BPD wife escalating, getting physical

[Zosima]

I feel like a line was crossed this weekend. My wife escalated one of her usual spirals in public the other day to the point that she was following me down the street pulling on my clothes and arm, shouting at me in tears, begging me to talk to her. I had been calm and validating, but held the boundary in refusing to get into tense, emotional relationship topics after lunch. We don't communicate effectively when she gets upset. I validated her feelings and gave her the choice to pause, use tools and we could continue our day together, or if she kept persisting in pushing me for communication and reassurance I would have to step away to take some space and keep things stable. She persisted, so I tried to walk away. I told her, "I'm sorry you're feeling upset. I'm going to take a walk to keep things stable on my end. I'll be back in a little while." She followed me, pulling on me. When I went back to the car she wouldn't let me close the door, and she wouldn't get in the car. I called a crisis support line hoping she would talk to them. She refused so I explained the situation to them, that my wife was feeling very dysregulated and that she was physically preventing me from taking space from the situation. She tried to grab my phone from me to hang it up. Eventually I was able to walk away and came back to get my car later

The rest of the weekend was just apology followed by another spiral, around and around. She did the same thing on the street in front her her work as I was dropping her off. I had to walk away and wait for +30min for her to stop calling and texting me and go into work before I could collect my car and move on. She has pulled on my clothes as I tried to leave the apartment before, but not for so long and not out in public. And the way she tried to make me sound like the bad guy as she shouted into the phone while I talked with crisis support really freaked me out. It's one of the few times I've heard her get that angry and really try to twist the narrative to make me the bad guy. I've never feared she might get vindictive, but now I'm genuinely worried about the future. I am scared to be around her because it's hard to accept the consequences of what could happen if she tries to physically stop me again. I don't want to be provoked into doing something in response, and I don't want her to get in any legal trouble, or lie about things and have me get into legal trouble. It just feels like a line has been crossed and the stakes feel too high to keep doing this. Any advice?

[PeteWitsend]

It sounds like "extinction burst" behavior on her part: escalating the emotional level to possibly include violence in order to get you to comply with what she wants. 

You could be at a bit of a fork in the road in your relationship, as in you whether you decide to separate from her (at least until she calms down and agrees to stop this behavior), or you keep riding the emotional roller coaster with her. 

Maybe you can stick it out until the "extinction burst" burns itself out (though it might get intolerably worse before it gets better).  It can get really ugly though, so yeah, take precautions to protect yourself from any violence, or false allegations, or other insanity, if you decide to stay put. 

In my own situation, as I withdrew and refused to engage in the fighting after a certain point, BPDxw started escalating the nastiness, and it was so off-putting to me that it allowed me to just leave & divorce without any second thought. 

[Under The Bridge]

but now I'm genuinely worried about the future. I am scared to be around her because it's hard to accept the consequences of what could happen if she tries to physically stop me again. I don't want to be provoked into doing something in response, and I don't want her to get in any legal trouble, or lie about things and have me get into legal trouble. It just feels like a line has been crossed and the stakes feel too high to keep doing this.

I can empathise totally as it was exactly my situation. After 4 years of her BPD behaviour which consisted mainly of her moods and constantly breaking up  - I suppose we could call this 'standard BPD' and was hard enough to cope with, she suddenly seemed to go up the scale and now seemed on the verge of possible violence. Add to that the jet-black eye pupils of one who is totally removed from reality and it became quite scary.

This made me really re-think the relationship as moods are one thing but violence is a totally different ball game, especially as BPD are so good at playing the victim and it would be so easy for us to end up the villain.

I think then I knew I'd reached the end of the relationship; she wouldn't change nor ever accept professional help and all the signs were of her actually getting worse so I'd have to either endure this or finally end it and I chose the latter, hard though it was.

It all depends on how much you're willing to take and we all have different breaking points.

Best wishes

[Me88]

Add to that the jet-black eye pupils of one who is totally removed from reality and it became quite scary.

This made me really re-think the relationship as moods are one thing but violence is a totally different ball game, especially as BPD are so good at playing the victim and it would be so easy for us to end up the villain.

I think then I knew I'd reached the end of the relationship; she wouldn't change nor ever accept professional help and all the signs were of her actually getting worse so I'd have to either endure this or finally end it and I chose the latter, hard though it was.

It all depends on how much you're willing to take and we all have different breaking points.

Best wishes

ridiculous to me how we all live the same reality. I come here from time to time only to see people post about my last relationship (which is theirs).

[ForeverDad]

It sounds like "extinction burst" behavior on her part: escalating the emotional level to possibly include violence in order to get you to comply with what she wants.

