Creating Distance, and how not to fight

[Moselle]

She is an NPD/BPD co-morbid ex-wife

I though I was effectively detached, but she is still able to trigger me into a reaction somtimes.

She is playing God at the moment by alienating my own children. After 18 months of visitation, every second weekend, the girls now say they don't want to see me any more, She has cajoled them into saying this to a judge, so we are now in a court process, her trying to prove that I should no longer see the children, and me proving they are being alienated. In the meantime they get further and further away from me.

And she knows how to hurt me the most. Through the children.

I can't win this fight against her, she is too clever, too destructive, has too many supporters. I'm desperate to defuse her fighting, so I use these phrases to try and defuse a fight by accpeting her rights, and not fight against them

"I’m sorry you feel that way"
"I have no right to control how you see me"
"I can accept your faulty perception of me"
"I' guess I have to accept that is how you feel (you’re entitled to it)"
"Your anger is not my responsibility"

What do you think of them?

[infjEpic]

"I’m sorry you feel that way"

I used this phrase a lot. I don't think it defused any rages, but from time to time, I think it prevented escalation.
It offers zero resistance to their attacks.
I would probably avoid the other phrases, as they may be interpreted as Shaming by the pwBPD.
Sometimes, nothing can prevent the eruption tho.

The best policy I found was to lay all the blame on myself - to a comical degree.

When I started agreeing with my BPDexs attacks & laying all the blame on myself in order to end the relationship, my BPDex would flip back to attempting lovebombing.


Is there anyone who can accompany you when you have to interact with her?

[SES]

I'm sorry you are going through this.  

I don't think I can offer you advice.  It sounds like you are working very hard to avoid conflict and escalation.  

For me, I have to ensure I don't get sucked back in to the vortex of chaos... .something that happens every now and then.  

Have you got a lawyer, and if so - what do they suggest?

[Grey Kitty]

I see two approaches you can take, perhaps simultaneously:

1. Legal -- sounds like it is failing you today, although it might work over the longer term, as continued evidence of alienation will eventually stack up.

For that I'd recommend posting on the legal board--better advice on how to do that there.

2. Personal interaction. You can try to improve your r/s with your ex so she doesn't want to do anything she can to hurt you, including alienating your children.

... .where are you starting on that one? How much interaction do you have with your ex? How often are the two of you civil? Do you ever have pleasant/friendly interactions with her?

Anyhow, I'd start with the tools, and here are the three I prefer to start with:

1. Don't invalidate her. As a pwBPD, she would be incredibly sensitive to the merest hint of invalidation, so really watch for this.

2. Enforce boundaries around not staying with her / communicating with her, and subjecting yourself to abusive stuff.

This pattern of directing abuse at you only causes harm, and while you cannot stop her from feeling that way, you can leave her to spew that at a wall, or at anybody else who will listen, instead of you. Trust me that it really is better!

NOTE: If she is sharing that she feels angry with you, rather than lashing out at you, that isn't what I'm talking about.

3. Validating her feelings.

You are trying to do this... .but there are two things you need to ace before you get there. First, 99% validation is tainted by 1% invalidation. So make sure you don't accidentally invalidate her, or all these efforts are lost.

Second, sincerity. When you try to validate her feelings, you need to genuinely care about her feelings. Or at least be genuinely interested in what they are. Not what you think they are, not what she said before, but what she's feeling right now.

You may not be able to find much of this sincerity with her. Be aware when you run out, and stop trying to validate at those times, and cut your losses--she's emotionally sensitive enough to notice the difference!

[Moselle]

GK

There is no communication. Other than spiteful stuff from her. She is in breach on 90 % of the parenting plan. And she had two of the three girls tell a judge they don't want to see me again

It doesn't make sense. She is a (very clever) covert Narcissist. I have only realised recently that this is the case. After years of thinking she was mostly BPD, I realise that she is mostly covert Narcissist and pulls out the BPD when it suits her to play victim.

So how do you get a Narcissist and part time BPD to do what is right?

She reads SET or validation very quickly GK. She calls It fairy talk. And I'm not sure I want to spend so much energy on her. I handed those problems back to her when we divorced.
 


 

[vortex of confusion]

Would it work better if you kept it even shorter than that?

How about something like "Ok" or "I see" or "I hear you" or "Thanks for letting me know"?

[Kelli Cornett]

I wish people would understand NPD's do 90% of the discarding and dumping that isn't really a BPD trait.

BPD tend to cheat, lie do anything to hold any attachment. 

[Nicke]

I may have missed how old your girls are, but if you keep doing the next right thing, their experience of you will eventually broaden and one day she will pay the price.  I know that is precious little reassurance right now, but it sounds like if she is in spiteful contact with you, you may be gathering evidence of her behavior.  Has there been a court-ordered psychiatric evaluation of her?

My heart goes out to you.  No matter how upset my stbxH (uBPD/NPD) becomes, I want very much for us to both have loving and positive relationships with the children.  Acting against that to spite another adult is shameful.  I am afraid right now that my husband will embark on a PA campaign whether purposefully or more as unconscious sloughing of feelings.  He has already shown a strong tendency to put make them feel responsible for his feelings, especially when he is upset or needy. 

I think the suggestion to keep the responses even shorter is a good one.  Also, if you haven't read the book "Splitting" about how to divorce B/NPD partners, it's worth it.

Nicke