When is it abuse?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have been dealing with this for so long and question when is this abuse? I want to make my marriage work and have been doing so much reading on this forum but I am question how much can someone take.  So we go through the steps to hopefully put up boundaries with our BPD spouse and we still get the verbal abuse but we learn to walk away or no take it to heart but isn’t that still verbal abuse? The reason I ask is I have been trying for years to put up boundaries but I still feel she is winning the fight because it seems one step forward, two steps back.  I still get the abuse. Also, there is no chance she will ever get help. I can’t mention it anymore because all it does is cause more abuse.

Even if I could separate myself from the words?

Thank you to anyone who reads this. I need this group.

[fedup2017th]

I have been dealing with this for so long and question when is this abuse? I want to make my marriage work and have been doing so much reading on this forum but I am question how much can someone take.  So we go through the steps to hopefully put up boundaries with our BPD spouse and we still get the verbal abuse but we learn to walk away or no take it to heart but isn’t that still verbal abuse? The reason I ask is I have been trying for years to put up boundaries but I still feel she is winning the fight because it seems one step forward, two steps back.  I still get the abuse. Also, there is no chance she will ever get help. I can’t mention it anymore because all it does is cause more abuse.

Even if I could separate myself from the words?

Thank you to anyone who reads this. I need this group.

[Cipher13]

I am not going to address if it is truly considered abuse or not. That seems to be subjective to some people (more so maybe with those who don't have to deal with this kind of environment) However something there is no disagreement... .its not healthy to have someone constantly yell and pout you down. Its not how anyone wants to live. I know  because I too am in your shoes. I have been married for 15 years and for many years I have been told I am hated, I am disrespectful, cruel, an a-hole and you get the picture. It still affects me in a deeper way but not as much reactively anymore. I use those words as any other words. Just words.

However I am not going to claim it doesn't affect us deeper emotionally. I think the only way you can feel better about yourself is it believe in what you are doing ad attempting to do. If it is a positive thing regardless if you are getting the results you are hoping for now I say keep up the fight if you want to save this. I have not been good at attempting any sort of boundaries and therefor given up. Do if you have a chance don't give up. I may still have a chance to but it will be far more difficult. Find friends and family for the emotion healing you need. They don't have to know any thing you are dealing with but just the positive interactions can be helpful.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey fedup, Of course it's verbal abuse, in my view.  The question is: what are you going to do about it?  Boundaries are a good start.  Suggest that you decline to participate in abusive conversations.  You could say something like, "I will not listen when you are speaking to me in that way."  Then leave the room if you need to.  If that doesn't work, leave the house.  The idea is to communicate to her that you will not tolerate verbal abuse.

Does this make sense?

LuckyJim

[fedup2017th]

Thank you Ciper13 and Lucky Jim for your replies.

In my research on this site, along with seeing the replies, I keep putting myself in the situation with building boundaries and think I know what she will say. Here is an example that is more than capable of happeneing.  I leave the room and say I will not tolerate her talking that way to me why she belittles me and calls me names. I then go back later before bed and she rips me more and says I have no communication skills and no wonder nobody likes me. Then I am up all night. Next day, silent treatment. Followed by maybe her mocking me again so I get up and leave the house this time. The following day, she will then leave the house saying she is going out to find a real man and father for her child (she has said this in front of our 8 year old) and I am left home crying like a baby wondering if my wife is going to leave me. The next day, I will go and say something like, please respect me. She would then say, I knew you knew you were wrong. You will never learn but lets move forward but don't expect anything from me because I am still mad at you for all the mean things you said to me (even though it was her that said mean things).

I know the above sounds silly but this is my friggin life with her! I don't know how to do the boundaries because it is all a game to her that she has to win the battles and the war. I guess I need to stop thinking this way and somehow try harder but hearing how bald, fat, ugly, annoying and a million other adjectives to describe me that are not true by someone I care for (or at least am fooling myself in to thinking I do) is really taking a toll on me. I feel broken. I used to be so confidant and now I am not.

I will read more and hope that I can implement something.

Off topic, does any other BPD's have memory loss. I feel she doesn't remember anything about our relationship while it was good. I used to write her poetry and she would love it. I had someone take my poetry and custom wedding vows and make them into songs. She had no idea what they were. She actually ended up getting mad at me and I am not allowed to play them in front of her? Back to my point, is memory loss common?

Fedup

[Lucky Jim]

Hey fedup, From what you describe, it sounds like she is manipulating you through F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt), which is the three-pronged pitchfork that a pwBPD uses to control a Non's behavior.  E.g., I'm going to find a real man and father (Fear); You know you were wrong (Guilt); You said mean things (Guilt); You owe me so don't expect anything from me (Obligation); I'm still mad at you (Fear); etc.  You get the idea.  First step is to recognize the F-O-G when it comes rolling in.

LJ

[byfaith]

I am to the point now I get up and walk out of the room. The discussion I had with my wife last night ended with her calling me a giant A$$hole so I got up and left and went to my room for the evening.

I was being told that she knows what I am thinking and knows exactly what I am because "oh my God" she said " I just had an epipheny" I said good now you are the high and mighty judge. Thats when she pulled out the giant a-hole go to name. I got up and left. her running her mouth the whole time I was walking away.

we are starting MC again tomorrow after almost 6 months. I hope there is a better result this time. I let her know today, in a kind way, that I will be more open and honest about things this time around.