You could be at a bit of a fork in the road in your relationship, as in you whether you decide to separate from her (at least until she calms down and agrees to stop this behavior), or you keep riding the emotional roller coaster with her.

Maybe you can stick it out until the "extinction burst" burns itself out (though it might get intolerably worse before it gets better).  It can get really ugly though, so yeah, take precautions to protect yourself from any violence, or false allegations, or other insanity, if you decide to stay put.

In my own situation, as I withdrew and refused to engage in the fighting after a certain point, BPDxw started escalating the nastiness, and it was so off-putting to me that it allowed me to just leave & divorce without any second thought.

I tried to quote just a portion of the above quote but everything there applied in my situation too.

Yours is a relatively short marriage, just a few years, no children.  You tried.  You really have tried but it is a case of irresistible force versus a brick wall of necessary boundaries.  It sounds like there has been no substantial improvement - rather, conflict has grown worse - despite her getting some level of therapy.

In my case, I had been married 15 years and had a preschooler when I saw no alternative but to separate, which morphed into a divorce.  I had fooled myself into thinking that if we had a child she would be happy, but it just made things so much worse and the custody issues made everything vastly more complicated.

Are you still trying to fix the marriage or have you concluded that, in a practical reality check, it is hopeless to keep trying?

[ForeverDad]

My main concern is for her safety (ie. potential self-harm, losing control) and the reaction itself. The last spiral was loud and totally out of control. It was excruciating for me and awful for my neighbors, I'm sure. It's complicated because she's isolated here in this country... I worry I'm going to leave and essentially kick her over an edge and she's just going to free fall with no support or ability to self-regulate... The main concern is the immediate reaction and what kind of support I can line up for her to get through the initial shock, and how to protect myself.

In this thread you added a new dimension: BPD wife escalating, getting physical

Thus I believe your relationship is worsening.  I was married for 15 years before separating.  The discord was minimal at first, she had come from a home with child abuse.  In the early years I had felt I'd saved her but the final years saw her getting more and more distressed, agitated, critical and disrespectful.  She refused help and when I called the police she fully transformed into oppositional and obstructive.  I was unprepared, didn't even have a lawyer.

What do I consider the biggest factor that crashed the marriage?  If I had to choose, I'd say it was the disrespect and disparagement.  I realized there was no future without a trusting spouse.

[zachira]

You must protect yourself against a false domestic violence charge. The way it works in many jurisdictions is that the police are required to arrest one of the two partners when it appears that there is domestic violence. If the woman does not have a lethal weapon, then the man is usually arrested because he is considered to be a lethal weapon because of his physical strength. Do document any incident in which you are attacked by your wife whether just verbal or physical And find out how to best protect yourself from a false domestic violence charge.

Also you are not alone, in that many men who are abused by a partner can end up hitting a woman after years of being verbally and/or physically abused by her. Address these concerns so it does not happen to you.

[PeteWitsend]

I can empathise totally as it was exactly my situation. After 4 years of her BPD behaviour which consisted mainly of her moods and constantly breaking up  - I suppose we could call this 'standard BPD' and was hard enough to cope with, she suddenly seemed to go up the scale and now seemed on the verge of possible violence. Add to that the jet-black eye pupils of one who is totally removed from reality and it became quite scary.

...

I think when they escalate the emotional charge of the situation (up to, or including violence), and they get their way, this shows them that screaming/fighting/threatening violence "works," and then gets used more frequently after that. 

I also think of a behavioral theory I read that anger and rage were addictive, in that the person using them gets almost "high" on them; they feel a sense of power and control they normally don't, and so they go to them more often after that.

In my own situation, the screaming and anger was always there as a tool, as well as door slamming or throwing things, although she never crossed the line to violence.  I don't know what was going on in her head. 

I do know that later in our relationship, we went through an abortive near-divorce where we both saw attorneys, but she begged me to reconsider and I did.  After that, threats of divorce became more common from her, as I think she felt secure I would never actually leave her, and "If you don't like it, divorce me" became her way of basically saying "shut up, I don't care, I'm not going to change, and I'm going to behave however I want."

But then I actually did divorce her after another time she told me to, so, I guess that didn't go the way she hoped...

[CC43]

Hi there,

Though distressing and scary, I think that this sort of escalation is typical with untreated BPD.  When the pwBPD in my life escalated with threats of violence, lashed out physically, talked of suicide and made suicide attempts, it felt like she was "going nuclear."  In other words, when she was disappointed or didn't get what she wanted, she responded with increasingly dangerous behavior.  And in her bizarro world, the dangerous behavior tended to get her what she wanted--she'd be relieved of responsibilities (e.g. school, work, helping around the house), and she'd get money or concessions (e.g. cash/free housing/insurance/car/"rescue").  That's because everyone was walking on eggshells and giving into her demands, in the name of keeping her stable and alive.

