. No apology, no changed behavior could ever remedy even the smallest of situations.

[Rowdy]

oh God the amount of times this was my life. I was the king at staying calm and listening and reassuring. She would tell me in the beginning 'you're the most patient man in the world. Your calmness keeps me calm during arguments'...if that was her version of calm, the world is doomed.

And yup, you'll sit there forever until they say something insane. Literally retell the situation with events and words that never occurred. Then get themselves more worked up over their own made-up story.

I never figured out the best time to speak my mind. I thought we had gotten over a situation, only for it to be brought up over and over. No apology, no changed behavior could ever remedy even the smallest of situations.

exactly the behaviour I experienced, word for word I could have written your post, the op’s too.

Any apology from myself would be pointless, I’d just as well headbutt a brick wall repeatedly for all the good apologising for something would do.

I’ve always questioned if she has bpd since finding out about it but posts like every single one in this thread convince me more and more. I’d even started to wonder if it was actually me that has bpd but then I look at my current relationship and it is calm, drama free with not one argument in nearly a year so I can only come to the conclusion it isn’t me!

[Me88]

Yeah it it just bugs that every perceived slight is seen as you purposely attacking them or their character. Things that don't even have to do with them. We had a blowup argument because I parked my vehicle at a slight angle. 'I told you not to park like that! it's too hard to take the dogs out'........I was the one who took the dogs out, not her, and I reminded her of that. Somehow my parking like that against her will showed I don't value her or her opinion. Me reminding her I take the dogs out was me rubbing it in her face that she doesn't do enough. Uh, what? But eventually I gave in and always parked how she saw fit.

Leave a cup on the counter by the fridge....I did that on purpose apparently, to spite her because she was the one who usually did the dishes (load a dishwasher). Then you look at her nightstand and there's 4 cups....

I hated having to apologize for things that didn't happen or were perceived some way. It's like admitting guilt and then they feel vindicated for going crazy. And bring it all up in every fight. She legit had a running log of things I've done bad, screenshotted text message arguments (my replies only of course), audio and video recordings when she finally got me to snap. Luckily the videos were generally me crying hahaha

[Pook075]

Yeah it it just bugs that every perceived slight is seen as you purposely attacking them or their character. Things that don't even have to do with them. We had a blowup argument because I parked my vehicle at a slight angle. 'I told you not to park like that! it's too hard to take the dogs out'........I was the one who took the dogs out, not her, and I reminded her of that. Somehow my parking like that against her will showed I don't value her or her opinion. Me reminding her I take the dogs out was me rubbing it in her face that she doesn't do enough. Uh, what? But eventually I gave in and always parked how she saw fit.

Leave a cup on the counter by the fridge....I did that on purpose apparently, to spite her because she was the one who usually did the dishes (load a dishwasher). Then you look at her nightstand and there's 4 cups....

I hated having to apologize for things that didn't happen or were perceived some way. It's like admitting guilt and then they feel vindicated for going crazy. And bring it all up in every fight. She legit had a running log of things I've done bad, screenshotted text message arguments (my replies only of course), audio and video recordings when she finally got me to snap. Luckily the videos were generally me crying hahaha

Yeah, but it wasn't about the car, or the dogs, or the cup.  It was about mental illness and disordered thinking. 

They couldn't say how they actually felt because that would be terrifying for them.  What if they actually shared their feelings in a vulnerable way and you rejected them?  That's unthinkable for a BPD!  So instead, the cup or the car is a great way to vent off that frustration and feel just a tad better for a few minutes.  Before long, they forget about the core problem (they're mentally disordered) and the cup somehow becomes proof that the actual problem is you.

As I've said in other threads, there is a way past this through love, compassion, and patience.  It's so incredibly hard most of the time though until enough trust is built to reverse that toxic way of thinking.

[SuperDaddy]

They couldn't say how they actually felt because that would be terrifying for them.  What if they actually shared their feelings in a vulnerable way and you rejected them?  That's unthinkable for a BPD!  So instead, the cup or the car is a great way to vent off that frustration and feel just a tad better for a few minutes.  Before long, they forget about the core problem (they're mentally disordered) and the cup somehow becomes proof that the actual problem is you.

I don't think I can agree with the initial part of that explanation. When you say, "They couldn't say how they actually felt," you imply that they were feeling too vulnerable and couldn't open up because they didn't want to be judged, and then the inner tension that was built inside them exploded as something else, right?

But if that was the mechanism, it would make sense to think that with someone who they fully trust and feel comfortable in opening up to, such as their therapist, they would never act out and instead would just open up. However, the reality is that, as a rule that makes up part of how DBT was developed, each DBT therapist needs their own therapy to "heal" themselves from the accusations, the outbursts, and all of the nonsense thinking that comes from their BPD clients.

You can see a video about Jordan Peterson being a victim of this in this video: https://youtu.be/OT1LOTyFBaY?t=10373

He got his job threatened in 2016 because of a vindictive client that accused him of sexual harassment. The only evidence was that he rolled his wedding ring on his finger during the therapy session, and she misinterpreted that as some dark underlying desire. In the video, he doesn't say she had BPD, but I believe she did.

So in my understanding, the mind of the pwBPD fabricates those interpretations with an unconscious goal of creating a dynamic that will make them feel threatened. And I think a good explanation of this fabrication comes from how the "interpreter module" creates the distorted thinking, as described in the video below. That happens when there isn't enough information to explain something the person did or something they are feeling. The "interpreter module" then snaps in and fabricates a logical and "convincing" (but nonsensical) explanation. The video talks about the findings that were made when studying people who went through the split-brain surgery and how those findings invalidate the concept of "free will":
https://youtu.be/_TYuTid9a6k

This is a very interesting, funny, and entertaining video. You won't regret watching it.

[mssalty]

As it extended for hours, I realized that I never quite grasp the part where I supposedly triggered the reaction.  It’s like things have exploded and are on fire and I’m told I’m the one with the matches and I don’t remember lighting them. 

I know that’s not what gaslighting comes from, but every time I’m told I’m the one who started it, I feel like I’m not 100% to blame, but always feel like maybe I’m just a terrible person. 

The law of averages would seem to say that sometimes I’m not 100% at fault. 

[SuperDaddy]

Hey, pwBPD always have this thing of pointing fingers, but we don't have to point fingers to solve a problem, and if a couple is united as a team, then that would not even make sense. So when my wife talks about blame, I tell her it does not matter, because we aren't supposed to be in a competition.

The fact that you triggered a reaction in them doesn't make you faulty. It could be about their interpretation of your body language, your eyebrow angle. But it is their choice on how they react to that trigger.

Honestly, I feel 100% non-faulty, and I have zero guilt. I'm not stating that I'm perfect. I know a few of my shortcomings, and knowledge on BPD can always help me to improve the interaction. But I'm completely sure that 100% of my wife's outbursts are to blame on the BPD.

One reason for that is that she is my 4th long-term partner, but each individual partner had their own different complaints. I can't think of a complaint or a trigger that is shared between two different of my wives. One acted out as if I wanted to cheat on her, even though I never did in the 10+ years of the relationship. The other one wasn't too jealous of other women but was of her stepdaughters. The current one loves her stepdaughters but says she is controlled, which none of the previous ones said. In other words, it is about them, not about me.