[peacemountain]

Hi Fedup. So sorry that you're in the middle of all this crap. I know, the constant belittlement, accusations, and jabs slowly but surely tear you down until you think there's nothing left. I've been there and come to the edge of what I would call a breaking point. Here are a few things that gave me strength to keep going. I hope they will help you as well!

1. I don't deserve to be stabbed with words, regardless of what I've done.
2. Our words have the power to build each other up or tear each other down. I commit to use words that build up and insist on the same treatment for myself (or leave the room, house, turn off the phone, etc if that's not possible).
3. I don't have to justify or defend my actions, thoughts or words. (take a look at JADE https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0)
4. I am an amazing person. I am intelligent, kind, thoughtful, beautiful. People love spending time with me and I am important and valuable! So are you Fedup! Spend time building yourself back up and spending time with people that affirm you. With all the tearing down, you need it. For each hurtful word said against you, speak over yourself of the TRUTH of who you are. Release the bad, embrace the good.

The following day, she will then leave the house saying she is going out to find a real man and father for her child (she has said this in front of our 8 year old) and I am left home crying like a baby wondering if my wife is going to leave me.

To me, it sounds like she knows how far to push you before she breaks you. My H will do the same thing. It's an extinction burst and will pretty much always happen when you begin enforcing boundaries. The point is, you have to hold the boundary firm no matter WHAT (day/night, no matter how crazy it gets). If you let it down, you're teaching her that if she pushes hard enough, there is really no boundary. ( https://bpdfamily.org/2010/10/partner-have-borderline-personality.html)

When I began enforcing the boundary of leaving the room when I'm being emotionally/verbally abused, then he started escalating to chasing me around the house and yelling. So then I had to leave the house. Then he started abusing me via text. So I told him that I would be turning off my phone until things calmed down. Then the threats of leaving, divorce, etc started rolling in. So I turned off my phone. When I got home, he was still speaking about leaving. And so I said, well that's not what I would like. I do love you very much and my wish is for us to live life together and raise our family together. I can understand though if this is something that you need to do. He got very quiet and deflated. I had called his bluff. I told him that I was going to bed and I would be willing to discuss a separation in the morning after we had given it a little thought. By morning he was apologizing.

My point is, things are going to crazy when you start implementing boundaries. If you're ready for it, and you know what to expect, it's a little easier to not get stressed out by it and see it for what it is. Ask yourself this - what does your wife think your "breaking point" is? How will she push to get her way? For many of us our SO will push to the point of threatening to leave. And then we cave. Others on this board have said that their SO go as far as hiring an attorney! While many of us would say that our pwBPD is all over the map emotionally, one thing we can predict is how the cycle will play out. We've ridden the roller coaster before. Give some of your history a thought and outline your prediction of the steps and escalation your wife will take, each time you CONSISTENTLY and calmly remove yourself from abusive behavior. Then you'll be ready for whatever she throws at you!

You ARE worth being treated with respect. Fight for yourself since no one else will! I'm rooting for you! Keep us updated on how things go.

[fedup2017th]

Thank you to everyone for your responses! It really helps reading the replies! Peacemountain, I really appriciate what you said, along with the examples. I really was so confidant! I know I am not crazy but sometimes I need to keep telling myself this. the examples also hit home. It is depressing but relieving that others go through the same thing I do.

I have to continue with boundaries but improve 100% on them. i also can't be so afraid she is going to leave me and not play her game.

I have to continue to work on me. I wrote a book about parenting and divorce and she refused to proof read it for me. the only things she said was I wasn't a good parent so it is a dumb book. I am going to have someone else proof read it and get it published (or try). I wrote so many songs that I have had others sing (who said I should do something more with them). I am going to see what I can do to get them out there! FYI, she didn't even want to listen to the cd that I made her for our ten year anniversary. i realize after that she didn't remember any of the words I wrote her or said to her in the past so this album meant nothing to her. I put my heart and soul into it so I will do what I can to have someone do something with it. FYI, when I tried to talk to her about how much it hurts me that she doesn't want to listen to my album, she called me names "drama queen, etc) and then ended it by saying, why don't you write a song about it! Wow, that is so wrong and hurt me so much. I wrote it because that is the last time I will let that stop me from improving myself.

I will continue to improve me. I see every-time I try too, she puts me down and I makes me feel dumb.

I am going to improve myself but trying to create strong boundaries. If this doesn't work, i have to give myself the ok to leave.

Fedup.

[Sluggo]

When I began enforcing the boundary of leaving the room when I'm being emotionally/verbally abused, then he started escalating to chasing me around the house and yelling. So then I had to leave the house. Then he started abusing me via text. So I told him that I would be turning off my phone until things calmed down. Then the threats of leaving, divorce, etc started rolling in. So I turned off my phone. When I got home, he was still speaking about leaving. And so I said, well that's not what I would like. I do love you very much and my wish is for us to live life together and raise our family together. I can understand though if this is something that you need to do. He got very quiet and deflated. I had called his bluff. I told him that I was going to bed and I would be willing to discuss a separation in the morning after we had given it a little thought. By morning he was apologizing.

Fedup,

This was our pattern to a T except the ending part.  I would take the words to personally and my wife would continue either silent treatment or rage.  I became so depressed I had to leave.  I feel better now but it has come at a cost.