Alas, with nuclear war, nobody wins in the long run, and it feels like living with an emotional terrorist.  Do you know what they say about terrorists?  There's no negotiating with terrorists.  I think in BPD world, that might mean you don't engage in discussions when she's dysregulated, because she's not listening anyway--her brain has been hijacked by emotions, and she can't think logically.  In addition, it means you don't reward bad behavior--you have to stick to boundaries, every time.  A boundary might be, if she is threatening you physically, you call for help, every time.  If she talks of suicide (or actually makes an attempt), you call 911 or take her to the hospital.  She won't like it, and she might have to learn the hard way.  But actually, by getting help, you're validating her, because her actions are a desperate cry for help.  In a calmer moment you might say that you love her, and so if you see her in distress you're going to call for help.

[Under The Bridge]

But then I actually did divorce her after another time she told me to, so, I guess that didn't go the way she hoped...

At her final extinction burst she said something she'd never said before which was 'I'm never coming back into this bar and don't ever come looking for me again''. As I'd already decided we were done, I took her at her word and never looked for her again.

.. a few weeks later a friend said she'd come back into the bar looking for me, as she always did But I was now long gone and free from the game-playing.. and what a relief it was!

[PeteWitsend]

At her final extinction burst she said something she'd never said before which was 'I'm never coming back into this bar and don't ever come looking for me again''. As I'd already decided we were done, I took her at her word and never looked for her again.

.. a few weeks later a friend said she'd come back into the bar looking for me, as she always did But I was now long gone and free from the game-playing.. and what a relief it was!

We tend to give them too much power by knuckling under to "keep the peace" or walking on eggshells around them, but it's revealing when you get these insights into their worldview and realize how delusional they are, and how they believe their own B.S.

I had an unpleasant interaction with my ex recently because she skipped some of my D's sports practices and didn't respond to some comments from the coach.  I texted her asking if she was going to take her to her games this weekend, and she responded with this rant about how "everyone" was mad at me, and last Thursday the coach talked to me about some forms that needed to be signed (not true at all; I didn't even speak to him that day). 

I just wondered what the hell was going through her head... does she think she's fooling me?  Like I wouldn't remember something like that?  Just pathetic how incapable they are of taking any accountability.  In her mind, it doesn't matter if our daughter's things are taken care of, as long as she doesn't get blamed for anything. 

It's nice to not have to respond.  I reached out to the coach to confirm whether we needed to do or sign anything, and got a very different story than what BPDxw was telling me...

[ForeverDad]

You must protect yourself against a false domestic violence charge. The way it works in many jurisdictions is that the police are required to arrest one of the two partners when it appears that there is domestic violence. If the woman does not have a lethal weapon, then the man is usually arrested because he is considered to be a lethal weapon because of his physical strength. Do document any incident in which you are attacked by your wife whether just verbal or physical And find out how to best protect yourself from a false domestic violence charge.

Also you are not alone, in that many men who are abused by a partner can end up hitting a woman after years of being verbally and/or physically abused by her. Address these concerns so it does not happen to you.

I had only partially "addressed my concerns".  I had not consulted a single lawyer or solicitor.  I did try to record when a ragefest was starting.  But when I did call the police for the first time, two vehicles arrived and they spent more time interviewing her.  Then one officer asked me to hand our preschooler, quietly sniffling in my arms, over to his mother and "step away".  He shrieked and clung tighter to me.  There was a long pause as the officer looked at me, then he said "work it out" and both left.

Later my then-spouse smirked as she told me she was given a DV pamphlet and kept disparaging and belittling me and my manhood.

What about my recording?  This was before the days of smart phones and my digital recorder's speaker didn't work.  Once I downloaded it, an officer came and made a report.  She was charged with Threat of DV and that started our separation.  After a few months of court delays, the judge ruled that since no one testified she had a weapon in her hands, local case law (where a drunken man was not found guilty for making threats without weapons) enabled the judge to declare her Not Guilty and dismissed the case.

Smart me, no going back for me.  My divorce lawyer, a former policeman, was surprised I wasn't carted off, if not also arrested.  He said policy is to separate the couple when responding to domestic disputes and it's always the man who is carted off.  Looking back, my preschooler's response saved me that day.

Do not ignore the rising level of discord and violence.  Be aware.  Beware.  Be prepared for nearly anything as best you can.